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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Honestly, I'd rather put up with twenty or so levels of Growlithe in order to get both Flamethrower and Crunch and evolve it into Arcanine rather than evolve it straight away and get...Extremespeed. Not to mention you can Relearn Extremespeed after you evolve it. It's perfectly reasonable to have E-Speed, Flamethrower, Thunder Fang, and Crunch as your endgame movepool.

    Though, that's just me. Growlithe has fine stats for waiting twenty levels, though Flare Blitz I'd rather not use, simply because Flamethrower is good enough for Arcanine, and the recoil isn't worth the boost in power for it. Outrage isn't all that impressive, either.

    Sandshrew - Mid Tier
    -Availability : Desert Resort. It'll probably be the first thing you find. It's that freaking common.
    -Stats : 100 Attack and 110 Defense is great, but...that's kind of the extent of the good things. 45 Special Attack and Special Defense means it can't take ANY hit from a Special Attacker without taking a boatload of damage, and with 75 Base HP, it's probably going to be in trouble . Sandslash is also pretty slow, having a 65 Base Speed stat.
    -Movepool: Simply atrocious. Most of the game you'll be using Magnitude, Rock Tomb, Shadow Claw and Swords Dance as your four moves simply because it doesn't get ANYTHING else worthwhile. Sure, you could slap Aerial Ace on it, but most Grass types will outspeed you anyway, so what's the point? Putting salt in the wound of having to deal with Magnitude for thirty levels is that it can get Earth Power by Move Tutor. Yes, Base 45 Special Attack sure makes that worthwhile, doesn't it? It does get Crush Claw, I guess...and Dig, though I'd rather be dealing with Magnitude than use Dig. On a positive note, you can give it Rock Slide.
    -Major Battles: Sandshrew would have been nice for Roxie...but you can't get it until AFTER Roxie. You can use Sandshrew to counter Dwebble in Burgh's gym, I guess. It does great in Elesa's gym, due to the gym now only having ONE Emolga rather than Emolga up the wazoo. Clay's Excadrill poses no problems for Sandslash, and it can do reasonably well against Skyla using Rock Slide. Sandshrew really doesn't have the defense to deal with anything in Drayden's gym, and it REALLY doesn't like Marlon's gym. It does perform well against Colress and his Steel type team, though. E4's kind of a crapshoot for Sandslash. It can get Shadow Claw, but the things it could use Shadow Claw on are not only faster, but use Special Attacks. It can kill Grimsley's Bisharp, but what Ground type can't? Of course, Swords Dance is nice if you can get a good one in. Just stay far, far away from Caitlin and Shauntel.
    -Additional Comments: With Sandshrew, it's just been a long, hard journey. It hasn't really shone in any of the Generations it was in, and although getting Magnitude was nice, I had to put up with it for thirty levels before it got Earthquake. In this generation, Sandslash is completely outclassed by Excadrill, who is bulkier and has a movepool, and by Krookidile, who has two great abilities and a decent movepool (and fake bulk if you have Intimidate). It simply isn't worth the effort to bring Sandslash to the top, as it's probably the worst of the Ground types (unless you count Stunfisk? Nah, it's Post-game). It has a mediocre movepool and stats that are frankly outclassed by its bros Excadrill and Krookidile.
  2. JMAR

    JMAR

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    Also finished the game last night. First I have to disagree with azureangelic on heracross and roselia.

    Heracross can get bug bite from the red shard tutor so it has a bug attack instantly along with brick break for two powerful stabs. Close combat and megahorn make it great for the late game, it's definitely worthy of high tier at least.

    Roselia wasn't the greatest before it evolved, but petal dance makes it amazing and it's great once it becomes Roserade. It can hold it's own until petal dance thanks to giga drain and eviolite, I just wasn't really impressed until it learned petal dance. By the time you hit lvl 37 you'll have the stone anyway, so that isn't an issue. I had leech seed and toxic spikes too, don't think I ever used those really. Venoshock is fine as a secondary attack, not sure why poison sting would even be mentioned. High tier for me, although Lilligant might outclass it.

    Samurrott was extremely slow on my team. I did have one with a sassy nature, but I feel like it never went first against anything which was a little frustrating. It ended up pulling it's weight though and was the only reason I could get past Iris' Haxorus. I'd say it barely hits high tier, if there was a upper mid tier I'd definitely put it there.

    Excadrill was probably the best poke on my team. It's good for the same reasons it was in the last games. Swords dance with EQ and RS let it sweep some of the harder fights like Drayden, Colress and plenty of the E4. Top tier

    Darmanitan is similar to Excadrill in that it's as good as it was in the last games. Flare Blitz gets rid of everything that doesn't resist it. I did have some problems as Darumaka because of the ability and the above average hax the opponent seems to have in this game. Still would give it High/Top tier.

    Used Magnezone for my last poke, everyone knows how good it is so nothing new to add. Top tier


    I liked this game a lot other than the fact that I can't restart with the challenge mode key. Did anyone else think the opponent's hax were even worse this time though? Confusion and paralysis were hell for me.
  3. R_N

    R_N
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    re: Magmortar it's probably worth noting that you're realistically not getting one until after Marlon
  4. Wrave

    Wrave

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    I just beat Clay and I am having good luck with Sandslash. It and Azumarill have just been ballers for me. My only thing is that that the slow SpD hurts sometimes. Magnemite has been awesome, that 3 gym drought has hurt though as it is meh against Burgh, bad against Elesa and well yeah against Clay. Luckily it will pick up some steam now.

    I have a team of Sandslash, Magnemite, Azumarill, Zorua, Darumaka and am trying different things in that last slot. If I had to pick an MVP right now, it has to be Azumarill. It was key against Cheren, Clay and it did clean up duty against Elesa's trainers. Darumaka just destroys Burgh and you need to get one before facing him.

    I may try Ducklett now that Clay is defeated. I know it is good against it but Azumarill just straight up has dominated. Not too mention I need a flying type because I have a big grass and bug weakness. Darumaka and Magnemite are the only two not weak against them.
  5. rlyn99

    rlyn99

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    You forgot to mention that Sandslash gets rock slide, which is available as a tm in Mistralton Cave, and Excadrill isnt bulkier than sandslash on the physical side. But yeah, Sandslash is pretty terrible, so i agree with the tier placing.

    Drifblim
    Availability: You can catch drifblim starting from Reversal mountain, which is pretty late.

    Stats: 80 attack and 90 Spattack is decent, while 80 speed is pretty good. Its torrid defences at 44 and 54 respectively are alleviated by its 150 base hp.

    Movepool: Drifblim's movepool is fairly shallow, with only a few good tms it can learn. Drifblim learns Acrobatics and Fly, both accesible at this point. Fly is good for utility, while Acrobatics is pretty powerful if you are willing to forego having Drifblim hold an item. It gets shadow ball not long after capture at level 40 as well. Drifblim can learn Will o wisp to cripple pokemon in major battles, and it also can be used in conjunction with Hex for some form of strategy. In terms of attacking diversity, you can use Psychic and charge beam to get physically bulky fighting types and waters respectively. If you are desperate for something to use against Drayden or Iris, Icy wind(tutor move!) is always an option.

    Major battles Drifblim functions badly against Drayden, because 3 of his pokemon carry a move to hit Drifblim. Against Marlon, Drifblim can't do anything either because Carracosta has Smack down and Crunch, Wailord has rollout, and jellicent can do more damage to you than you can do against it. In the E4, Drifblim is a mixed bag against Shauntal, with all her pokemon being vulnerable to drifblim, but at the same time being able to hit back with Shadow Ball. Against Grimmsley, Drifblim can't do much against Liepard, but can actually burn Scrafty and beat it with Acrobatics. Krookodile and Bisharp both destroy Drifblim though. Drifblim functions pretty well against Caitlin, with her pokemon being weak to it. Drifblim can beat Musharna and Reuniclus, but must be wary against Gothitelle(which can set up on it with CM), and Sigilyph(who can use ice beam against it). Drifblim does excellently against Marshall, even though his Sawk and Throh carry Payback and Rock Tomb respectively, they are beaten by Acrobatics. Mienshao can't do anything against Drifblim, and can even be beaten by switching Drifblim in onto HJK, causing it to take recoil damage. Conkeldurr beats it with Stone edge however, so keep drifblim away for that. Drifblim is horrible against Iris, as almost all her pokemon hit Drifblim super effectively, with the exception of Haxorus, who can kill it with +1 Dual Chop.

    In conclusion, Drifblim is bad pokemon to use in game, due to late availabilty, relative ineffectiveness in major battles, a fairly one-dimensional movepool, and mediocre stats besides HP which is made a moot point by its bad defences.

    But I used it anyway because it's cute :3

    Low tier
  6. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    nice troll

    lv46 isn't even that late

    for reference marlon's team is ~lv49 and you don't even need megahorn before him (nor for him either). Timburr's movepool is leagues worse than Hera, stuck with the not-so-spammable Superpower and still having to dick with Wake-up Slap when Heracross is already kicking ass with Close Combat. Bug isn't even a bad typing, fire and rock attacks are rare while Heracross is already weak to Flying.

    Heracross is the best fighting type in the game, period, and there's no reason why it should be anywhere below high. you're penalising heracross for not getting a move that is essentially superfluous until the last gym, which isn't even that late, an entire tier? wat

    Currently on my W2 PT I'm using Elekid, and frankly he's quite... ok. Low defense and lollowkick early on is pretty maddening, but it didn't take much effort for Swift and Shock Wave and he could kind of pull his weight. Leaning towards mid for now, that low defense means he has a lot of problems trying to switch in (although he's fast... really fast, but still lacking blitzle's electric immune...) and magnemite's steel typing + better bulk means it doesn't have much problems coming in either...
  7. azureAngelic

    azureAngelic

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    ok yeah you guys have good points, i just tend to rate ingame pokemon based on their attacking abilities and it felt like the bug typing didnt give much offensive utility until way too late in the game

    also i totally did not realize there was a pre-endgame bug bite tutor derp
  8. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnus

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    All right, just finished the main storyline, here's what I thought.

    Tepig: High
    Availability: It's a starter.
    Stats: Really nice attacking stats and HP, though it's a bit slow. Can go mixed nicely.
    Typing: Fire+Fighting is awesome offensively, though the weaknesses to Flying, Water, Ground, and Psychic really mean it has to be careful sometimes.
    Movepool: Good coverage, with its main move being an STAB Fire-type attack. Gets Flame Charge reasonably early, then later Heat Crash and gets Flamethrower just before the Elite Four. Fire Blast is also obtainable earlier than Flamethrower. Along with Rock Slide, Bulldoze, and the late-game Wild Charge, it can do damage. Its biggest weakness is needing TMs that aren't really available to stop from relying on Arm Thrust...
    Major Battles: Good against Roxie's Whirlipede, Burgh, and Grimsley (minus Krookodile), and most of Team Plasma won't want to be anywhere near it either. It's also surprisingly good against Elesa. Has troubles with Skyla, Marlon, and Caitlin, though. It's also a solid backup against most anything not listed.
    Additional Comments: It has slightly fewer great matchups than BW1, but I found myself relying on it more than expected.



    Purrloin: Bottom
    Availability: Right on Route 19, so basically the beginning
    Stats: It's fast... And basically that's it. It can revenge things decently well but does nothing else notable.
    Typing: Dark helps a lot against Psychic- and Ghost-types... And leaves it wide open to things like U-turn and Fighting-types instead. Not the best trade-off.
    Movepool: Relying on Fake Out+Pursuit for so long is terrible. Actually, Fake Out stays the whole game. Upgrades to Snarl midgame and gets Night Slash relatively late... No real coverage, either.
    Major Battles: Solid against Caitlin and Shauntal for the most part... And that's about it. Can help vs Marlon's Starmie too. It's terrible against things it lacks a type advantage against, and only can come in and really Fake Out and use a move before fainting in many cases.
    Additional Comments: Almost everything I can think of is better... Best thing I can say is that it gets Cut early. That's it.


    Magnemite: Top
    Availability: Just before the second gym in the Virbank Complex.
    Stats: Good Defense and fantastic Special Attack is awesome, and it's passable mostly everywhere else of note outside of Attack.
    Typing: Electric/Steel is hardly even fair. 13 resistances more than make up for three common weaknesses and lets it beat an extremely wide variety of important Pokemon.
    Movepool: It's pretty shallow, but Magnemite doesn't need much. Sonicboom is devastating and comes very early, and Thundershock is there too. Gets Magnet Bomb for a good STAB in that mid-game part where it's stuck with either Spark or Volt Switch, but then it eventually gets Charge Beam to fix that. Discharge, Thunderbolt, and Flash Cannon come relatively late. Signal Beam is an optional tutor move that isn't necessary but is still nice against Grass-types and the like.
    Major Battles: Well, it has problems with Elesa, Clay, and Marshal but that's about it. It just destroys Roxie, Burgh, Skyla, Marlon, Corless, and Caitlin and is still good against the others.
    Additional Comments: It basically skips the Magneton stage since it evolves in Chargestone cave, which is a nice bonus on an already amazing Pokemon.


    Zubat: Mid
    Availability: Caught in the Castelia Sewers at a decent level, right before a great training opportunity in Burgh's gym.
    Stats: It has amazing Speed and is solid everywhere else. It's good in a pinch to pick off something weakened.
    Typing: Poison/Flying is actually good defensively due to its fantastic resistances, but offensively it leaves something to be desired. That Poison type goes basically unused, though Flying is a good type.
    Movepool: Has an incredibly shallow movepool, though at least Zubat comes right around the time it learns Wing Attack in this game. Once it gets Acrobatics, it just becomes a wrecking ball to anything that doesn't resist it, though sadly, it really can't hit anything that does. X-Scissor looks like good coverage but it doesn't hit anything harder than Acrobatics.
    Major Battles: It handles Burgh nicely outside of Dwebble, and with Confuse Ray it can do decently against Clay. It also crushes Marshal. Sadly, Elesa wrecks it, Skyla's Skarmory is a huge problem, and Caitlin beats it. Crobat can take out something dangerous in pretty much every battle though, so despite its relatively few solo wins it's never dead weight at all.
    Additional Comments: Crobat basically ends up being a Pokemon that saves wins in bad situations but doesn't create a ton of them itself, at least in the big battles. In the smaller ones, Crobat makes things quite easy.


    Eevee (Vaporeon): Mid
    Availability: Eevee can be caught in Castelia City, in a little park area accessed from the Castelia Sewers, just before the 3rd gym. In Vaporeon's case, Water Stones aren't available until either the Pokemon World Tournament (with 3 BP) or just afterwards when Cheren gives Surf on Route 6, when you can then get a Water Stone on Route 19. That lag between catching and evolving is quite a problem.
    Stats: Once evolved, Vaporeon has good Special Attack and defensive stats to work with, letting it excel quite nicely.
    Typing: Pure Water is very useful, only having troubles against other Water-types and Electrics. Later, even Dragon- and Grass-types have issues with Vaporeon. As Eevee, Normal isn't very good at all, as Eevee really doesn't hit hard enough to deal with using neutral hits.
    Movepool: Somewhat shallow, but it can do. Eevee ends up using Work Up, Return, and Bite for most of its time. As Vaporeon, Surf is an incredible option. Icy Wind is a tutor move that may be worthwhile in spots, and Ice Beam is acquired late in the game and is especially useful against Iris.
    Major Battles: It has trouble against Burgh, Elesa, and Clay just because it's still stuck as an Eevee. Marlon is also an issue due to Vaporeon's lackluster coverage. It's helpful if it has Icy Wind against Drayden, and is surprisingly good against Team Plasma minus Corless. It also beats half of Iris' team easily and can do some damage to that nasty Hydreigon.
    Additional Comments: This would certainly be high tier if it evolved earlier, but that Eevee stage is a total pain to handle.


    Gothita: Low
    Availability: It comes on Route 16, which is available just before the 4th gym.
    Stats: It has good Special Attack, especially once evolved, but is somewhat slow and its defenses aren't great.
    Typing: Psychic is a real mixed bag. It has troubles with much of Team Plasma just because it's weak to Dark, but it dominates most Fighting-types because of that same typing.
    Movepool: Getting Psyshock early is nice, but otherwise it's not too great until late. It really wants that Signal Beam tutor in Driftveil which isn't expensive, just so it can do something to Psychic- and Dark-types. Charge Beam is there too, but isn't too helpful. Thunderbolt at the Elite Four, however, is.
    Major Battles: Clay is a problem for Gothita, as are Drayden and Grimsley. It's actually good for facing Marshal, but otherwise it's neutral, and Gothitelle has some trouble keeping up with neutral things late.
    Additional Comments: Psychic is better than Psyshock at the end, by the way. Psychic comes by level or on Route 13, whichever comes first.
  9. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Would you believe I actually missed Rock Slide? Most of the game for Sandslash was "Magnitude, Slash, Swift, Rock Tomb" for me. Until like Level 40 or so, when it got Swords Dance, but it's so frail that it can't pull off SD effectively. Believe me, I tried.

    As for the bulkier comment, I meant in general, but I'll edit in that Sandslash is bulkier than Excadrill on the physical side.

    Also, I haven't used Heracross yet, but I fail to see how it outclasses Scrafty in any way. Close Combat is cool, but HJK is more powerful, and since you don't get the Black Belt until post game...

    Plus, Moxie. Though Heracross is probably easier to find than Moxie Scraggy. Moxie Scraggy just breaks the game in half, though. I rarely used Magnezone after the sixth gym because Scrafty just...destroyed everything.

    The problem with Gothita is that it really doesn't shine until it turns into Gothitelle. It takes Physical and Special hits very well, and helped out against the E4 (something that Sandslash DIDN'T do). Then again, look at Solosis. Same problem, it doesn't really shine until its final evolution, where it becomes a wrecking ball.

    I was satisfied with my Gothitelle that I captured in the Strange House. I'd say it was my third best member when it evolved.

    EDIT: Derp, I forgot about Heracross' stupid high attack stat. I still think Scrafty's more useful, since you basically just need it and a Psychic type to destroy the E4
  10. diamondfan1910

    diamondfan1910

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    Also just finished the game, here's the analysis for the only mon I used that hasn't been done yet:

    Drilbur (AKA Magnemite of BW1): Top
    Availability: Relic Passage, shortly after the 2nd Gym
    Stats: The word "truck" does not do this thing justice, 4th highest Attack in the maingame at 135 with arguably the best STAB (helped by Plasma using way more Poisons now). Has a whopping 110 HP to complement its Steel typing and make up for its crap defenses. So you'd expect it to have like 50 Speed but OH NO it's 88, which more than gets the job done against even base 100s since opponents rarely use EVs.
    Typing: Ground/Steel is godly. Anything/Steel is godly.
    STAB EQ-pool: You get Drilbur a bit later than BW so it's 3 levels off Dig at most, gets everything it needs via level up and the Rock Tomb TM comes adequately before Rock Slide. You can easily rock HC/EQ/Rock Slide/Filler by Gym 5, just don't evolve Drilbur until 33 for an early EQ. Excadrill is the only mon I've used in all 3 playthroughs that genuinely makes great use of Swords Dance, which should replace HC when you get it. Basically his movepool isn't huge but Ground/Rock is all he needs. Throw X-Scissor/Return/Strength/Cut in the last slot or even Aerial Ace if you're a crafty fucker who hates THAT Clefable, I used X-Scissor for Hydreigon/Claydol/Grass-types. Did I mention STAB EQ off 135 Atk
    Major Battles: Bad against Burgh, Marshal and maybe Clay but Bulldoze is shit and you'll outspeed -> OHKO his Excadrill so maybe not. You're not even bad against Marlon since his mons are slow, physically frail and Scald is really weak. Makes mincemeat of Elesa, Skyla (Bubblebeam? Really?), Drayden, the rest of the E4 and half of Iris' team. 3-0's Zinzolin and the Shadow Triad, turns legit threat Colress into a literal joke and simplifies Ghetsis, just keep him away from Eelektross.
    Additional Comments: He's still got it. Normally this is where you'd say something like "watch out for Scrafty" but I honestly ploughed through everything that should beat Exca with Soft Sand EQ. Destroys vanilla trainers, Plasma grunts and major bosses, BW2 might suit Drilbur even better than BW1. This is one mon you don't want to be without.
  11. R_N

    R_N
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    Are we using the same Sandslash? Mine's resaonably bulky (it can in fact take a special attack to the face and still live) and can pull of Swords Dance pretty well.

    e: I mean I wouldn't put it high but it's definitely serviceable
  12. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Gonna argue the Marlon part, due to Scald's burn chance (which completely cripples Excadrill and the computer is a cheating bastard), and that Scald has 80 BP, the same as Waterfall, meaning that it'll do a lot regardless. Carracosta will get one hit in regardless thanks to Sturdy (unless it Shell Smashes and outspeeds you on Turn 2). At least he does better than Sandslash.

    Speaking of which...

    That's some Sandslash you have there. I'm having trouble computing Sandslash actually taking a Special Attack and living. Unless it was a NVE hit. Even Neutral hits put Sandslash deep in the red for me.

    Grave is Level 53, and has only 68 Special Defense. The problem I had was that Sandslash could take a hit, but couldn't manage to take another hit after SD. Compare that to Weezing, who can VERY effectively take hits from the physical side and still manage to have a better Sp.Def than Sandslash. If you want, I can include that it has a near useless ability (Sand Veil). I didn't say it wasn't usable, I just kept saying to myself every time I brought Sandslash out "Why am I not using Excadrill? Why am I not using Krookidile?" Sandshrew's biggest boon is getting an Electric Gym to trounce and evolving early. The biggest problem by far is that Sandslash is just...there. He exists in your party for most of the game without doing anything of note.
  13. diamondfan1910

    diamondfan1910

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    None of his Pokemon have enough SpA to deter Excadrill, I'll grant you Carracosta is annoying with Sturdy but it normally Shell Smashes and still won't get the jump, that's 32 Speed for you. Wailord and Jellicent get 2HKO'd at worst with EQ. Excadrill's not the best thing to use against Marlon but the fact that it CAN actually beat a leader in a type it's weak to is at once a testament to Excadrill's brilliance and Marlon's shittiness.

    With Sandslash I'm on the fence about its extra Defence (no pun intended), on one hand it gives it an edge over Excadrill against Fighting and Ground-types but on the other Excadrill's Steel typing means it resists loads of stuff and takes less than Sandslash would anyway. Also Excadrill is much faster, meaning it might never have to take the hits that Sandslash will.
  14. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

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    Magmortar’s offenses are NOT on the same level as Darmanitan, ability to go mixed or no. 140 Attack further boosted by Sheer Force a lot of the time makes Darmanitan useful even when it shouldn’t be. Magmar’s offenses flat-out don’t even compare. Is Darmy frail? Yes (although not overly – 110 HP), but it doesn’t really matter much when you score 1HKOs so easily.


    For full disclosure, I used Darmy in Black and Magby in Black 2, so I can’t claim to know everything about how useful or not the former is exactly in Black 2 firsthand, but Darm definitely pulled more weight in Black than Magmar did in Black 2, even ignoring things like switching an Ice gym for a Water gym which certainly does the type no favors.


    Focusing specifically on Magmar since that’s the ‘mon in question, however, I quite agree with a lot of what you say about it. Even after taking a backseat post-Burgh, it still remains useable the entire game, has great utility against Corless, etc. But it doesn’t kick ass the way things in High Tier generally do. It’s perfectly usable but not really great. Even with Eviolite, it’s not exactly a tank with 57 Defense. I mean, it’ll DEFINITELY take hits more comfortably, especially if you throw out a burn, but it’s still more efficient for it to go for a kill than try to burn stall something. I think it’s a fine option, just not a great option or anything particularly noteworthy.


    Perhaps it is simply a matter of in-game playstyle difference, though, like you said. I’m of the opinion, and it was my understanding of how tier lists generally play out, that a terrific offense is almost always better than being well balanced unless you REALLY have a lot going for you in other ways.









    75/110 Physically is NOT frail. If you're having trouble with SD, why not set up on physical mons? 65 Speed also might not be "good", but it's still outpacing quite a number of things. A lot of them being physical.

    Also, yeah, Carracosta typically Shell Smashes the first turn just to STILL be slower with Sturdy being broken already.
  15. R_N

    R_N
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    My Sandslash currently has 75 Sp. Defense at level 51 (and for reference 152 HP, 122 attack, 136 defense)
    Do you have a special defense lowering nature? Mine has a neutral nature.

    As for just being there I'd have to argue against that. I've been using mine a fair bit for hitting poisons, rocks, ghosts (I opted for Shadow Claw over Rock Slide; apparently Sandslash can outspeed most of the Jellies, who knew) and just general hitting of things. But that will probably vary based on people's team mates
  16. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    These are things that Excadrill and Krookidile can do better, though. Sandslash is terribly outclassed by Excadrill, and for the most part, becomes dead weight come endgame. It can't defeat any of the bosses without serious help (sans Elesa), and that terrible SpDef means I can't usually switch it into something it should be able to kill because it takes serious damage/gets killed itself because it's so slow.

    EDIT: I got the "wonderful" Bold nature, since I'm not picky in-game. Excadrill also has amazing availability, while Sandshrew just has the Desert Resort. It's possible to get a Level 55 Excadrill in Giant Chasm if you really want one late in the game. Don't forget that Excadrill gets everything that Sandslash gets, including Swords Dance. Krookidile has either fake bulk or Moxie to boost its attack (does it get Hone Claws?)

    Please tell me how many Physical attackers there are after Mistralton that are of any note at all? How about Gym Leaders that it can trounce? Drayden and Marlon both steamroll Sandslash, Zinzolin has Ice types, a whole bunch of the Plasma Grunts have special attackers, and Ghetsis is...Ghetsis.

    The E4 is primarily Special Attackers as well, with Marshal and Grimsley being the only two who don't use Special Attackers (Iris, Caitlin and Shauntel all use Special Attackers)

    I'm perfectly fine with moving Sandslash to Mid, though. I may have been a bit harsh on it.

    Also...

    Seems to me that Team Plasma uses more Poison types (read, Trubbish and Zubat) than Dark types. And if Sandslash's not frail, than Gothitelle certainly isn't, with 70/95/110 Defenses (read: Better than Reuniclus' 110/75/85) I actually left Psyshock AND Psychic on because that's kinda the gimmick with Psychic types in Gen 5; they hit both Physical and Special using their Special Stat. 95 Base SpAtk is fine (Crobat has Base 90 Physical, for example) and has the same base speed as Sandslash, which Manic Martini just pointed out, is acceptable (and I'm accepting that notion). Gothitelle's speed is nothing compared to Reuniclus' speed, though. Base 30 is terrible. Energy Ball is available just after you get Surf in Aspertia Town, and Charge Beam is actually pretty decent since it tends to raise that SpAtk after it's used. It's also useful for taking down Marshal.
  17. R_N

    R_N
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    I'm not saying Sandslash isn't outclassed by Excadrill or Krookodile
    I'm just saying he's not low-tier

    And I just got through the end game and Sandslash was just fine. Obviously I kept him away from Zinzolin (though it was the oddest thing; I was using a Druddigon against him because brainfart but he never once used Ice Beam...) but he took physical hits from the Krookodiles/Krokoroks & Scraftrys, some of Ghetsis' mons and so on just fine...I'm actually having issues remembering most special attackers after Misaltron. Sludge Bomb came up a few times but...well...sludge bomb; Air Cutter's about the only other notable I can think of and that was never an issue.

    And I've also seen him take several Water Pulses and junk from wild stuff and still be in yellow (but maybe they just rolled weak stats)
  18. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

    Joined:
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    Sandslash being outclassed by Krook and Exca is absolutely true. No one is challenging that. But if Sandslash itself is able to do some of the things those that outclass it also do, shouldn't it still get credit for that itself?

    And Marshall/Grimsley make up half of the E4. And Iris does not just use Special attackers. How about her Aggron with her quadruple Ground weakness? And Marshall doesn't have a single move that hits Sandslash super effectively, and half his team is slower. Slash might actually be capable of setting up on Marshall. It'd need healing probably, but he could hypothetically do it. It could also set up on Grimsley's Liepard.

    A whole bunch of Plasma has physical stuff, too. Oh, and Corless! Sandslash has plenty to take advantage of against Corless! Also, all the Pawniards in the Shadow Triad. Two of Ghetsis's mon's are also Poison types which are ALSO physical.
  19. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    I forgot about Colress, actually (I kinda want to forget about him...stupid plot). As for Grimsley, I was too busy busting heads with Scrafty and Weezing to bother with Sandslash.

    I said I was fine with moving it to Mid, though. I'm not moving it any higher than that.
  20. Manic Martini

    Manic Martini

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
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    I think I was too hard on Zubat initially largely because even when it could have been pulling weight, I had other stuff that did so better. For a lot of things that aren’t clearly awesome or terrible, when you use them with things that are, or when you use things that overlap in purpose, gauging their use fairly can definitely become trickier it seems like.

    Surprised no one has done Krookodile yet. Granted, everyone knows it’s going to do well.
    Sandile: High Tier (possibly Top)
    Availability: Route 4. Pleasantly early enough in the game.
    Typing: Ground/Dark gives you two immunities and a very useful STAB combination, but also weaknesses to notable types such as Ice, Fighting, and Water. It’s an overall solid typing to have, however.
    Movepool: not crazy-wide or anything, but it does really well with what it has access to. Comes with STAB Bite with Dig available by TM and eventually upgrades to Crunch and Earthquake. Throw in Rock type supplemental coverage and you’re good to go.
    Major Battles: Can literally solo Elesa’s entire gym if you add on Rock Tomb, eats the /Psychic types in Clay’s Gym and has an advantage against his Excadrill, can use Rockslide for Skyla to great effect. It can also pull some weight with Drayden if you have Moxie. Even against Marlon’s gym, the only gym where it explicitly faces a typing disadvantage, it has coverage on the random /Flying and /Psychic pokemon you encounter and can take on two of Marlon’s three pokemon with supereffective STAB moves. Tears up a lot of Team Plasma and can solo Corless with its STAB combination. AND it can Solo Shauntal and Cainlin. Always very useful.
    Additional Comments: As if Krookodile didn’t have enough in its favor, both of its abilities are super useful. But Moxie is definitely the ability to go with. It lets it sweep all sorts of things and guarantees wins without any doubt in some of the biggest fights in the game. The thing is an offensive monster. The only notable downside to it is its typing gives it some notable weaknesses, but it’s so great offensively it doesn’t really matter. No low point.
  21. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Just going to say that Darmanitan's 'frailness' is in part to the fact that 99% of the time it'll be spamming Flare Blitz which rapes its HP pretty quickly.
    also i was under the impression that iris mains physical because haxorus

    Low Tier generally means that the Pokemon requires a lot of support to function, or faces problems with most trainers in the game. Sandslash performs fine against physical-oriented trainers, and doesn't need that much support. He doesn't really belong there imo
  22. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    Sandslash should be mid at max ! He's not fast or bulky to be high, but it doesn't struggle too much to be Low ....

    The traded Liligant is such a beast ... More than in BW1 I think ... It levels so fast ... I will do a real analysis at the end of the run, but perfect Nature + very good IV + perfect Timing + Early evolution (level 26 for Giga Drain then Sun stone then level 28 for Quiver Dance)


    Trapinch is really disappointing ... I love the line, but at level 21, he forgets Bite/Faint Attack so he loses coverage until Crunch ... He's so Slow & frail even with Eviolite ...
  23. Son_of_Shadoo

    Son_of_Shadoo

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    I'm blind as a fucking bat.

    You should really mention the traded Gigalith from route 7 here, since it comes just before Skyla and proceeds to snap her like a twig. It's also got a guaranteed Adamant nature and joins at level 35. The main downside to the traded one is that Emolga is fairly rare, so it can be a pain to find.
  24. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Lapras and Hydreigon both come to mind from her team. I only remember the Aggron because it doesn't have Sturdy for some reason. That clarification on the tiers is really nice, though. I'd be pushing Gothitelle up to mid tier simply because it managed to stand out among the big boys (Magnezone and Scrafty) and it gets decent moves fairly early.
  25. jynx

    jynx

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
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    711
    Name: Sigilyph
    - Tier - High

    Availability: Desert Resort, around 10%

    Stats: Strong speed sweeper -- 97 speed, 103 special attack, most foes KOed before having a chance to move.

    Typing: Great typing for BW2, STAB in flying and psychic deals with most fighting type trainers on the roads. Psychic type makes it receive little damage from other psychic Pokemon.
    Can be used as a lead to clear an entire road of trainers.

    Movepool: Effective in-game move pool, access to Air Slash quite quickly-- PP sufficient move for travels. Psychic follows quickly.
    Can be taught Charge Beam fairly early.
    Can act as your flyer if you have no space for another flyer.
    Can also learn Flash (though not too important)



    Major Battles: Describe how the Pokémon handles the major opponents throughout the game. Fighting typed trainers and psychic typed trainers on roads or in the towers, which are otherwise difficult to be dealt with, can be cleared with Sigilyph easily, often without taking much damage due to its speed.
    Clears Psychic Elite 4 and Fighting Elite 4 happily.


    Additional Comments: Ability prevents HP loss from poison/ burn, saves money on anti-dotes, especially important in BW2 due to heavy status usage.
    However, it has difficult times dealing with Team Plasma once they start using steel types.

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