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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Woops :p I will fix that now haha... I think i was going to say something about Flamethrower... But got distracted at work. Problem is it works way better under rain than sun :p

    EDIT: Fixed with Solar Beam :D
    cant say likes this.
  2. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    I would like to reserve Minccino for myself.

    EDIT: Here is my analysis:

    [​IMG]
    Name: Minccino
    Availability: Minccino is available in a Hidden Grotto in Route 5, with Skill Link. It evolves with a shiny stone.
    Stats: Minncino has average stats, with a slightly above average speed. Upon evolving into a Cinccino, it has a very high speed and slightly above average attack. All its other stats are below average, so it won't be taking many hits.
    Typing: Both Minccino and Cinccino have the decent Normal type, so it has a weakness and an immunity defensively, and its STAB gets 2 resists and an immunity.
    Movepool: It may have a shallow movepool, but it has what it needs to function. It starts with Double Slap. Upon leveling up to the very close level 25, it gets Tail Slap. Upon evolving, it can be re-taught Bullet Seed and Rock Blast by the move relearner. Its last move isn't very important, though. Most physical moves would do.
    Major Battles: It struggles against any steel type, and fight types can hit hard if they get a chance to attack. Other than that, it does just fine and will pull its own weight and more against anything else, bar rock or ghost-types before getting the fifth gym badge.
    Additional Comments: Skill Link is the only ability worth having, and Cinccino needs Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast to function, so it is fairly limited. However, if you use it well, you will find it to be a great member on almost any team.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  3. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    cant say likes this.
  4. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    Sorry, I just forgot to finish it. I'll do it now.
  5. RegiFlame150

    RegiFlame150

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    Agh, school...I never finished Joltik so I'll do it now.

    [​IMG]
    Name: Joltik
    Availability: Chargestone Cave, extremely common
    Stats: Decent Special Attack and high Speed. It has poor defenses and Attack
    Typing: Bug/Electric gives it a neutrality to Ground, but keeps an unfortunate weakness to Rock and Fire. It loses the helpful Flying resistance as well. Offensively, its STABs hit most things for decent damage.
    Movepool: Shallow. Joltik relies on Electro Ball and Volt Switch to do any notable damage at first. Signal Beam comes a short while later for Bug STAB. The biggest win for Joltik, however, is access to 93% accurate Thunder (if Compoundeyes) which smacks late-game opponents for heavy damage and possible paralysis. Energy Ball and Giga Drain are viable options for Grass coverage. If Joltik has Unnerve, Discharge and Thunderbolt are both acceptable options, but they come very late. Bug Buzz is Joltik's most powerful Bug STAB and can come in handy for the E4. Joltik has two decent physical STABs but its mediocre Attack holds it back.
    Major Battles: Joltik grinds cleanly through Skyla's gym, although powerful Acrobatics and Air Slashes can put it down. The EleSpider bounces back against Marlon, frying everything on his team (heads up for Carracosta). Galvantula (post-evolution) can take down the myriad Dark- and Flying- types on Team Plasma with ease. However, he performs Against the Elite 4, Caitlin and Grimsley will go down to Bug Buzz and Thunder.
    Additional Comments:
    Compoundeyes is always the superior ability (although Unnerve can deactivate annoying Sitrus Berries) and Compoundeyes Joltik is easily found due to not having a visual cue before the battle.

    Please tell me if this is too long :)
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  6. cant say

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    RegiFlame150 it's very long. Try cutting down the movepool and match-up entries. For example, just list which moves are good, without expanding on who they're good against, and which major battles it has a type advantage in. Also, you don't need to say there are better electric types in the A/C, I would just say that compound eyes is the preferred ability for thunder.

    EDIT: Mulan15262 you could maybe simplify yours too. Maybe just explain that normal has 1 weakness and 1 immunity, and in the movepool section, just list that it should use the multi-hit moves to make use if skill link, and which is the best 4th slot option. In regards to availability, just explain its a fixed encounter in the hidden grotto, and evolves with a shiny stone. While all your entries are informative, they just don't need to be expanded on so much
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  7. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    Is mine a good length now, or should I shorten it farther?
  8. cant say

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    Mulan15262 the length is much better! If anything, I would try talking Cincinno up a bit in the major battles part, it was voted Top Tier for a reason, and that's because it kicks ass. It's consistent throughout the game with its good speed and attack, and is able to contribute in nearly every major battle. I know it's hard to do with such limited space (I avoided reserving Mincinno on purpose). Also, in hindsight Wake-up Slap is probably it's best fourth move for Steal coverage. U-turn is good too but you have to grind for BP..

    But other than that, good job!
  9. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    [​IMG] -> [​IMG]

    Name: Umbreon
    Availability: Early (Castelia Park, 5%)
    Stats: A defensive behemoth in terms of stats, you won't find a lot which can dent Umbreon. Its offenses however are way under par.
    Typing: Dark. It has solid matchups but with such poor offensive stats it doesn't work well.
    Movepool: Terrible. Even if you wanted to try a support set, most of the good support options are off limits due to breeding. Bite and Faint Attack are your best STAB options unless you drop 8 Blue Shards for Foul Play in Lentimas Town. Access to Shadow Ball gives you almost nothing and your best physical move is Return or Last Resort.
    Major Battles: Like most other Dark- Types it can handle Caitlin and Shauntal okay. With its top notch defenses it can be hard to kill for some of the stronger enemies, but you are not dealing a huge amount of damage back. Slow and Steady would be a reasonable assumption to make.
    Additional Comments: Needs to be night time to evolve it and also max happiness. If you're given the choice, go with Espeon.

    Right, that should be all the bottom tier Pokemon done (Unless new ones are added soon). I am going to move upto the Low tiered mons and start to work through those.

    ALSO: Can we please move N's Zorua down a tier. It really is not deserving of being so high up. Any Dark type can lol at Caitlin and Shauntal for the most part, why does this give Zorua such a huge boost when its movepool is really terrible until right at the end of the game?
    Level 51 likes this.
  10. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    First, other dark types may be able to beat psychic-types easily, but Zorua/Zoroark's ability can make the AI think it is a fight or poison-type, and use psychic-type moves, so Zoroark can easily Nasty Plot up to +6 on pretty much any of Caitlin's pokemon if you disguise it as a pokemon weak to psychic-type moves, at which point it OHKOs anything with Snarl. Furthermore, if disguised well, Zoroark won't have to eat any focus blasts.

    Furthermore, Snarl isn't that bad of a move, and can make Zoroark specially bulky. Its 120 Special Attack and 105 speed can make it outspeed teams, and its 105 attack can enable it to go mixed until it gets Dark Pulse/Night Daze.

    The fact that it gets 1.5 times exp. is also a good buff.
    cant say likes this.
  11. cant say

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    DHR-107 Zorua is a fixed encounter with near perfect IV's and boosted experience. It's fast and can hit hard from both sides of the attacking spectrum so it's easy for newbies to pick up. It can contribute in most major battles, as well as taking out 2 of the E4 by itself. Sorry but I don't see how it's anything lower than high
  12. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Have any of you actually looked at Zorua's movepool? I'm sorry but beating 2 Elite 4 members easily just does not justify it being that high when it sucks balls the rest of the game. It comes at Level 10 (way below your team, which I know is not a huge problem with Audino everywhere), and it literally learns NOTHING of value until it evolves and gets Night Slash. Nasty Plot comes at Lv 54 (literally right before the Elite 4) by which point I hope you have a decent Dark move (Dark Pulse, which is expensive in terms of shards) and Flamethrower (which is also literally right before the E4). I also mentioned that Yes, it does great vs Caitlin and Shauntal (In fact its probably the best Pokemon in the game for it), it doesn't make it top tier when it only becomes really good literally right before Victory Road/E4.

    EDIT: Any Pokemon with a good setup move can laugh at Caitlin while she continues to try to keep you asleep with Hypnosis/Yawn. I swept her team in Challenge mode with a Beautifly ffs.


    It can't hit crap from either offence when its most powerful move is Faint Attack until it evolves... Even with Eviolite it has pretty bad defences. Even after it evolves, Dark Pulse (Assuming you get it) does not really do it justice. Which major battles are you talking about? Colress where his Steels wall you or Zinzolin who has a dark type as his center piece (Good luck cracking Cryogonal with special moves). Even Ghetsis giggles at you when half his team resists your STAB.

    I trained one from an egg with Dark Pulse (With good IV's, the XP gain is negligible) and it was still terrible up until it became game breakingly good at the E4. I'm sorry but being good for the last 10% of the game does not make you high tier in my book.
  13. TM13IceBeam

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    Zorua comes at L25, 5 levels before evolution, and it's not that difficult to train given that it has boosted EXP. Snarl is passable though you'll end up using Night Slash most of the time anyway. Cryogonal is cracked with Night Slash so I don't see your point.

    I don't know man, is this like another Lucario clone-bashing competition where he doesn't get his awesome special moves until lategame when he's still passable anyway with physical moves? You get Dig, Aerial Ace and Return for some coverage offense, at least (heck does Zoroark need Return? it's not like STAB night slash is going to lose to return anytime soon) The only issue is that you don't have SD, but you can still make do with Hone Claws. Zoroark's not that bad for high tier imo.
  14. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    Dig, U Turn are also good moves for him
    cant say likes this.
  15. khaozz13

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    In addition to this, Zorua comes slightly before PWT, where you can get Hidden Power for 18 BP (even if you lose, you get some shards out of it). With Zorua's IVs being 30 across the board, that would give Zorua 70 BP HP Fighting, which is great coverage with its Dark STAB. Sure it can be a bit time consuming, but I think it's worth it in the long run.
  16. cant say

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    Have you actually used N's Zorua in BW2? I know you used that Zorua you bred, but I think they would be too different experiences, and it sounds like you're going off numbers when in actual practice Zorua is a very good 'mon in this game.
  17. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    Well I've just finished a run of White 2 and I'd like to nominate Skorupi for High Tier. I honestly feel it should be somewhere between high & mid but I had to pick one and there are a couple Pokemon I feel Skorupi competes positively with in high tier.
    The reservation list states that Skorupi is done, but I don't see anything in the OP, so I'll fill this out just in case as well as to explain my points.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Name: Skorupi
    Availability: Mid-Late game, Reversal Mountain, Level 35-37 in Dark Grass, 3 levels from evolution.
    Stats: Skorupi's Base 90 Def, poisoning, and berry-stealing makes it pretty mindless to Audino grind those 3 levels. Drapion has a great base 95 speed, high base 110 Defense, and a solid Base 90 Attack. It usually attacks first, even with a neutral nature, and can survive anything but a STAB Earthquake.
    Typing: It's Poison/Bug to start out, but that lasts for about 5 minutes. It evolves to become one of the dime-a-dozen late-game Dark-types as well as a common Poison-type but it only has one weakness; Ground. Poison resistance & poison-status immunity are fantastic late-game but just be mindful that Earthquake is common in the final stretch of the game.
    Movepool: Gets Night Slash right before evolution and always has Hone Claws when caught. All the Elemental Fangs are available via Move Reminder for one Heart Scale each, giving it a Physical BoltBeam as well as Fire Fang for coverage. It gets Crunch around Victory Road at level 49. X-Scissor can take other Dark-types out faster. It struggles with Steel-types initially but learns Bulldoze, Dig, and the previously mentioned Fire Fang to cope. However, Drapion is pretty much forced to switch against a Ground-type not x4 weak to Ice.
    Major Battles: Ice Fang and its Defense stat can help with Drayden's Gym and Marlon's Gym has plenty of Water/Flying-types clipped by Thunder Fang as well as a Starmie and Marlon's own Jellicent begging for a Night Slash. Drapion walls and runs through Team Plasma and sweeps half the Elite 4 as they struggle to even touch it.
    Additional Comments: Drapion is a contender for the most coverage you can get in the main story. Its stats let it function as a fast tank that, depending on the nature, can hit pretty hard. It may not hit the hardest with its coverage moves, but it is never hard-walled by anything and can stand its ground. Battle Armor makes crits a non-factor, which is fantastic for Hone Claws setup, and Sniper pairs well with Scope Lens and Night Slash for consistent and punishing crits. It can use Black Sludge as well so it won't hog your team's Leftovers like other Pokemon. It can also make use of Expert Belt as it can nail most Pokemon super effectively for an easy 2HKO. Speed and coverage are definitely its biggest selling points as Aggron can play similarly against Plasma and the Elite 4 but lacks the Speed to sweep and Zoroark can sweep the same members of the Elite 4 but finds itself walled by many other Pokemon that Drapion would not. If you lack a full party by Reversal Mountain, Skorupi is a very solid pick.


    I'd definitely call this guy the best in-game BW2 Dark-type. I've ran with Zoroark multiple times now and it hasn't been nearly as useful as Drapion. You get it 2 gyms later than Zorua, but Zoroark isn't very useful until after you have access to Drapion outside of the couple Sigilyph you face in Skyla's Gym in challenge mode (and Celestial Tower, but that area is entirely optional anyway once you get the Lucky Egg on the 1st floor and only contains two very 'meh' TMs). Unlike Zoroark, you don't have to grind PWT or Subway for an hour to get a half-decent coverage move; all it costs is a few Heart Scales that the game liberally throws at you (I had 3 by that point without even looking for them) and you have Physical BoltBeam + Fire or Ground coverage. No Battle Points, no Shards, no time wasted. You have access to Expert Belt even before you get Skorupi so Drapion's base 90 Attack stat becomes significantly beefier because there are so many Pokemon Drapion can hit super effectively. It's very versatile and it becomes a team player with a completed coverage move-set after 3 levels with wild Audino in the same area. It's one of those very few mid-late game Pokemon that's not only good, but it can get going right out of the box.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  18. cant say

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    I seem to remember a point being made about not comparing pokemon. If something is good it should be in High tier. Just because something outclasses it doesn't mean it should be in a lower tier than the 'mon that is slightly better. I will admit that Drapion is good, Zoroark is also good (maybe slightly less) so they both go in the High tier. I really don't see how Zoro should be a mid tier 'mon
  19. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I had a similar experience as Katakiri when playing BW2 for the first time in English. Drapion swept the entire E4 by itself with a Hone Claws set and Ice Fang. I think I also used Aqua Tail, but I can't remember the specifics. Hone Claws/Crunch/Aqua Tail/Ice Fang, maybe?
  20. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    It should be noted that Zorua does have access to Snarl, so it is still offensively competent throughout the game until it gets Dark Pulse.

    As for Drapion, I'm inclined with Mid. It comes pretty late in the game, and none of its moves surpass 70 base power which isn't too great when you consider its decidedly average Attack stat. Needing to Hone Claws for a sweep is less efficient than just bludgeoning your way with high powered attacks: Scrafty, Krookodile and yes even Zoroark are better candidates for a Dark-type sweeper, partially due to their availability. Drapion does struggles with Fighting-types, just to throw it out there, while Scrafty and Krook can at least hit them with their alternate STAB while Zoroark can fool them with Illusion (which is fun as hell too).

    I've used Zorua, and I didn't need anything outside of STAB Snarl and Dig to beat up most of the opposition, even as a Zoroark (definitely want Dark Pulse and Flamethrower later though). With the high EXP gain, it hardly needs babying, if you can call it that. For the record, Zoroark's base 120 SpAtk using a 55 base power STAB move isn't too different from Drapion's 90 Atk using a 70 base power STAB move. Drapion does have more coverage options, but not until Level 40 (evolution), so if you ask me Skorupi requires more babying since it can't hit hard on its own off the bat (no STAB Night Slash even!).
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  21. TM13IceBeam

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    Zorua has never needed Snarl to be offensively competent; I don't see what's wrong with using Night Slash off 105 Atk. It's comparable to Drapion's Crunch, at any rate. Boosted exp turns the 5 levels until evolution into a complete joke, and L30 grants Zoroark the one move it'll be spamming for most of the rest of its career.
    cant say likes this.
  22. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Just going to chime in that I used Zoroark in my run through of W2 and while it wasn't a world beater running dual STABs of Night Slash / Snarl until I got more moves later on was quite effective. I think I ran a full dark type moveset up through around level 34 or so and even then had no complaints. The boosted exp. makes it really easy to train and, particularly since we're counting a 6 mon party (I actually ran 7 once i replaced Ebuzz with Metang late game), Zoroark can take out specific Pokemon and more than keep up witht he other levels of the party.
  23. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Alright, so I went ahead and updated the 'reservation' post (post #840). I know it's been a while, but I've been pretty busy the last couple of weeks. I haven't been able to add any more entries to the OP either due to this, and I will try to do that ASAP.

    Also, last time I promised a post regarding Pidove, which I completely forgot about. I apologize for that.

    After reading the posts regarding it, I see a stronger support towards High Tier for Pidove, so I'll let it be there for now. The same thing goes for the recent discussion about Zorua; the majority want it to still be High Tier, so that's what's gonna happen.

    Also, next week, on October 1st, I will begin writing ever single entry that hasn't been written yet myself. The reasoning behind this is because I personally don't want this to be unfinished after X and Y are released (and I doubt anyone else wants to work on it past that either). You're still welcome to reserve Pokémon and write entries while I do so, but just a heads up. This also means that you need to finish your entries ASAP, otherwise I'll write them myself. I will go for everything that's unreserved at first, but when those are done, I will move on to reserved stuff as well.

    Also, in regard to that post. If something is marked as done, it is done. Whether or not it's in the OP is irrelevant.

    Sorry for your extra hard work.

    Also, regarding Drapion, do you guys want Skorupi to be moved up to High Tier from Low? Let me know and I'll make it happen.

    Anyways, that's all from me. Right now my first priority is to finish an analysis in C&C, so I'm gonna go do that now. Until next time then.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
    cant say likes this.
  24. Mulan15262

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    I think I'll take another go at writing a pokemon, but this time I'll do it for Zubat.

    EDIT: It is done.

    [​IMG]
    Name:
    Zubat
    Availability: Zubat appears in Castelia Sewers, which you can enter before your third gym badge.
    Stats: Zubat has average stats across the board. Golbat has above average speed and average everywhere else. Crobat, though, has ridiculously high speed and slightly above average attack. All other stats are average.
    Typing: Poison/Flying. Defensively, weak to Rock, Ice, Electric, and Psychic while resisting Poison and having a double resist to fight, grass, and bug. Offensively, it is strong against Grass, Bug, Fight, while being resisted by Steel and Rock. Overall, it is average, putting it strong against Burgh and Marshall, but weak to Caitlin and being neutral with everyone else.
    Movepool: Decent, although mostly off of its weaker offensive stat in the late-game. It also lacks a physical poison STAB until after your 5th gym badge. Its only good physical STAB moves are Fly (HM), Acrobatics (level 33), and Cross Poison (Crobat level 1). It can also use Return and Bite (better than payback as Crobat outpaces almost everything else), plus a few tutor moves.
    Major Battles: Annihilates all the sewaddle, swadloon, and leavanny in the Castelia City gym and is a good choice against Marshall, but is easily defeated by Elesa and Caitlin and Colress's Steel-types. It can pull its own weight against other trainers, but it won't be a star.
    Additional Comments: It will outpace almost everything, but only has above average offensive stats and average bulk, so it will need all the power it can get. Its ability rarely has any effect, though.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  25. Stellar

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    I think a compromise on the Skorupi/Drapion position probably yields the most accurate result. Mid suggests that it is good, but not overly powerful which is accurate. Drapion isn't going to be OHKOing everything with a STAB move without set up—it has to rely a lot on super effective hits or set up Hone Claws to deal enough damage.

    I definitely wouldn't classify it as low based on my previous experience with it.
    DHR-107 and Punchshroom like this.

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