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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    >implying spearow sucks

    bw1 pidove =/= bw2 pidove, getting stab return very early helps pidove's case a lot because he actually gets something decent to use now (and can substitute with frustration for a while).

    genesect and the therian legends would probably have like their own tier if they were even tiered rofl

    is b2 petilil really that different than w2 petilil to warrant a tier diff? as far as im seeing it it's just a specially attacking grass type that hits hard. it's amazing, yes, but i'm really on the fence on whether it should be worth a tier diff.

    doesn't low kick like 2hko patrats or something? elekid's going to be outrunning almost everything earlygame anyway, so getting 2hko'd isn't a bad deal for him if he can 2hko back.
  2. Tomy

    Tomy

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    I completely agree with Pidove - high tier. Early STAB Return/Frustration is great. It has a limited movepool - it's a fact - but I don't see how 103 ATK with strong STABs are an issue. As long as you don't use it vs Steel and Rock types, it works very well. I've used it on my latest game and it worked just fine.
  3. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    I wish the current GSC tier list wasn't implying this =(

    Oh right, a "tier list player" (I don't know what you even tried to convey there) will just emerge with a L74 six-mon team by Iris. Silly me.

    Well, somebody well-versed in speedrunning BW1 can switch to soloing the game with Archen or Sawk instead and then compare the times. I don't see proof of sticking with a starter being better for speedrunning, and even if such existed, I don't see how it would be relevant to this discussion.

    Also, I don't think anybody here thinks Yellow's Nidoking is in a tier of his own. He's just one of the many Top Tier mons and most would say he's not quite as good as RB Squirtle, Abra or Dugtrio.

    Read the tier discussions. This is not a tier list for speedrunning, nor do we pump Pokemon up with X items on every occasion (anyone can benefit greatly from X items and setup against all odds) to sweep where a good team can efficiently dispose of the Pokemon. We do not reset in order to win or hope for luck to grace us to win where a poor type matchup is present (against Marlon, the speedrun you presented to us so terribly uncritically had the soloing Excadrill avoid being hit by Scald by both Carracosta and Wailord, which one would not rely on in any decent run and just use another Pokemon). We most certainly do not battle Iris at level 74 (this is a hugely inflated number even for Challenge Mode).

    Perhaps follow your own advice and watch the speedrun again?

    I understand you come here expecting everyone is wrong and has gained nothing from the last few years' tier discussions and their influence on efficient in-game playing, which is not entirely surprising coming from an 'expert FE debater', but take a quick look around and you'll see why those claims just don't hold water. I'm sure it won't take too much out of your precious time to know what we're dealing with here.
  4. SimicCombine

    SimicCombine

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    You can use the repel trick and a level 21 (or 22 can't remember) Pokemon to guarantee an Eevee encounter in the dark green grass, so availability shouldn't be too much of a problem. The same applies for B2 Heracross.
  5. Its_A_Random

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    Level 18 in light, Level 19 in the dark, to be precise (You can be the exact level). Eevee will always be the highest levelled Pokémon you get in that grass (so it is kinda guaranteed), true, but in the case of Heracross, this does not guarantee an encounter with it — In Lostlorn Forest, It can be as high as Level 24 in the regular grass, matched by Cottonee, Swadloon, & Roselia, & the same Pokémon match its best Level (26) in the Dark Grass as well. Route 12 is no better as well, since its highest level (38 & 42 respectively) is matched by Swadloon & Tranquill in both cases.

    Also, echoing the sentiments that a Pokémon's speed-run ability should not be considered for a Pokémon's tiering. The list is supposed to be a tier list as to how good & efficient a Pokémon can be when contributing to an in-game team, not how fast a Pokémon can solo the entire game by itself. :|

    EDIT: Reserving Timburr (With Trade) while I am here. I will prolly also give a little opinion on where it should be tiered, probably thinking High/Mid, given that it is Mid without trade.

    EDIT:
    [​IMG]
    Name: Timburr (With Trade)
    Availability: Early (Relic Passage, 20%)
    Stats: On one hand, you have an incredible Base 140 Attack, with impressive physical bulk to boot. On the other hand, it is very slow, average special bulk, and terrible Sp. Attack.
    Typing: Fighting-type allows it to hit a lot of Pokémon Super Effectively, and gives it a few resistances, but leaves it weak to Psychic-, and Flying-types, both of which are common in B2W2.
    Movepool: Below Average. You do not get a strong, reliable STAB until Hammer Arm at Level 45. On the other hand, it gets Bulk Up and Rock Slide as useful Level-up moves, as well as Bulldoze, Dig, and Payback from TM's. Thunderpunch and Ice Punch stand out from its Tutor movepool.
    Major Battles: It does well against Clay and Grimsley, but other than that, it is pretty unspectacular. Keep it away from Skyla and Caitilin, however.
    Additional Comments: Both abilities can help you out — Guts helps it benefit from status and handle Marlon easier, while Sheer Force helps improve its coverage moves. Basically, it may be able to hit like a truck, but it does not do a very good job at it.

    After having a convo on IRC, we agreed that that Timburr with trade should go in the Mid Tier. As I mentioned, it can hit like a truck, but it is not that great at doing it, because it does not get a strong STAB, it is really slow—though it allows it to use Payback effectively—and it is not that spectacular in the major battles.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  6. Celever

    Celever

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    I'd like to reserve Elgyem, Nosepass and Banette given that I am using them in a run right now.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  7. IOS

    IOS

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    This entire post was unnecessarily hostile.

    A tier list player is a hypothetical person playing through the game under the boundaries set by the tier list.

    Six Pokemon? Where is this defined? Personally I find raising six Pokemon to be tedious. I think three would be the ideal sweet spot. It's a fine balance between the tedium of equally raising a full team and the centralization problem that would be caused if solo runs were assumed.

    The level 74 comment is lazy. I already demonstrated that Drilbur was appropriately leveled throughout the majority of the game and addressed that only his Elite 4 performance may need to be more closely examined. However, as I said earlier, a Level 50 Excadrill was used in a 0 Exp Challenge Mode run during the Elite 4. I imagine he'll still be quite dominant.


    I actually don't really care to discuss this point further. It was one of my weaker arguments so I will concede. I will instead focus on how Drilbur's dominant performance warrants a tier gap. The speedrun will still be cited, as Drilbur is appropriately leveled for the majority of the game and it makes for a nice reference point.

    Again, why the hostility?

    As I mentioned earlier, the speedrun makes for a nice reference point as it is as close to an objective recorded efficiency run as we have. If there are any other recorded runs out there that avoid grinding and time wasting then post them. That would help immensely with the discussion actually. At this point we have video evidence of Drilbur dominating pretty much everything thrown at him at a reasonable level (endgame aside). That's pretty strong evidence in my opinion.

    Why would we avoid X-items? They're very useful and only benefit Pokemon who can survive while being powered up. That's leas Pokemon then you might think. Also, they're not even used excessively. I think...2-3 fights outside of the Elite 4? I haven't double checked so don't quote me on that.

    This is a single segment speedrun. Luck is minimized as much as possible because mistakes force the runner to immediately reset. There is no saving. No retrying. Screw up and you're done. This serves to increase the objectivity of the run for our purposes.

    Marlon's AI works like that. Carracosta will always use Shell Smash first. Wailord will Bounce first if he can't kill with Scald. He's an incredibly easy gym leader.

    I've caught up on this thread. It seems like discussion has nearly stagnated. I'm trying to rejuvenate that discussion. You not liking that isn't my problem.

    I'll avoid the ad hominem. Irrelevant to the discussion.
  8. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    The thing is, Drilbur is already Top Tier. We aren't going to make a Drilbur only tier when he is already one of the best picks in the game. I don't actually find Drilbur that good, I hated it when I trained one in BW1. I don't see a huge difference between the two games in terms of running.

    Imo, if any mon right now should be dropped a tier is N's Zorua... Even with the boosted XP it's movepool is literally ASS until you get Flamethrower/Nasty Plot combo just before the Elite 4. Faint Attack is its BEST MOVE until it gets is Signature move... Yes Base 60. Dark Pulse is available for TEN blue shards in Lentimas Town... If you can be bothered holding onto Zorua that long.
    TM13IceBeam likes this.
  9. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    That is true, but I managed to defeat Caitlin using only Zoroark and taking no damage, and the same method would work with any psychic type. Due to how the AI works, if you make your Zoroark look like a pokemon weak to psychic, Caitlin will only use psychic-type or status moveson your Zoroark, even though psychic-type moves have no effect and status moves just delay her inevitable loss.

    That would be enough to cancel out that downside imho. Furthermore, if you don't want Dark Pulse, you can get Shadow Ball after hanging on to Zorua for only 2 gyms. You could also give it the better move in Snarl to replace Faint Attack as the STAB move. Sure Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, and Night Daze come late, and Dark Pulse is hard to get, but Zoroark can beat most Psychic-types easily, even without taking damage if you put a psychic-weak Pokemon in the back of your team, and it does get a better move than Faint Attack through TM95 Snarl (which you should have already gotten before Driftveil City), which uses its slightly better offensive stat to hit harder and will lower the Special Attack of all adjacent foes by 1 stage. That, combined with its great IVs, access to a good coverage move in Hidden Power (always HP Fight) if you are willing to grind for 18BP (first or second line of Multi, Single, or Double Train will only take you 6 times, going all the way through only requires once through and 2 more BP) and a good STAB in Snarl right from when you get it, overall usefulness, and ability to solo Caitlin without taking any damage should be enough to put it in high tier, maybe even top tier.
  10. IOS

    IOS

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    As we've seen with Pidove, how a Pokemon performed in BW1 is not an accurate measure of their performance in BW2.

    I'm not completely discounting the possibility of other Pokemon joining Drilbur in a higher tier, but I need to see good evidence first. As of now, even Pokemon like Daramaku are significantly less useful/versatile than Drilbur.
  11. Celever

    Celever

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    Drilbur is not worth a new tier. He just isn't. I don't need to give a lot of reasoning since making a tier for ONE pokemon is ludicrous.
    cant say likes this.
  12. IOS

    IOS

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    The purpose of a tier is to denote a noticeable gap. In this case, the measure we're using could be summed up as "a Pokemon's overall usefulness when used by a player completing the game relatively quickly". So any noticeable gaps in this measure should be reflected by a tier gap.

    Magnemite tier was discussed in the list's infancy. I'm not sure why the Drilbur suggestion is getting so much blind hate.

    Why not argue that there isn't a noticeable gap between Drilbur and the other Pokemon currently in Top? That would be more productive.
  13. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    There's none besides what you decided to find, way to play the victim. I mirrored your attitude in my response to make a point and I'm surprised you managed to miss it.

    It's an unwritten rule (sometimes quite explicitly written down however) that we train a full team because it is fun and that we pretend X items cannot assist us because they make very different Pokemon too similar (i.e. X item spam, then sweep). This is because we seem to be in agreement that it makes the game fun, as opposed to rigid speedrunning with a starter (for which no tier list needs to exist, though certainly you can speedrun the game with most mons with varying success, but this is not what we're trying to deduce).

    His pre-E4 gym performance is far from perfect too. I would barely consider using Excadrill against Clay for example, perhaps only to finish off something others failed to KO for whatever reason. His Excadrill is most likely outspeeding yours and OHKOing. It is also very likely that your Drilbur is still a Drillbur by that point of the game.

    If we look at the other gyms... He exists for Burgh but is of no help. Against Elesa, he suffers strong damage from Emolga's Aerial Ace and lacks STAB for Rock Tomb. Setting up is made difficult due to how much damage you intake. This more or less applies to all grounds, of which you can have a few by this point, but somebody like Sandslash (early evo!) can actually tank physical hits. Drilbur cannot, and while Excadrill's typing is one of the reason he's up there in Top, we're waiting for the evolution still.

    Skyla is "kind of" a good matchup because you can setup on that stupid lead of her. However, good luck outspeeding Swanna (who only has Bubblebeam on Normal Mode though).

    Drayden is so-so. His lead runs Revenge and can always force-switch you if you try to set up. Flygon could outspeed you and attack with Earth Power, but when your other mons have done the job with these two, Excadrill has a very good matchup against Haxorus who is tough.

    Marlon is a bad matchup. I've done quite a few resets in this game in challenge settings to have a good idea of the AI and while it's true that the AI will go for the KO when there's an opportunity, it is still likely to go for the damage that doesn't KO. It doesn't act the same way as you suggest and you should be prepared for things to go in ways you do not predict (from prior experience). Excadrill is not taking two Scalds, and if he takes one, the second one is guaranteed to come your way because it will KO.

    I'm familiar with this; however, 0 exp runs are artificial and only have so much relevance to our discussion. Excadrills have good learnsets and are caught at high levels during mid-endgame, and have other positive qualities that nobody is putting to doubt. We all agree that Excadrill belongs in Top, remember, that should account for something.

    A 0 exp run sees a very episodic appearance of Magnemite, Darumaka and Braviary, and I believe none of Minccino, but if these Pokemon can be caught and receive experience when fighting, then their absence longterm in an artificial challenge cannot be used against them. If Darmanitans and Magnetons were common in the wild, you can bet they would appear in battles and tear things to pieces much like Excadrill does.

    Also, Excadrill's 0 exp domination in the E4 is comparable to Sawk's or Gliscor's (and those are nowhere near Top because of availability and the existence of levelling up) and is reliant on setting up. Having Swords Dance is a boon for Excadrill, but neeeding X items to set up on something or continue a sweep is not, and a full team should have options to beat a tough trainer without resorting to setup tactics.

    I like this idea, and I'm really looking forward to it. This is exactly what you want to prove - that Drilbur is superior to the rest to a sufficient extent to be a tier above them.

    Fair enough but when something goes wrong in a run that isn't a speedrun (which happens more often when you fight more battles, naturally), there are all sorts of way how you could resolve the problem that are beyond the rigid limits of such a playstyle as speedrunning, and since there's a myriad of ways how you could build a team and make choices, it's pointless to even list them (there are just too many after gym 2 or so when team building options grow very wide).

    The discussion died out because the person running the tier list constantly says "hush" every time somebody posts something that isn't an entry, which is a sad state of affairs. I'm quite happy that the topic is much less boring than before (a discussion is rare to see) as well as seeing you personally with that attempt to argue Drilbur up into his own tier. Sorry to hear you interpreted the opposite.

    It must suck being a martyr for reason, eh IOS?

    I don't think I've ever seen a tier list here that puts a specific Pokemon above the rest a la Marcus or Seth. In fact, the recent BW1 article has no Top tier at all but instead a lengthy High tier which includes folks from Darumaka to things like tradeless Timburr, Tympole and Throh. I'm personally not so worked up about that and think that if Drilbur is proved to be above the other residents of Top tier then we should accept this. The tier list host's verdict may not reflect this however (iirc we still cannot talk about trades here for some reason). You seem to be on to something, and I think this has a lot to do with what you refer to as my "hostility" (this humours me) so I think I've done my part well - the ball is yours again now.
  14. IOS

    IOS

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    Thanks for the reply Lucchini. I'm out now so I can't reply fully for now but it seems I wasn't fully aware that I was coming across as hostile myself. It always is a challenge to interpret tone on the Internet. Looking forward to addressing your points in the future.
  15. Celever

    Celever

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    Before you reply I would just like to dumb it down for you.

    Drilbur, like every other Pokemon in the Top tier is an absolutely fantastic Pokemon to use. He has great match-ups against lots of important trainers and has a great movepool. However Drilbur has some flaws about using him that cannot be ignored, and those flaws mean he is just as good as Pokemon such as Magnemite and Darumaka. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Drilbur is a bad Pokemon, I am saying that he is not perfect.
  16. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Yes, but Drilbur is found in a worse location compared to BW1, and has roughly the same sort of usage. Pidove gains early Return (which massively helps it early game). I don't know, maybe the Drilbur I had was just crap compared to other Drilbur :p

    I kinda forgot about Purrloin :p TY to @Its_A_Random for reminding me xD

    [​IMG]
    Name: Purrloin
    Availability: Immediate (Route 20, 15% Chance)
    Stats: Slightly better than Skitty... Which isn't saying a lot. Liepard gets usable base 88 offences and good speed. Bulk is no where to be seen.
    Typing: Dark. It has solid matchups but with such poor defensive stats it doesn't work well.
    Movepool: Terrible. Your best STAB move until Lv 31 (Where you get the equally poor Assurance) is Pursuit. Return could help it out early game with its average Attack. In terms of overall movepool, the most powerful move it learns via level up is Sucker Punch which is only 10 more power than Night Slash.
    Major Battles: While it comes early, and with an OK Return it can damage Roxie, it loses horribly in Burghs Gym. It's defenses aren't going to be good enough for the majority of Gym matches. You can always abuse it vs Caitlin at the E4 with a Hone Claws set.
    Additional Comments: Probably better of using it to aggravate people competitively... Prankster can be most annoying.
  17. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Yo guys. I just wanted to let you know that I've just updated the index post (#840) with reservations and all that. I've also begun adding all these new entries to the OP, so all of them should be in it soon enough.

    I'll also take another look through the recent boom of posts (which is really nice to see) and see if I can make something out of it (you'll see a post about it soon enough).

    I think that's all. And keep up the good work!
    cant say likes this.
  18. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    on the concerns of mag tier, the problem was that it was discussed during initial stages of the tier list where it's pretty clear half of us didn't really have a clue of what's good and what's not (iirc older versions had arguments where azurill flat out sucks and volcarona was solid high). mag's dominance of earlygame was pretty big for some to discuss mag tier, what with the ability to 2hko everything earlygame with sonicboom and gets like 14hko'd back in return by just about /everything/. nowadays it's agreed that mag has its own problems during the elesa-clay stage which prevents it from just about raping the game singlehandedly.

    personally i dont really think drilbur is a pokemon that dominates in-game so badly that it is really in a league of its own. there really are some bits where you can possibly go wrong in (marlon is, for once: the fact that you can abuse his AI is one thing, but shittier excadrills may not be able to kill in time, blah. there's also marshal, whom the runner has to go through a series of measures just so that his run of awesomeness wouldn't be stopped by a stray hjk to the face.) excadrill is an amazing pokemon, but drilbur tier is something that i'm really /eh/ on.
  19. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Agreeing with @TM13IceBeam in that to begin with their was an initial push for Mangemite Tier. It didn't happen and I doubt Drilbur tier will either. It's a fantastic ingame Pokemon (as well as competitive) but I very much doubt any Pokemon is worth its own tier unless its incredibly early and very overpowered right off the bat (Maybe the event Genesect if that was allowed).

    @SuperJOCKE I did Vanillish here: http://smogon.com/forums/threads/po...-ii-see-post-840.3473261/page-37#post-4795007 (Just noticed it hadn't been updated on post 840)

    I'd like to post the reservations for Corsola and Castform too. I'll probably get them up by tonight and then its just Umbreon left in bottom tier left to do. I'll move up to low after these two have been completed.
  20. Its_A_Random

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    @SuperJOCKE: Not to be nitpicky, but I never wrote Combee — TM13 did.

    That said, I will reserve Golurk.

    EDIT:
    [​IMG]
    Name: Golurk
    Availability: Endgame (Victory Road 1F, 30%)
    Stats: Golurk is a rather slow Pokémon with average bulk, but a great Base 123 Attack to use its Physical Attacks off.
    Typing: Ground/Ghost-typing is fairly great considering you only have the Rival and the Elite Four to go, as the three immunities and STAB coverage can come in handy at the point you get it.
    Movepool: Golurk gets Earthquake nearly immediate after you get it—or even have it already—while Shadow Punch is its only decent Ghost-type STAB, obtainable via Heart Scale. It also gets Rock Slide and the Elemental Punches as useful moves from TM's and the Driftveil Tutor, as well as Hammer Arm if you can be bothered grinding Golurk to Level 60 before the Elite Four.
    Major Battles: Golurk fares decently in the final Rival Battle and against Caitilin, Marshal, and Iris' Aggron, but is otherwise unspectacular. It mainly depends on what you teach it.
    Additional Comments: Always use Iron Fist over Klutz, especially if you get Shadow Punch for it. In short, Golurk may come at the end of the game, but makes up for it for being at a decent level, as well as being of some use in the remaining battles in the game.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  21. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Reserving Sawk.

    Name: Sawk
    Availability: Endgame, on Route 23.
    Stats: Average bulk, but has excellent 125 Attack and good 85 Speed.
    Typing: Fighting means that Sawk is horrid against ghosts and psychics, with two upcoming important trainers specialising in those. Otherwise, it's decent.
    Movepool: Limited, but extremely concise in just Close Combat, Rock Slide/Payback and an elemental punch.
    Major battles: Cheeses Grimsley, a decent choice against Iris and Marshal, the former especially so if Ice Punch was tutored. Struggles against Shauntal and Caitlin.
    AC: Sturdy makes Sawk a lot more useful, as he is guaranteed to do something before dying. Inner Focus is still usable though, and does not detract from Sawk's appeal as a fast and hard-hitting Fighting-type.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
  22. RegiFlame150

    RegiFlame150

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    May I reserve Joltik?
    [​IMG]
    Name: Joltik
    Availability: Mid-game, Chargestone Cave
    Stats: Decent Special Attack, high Speed, low Defenses, Attack, and HP. Don't let him take too many hits.
    Typing: Bug/Electric makes him neutral to Ground, but gives him a weakness to Rock. His offensive STABs hit many things quite well.
    Movepool: You're going to be limited to physical attacks, Volt Switch, and Electroweb at first, but later he gets Charge Beam. Assuming you have Compoundeyes, his main advantage over other Electric-types is the ability to wield a ~93% accurate Thunder as opposed to 70% Signal Beam can also work late-game, but overall his movepool is shallow.
    Major Battles: Grinds cleanly through Skyla, but faces trouble with Drayden. He can wreck Marlon with STAB Thunder. Against the Elite 4, he can handle Grimsley and Caitlin with Signal Beam/Thunder depending on the Pokemon. Against Iris, he can only really handle Lapras and possibly Hydreigon, as everything else is either faster or can take a hit and heavily damage him.
    Additional Comments: Compoundeyes is better than Unnerve, unless you want to stop boss Pokemon from using Sitrus Berry or something. Joltik should have Thunder as soon as you have access to it, as that is his main draw over more powerful, bulky, Electric-types in-game
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  23. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Finally got time to write up the two from bottom I reserved. Looking forward to getting into meatier mons. Remember guys we only have a few weeks left on this so lets get this shit done :)

    [​IMG]
    Name: Castform
    Availability: Route 6 (Rustling Grass 10%)
    Stats: 70's across the board are not great, but it does make for an interesting special attacker.
    Typing: Normal when there is no weather or Sandstorm. Water for Rain, Fire for Sun and Ice for Hail.
    Movepool: Honestly, not great. Weather Ball is a must and at least 1 weather changing move (Likely Sunny Day or Rain Dance) which helps out both Castform and the rest of your team. It can also learn several TM's depending on which weather you pick. Thunder for Rain or SolarBeam/Flamethrower for Sun.
    Major Battles: The best bet for Castform during major battles is to help out your team by providing weather support. You can pick one up before battling with Clay, and Rain can help you out (You could even go on the offence with Weather Ball if you are confident). Castform is not strong enough to keep up with the endgame trainers or plot points.
    Additional Comments: Castform is an extremely interesting Pokemon that can Provide huge amounts for its team. With a Damp or Heat Rock it can extend the length of the weather it creates, assuming you have a team which can utilize it.

    [​IMG]
    Name: Corsola
    Availability: Late (Humilau City, Surfing Rippling Water 30%)
    Stats: Decent defenses but coupled with bad speed and horrible offence.
    Typing: Water/Rock. This type combination brings some interesting STABs to the table which can work together well.
    Movepool: Surprisingly good. Access to Power Gem and Earth Power make a Special EdgeQuake combo with less power, and add into that Surf and you have a reasonably workable moveset.
    Major Battles: You won't want to use it in the battle with Marlon, but it might see some use in the E4 against Shuantel and Grimsley. In terms of Plasma, Water/Ground coverage can work pretty well against Colress (Although watch out for Electric type moves).
    Additional Comments: It comes a bit late to be of real use and its fairly rare typing can be both a bonus and a negative. Its movepool would be really excellent on a Pokemon with more offensive presence.

    I think that should be all the Bottom mons done... I'll go check now.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  24. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
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    Gonna go ahead & reserve Lillipup~

    [​IMG]
    Name: Lillipup
    Availability: Early (Floccesy Ranch, 40%)
    Stats: Very decent for a Pokémon you get early in the game, with above average bulk, an average speed stat, and a pretty powerful Base 100 Attack in its final form.
    Typing: Normal-type gives you loads of neutralities both offensively an defensively with a lone weakness to Fighting-types. An immunity to Ghost-types is very nice.
    Movepool: Lillipup comes with a very good level-up movepool with Tackle and Bite early on, Crunch and Work Up coming not too far afterwards, and the Elemental Fangs later on in the game via Heart Scales. Dig and Return stand out as notable TM's to teach Lillipup.
    Major Battles: With the exception of Marshal, there is no matchup in the game that stands out as terrible for Lillipup. Against virtually every matchup, Lillipup will be able to reliably make a decent contribution towards the battle—especially in the early gyms—whether it be taking hits or dishing out the damage.
    Additional Comments: If you are lucky enough to have 10 Blue Shards by Lentimas Town, then teaching it Superpower from the local Move Tutor is a really powerful coverage move that allows Lillipup to take on more opponents reliably.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  25. cant say

    cant say

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    599
    ....or what??? the suspense is killing me

    EDIT: totally forgot I reserved Elekid until now

    [​IMG]

    Name: Elekid
    Availability: Exclusive to White 2. Found early game in the Virbank Complex
    Stats: Elekid (and its evolutions) are reasonably fast and have good attacking stats, so you can utilize both physical and special attacks
    Typing: Pure Electric means it is only weak to Ground. It can also beat up on Flying and Water types so it comes in handy for 2 gyms
    Movepool: You get Thunder Wave early, which finds use all game, especially if you prefer paralysis over sleep for catching Pokemon. It also pairs well with Electro Ball. It learns many other Electric moves in Thunder Punch, Discharge and Thunderbolt. Many of its best TM moves come late but it can make use of Return, Dig, Psychic, Flamethrower and Strength. You can also Tutor on Ice Punch with the 10 free red shards for excellent coverage
    Major Battles: Even with Ice Punch, Electabuzz struggles in Clay's gym so don't bother. However he bounces back against Skyla and cleans her out. Marlon is even easier, especially if you traded right away to evolve into Electivire. If you have Ice Punch he can do well against Iris as well
    Additional Comments: If you have access to trading it is worth evolving to Electivire, however if you don't, Electabuzz is still good. It actually has higher speed and special attack than its evolution. Babying Elekid to level 30 is a pain though

    if this is too long let me know
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
    DHR-107 likes this.

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