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Pokémon Diamond, Pearl & Platinum In-game Tier List Discussion

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by sin(pi), May 9, 2017.

  1. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Approved by DHR-107
    OP adapted from Its_A_Random's XY In-Game Tiers thread

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum Version
    In-Game Tier List Discussion​

    What is an in-game tier list?
    In-game tier lists rank Pokémon according to their usefulness during the main portion of the game — that is, until the credits roll for the first time. In-game tier lists provide players with the information needed to complete the game as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. For competitively-minded players, this approach to playing the game gives them more immediate access to useful items, TMs, and HMs.

    What are the tiers?
    In this in-game tier list there will be seven tiers (Or possibly more). Pokémon that are the most useful belong in the S-Tier, while Pokémon that are the least useful belong in the F-Tier. The tiers are as follows:

    - S-Tier
    - A-Tier
    - B-Tier
    - C-Tier
    - D-Tier
    - E-Tier
    - F-Tier

    Pokémon are tiered based on several factors:
    - Availability: When the Pokémon can be first found, and how rare. Earlier Pokémon tend to rank higher.
    - Typing: What is the Pokémon's typing and how useful it is in the game. More useful typings tend to rank higher.
    - Stats: What their base stats are like and how they contribute to a team. Pokémon with better stats for in-game runs tend to rank higher.
    - Movepool: What the Pokémon's movepool is like and how it contributes to a team. Pokémon with wider and more useful movepools tend to rank higher.
    - Major Battles: How the Pokémon fares against key match-ups in the game. Pokémon who perform better against more major battles tend to rank higher.
    - Other: Other aesthetics like abilities, levels, can minorly contribute to a Pokémon's tiering as well. Note that a Pokémon's physical appearance has no impact on its tiering!

    Basically, Pokémon who are ranked higher in the tier list tend to be found earlier in the game (or at a higher level), can win more match-ups from the game's various trainers (including the Gym Leaders, the Elite Four, and Team Galactic), and have stronger movepools (usually being able to learn more TMs, HMs, and Level-up moves). They may have other useful qualities, such as more useful abilities, faster growth, or self-healing moves.

    Note that tier descriptors are just a guideline, they are not meant as laws to be strictly enforced.

    Which Pokémon are available in Pokémon Diamond Version, Pokémon Pearl Version, and Pokémon Platinum Version?
    (very much wip - I'd appreciate some assistance with this)
    These three games added 107 (check) new Pokémon to the franchise, and the game's Pokédex itself contains 150 Pokémon (210 in Platinum), ranging from the newly discovered to classics such as Abra and Gastly. Below, you can find a list of locations as well as the Pokémon that appear in each location. These locations are listed in the order they can be accessed in the game (though you may have to backtrack to get to them, eg Fuego Ironworks). Routes and Pokémon that only appear in the post-game are omitted from this list. A Pokémon is only listed in the area in which it first appears in the wild. All in-game trades and gifts are listed.

    Availability (CONTAINS SPOILERS) (open)

    The following information contains spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled, look away now!

    So far this is only complete for Platinum
    LEGEND
    [G] = This Pokémon is given to you by a NPC (possibly as an Egg).
    [IN] = This Pokémon is an interactable encounter.
    [T] = This Pokémon is obtained via in-game trade.
    [D] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon Diamond.
    [D*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon Diamond only.
    [P] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon Pearl.
    [P*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon Pearl only.
    [Pt] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon Platinum.
    [Pt*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon Platinum only.

    Show Hide
    Route 201: Turtwig [G], Chimchar [G], Piplup [G]
    Route 201 (after capture tutorial): Starly, Bidoof, Kricketot
    Route 202: Shinx
    Old rod: Magikarp
    Route 204 south: Budew, Wurmple, Zubat
    Ravaged Path: Psyduck
    Route 203: Abra
    Oreburgh Gate: Geodude
    Oreburgh City: Abra [T]
    Route 207: Machop, Ponyta
    Oreburgh Mine: Onix (along with Steelix, if yes trade)
    ===GYM 1===
    VALLEY WINDWORKS: Buizel, Pachirisu, Shellos
    Honey trees: Aipom, Heracross, Burmy, Combee, Cherubi
    Note that the first Munchlax tree can range from this point to after Surf becomes usable.
    VALLEY WINDWORKS (after defeating Mars): Drifloon [IN]
    ETERNA FOREST: Gastly, Hoothoot, Buneary
    ETERNA CITY - Chatot [T]
    UNDERGROUND - Shieldon [P/Pt] [Fossil], Cranidos [D/Pt] [Fossil]
    Route 211 west: Meditite, Chingling, Bronzor
    Mt. Coronet 1F: Cleffa, Nosepass [Pt]
    ===GYM 2===
    Old Chateau: Rotom [Pt]
    Eterna City (after defeating Jupiter): Togepi [Pt][G]
    Route 206: Gligar [Pt]
    WAYWARD CAVE: Gible [Pt*]
    Route 208: Ralts [Pt]
    Hearthome CITY: Eevee [Pt][G]
    ===GYM 3===
    Route 209: Chansey, Duskull [Pt], Spiritomb [IN] (if yes trade)
    Good rod: Goldeen, Barboach, Finneon
    Solaceon Ruins: Unown
    Route 210 south: Scyther [Pt]
    Route 215: Lickitung [Pt], Marill
    Veilstone City: Porygon [Pt][G]
    Route 214: Rhyhorn [Pt], Houndour [Pt]
    Ruin Maniac Cave: Hippopotas
    Valor Lakefront: Girafarig
    Route 213: Remoraid, Wingull
    Route 212 south: Quagsire, Croagunk
    Trophy Garden: Pichu
    Great Marsh: Tangela [Pt], Yanma [Pt], Tropius [Pt], Skorupi, Carnivine
    ===GYM 4===
    ===GYM 5===
    Route 210 north: Swablu [Pt]
    Surf: Tentacool
    Route 221: Sudowoodo [Pt*]
    Fuego Ironworks: Magnemite [Pt], Magmar [Pt]
    Route 218: Mr. Mime [Pt*]
    Iron Island: Steelix (if no trade), Riolu [G]
    ===GYM 6===
    Mt. Coronet B1F: Feebas
    Route 216: Sneasel, Snorunt [Pt], Snover
    Route 217: Swinub [Pt]
    SNOWPOINT CITY: - Haunter [T]
    ===GYM 7===
    Mt. Coronet mountainside: Absol [Pt]
    Distortion World: Giratina [Pt][IN]
    Lake Acuity: Uxie [IN]
    Lake Valor: Azelf [IN]
    Lake Verity: Mesprit [roaming]
    Route 222: Electabuzz [Pt]
    Route 223: Mantyke



    Untiered Pokémon
    Untiered (open)
    Cresselia - Not available until Postgame
    Heatran - Not available until Postgame
    Giratina (D/P), Dialga/Palkia (Pt) - Not available until Postgame
    Any other Pokémon not obtainable before beating the Champion, or that can only be obtained via earlier Generations or Events.


    What is, and what is not being tiered?
    A Pokémon that is not being tiered is not being so if:
    -They come from an event
    -They cannot be captured/obtained until the postgame
    -They cannot be caught in-game

    Trade Evolution
    Pokémon with trade evolutions will be tiered separately, one entry for "with trading" and one for "without". If both with and without are classed in the same tier after most things are tiered, they may be merged.

    Current Rankings
    These can be found in the next few posts. Note that Platinum will initially have a separate tier list; this may be merged if the two lists are sufficiently similar.

    Formatting
    Use the following format when submitting a write-up for a Pokémon:

    [IMG]<Sprite URL>[/IMG]
    [B]Name
    Availability:[/B] When does this Pokémon become available? Is it easy or hard to encounter and catch?
    [B]Stats:[/B] Describe how a Pokémon's stats make it excel. Is it a deadly sweeper or a strong wall? Discuss why you would use this Pokemon thank to its stats.
    [B]Typing:[/B] Discuss this Pokémon's typing in a sentence or two. Is its STAB efficient or not, does it have any great resistances or glaring weaknesses?
    [B]Movepool:[/B] Describe this Pokémon's movepool in a few sentences. Does it have many effective movepool options through level up? Is it overreliant on TMs to function? Does it have access to useful HM's to help you traverse the region?
    [B]Major Battles:[/B] Describe how the Pokémon handles the major opponents throughout the game. Notable opponents and battles include the Gym Leaders, battles against various (named) members of Team Galactic, the various rival battles, the Elite Four themselves, and the Champion. Try to avoid spoilers if possible!
    [B]Additional Comments:[/B] Discuss any miscellaneous information not covered in other sections here. Factors such as experience growth, abilities, and other lesser characteristics can be discussed here, as well as (opportunity) cost - does it require constant healing, highly sought-after TMs (eg Earthquake), or expensive Game Corner items, for example? The entry can be wrapped up here as well.

    Please write professionally.

    Some guidelines to follow:
    - No glitches allowed.
    - No trading in Pokémon from other games. For back-and-forth trading to evolve Haunter, Kadabra, etc., read above.
    - We do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on its performance relative to another Pokémon. It does not matter if Pokémon X does the same thing better than Pokémon Y; if both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such. (e.g. Ponyta should be E-Tier, because Chimchar does its job way better)
    - [placeholder re underground Spiritomb] - resetting for odd/even TID in Pt to get Cranidos/Shieldon is fine because it takes like 2 minutes, this should be noted in their writeups though
    - Have fun!

    Feel free to dispute and discuss other users submissions, but please, no flaming. Normal forum rules apply here. Finally, this is not the place to talk about the games in general.

    This will be done in a few phases. First, initial tiering and placing, then writing up the entries, then finally reviewing placings and write-ups. Then we will attempt to get it on-site.

    Resources
    http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/dpp_ingametiers
    http://www.smogon.com/ingame/misc/dpp_plat_ingametiers
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  2. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    DIAMOND AND PEARL

    Current Rankings (S-Tier, A-Tier, B-Tier)


    S-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon who possess the highest levels of efficiency of the available options in the Pokémon Diamond & Pearl versions. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO an overwhelming majority of opponents, limiting the amount of attacks used against them, and possess minimal reliance on items to help assist them defeat opponents at like levels. These Pokémon typically show up before the late-game and any flaws they have are absolutely made up by their advantages.
    Pokémon (open)
    Abra (Trade)
    Bidoof
    Chimchar
    Starly



    A-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be very high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a lot of opponents and are not very reliant on items to succeed, but either have some visible flaws that hurt their efficiency or have their usefulness counterbalanced by a late arrival.
    Pokémon (open)
    Abra (No trade)
    Azelf
    Budew
    Buizel
    Cranidos (Diamond only)
    Dialga
    Gastly (trade)
    Palkia
    Piplup
    Shinx
    Turtwig
    Zubat


    B-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a fair chunk of opponents and may have a bit of item reliance to assist in sweeping opponents. These Pokémon are still very useful but either have several visible flaws holding them back or come fairly late.
    Pokémon (open)
    Gastly (no trade)
    Machop (yes trade)
    Magikarp
    Marill
    Meditite
    Psyduck
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  3. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    DIAMOND AND PEARL

    Current Rankings (C-Tier to F-Tier)


    C-Tier
    : Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be moderately high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a reasonable portion of opponents but are matchup-based enough to need some item reliance to assist in sweeping some opponents. These Pokémon are useful but either have several visible flaws holding them back or barely make up for their late arrivals.
    Pokémon (open)
    Bronzor
    Clefairy
    Croagunk
    Geodude (yes trade)
    Machop (no trade)
    Misdreavus
    Murkrow
    Ponyta


    D-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be average. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a small amount of opponents and tend to be matchup-based enough to need item reliance to assist in sweeping a few opponents. The usefulness of these Pokémon are typically counterbalanced by many visible flaws or are useful Pokémon that come very late.
    Pokémon (open)
    Buneary
    Chatot
    Drifloon
    Geodude (no trade)
    Gible
    Girafarig
    Hoothoot
    Mime Jr.
    Pikachu
    Remoraid
    Shellos
    Sneasel
    Uxie


    E-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be low. Pokémon in this tier are generally only able to OHKO or 2HKO specific opponents and suffer from being matchup-based, generally relying on items to assist in sweeping several opponents. These Pokémon either have flaws that outshine its strengths or are otherwise decent Pokémon that come too late to be of any major use.
    Pokémon (open)
    Barboach
    Bonsly
    Carnivine
    Chingling
    Finneon
    Geodude (no trade)
    Glameow
    Goldeen
    Hippopotas
    Kricketot
    Onix (yes trade)
    Pachirisu
    Riolu
    Skorupi
    Snover
    Spiritomb ("trade")
    Steelix (no trade)
    Stunky
    Tentacool
    Wingull
    Wooper
    Wurmple (Beautifly)
    Wurmple (Dustox)


    F-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon who possess the worst efficiency of those available in Pokémon Diamond & Pearl irrespective of their availability. These Pokémon outright lose a lot of 1v1 matchups at like levels unless they are assisted with significant item support, or are otherwise ridiculously inefficient to capture. The flaws of these Pokémon completely mask whatever advantage they could possibly have and hence, should never be considered seriously for an efficient run-through of Pokémon Diamond & Pearl.
    Pokémon (open)
    Aipom
    Burmy (Mothim)
    Burmy (plant Wormadam)
    Burmy (sandy Wormadam)
    Burmy (trash Wormadam)
    Cherubi
    Combee
    Feebas
    Happiny
    Heracross
    Mantyke
    Mespirit
    Munchlax
    Onix (no trade)
    Shieldon
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  4. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    PLATINUM

    Current Rankings (S-Tier, A-Tier, B-Tier)


    S-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon who possess the highest levels of efficiency of the available options in Pokémon Platinum version. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO an overwhelming majority of opponents, limiting the amount of attacks used against them, and possess minimal reliance on items to help assist them defeat opponents at like levels. These Pokémon typically show up before the late-game and any flaws they have are absolutely made up by their advantages.
    Pokémon (open)
    Abra (trade)
    Bidoof
    Chimchar
    Starly


    A-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be very high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a lot of opponents and are not very reliant on items to succeed, but either have some visible flaws that hurt their efficiency or have their usefulness counterbalanced by a late arrival.
    Pokémon (open)
    Abra (no trade)
    Azelf
    Budew
    Buizel
    Cranidos
    Eevee (Jolteon)
    Gastly (trade)
    Gible
    Giratina
    Magikarp
    Piplup
    Scyther (trade)
    Shinx
    Turtwig
    Zubat


    B-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a fair chunk of opponents and may have a bit of item reliance to assist in sweeping opponents. These Pokémon are still very useful but either have several visible flaws holding them back or come fairly late.
    Pokémon (open)
    Eevee (Espeon)
    Eevee (Vaporeon)
    Gastly (no trade)
    Gligar
    Houndour
    Ralts (Gallade)
    Ralts (Gardevoir)
    Rotom
    Psyduck
    Scyther (no trade)
    Sneasel
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  5. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    PLATINUM

    Current Rankings (C-Tier to F-Tier)


    C-Tier
    : Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be moderately high. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a reasonable portion of opponents but are matchup-based enough to need some item reliance to assist in sweeping some opponents. These Pokémon are useful but either have several visible flaws holding them back or barely make up for their late arrivals.
    Pokémon (open)
    Bronzor
    Croagunk
    Eevee (Leafeon)
    Eevee (Flareon)
    Geodude (trade)
    Machop (trade)
    Magmar (trade)
    Magnemite
    Meditite
    Ponyta
    Porygon (trade)
    Rhyhorn (trade)
    Yanma


    D-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be average. Pokémon in this tier are able to OHKO or 2HKO a small amount of opponents and tend to be matchup-based enough to need item reliance to assist in sweeping a few opponents. The usefulness of these Pokémon are typically counterbalanced by many visible flaws or are useful Pokémon that come very late.
    Pokémon (open)
    Absol
    Buneary
    Cleffa
    Drifloon
    Electabuzz (trade)
    Hoothoot
    Magmar (no trade)
    Machop (no trade)
    Marill
    Pi(ka)chu
    Remoraid
    Shellos
    Snorunt (Froslass)
    Tangela


    E-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon whose efficiency in terms of completing the game is considered to be low. Pokémon in this tier are generally only able to OHKO or 2HKO specific opponents and suffer from being matchup-based, generally relying on items to assist in sweeping several opponents. These Pokémon either have flaws that outshine its strengths or are otherwise decent Pokémon that come too late to be of any major use.
    Pokémon (open)
    Barboach
    Carnivine
    Chansey
    Chatot
    Chingling
    Duskull (trade)
    Eevee (Glaceon)
    Eevee (Umbreon)
    Electabuzz (no trade)
    Finneon
    Geodude (no trade)
    Girafarig
    Goldeen
    Hippopotas
    Kricketot
    Lickitung
    Mr. Mime
    Nosepass
    Onix (trade)
    Pachirisu
    Quagsire (note that Quagsire is easier to catch than Wooper)
    Rhyhorn (no trade)
    Riolu
    Skorupi
    Snorunt (Glalie)
    Snover
    Spiritomb ("trade")
    Steelix (no trade)
    Sudowoodo
    Swablu
    Swinub
    Tentacool
    Togepi
    Tropius
    Uxie
    Wingull
    Wurmple (Beautifly)
    Wurmple (Dustox)


    F-Tier: Reserved for Pokémon who possess the worst efficiency of those available in Pokémon Platinum irrespective of their availability. These Pokémon outright lose a lot of 1v1 matchups at like levels unless they are assisted with significant item support. The flaws of these Pokémon completely mask whatever advantage they could possibly have and hence, should never be considered seriously for an efficient run-through of Pokémon Platinum.
    Pokémon (open)
    Aipom
    Burmy (Mothim)
    Burmy (plant Wormadam)
    Burmy (sandy Wormadam)
    Burmy (trash Wormadam)
    Cherubi
    Combee
    Duskull (no trade)
    Feebas
    Heracross
    Mantyke
    Mesprit
    Munchlax
    Onix (no trade)
    Porygon (no trade)
    Shieldon
    Unown
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  6. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    reserved just in case

    You may post!

    So these games doesn't seem to have a forum thread. The rankings on the site are fairly good but they lack a lot of detail. I'd like to get those improved and also have the rankings perfected.
  7. Karxrida

    Karxrida Sorcerous Prince
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    5,055
    Giratina should not listed as untiered in the masterpost unless it's specified as the Diamond and Pearl one. You can get it from the forced encounter in Platinum.

    Starly for S. While its Gym matchups are a mixed bag, it comes early, gets a strong STAB in Wing Attack at Level 9, and carries its weight in the field. Getting Intimidate upon evolution at Level 14 is also a sweet asset and Staratpor speaks for itself.

    Bidoof for A or maybe S. It's the HM Slave, and it's found in the games where you need like 5 HMs to get anywhere.

    What should we do with Spiritomb? It's still possible to get with an exploit and its stats and typing aren't terrible, but it still requires 2 games and getting it is the definition of inefficient.
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  8. pika pal

    pika pal
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,203
    The thing about Spiritomb is that the things required to get it are time and an extra game, but it's also obtainable fairly early (before Maylene regardless of version) if you play with that exploit, and doesn't require backtracking or such. I'd say if we can rank trades, Spiritomb's exploit is fair game to grant for its obtainability.

    I assume Rotom (Pt) is going to be ranked on base form only (key being event locked), in which case I'd say it can start around B Rank.
    [​IMG]

    Availability: Obtainable before the second Gym, only condition is encountering at night. Comes at Level 15, a little below the curve for Gardenia but not too much work to bring up to speed.

    Stats: Most stats floating around Base 90-95. High for when it's first obtained, and lasts a fair while before falling below the curve.

    Typing: Ghost/Electric with Levitate gives 3 notable immunities and some fairly useful resistances against important opponents (Poison, Bug, Steel) that are unfortunately marred by a surprisingly common Dark weakness. STABs have pretty decent coverage

    Movepool: Learns Shock Wave at a fairly reasonable Level 22 and Ominous Wind at 29, while the Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt TMs are available early-midgame for him if you can make the Game Corner detour for the latter. Outside Secret Power though, nothing else of particular note for the main game.

    Major Battles:
    - Handles Crasher Wake (despite Electric immunity, Quagsire can't touch him) and Maylene very well, though Fantina comes a bit early for his Ghost STAB unless he's a bit power leveled.
    - Byron eats his hits easy, Candice he only does much against Medicham, and Volkner is so-so with Ghost STAB but fearing Crunch from Luxray.
    - Against the Elite Four,
    -- He fares well against Aaron (Beautifly has Shadow ball, Drapion only has Ice Fang for Neutral damage)
    -- Falls flat on Bertha since even with Ghost STAB, several mons have Dark moves or just strong neutral hits
    -- Flint is neutral, wouldn't count this in his favor
    -- Lucian goes fine, though needs to make sure to outspeed and OHKO, which might be tricky on Alakazam and Espeon
    -- Champion he beats Milotic and Togekiss, everything else is shaky either directly (Spiritomb) or just in general (Garchomp)
    - Galactic is a mixed bag, as he zaps the multitude of Zubats and Flying types like Cyrus's Gyarados and Honchkrow, but in turn has to be wary of their own Dark type moves if they outspeed.
    -- Barry he beats Staraptor and whatever Water type he has, anything else is dangerous to try.

    Comments: So Rotom is obtainable early and gets quick access to some decently strong STAB moves with acceptable coverage, but his main issues are that those are ALL he gets for the most part outside Secret Power, which often doesn't help with those resisting his STABs. Thunderbolt requires the use of the Game Corner for early access to use against Wake, and the one easy one is from Surfing at Valley Windworks, while Shadow Ball probably won't conflict with anything you'd run alongside him (ergo other Ghost types). His problem with Ground Types can be alleviated to some extent by one of the HM carriers given Surf's power and prevalence, but this is more in a general context and doesn't change the fact Rotom itself has some serious issues with such. It makes a decent crutch to lean on for a while after it's obtainable, and it's not outright terrible after that period, but it's not going to carry the game.
    Karxrida likes this.
  9. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    Good catch; I play D/P a lot more than Platinum so I completely blanked on that. Edited!
    Agree with both of these - Bidoof for S because it makes your life infinitely easier, and you can even be cool and sweep with Simple Curse in Platinum if you're weird! Starly is the best mon in the game in terms of how useful it is throughout, and I don't think it's even close (with the possible exception of 'nape).

    Spiritomb can certainly be ranked, its ranking just needs to take into account how time-consuming it is to obtain.
    ^^
    As for performance, I can see it being decent - similar to Rotom, in fact, though hampered by its low speed rather than middling bulk.

    B-Rank is fine, yeah. Rotom is really good early game and Discharge is an excellent move late game if it comes to that. I'll edit this (plus more tentative rankings and sprites!) in from my computer, stay tuned.
    Karxrida likes this.
  10. OrangeGuru

    OrangeGuru

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    181
    Having just played through Platinum again and wanting to try some of the new evolutions from that gen (Gallade, gliscor, Froslass, etc), I'll weigh in on one in particular - Nosepass/Probopass (I may do others later).

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Availability: Nosepass is available at level 14 in Mt. Coronet right before the 2nd gym in the small section to the east of Eterna City (aka Mt. Coronet - Center) or you can get a level 18 Nosepass after beating the 2nd gym and entering Mt. Coronet - South near Oreburgh City. However, it is just a 5% encounter, so it can be annoying to find even if it has a catch rate of 255.

    Stats: Base-wise, Nosepass is a mixed wall with 135 defense and 90 special defense, but it has a measly speed of 30 and offenses that are not great either at 45 apiece.

    Typing: Rock typing is very average for Nosepass, but upon evolving it gains a Steel subtyping, which helps tremendously for making Probopass a defensive tank. Rock/Steel gives 1 immunity to a common type (Poison) and a whopping 9 resists (including two 4x resists), but also leaves Probopass with two 4x weaknesses to ground and fighting.

    Movepool: Nosepass's movepool is where it starts to get downgraded in my opinion. It is stuck without a special STAB (Probopass's higher attack stat) until either Flash Cannon TM from the 6th gym or Power Gem at Level 49. 18 levels (13 to 31) separate Rock Throw and Rock Slide - the only attacking moves Nosepass learns through level up - and they both only have 90% accuracy, meaning they will miss far more than you want coming off of a low attack stat. However, not all is lost as Nosepass does get useful status moves, such as Thunder Wave, Block, Magnet Rise (Move Relearner or Snowpoint Move Tutor - requires shards) and Toxic (TM). Nosepass/Probopass also learns Strength and Rock Smash, so it can function as a decent HM user.

    Major Battles: Nosepass honestly struggles with a large majority of major battles. It struggles with Gardenia (if you get the level 14 Nosepass), Maylene, Wake (especially if you haven't evolved yet), Byron (immune to toxic and thunder wave), Bertha, and most of Lucian and Flint. Cynthia is usually too much to handle unless you really over-level. The only battles Nosepass can handle are Candice (although Piloswine is a no-go) and Aaron, as well as most of Team Galatic. Lastly, the rival is also unfavorable for Nosepass/Probopass. Most of the rival's pokemon have ground or fighting coverage which eats Probopass alive (Staraptor, Heracross, Snorlax, Torterra, Infernape, Floatzel); the only decent matchup is Rapidash.

    Additional Comments: While it has a normal experience curve, the lack of high powered moves or attacking stats makes it a pain to train. The majority of TMs you might want to give it (Earthquake, Thunder/bolt, Stone Edge) are typically better served on other members of your team. It is also a minor inconvenience, but Nosepass has an odd evolution method (level up in Mt. Coronet) that first-time players may not know about. All in all, despite some useful utility moves like Block and good defensive stats, Nosepass is just too difficult to constantly train and keep up with the rest of a team because of low attacking stats and speed and getting Power Gem too late to be useful. Nosepass for E rank
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
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  11. HotFuzzBall

    HotFuzzBall im bored now
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    889
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Availability: Budew is available very early in both games at Route 204 (North of Jubilife City). If Budew is too much of hassle for you to train, Roselia is found in Route 212 (Marshlands to the West of Pastoria City). In order to evolve Roselia into a Roserade, you need a Shiny Stone which can be found at the end of the Iron Islands.

    Stats: All 3 of these Pokemon have really good Special Defense, with Roselia and Roserade having great Speed and Special Attack as well. All 3 have low HP and Defense so physical attacks can be troublesome for them.

    Typing: The Budew line is probably one of the only good Grass-types, if you did not choose Turtwig, in the game that's available early on. Grass / Poison is very solid, most notably it helps against Water-types (there are quite a few water routes in the game). The typing provides 4 resistances, with three of the types (Grass, Electric, Water) are usually specially offensive which compliments their special bulk. Grass isn't the best defensive typing, they will most likely struggle (or not be useful) once you make your way to Snowpoint City due to the commonality of Ice-types. Flying and Psychic-types are also relatively common throughout the game as well, thought Fire-types are quite rare in DP with only Ponyta and Chimchar to worry about.

    Movepool: Roserade has access to quite a few solid moves. Budew doesn't receive many important moves, so evolving it into a Roselia is a must. Budew does get access to Mega Drain at Level 13 which is pretty nice as well. If you manage to evolve Budew into Roselia before level 10, Roselia will have access to both Leech Seed and Stun Spore which can help against harder battles, such as Mars's Purugly. However, Roselia has low BP moves (the highest is Giga Drain with a BP of 60), until it learns Petal Dance at Level 40. Petal Dance isn't too great since it locks you into the move, and it causes confusion. Also I'm sure not many people would want to level up their Roselia to level 40 anyways. When Roselia evolves into Roserade, the only notable move it learns is Weather Ball through the Move Rememberer which can help provide neutral coverage for it. As for TMs, Grass Knot can be useful against heavier foes such as Hippowdon, Sludge Bomb is available fairly late in the game (it's found inside the Galactic Warehouse), Shadow Ball also helps provide another neutral coverage option since Ghost is a pretty good offensive type. Energy Ball is available in the post game so that's not an option at the moment.

    Major Battles:
    • Roark - Budew / Roselia has the type advantage, and should learn Mega Drain by now so this battle should be really easy.
    • Gardenia - A 4x resistance to Grass will make the battle against Cherrim / Cherubi and Turtwig easy, moreso if Roselia has Poison Sting. Roserade could be a little bit tricky with Stun Spore but, it shouldn't be too difficult.
    • Maylene - Is able to 1v1 Machoke, and maybe Meditite since Confusion doesn't do much. Not recommended against Lucario since Roselia won't have any super-effective coverage and Lucario has Bone Rush and Metal Claw to deal pretty decent damage back.
    • Crasher Wake - Should be an easy battle, Gyarados could be problematic (especially in DP since Gyarados has Dragon Rage and Swagger) but it shouldn't be too difficult. Only thing to be careful about is Floatzel's Ice Fang since it will definitely outspeed Roselia.
    • Fantina - not recommended to use Roserade here. In DP Drifblim and Gengar resist Roselia's Grass-type moves and Mismagius has Psybeam to deal decent damage. In Platinum, Roselia could potentially stall out Duskull with Leech Seed, but it is not recommended to send it in on Mismagius and Haunter for the above reasons.
    • Byron - By now you should have the Shiny Stone to evolve Roserade. Roserade could potentially duel Steelix since it is neutral to Grass but, it has Ice Fang. Bastiodon can be dueled pretty easily (especially in DP since its only damaging moves are Flash Cannon and Ancient Power) but, it could be tricky in Platinum since it has Metal Burst.
    • Candace - Will not be helpful here, could maybe pick up a KO on Candace's Piloswine in Platinum though.
    • Volkner - Pretty easy since Roserade resists Electric, just be careful of Electivire's Giga Impact and Luxray's Ice Fang in Platinum. In DP, Volkner should be very easy for Roserade since there isn't any super effective coverage it has to worry about.
    • Galactic - Roselia / Roserade will probably won't be useful unless it's to stall out the foe with Leech Seed. The commonality of Zubat, Bronzor, Kadabra, Stunky, Beautifly, Dustox won't be too hot for Roselia / Roserade.
    • Elite 4 - Roserade will be fantastic against Bertha... that's about it really :/ In DP, Roserade can KO Cynthia's Gastrodon. Not recommended to 1v1 Cynthia's Milotic since it has Ice Beam and Mirror Coat.
    Additional Comments: Budew is a very solid choice if you want a Grass-type on your team due to its early access. It can be difficult to evolve since happiness evolution can be tedious and the Shiny Stone won't be available for a while. However, Budew's early access should make it easier to evolve it into a Roselia ASAP. Roselia will most likely only have Grass-STAB until you find Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball later on (Weather Ball once you evolve it into Roserade), which can be problematic at times. Budew is actually pretty easy to train because of Absorb which prevents you from having to go back and forth to the Pokemon Center to heal up, also its early access to Mega Drain is pretty nifty. Overall, being one of the only good Grass-types early on (besides Turtwig) probably warrants both of them to share a rank, therefore I nominate Budew for A rank for both DP and Platinum.
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
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  12. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    I'm not very good at analyzing stuff that's too multifaceted and subjective. However, I did play Platinum, and I did catch almost every Pokemon available in the wild, so I thought the least I could do was help you finish the locations guide. Note that it contains Platinum information only, so someone else needs to fill this out for DP. The order these locations become accessible is also specific to Platinum.

    LEGEND
    [G] = This Pokémon is given to you by a NPC (possibly as an Egg).
    [IN] = This Pokémon is an interactable encounter.
    [T] = This Pokémon is obtained via in-game trade.
    [Pt] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon Pearl. (by the way, this is a typo on the original post)
    [Pt*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon Pearl only.

    Show Hide
    Route 201: Turtwig [G], Chimchar [G], Piplup [G]
    Route 201 (after capture tutorial): Starly, Bidoof, Kricketot
    Route 202: Shinx
    Old rod: Magikarp
    Route 204 south: Budew, Wurmple, Zubat
    Ravaged Path: Psyduck
    Route 203: Abra
    Oreburgh Gate: Geodude
    Oreburgh City: Abra [T] (delete this; Abra can be found earlier)
    Route 207: Machop, Ponyta
    Oreburgh Mine: Onix (along with Steelix, if yes trade)
    ===GYM 1===
    VALLEY WINDWORKS: Buizel, Pachirisu, Shellos
    Honey trees: Aipom, Heracross, Burmy, Combee, Cherubi
    Note that the first Munchlax tree can range from this point to after surf becomes usable.
    VALLEY WINDWORKS (after defeating Mars): Drifloon [IN]
    ETERNA FOREST: Gastly, Hoothoot, Buneary
    ETERNA CITY - Chatot [T]
    UNDERGROUND - Shieldon [P/Pt] [Fossil], Cranidos [D/Pt] [Fossil]
    Route 211 west: Meditite, Chingling, Bronzor
    Mt. Coronet 1F: Cleffa, Nosepass [Pt]
    ===GYM 2===
    Old Chateau: Gastly (delete this; Gastly can be found earlier), Rotom [Pt]
    Eterna City (after defeating Jupiter): Togepi [Pt][G]
    Route 206: Gligar [Pt]
    WAYWARD CAVE: Gible [Pt*]
    Route 208: Ralts [Pt]
    Hearthome CITY: Eevee [Pt][G]
    ===GYM 3===
    Route 209: Chansey, Duskull [Pt], Spiritomb [IN] (if yes trade)
    Good rod: Goldeen, Barboach, Finneon
    Solaceon Ruins: Unown
    Route 210 south: Scyther [Pt]
    Route 215: Lickitung [Pt], Marill
    Veilstone City: Porygon [Pt][G]
    Route 214: Rhyhorn [Pt], Houndour [Pt]
    Ruin Maniac Cave: Hippopotas
    Valor Lakefront: Girafarig
    Route 213: Remoraid, Wingull
    Route 212 south: Quagsire, Croagunk
    Trophy Garden: Pichu
    Great Marsh: Tangela [Pt], Yanma [Pt], Tropius [Pt], Skorupi, Carnivine
    ===GYM 4===
    ===GYM 5===
    Route 210 north: Swablu [Pt]
    Surf: Tentacool
    Route 221: Sudowoodo [Pt*]
    Fuego Ironworks: Magnemite [Pt], Magmar [Pt]
    Route 218: Mr. Mime [Pt*]
    Iron Island: Steelix (if no trade), Riolu [G]
    ===GYM 6===
    Mt. Coronet B1F: Feebas
    Route 216: Sneasel, Snorunt [Pt], Snover
    Route 217: Swinub [Pt]
    SNOWPOINT CITY: - Haunter [T] (delete this; Gastly can be found earlier)
    ===GYM 7===
    Mt. Coronet mountainside: Absol [Pt]
    Distortion World: Giratina [Pt][IN]
    Lake Acuity: Uxie [IN]
    Lake Valor: Azelf [IN]
    Lake Verity: Mesprit [roaming]
    Route 222: Electabuzz [Pt]
    Route 223: Mantyke


    From what I'm seeing right now, it looks like you're starting from scratch, and it's taking six paragraphs to rank each evolution family. I think it would be more efficient to initially rank evolution families based on the rankings they have on the Smogon guide, and then have people discuss a Pokemon only when they want it to change rank.
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
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  13. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    385
    From what I'm seeing right now, it looks like you're starting from scratch, and it's taking six paragraphs to rank each evolution family. I think it would be more efficient to initially rank evolution families based on the rankings they have on the Smogon guide, and then have people discuss a Pokemon only when they want it to change rank. These are the ranks that I think Pokemon should start with. (my own experience, as well as the Smogon guide, was used for the Platinum ranks)

    Diamond and Pearl tiers
    Show Hide
    Scroll up

    Platinum tiers (changed after discussion about Tentacool and realizing that lateness doesn't matter as much as I thought)
    Show Hide
    Pt S tier
    Abra (yes trade)
    Starly
    Chimchar
    Gible
    Bidoof
    Magikarp
    Shinx
    Piplup
    Turtwig
    Gastly (yes trade)

    Pt A tier
    Machop (yes trade)
    Zubat
    Geodude (yes trade)
    Cranidos
    Buizel
    Budew
    Abra (no trade)
    Ponyta
    Scyther (no trade)
    Eevee (Jolteon)
    Onix (yes trade)
    Giratina
    Psyduck
    Ralts (Gallade)

    Pt B tier
    Ralts (Gardevoir)
    Houndour
    Rhyhorn (yes trade)
    Rotom
    Eevee (Espeon)
    Togepi
    Aipom
    Eevee (Vaporeon)
    Eevee (Glaceon)
    Gligar
    Yanma
    Buneary
    Eevee (Leafeon)
    Scyther (yes trade)
    Heracross

    Pt C tier
    Azelf
    Porygon (yes trade)
    Drifblim
    Gastly (no trade)
    Meditite
    Bronzor
    Shellos
    Cleffa
    Eevee (Flareon)
    Pichu
    Croagunk
    Hoothoot
    Nosepass
    Cherubi
    Munchlax

    Pt D tier
    Chansey
    Machop (no trade)
    Chingling
    Wurmple (Beautifly)
    Skorupi
    Sneasel
    Magnemite
    Spiritomb (yes trade)
    Eevee (Umbreon)
    Kricketot
    Chatot
    Hippopotas
    Rhyhorn (no trade)
    Duskull (yes trade)
    Tangela
    Combee
    Shieldon
    Magmar (yes trade)

    Pt E tier
    Geodude (no trade)
    Wurmple (Dustox)
    Swinub
    Onix (no trade)
    Pachirisu
    Girafarig
    Wingull
    Uxie
    Burmy (Mothim)
    Lickitung
    Marill
    Tentacool
    Electabuzz (yes trade)
    Burmy (plant Wormadam)
    Burmy (sandy Wormadam)
    Snorunt (Froslass)
    Mesprit
    Riolu

    Pt F tier
    Feebas
    Finneon
    Goldeen
    Mr. Mime
    Burmy (trash Wormadam)
    Barboach
    Remoraid
    Tropius
    Quagsire (note that Quagsire is easier to catch than Wooper)
    Carnivine
    Swablu
    Absol
    Magmar (no trade)
    Sudowoodo
    Snorunt (Glalie)
    Snover
    Mantyke
    Steelix (no trade)
    Duskull (no trade)
    Unown
    Electabuzz (no trade)
    Porygon (no trade)

    Pt untiered
    Misdreavus
    Murkrow
    Glameow
    Stunky
    Dialga
    Palkia
    Manaphy
    Explanations for my unusually high ratings for Zubat and Psyduck will be posted sometime in the next few weeks.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  14. Roseguardin

    Roseguardin formerly skywardsword596

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    309
    To do show/hide, put whatever goes inside in between these tags [hide.] [/hide] (remove the period, that's just for demonstration). You can put hide= whatever you want so it has a name for what's inside.
  15. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Chansey family
    Availability:
    In DP, a Happiny egg can be received in Hearthome City. Getting a Blissey in Pt is slightly harder, as it involves finding a Chansey in tall grass on Routes 209 or 210. It has a 5% chance to appear in both locations and is slightly annoying to catch (unless you use taunt or something). Because it only requires the player to defeat a level 22 (DP) 27 (Pt) NPC, it's obtainable very early in the game. Once caught, it should be easy to raise and evolve.
    Stats: Although it's literally an ellipsoid with a face and was put in the bottom tier in the current Smogon guide, Blissey can defeat every single special attacker in the game. There's a good reason why it's called the super wall. However, it has trouble with Pokemon that have high physical attack, and it...uh...might make the game take a bit longer.
    Typing: Being normal type, it only has one weakness. Very few special attackers know fighting attacks, so the weakness isn't extremely hindering. Although it has no good STAB attacks, it can usually deal enough damage with toxic.
    Movepool: Nobody cares about how wide Blissey's movepool is because the only two moves it needs to do everything are toxic and softboiled. (TM06 toxic can be found on Route 212) It can learn strength, rock smash, and rock climb, so you might as well make it an HM slave. If you really want to fill all four move slots with good moves, the last two should probably be psychic (to deal with poison Pokemon that are immune to toxic) and flamethrower (to deal with steel Pokemon that are immune to toxic).
    Major Battles: These are the special attackers that are battled after Happiny (DP) Chansey(Pt) becomes available.
    Diamond and Pearl
    Barry (Hearthome City): Prinplup, Buizel, Roselia, Ponyta
    Wake: Gyarados, Quagsire, Floatzel
    Barry (Pastoria City): Prinplup, Roselia, Ponyta
    Fantina: Drifblim, Mismagius
    Barry (Canalave City): Prinplup, Roselia
    Byron: Bronzor, Bastiodon
    Saturn (Lake Valor): Kadabra
    Mars (Lake Verity): Golbat
    Saturn (Galactic HQ): Kadabra
    Mars and Jupiter: Jupiter's Golbat
    Volkner: Ambipom, Octillery
    Barry (Pokemon League): Infernape, Empoleon, Roserade, Rapidash
    Aaron: Beautifly, Dustox
    Flint: Drifblim
    Lucian: Mr. Mime, Girafarig, Alakazam
    Cynthia: Spiritomb, Roserade, Lucario, Gastrodon, Milotic

    Platinum
    Barry (Pastoria City): Prinplup, Roselia, Ponyta
    Wake: Quagsire
    Barry (Canalave City): Empoleon, Roserade
    Byron: Magneton
    Saturn (Lake Valor): Golbat
    Mars (Lake Verity): Golbat
    Candice: Froslass
    Mars and Jupiter: Jupiter's Golbat
    Cyrus (Distoriton World): Houndoom
    Volkner: Raichu
    Barry (Pokemon League): Infernape, Empoleon, Roserade, Rapidash
    Aaron: Yanmega
    Flint: Houndoom, Flareon, Magmortar
    Lucian: Mr. Mime, Espeon, Alakazam
    Cynthia: Spiritomb, Roserade, Milotic, Lucario, Togekiss

    Additional Comments: Although Blissey has very little physical defense or offensive capabilities, it can still serve a unique and useful role. It does require toxic to work, but its TM is pretty easy to get and Blissey is the best abuser of that TM in playthroughs. Its good defensive stats are further complimented by the fact that it only has one weakness. Due to its early availability and extreme walling capabilities, I nominate Happiny for B tier in DP and Chansey for B tier in Pt.
    OrangeGuru likes this.
  16. Karxrida

    Karxrida Sorcerous Prince
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    5,055
    B is way too high. You have the hatch Happiny (a time sink on its own) and then proceed to baby something that has nonexistent offenses and comes at Level 1. For Chansey, you somehow have to find the stupid thing with its 5% appearance rate and then catch it.

    So they can wall and stall stuff? Who cares. That's inefficient as hell for ingame, and you're better off beating up the opposing Pokémon with literally anything else. Their exceptionally high HP also requires more resources to keep them healthy if you drop Softboiled to also use them as HM slaves.

    They are so not worth the time, effort, or resources to use, let alone be considered for B. They're bottom tier on the old lists for good reason.
  17. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    I guess this problem could move it down one or two tiers.
    I'm not sure about the "literally anything else" part, because offensive Pokemon will eventually run into issues about weaknesses and lack of coverage attacks, so they would need teammates to cover those weaknesses and types that they can't cover themselves. Because Blissey is normal type and relies on toxic for damage, it has these issues much less often, can defeat more different kinds of Pokemon, and doesn't need as much help from teammates.
  18. OrangeGuru

    OrangeGuru

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Ralts (Gallade)

    Availability: Ralts is only available in Platinum, where it can be found just before Hearthome City (aka early game) at a 15% encounter rate. It is easy to catch at a 235 capture rate. However to get a Gallade, you need to capture a male Ralts, which can be a little annoying if you encounter multiple female Ralts first. The earliest Dawn Stone (used to evolve male Kirlia into Gallade) can be found in the swamp outside Pastoria City, so it comes a little later (and it is hidden, making it more difficult to find)

    Stats: Ralts/Gallade is an interesting evolution line because the primary attacking stat changes upon evolving into Gallade. Ralts and Kirlia are good special attackers with Kirlia having a solid base 65 Special Attack. However, upon evolving, Gallade becomes a physical attacker with a base stat of 125. Coupled with this is a surprisingly good Special Defense stat of 115, allowing Gallade to absorb special attacks fairly easily. Also, 80 base speed is underwhelming for the back half of the game (unless you are overleveling), which typically forces Gallade to take a hit before hitting hard with its wide movepool.

    Typing: Psychic / Fighting is a great STAB combination that is resisted only by psychic-types. While Gallade only has two resistances in Fighting and Rock, it is only weak to two types as well with Ghost and Flying weaknesses.

    Movepool: Gallade has an extensive movepool filled with coverage options. Psycho Cut and Close Combat make up the STAB options from leveling up (although CC doesn't come until level 53 - so basically the Elite 4 and postgame), while also being able to utilize a wide variety of TMs, such as Drain Punch or Brick Break (useful if you don't want Fighting STAB before Close Combat), Stone Edge / Rock Slide (hits Flying-types), and basically any other desired coverage (Poison Jab, X-Scissor, Earthquake, etc). By using move tutors and the move relearner, Gallade also gets great options in Zen Headbutt, Leaf Blade, Night Slash (nails Ghost-types and Psychics), and the elemental punches. On top of all this, Gallade can also learn quality utility moves like Swords Dance (without the use of the TM), Thunder Wave, and Calm Mind (also potentially without TM). Before evolving, Kirlia has access to Confusion and Magical Leaf to get by on its above average Special Attack and gets Psychic at only level 31 if you are waiting to evolve. If all this isn't great enough, Gallade can also learn Cut and Strength if you need someone to run one of those HMs.

    Major Battles:
    Positive Matchup:
    • Maylene (especially if you have Psychic), Byron (if given Brick Break / Drain Punch as TM), Candice (once again needs Fighting STAB; Abomasnow can be KO'd by Fire Punch; watch out for Frosslass), Aaron (at first this seems neutral, but since 4 of his pokes are 4x weak to a specific type - rock, fire and flying - if you have the coverage moves this is more of a positive matchup), Bertha (once again 4x effective coverage makes this a positive matchup), all of Team Galactic (although Saturn is the toughest matchup), and Barry (Snorlax, Heracross, and Grass-type is easy to handle; Starraptor, and Fire-type is difficult; Empoleon is easy, but Floatzel is more difficult)
    Neutral Matchup:
    • Crasher Wake (can utilize 4x effective coverage options like Thunderpunch and Leaf Blade to KO Gyarados and Quagsire, but Floatzel will still be strong), Volkner, Cynthia (good vs Lucario and Roserade, but bad vs Spiritomb and Togekiss and Garchomp is always a pain anyways)
    Negative Matchup:
    • Fantina, Lucian (Espeon is especially troublesome), Flint (many of his pokes outspeed Gallade and hit hard physically making this a difficult matchup)

    Additional Comments: Even though Gallade's speed is a little lackluster, Gallade's great movepool, early access and great stats in Attack and Special Defense make it a stellar choice in Platinum playthroughs. It can be easily customized to fit the rest of your team with its wide movepool; however this does give Gallade a bit of 4MSS, making all the positive matchups slightly less positive in practice because you can't have all the coverage all the time - if that makes sense. Other slight problems include having to find a hidden Dawn Stone to evolve Kirlia, having to catch a specific gender (male) Ralts / Kirlia to get Gallade and having to use hard to find shards if utilizing the Move Tutor. However, all in all, I think Gallade still makes a great addition to a Platinum run, which is why I nominate Ralts (Gallade) for A Rank in Platinum
  19. Roseguardin

    Roseguardin formerly skywardsword596

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    309
    That's not really a good argument for efficiency though. Toxic takes time to deal damage and Blissey's piss-weak offenses aren't gonna help you much. By the time Toxic starts really doing its work, an offensive Pokemon like Gyarados or something can 2hko or 3hko the opponent and be done with it. Even if Gyarados has weaknesses that doesn't really matter, seeing as the point of an efficiency run is to beat the game quickly, not solo it with one mon at any cost. Set up turns take away from efficiency, which is why things with Nasty Plot or Swords Dance like Azelf or Infernape will be ranked higher than slower boosters with Calm Mind like Bronzong (random example). Also, Psychic and Flamethrower are good TMs. Without grinding for them in the Game Corner, it would be a better use to give them to Pokemon who can actually kill stuff with them as opposed to an unSTABed attack from this thing.
  20. OrangeGuru

    OrangeGuru

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    181
    I would probably have to agree here on not putting Chansey in B rank. While it is a great blob, gets Soft-boiled (really useful for in-game as well) and is the best user of Toxic, it just can't hit anything very hard without using good TMs (high opportunity cost), which has been stated already. Plus it is a pain to train from Happiny into Blissey (made more difficult because of friendship levels and again its inability to hit hard). Not to say Chansey can't be good (I personally like having one defensive poke on my team), but it is probably more suited for C Rank
  21. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    668
    I'm very good at making threads then getting super busy :c
    Thanks to everyone who has contributed, I will update the OP soon™!
    A lot of this has been said by others but I want to reiterate it.
    We tier Pokémon both on effectiveness and efficiency. This means that, for a Pokémon to be ranked highly, it needs to have positive matchups as well as win them in a reasonable period of time.
    Blissey is the very definition of a time sink, taking ages to capture/hatch and then needing babying until it becomes a Chansey (at the very least) or a Blissey. Chansey takes at least 5 turns to kill anything (Toxic takes 6 by itself but I'm allowing for a bit of chip from Pound or whatever), and while Blissey has a useable SpA stat, it's far from high. In addition, it isn't particularly fast, and its entire special movepool requires expensive or highly sought-after TMs. Toxic stall (and other forms of residual damage) is admittedly something I enjoy, but it is by no means time-effective. Soft-Boiled is nice but not amazing and arguably not worth the hassle.
  22. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    642
    I realized that at least at low levels, Chansey's attack stat is actually capable of KOing same-levelled mons for a bit. Furthermore, as you mentioned,

    Furthermore, it is capable of setting Stealth Rock, which is actually helpful in weakening targets (although admittedly far from amazing)

    D Tier is fine - it's a bit slow and TM dependent, but if you're willing to put up with feeding it TMs, it can actually give you results. And a 5% encounter is definitely not the worst thing in the world (both because it doesn't run and because Chimchar learns Taunt to stop it from self-healing)

    PS: Softboiled can heal your Pokémon outside of battle by transferring HP - it can save you some money on potions, especially early on.
  23. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    I'll rethink my tiering system to put offensive Pokemon on higher tiers.
    Edit: Here it is (for Platinum).
    Show Hide
    Pt S tier
    Abra (yes trade)
    Starly
    Chimchar
    Bidoof
    Shinx
    Turtwig
    Piplup
    Gible
    Machop (yes trade)
    Magikarp

    Pt A tier
    Gastly (yes trade)
    Buizel
    Geodude (yes trade)
    Cranidos
    Abra (no trade)
    Zubat
    Budew
    Onix (yes trade)
    Ponyta
    Scyther (no trade)
    Psyduck
    Rotom
    Eevee (Jolteon)
    Houndour

    Pt B tier
    Giratina
    Ralts (Gardevoir)
    Ralts (Gallade)
    Porygon (yes trade)
    Eevee (Vaporeon)
    Machop (no trade)
    Rhyhorn (yes trade)
    Buneary
    Eevee (Glaceon)
    Meditite
    Shellos
    Gligar
    Gastly (no trade)
    Heracross
    Bronzor

    Pt C tier
    Drifloon
    Azelf
    Scyther (yes trade)
    Cleffa
    Aipom
    Hoothoot
    Pichu
    Croagunk
    Eevee (Espeon)
    Geodude (no trade)
    Togepi
    Chatot
    Eevee (Leafeon)
    Yanma
    Duskull (yes trade)
    Wurmple (Beautifly)

    Pt D tier
    Kricketot
    Cherubi
    Nosepass
    Magnemite
    Eevee (Flareon)
    Chansey
    Marill
    Chingling
    Wingull
    Girafarig
    Wurmple (Dustox)
    Onix (no trade)
    Eevee (Umbreon)
    Combee
    Skorupi
    Spiritomb (yes trade)
    Shieldon

    Pt E tier
    Pachirisu
    Hippopotas
    Snorunt (Froslass)
    Rhyhorn (no trade)
    Burmy (Mothim)
    Magmar (yes trade)
    Burmy (plant Wormadam)
    Burmy (sandy Wormadam)
    Tangela
    Sneasel
    Uxie
    Quagsire (note that Quagsire is easier to catch than Wooper)
    Burmy (trash Wormadam)
    Electabuzz (yes trade)
    Lickitung
    Mesprit
    Finneon
    Goldeen

    Pt F tier
    Swinub
    Feebas
    Tentacool
    Barboach
    Munchlax
    Remoraid
    Riolu
    Sudowoodo
    Mr. Mime
    Tropius
    Carnivine
    Magmar (no trade)
    Dusclops (no trade)
    Swablu
    Porygon (no trade)
    Snorunt (Glalie)
    Snover
    Absol
    Steelix (no trade)
    Mantyke
    Unown
    Electabuzz (no trade)

    Pt untiered
    Misdreavus
    Murkrow
    Glameow
    Stunky
    Dialga
    Palkia
    Manaphy

    Did I put any time sinks too close to the top this time?
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  24. LightningLord2

    LightningLord2

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    642
    Why is Tentacool so low? Sure it comes a bit late, but Tentacruel has quite decent stats (average Special Attack, but good speed) and also some coverage options in Giga Drain and Ice Beam. It also does okay vs. Aaron and Candice, it falls vs. Volkner, can handle Bertha and Flint (be careful with the former) and take on Cynthia's Lucario and possibly Togekiss. It's certainly better than Goldeen at least.
    Karxrida likes this.
  25. sumwun

    sumwun

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    You can say that for a lot of Pokemon. If we analyzed every Pokemon like that, then almost everything would higher than D tier, and the higher tiers would contain too many Pokemon. Ingame tiers aren't necessarily meant to separate the bad Pokemon from the good Pokemon; they're more often used to separate the good Pokemon from the better Pokemon.
    Although I have to admit I didn't prioritize typing and movepool enough when I made those tiers.
    Last edited: May 24, 2017

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