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Pokémon X and Y Discussion

Discussion in 'Trou Du Cul' started by Birkal, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. cantab

    cantab

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    Just as long as the same Pokemon doesn't get No Guard, DynamicPunch, and Zap Cannon we should be fine.
  2. Charro

    Charro

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    I'm pretty sure Gamefreak has nothing to do with the movies, or the anime.
  3. Basileus

    Basileus

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    It would be banned anyway...
  4. Flareon

    Flareon

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    Would something similar to this be broken?
    Or if it is, just stick it in Ubers.

    Fire/Electric

    No Guard

    HP:65
    Attack:45
    Defence:75
    Sp.atk:90
    Sp.def:75
    Speed:105

    -Inferno
    -Zap Cannon
    -Focus Blast
    -Whatever/Calm Mind/Hidden Power

    It's pretty frail, has a Quadruple ground weakness, a Stealth Rock weakness, and a water weakness. It's Sp.atk isn't great, but it's decent enough, and it has high enough speed to take advantage of Paralysis.
  5. Flareon

    Flareon

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    Game Freak would ban it would they?

    Because Game Freak obviously cares about the metagame.

    EDIT: sorry, double posted.
  6. Basileus

    Basileus

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    No, smogon would ban it -_-
  7. Yveltal

    Yveltal

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    While I'm sure smogonites look to follow the metagame rules written on the website database in wifi tournaments, there are a lot of little children who might want to abuse a non-legendary OP fire/electric in the next Winter Friendly, and Game Freak wouldn't want to have a say in it because they believe that Dialga, Rayquaza and the like are the only things in-game that would give somebody an unfair advantage.
  8. Lord Jesseus

    Lord Jesseus

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    I would like to see a Special No Guard mon, but Inferno AND Zap Cannon seems like Overkill
  9. EsurioXY

    EsurioXY

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    How does RNG abuse, which requires hacking a system (and therefore enabling pirating of the software) and then a ridiculous amount of man effort to make an application for the 'easy abuse of by all', seem like it has been justified by Gamefreak in any way?

    Rather it is probably just something so minor and inconsequential to their core game, mind you they do not earn a buck off of what we conceive as a metagame, that it is simply not worth the processing power or extra code to work around.

    I really would love to see no RNG abuse possible. It would make the breeding mechanics more meaningful. Besides what is the point of IVs when we just max em out? Many people here assume Hidden Power is seen by gamefreak the same way we do... its not. Hidden Power is a unique power all pokemon posses that is related to their Individual Values. Its not supposed to be abused to the extent that we 'abuse' it.

    This is not to say that I have anything wrong with 'abuse' but if you seriously want to suggest that Hackmons are not the same thing as RNGmons then I think there is a problem. The end result is a highly suspicious and specific mon that homogenizes the competitive landscape.

    This all being said I really want them to have the RNG pull some crazy things from the gryoscope or something on the 'half tick'. Milisecond ticks for RNG would be very expensive!
  10. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    RNG requires hacking the system? What kind of RNG are you using?
  11. cantab

    cantab

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    RNG manipulation was possible in Emerald. It was made both easier and more powerful in DPPt, with certain mechanics (notably Journal Flips advancing the frame) seeming practically designed for it. My understanding is it's easier still in BW.

    Think about the situation without RNG manipulation. You have two ways to get a good Pokemon. Either be lucky, or tediously hatch a stupid number of eggs before you get a good enough one. If you do neither, you will be at a competitive disadvantage against those who do. And even if you do breed up a good Pokemon, it'll still be inferior to what some kid knocks up in 5 minutes in PokeGen and you'll have no way to match that without using PokeGen yourself. Is this really what you want competitive Pokemon to be like, either a world of grinding tedium or one where everyone hacks?
  12. Redless

    Redless

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    It may be that RNG hurts Pokemon by forcing competitive players on the cartridge games perform annoying and complex calculations and operations in an attempt to exploit loopholes in the game code and manipulate events that are supposed to be random. But it is too late now, what with RNG being possible in earlier generations, people could just RNG their Pokemon there and migrate them forward. The way I see it Gamefreak has three options to change RNG mechanics.
    1. Make RNGing excessively difficult and prevent Pokemon from migrating.
    2. Keep it how it is.
    3. Make RNGing excessively difficult and allow migration.

    Option one sucks because it is better to allow RNG than to lose the ability to migrate Pokemon. Option three sucks because it gives the new Pokemon an unfair disadvantage by making it so that earlier generation perfect Pokemon are much easier to obtain. Therefore option two is the best. Also, fifth generation set a precedent for this by allowing migration and making RNGing easier. So that's my two cents. If anyone else thinks that another option is better or more likely, please say so.
  13. cantab

    cantab

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    4. Make RNGing excessively difficult, allow migration, but make IV breeding considerably easier. With the suspected genetic theme of the games this actually feels like a possibility.
  14. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

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    Back before RNG was feasible, pokémon with IV spreads such as 31/x/25+/31/25+/31 weren't unheard of, even without AR codes like Fast Hatch, TM IV Check, Instant Egg. While it was much more difficult to get legendaries with such spreads, they still weren't absolutely impossible to have, and there used to be many giveaways on the Wi-Fi forum. What RNG made possible was everyone getting a couple more IVs on their pokémon without 90% of the tedious time consuming process. While a 25 Def IV may not matter much, everyone likes to have their mons perfect.

    And lol, "it homogenizes the competitive landscape". No one uses their in-game team on Wi-Fi. You don't even use NUs in OU unless you have a seriously good reason to. The "competitive landscape" is homogenized already. A couple more IVs in less time really doesn't change anything. If you really get bothered by shiny sparkles and weird pokéballs, then sorry but you get mad at the wrong things at life.


    Besides, I don't RNG anymore because I find BW RNG to be really confusing, what with all those parameters and timer0 and C-Gear frames and urgh. You can't even RNG breed in BW2 because they royally screwed up everything (for RNGers anyway).
  15. cantab

    cantab

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    I'm assuming though that those giveaways were only made possible by another presumably-unintended bit of game mechanics - Pokemon cloning glitches.
  16. Flareon

    Flareon

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    Which is irrelevant for an in game play through
  17. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    imo the only people against rng are people that took one glance at a guide and decided numbers/a program=cheating and/or tried to do it themselves and failed, and want other people to quit so they'd be on a 'level' playing field. these people are in the same league as people who think the medusa (or whatever that japanese guy's called) method is cheating because it makes finding shinies easier or you shouldn't worry about natures/IVs at all as long as the mon has smogon's suggested movesets.

    [relatively easy] rng abuse probably won't go away any time soon as long as we still have the same pokemon structure imo. if the game gets released in the e-shop imagine having access to your save file via SD card, the RNG would probably get cracked faster. (then again, i don't know anything technical about it, but i plan on testing stuff :p) we certainly wouldn't need R4s, ARs, or pokecheck (oh noes!) to back up/clone anymore, which is a plus, considering it would give people less reason to buy illegal/questionable (this excludes pokecheck!!!) hardware, but that probably won't happen.
  18. Infernis

    Infernis

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    And how does one get a good enough Pokemon to clone, if that were the case? Not through cloning. There will always be people willing to make their Pokemon perfect, regardless of the feasibility or difficulty.

    Subject change: In every generation in the past, there has always been a Pokemon or two that were completely let down by one fatal flaw. Bastiodon would have been a much better wall as a Ground/Steel type, for a type example. What would be the worst type a Pokemon could have in this next generation, based on the current metagame? (Asides from 'anything 4x weak to stealth rock'.)
  19. cantab

    cantab

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    Assuming a good No Guard abuser would be banned is a bit presumptuous anyway. Plenty of potential counters exist, like Pokemon with abilities to exploit the status, or an Arena Trap/Shadow Tag mon with sufficient defenses and a Lum Berry, or the Inferno/Zap Cannon model is potentially stopped by Camerupt.
  20. mattj

    mattj blatant Nintendo fanboy

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    I cherish every pokemon I manage to capture as a beautiful, unique, individual. Regardless of what it's nature and IVs are it's good enough for me exactly how it is.

    [edit]

    Wait. No I don't. Pokemon is a silly game and I want the best tools I can get so I RNG and don't even think about the morality or fairness of it and it won't be any different with X and Y.
  21. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Exactly. Either people would clone in Emerald, in DP using GTS, or just say "fuck this" and use an AR code or the import/export feature in PokéSav. All of them created the same pokémon, so no one bothered.

    Funilly enough, I'm sure Emerald cloning was not seen with good eyes by Nintendo/TCPi, as it's tampering with the save file regardless. In fact, it's LESS tampering than RNG abuse...
  22. Agonist

    Agonist Minutes become hours when you wait, hope and regret
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    There's no need to use C-Gear seeds unless you're doing BW1 Entralink. But anyway, given how much easier it is to get flawless breeds in BW2, if that carries over to XY, even the lack of RNG abuse won't be much of a hinderance, outside of legendaries.
  23. Zabel Zarock

    Zabel Zarock

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    Honestly I don't think anything can abuse No Guard well.

    Sure there's a lot of low accuracy moves out there, but usually a pokemon with No Guard gets one or two of them and really can't take advantage. Maybe the aforementioned Infernape but it doesn't get Dynamic Punch does it? If it could and had No Guard it would be a stronger Machamp.

    Golurk does have No Guard and has the movepool it needs to abuse it though, however its too slow anyways so much for that. Iron Fist is a better ability since it boosts majority of Golurks moves anyways.
  24. mattj

    mattj blatant Nintendo fanboy

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    holysmokes I didn't even think of that, but nearly every major game is coming out in the eshop too, so I'm certain it will
  25. EsurioXY

    EsurioXY

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    The Off Topic RNG related stuff is at the end of the post and I'm done on it.

    A Rock/Steel glass cannon with defeatist. :D Trollfreak do this!

    Any takes on a number of new pokes?

    My guess is:

    108

    with 20 being new evolutions. I am not expecting an expansive new world since they are including so many old ones in the trailers. Besides they just did a 'new world'...

    Now does anyone know if the 'region dex' has consistently been ~150 pokes?


    -Off Topic-

    I don't snub my nose at RNGers I just do not see how it is ethically different than hacking a perfect mon. I also find the argument that Gamefreak some how supports RNG ludicrous and self serving. I don't want to continue on the ethical nature of RNG abuse as its been done to death years ago. A great post about 'mathmaticians and engineers' (of which I am a career engineer) explains the two sides quite well.

    Besides without RNG the competitive landscape would have an extra level of randomization with it. Besides I really doubt 5 IVs matter more than a superior strategy/tactical execution.

    TLDR - RNG if you want to. Hack if you want to. I'll keep my perfect 31 IV spreads to the simulators here and build/breed my teams for wifi.

    Also I wasn't saying to RNG you have to hack but rather to find the equation of the RNG (and the variables) so that you can exploit it you have to hack the rom. This is supposedly impossible without someone cracking the 3ds as far as I know.
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