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Pokémon X and Y Discussion

Discussion in 'Trou Du Cul' started by Birkal, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. Bashfrog

    Bashfrog

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    I've been reading the comments, and I've got to say that something needs to be done about fighting. Base stat creep aside, the fact that fighting types became so powerful isn't quite ideal in the slightest. I agree there should be more poison types, but I doubt it because with canon taken into account, it would take a lot of ninja sneaking to implement more poison types without anyone noticing that many of the new pokemon have a part poison typing. I would say that Dark/Poison or Dragon/Poison would work well as a check. Dark/poison would have neutral resistance, and could be some sort of malicious chinchilla based creature (just for lols, not seriously) that could wall defensively and bypass the dark/fighting/psychic triangle, having no big weakness to any of them, except for perhaps a strong focus blast, but it might have recovery, like a new move. Stupid idea and never going to happen, I know, but a dark poison would be cool. dragon poison could be a fighting killer, murdering fighting types with impunuity, and also the grass/water/fire triangle, as it has become resistant to all of them. These both would be possible to beat, but fighting types would be violated hard.

    Also, my question for this week is: What's on the Bottom screen?
    I want to know. I don't care if it's same old, I absolutely must know. I don't care that it's been a week, I just want them to leak some battle pictures that could show any changes. I'm getting tired of these speculations, could we agree that we need more leaks to fuel good conversation?
  2. Dia

    Dia

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    And unfezant, who has the best design out of all the route 1 birds
  3. Dia

    Dia

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    I would like Froakie to become a flying type with the cloud thingy.
  4. Yveltal

    Yveltal

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    I wanna know why the male player character looks like Egoraptor.


    FURTHERMORE!
    Dia, do you even single post?


    ALSO!
    These sound like Normal and Fighting type variants. They actually sound more like abilities than attributes. As far as edge goes...If you're as bisexual as me, you would know what's wrong with that word alone. Unless Edge-type is meant to be sword-based pokemon. But even then...yah, that's RILL GROSS, GURL. What makes Xerneas "untamed", in any sense of the word? Elaborate a little more.
  5. lilsammy1

    lilsammy1

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    Are people trying to say Choiced Outrage isn't op? Lol yea right. The fact that if I don't have a steel type I'm screwed means dragons are slightly OP. If light is added it better freaking be SE againts dragons while also resisting then. And then make Grass and poison SE againts light to boost their usability.
  6. CountBleck

    CountBleck

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    Oh my god I suddenly love the male player character.
  7. Blazen

    Blazen

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    The only blessing provided by Poison type is absorbing T. Spikes. Typing doesn't make the Pokemon. It's just one part of it. Volcarona wouldn't be OU right now without Quiver Dance. Blaziken is only Uber because of Speed Boost.
  8. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    *ahem* Gliscor, Hippowodon, and Tangrowth, and Slowbro say HI. Not to mention that choice locking yourself into Outrage is a guaranteed death for your dragon unless you've taken out all your opponent's revenge killers already. I gave my CB Dragonite DRAGON RUSH to avoid that eventuality at one point, because I couldn't afford to lose it every time it ran into something it couldn't KO with Superpower or Fire Punch.

    CB Outrage is not even remotely overpowered. It hits hard yes, and avoiding losing a Pokemon from it can be difficult... but the fact that it prevents switching makes anything that dares use it easy pickings for revenge killers. Essentially, at best firing off a CB Outrage will get you a 1 to 1 trade off against any reasonably prepared player. Against someone who DOES have a sturdy physical wall or a steel type, it can easily result in you losing your pokemon for nothing.

    And I'm sick of hearing people complain about how Dragons force people to run steel types as if you wouldn't run Steel types even WITHOUT it being the only resist to Dragon types. News flash; Steel is a fucking fantastic defensive typing. I usually end up including one or more steel types on my team without even THINKING about dragon types.
  9. labarith

    labarith

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    Were Dragon Claw and Dual Chop not valid options for your dragon?

    The thrust with CL-Outrage is that if your opponent switches into a steel type, you've just lost a lot of tempo. If not, you've effectively 1:1ed your opponent. Now, yeah, 1:1 is not really ideal for your dragon in 6 on 6, but it's perfectly fine in 3 on 3 wifi battles.
  10. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    ah hadn't considered he was talking about Wi-fi 3 vs 3 singles (which, I'll be honest, I think is a horrible format for person vs. person battling anyway but that's another issue). This being Smogon I assumed he was talking the standard OU Metagame, but I forget that this thread has drawn in a lot of people from outside our usual group.

    Still, I maintain that it's a flaw with a 3 vs 3 format, not the Pokemon or move itself. CB Outrages are easily dealt with in all the other formats, so it's pretty clear to me what is actually at fault here.

    Moreover, I don't like it when people pop in just to say something is obviously overpowered, without any rational arguments to back it up, and expect to be taken seriously. There's too many damn people EVERYWHERE in gaming yelling that stuff they don't like is broken for me to NOT get miffed at it after a while. Especially when it's painfully clear it's their own lack of skill and knowledge to blame but they can't bear to blame themselves so they blame the game instead. Of course you can't extrapolate any of that from lilsammy's single post, but there have been others I won't name doing it here. Jumped to conclusions with lilsammy, though his condescending tone didn't help. I've never had much patience for people who can't admit they might be at fault, though I probably should seeing as it's a pretty darn common and understandable complex. I guess I just need to chill a bit eh?

    Oh, and as for the bit about why I chose Dragon Rush, Dual Chop is exclusive to the Axew line and Dragon Claw just didn't have enough power to get the job done. Dragon Rush might fail 25% of the time, but in my mind that was better than failing to get the job done or getting yourself killed 100% of the time. My CB Dragonite was tailored for my team though so I wouldn't recommend it to people in most circumstances :P.
  11. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    It's probably similar to the bottom screen we have now, except the buttons will be more cool and stuff, except maybe without the weather warning bar; maybe that will be replaced with constant weather like PBR (except when a Pokemon attacks... hopefully that won't happen in X/Y).

    Also, my guess for Xerneas's typing is Psychic/Grass or Ground or Normal. I would say Steel, but Steel isn't very natural (see: magnezone, metagross). Yveltal would be boss as Dark/Flying, but then again the Yveltal/Xerneas matchup would be kinda lopsided. Then again, we had Groudon and Kyogre...............
  12. labarith

    labarith

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    In defense of wifi 3vs3, besides being super easy to find an opponent, it really skews the metagame by decreasing the effectiveness, and thus use, of entry hazards.

    However, it is an unforgiving metagame... many a time I've lead with Starmie against something that turned out to choice scarf u-turn me to death. :X
    I use Focus Band Garchomp, but I can see the appeal of Choice Scarf Garchomp - it stops Starmie, trades w/ rough skin garchomp, outspeeds all other dragons, and ties for Choice Scarf Ditto.
    No, I agree! Outrage, I think, is fair. But sadly too many people disagree, calling for restructuring of the type chart to fix steel and dragon types. Absurd.
    See, I hesitate to play Hydropump. Focus Blast is just absurdly unreliable in my experience, and Dragon Rush isn't much better than that.

    I don't know what your team is, so I can't comment... but it strikes me that doing 90% of the job lets you bring in a closer, while doing 100$ 75% of the time reads as going 0% 25% of the time.

    Still, I prefer Outrage even in 6 on 6. Not CB Outrage, mind you... but I might depending on my team. +2 Outrage hurts things that resist it, and even +0 Outrage takes out most non-wall types. Team Preview really frees you up to use Outrage in situations where you wouldn't w/o it. (Note I've seen CBers use Outrage and Dragon Claw to hedge their bets...) CB Dragon Claw trumps dragons w/o drawback, while Outrage can hit 2 of an opponent's pokemon in a row if you've taken out their steel types. And 2:1 is a good record.
  13. breh

    breh
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    It'll be a bar that will make all previous bars look dated. Seriously, compare DP to Plat to HGSS to BW to BW2 - every single one is a dramatic change to what looks like a once ugly bar.

    (also let's hope for FINALLY having the ability to view stat stages)
  14. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    My problem with 3 vs 3 format is that it's automatically going to be almost purely team matchup based. Simply put, there's only so many threats you can cover with only 3 Pokemon, so if you end up against a Pokemon you can't cover well you're just flat out out of luck. This does not make for a good rated metagame at all since the outcome of so many matches comes down to pure luck.

    I don't see the purpose of a 3 vs 3 metagame really. Sure the matches are faster but who gives a dang when the battles are going to be predetermined by what you get matched up against? As for finding battles quickly, Pokemon Online and Showdown manage to do so just fine with a much smaller number of players, so I don't see why Gamefreak can't do it. Then again they can't seem to figure out how to deal with D/c'ers either (MAKE IT COUNT AS A GODDAMN LOSS FOR THE PERSON WHO DISCONNECTS, PROBLEM SOLVED) so I don't have much confidence in their ability when it comes to building a functioning online ladder.

    I hope to be plesently surprised in Generation VI, but let's be honest; Gamefreak (and Nintendo in general) hasn't done a great job of the whole "online gaming" thing in general yet so I'll start being optimistic when I start seeing results.

    I can give you some more context for why I chose Dragon Rush actually. I was using Dragonite in my team as more of a bulky hit and run attacker, taking advantage of his resists to fill holes in my team while still having a powerful offensive presence (obviously I had both rapid spin and wish support to make this viable). This is as opposed to the usual Wallbreaker/nuke role for CB Dragonite. Both Outrage and Dragon Claw were ill suited for this role, as Outrage prevented Dragonite from fulfilling the "run" part of "hit and run", wheras Dragon Claw simply didn't hit hard enough and would require it to stay in for multiple turns to get the job done, taking unnecessary damage along the way. His main goal was to pivot, so simply the THREAT of a heavy hit was needed; no smart player is going to COUNT on Dragon Rush missing. If he did miss, I'd just switch out anyway as I had planned in the first place.

    Basically, the key thing was I needed Dragonite to stay alive to patch holes in my team. Dragon Rush provided Dragonite with the best chance of survival. And it's not like I needed to use it often anyway; I found myself using Fire Punch. ExtremeSpeed and Superpower far more often (to catch Pokemon on the switch or revenge kill).

    So as you can see it was a rather unconventional use, hence the unconventional move :P
  15. Scorpio

    Scorpio

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    I say Xerneas is gonna be part Normal, most likely Normal/Steel. Fighting weakness will suck, but I don't see it having high defenses for an Uber anyways.

    You guys heard it here first.
  16. breh

    breh
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    The 3v3 format is actually pretty ok; I had a good bit of fun with it in PBR days so I imagine it's not impossible to do so if you have nonshit wifi to aid you along the way. I really look forward to WPA compatibility and what it'll do for Pokemon.
  17. PlatypusVenom

    PlatypusVenom

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    Maybe, but the prevos wouldn't have movesets that vary that much. To make up for their lack of difference, they could have completely different stats but evolve into something that is a more balanced compilation of their stats, like Regice and Regirock evolving into Registeel (I'm not at all saying that should happen. It is merely an example of extreme stats --> balanced stats).
  18. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    Alright before I discuss 3 vs 3 further I should probably get the lowdown on exactly how it works.

    First off, do you submit only 3 Pokemon, or does it work like in Pokemon Stadium where you see your team and your opponents team of 6 and select 3 Pokemon to try it? If so that does help alleviate some of the issues with the whole "counter everything" bit, though it still places an undue emphasis on luck (Predicting what Pokemon your foe is going to choose is pretty much a crapshoot with that little information).

    And perhaps most importantly, is it ranked and rated? If it isn't, then I suppose sure, keep it. But for a ladder type system it's a terrible idea; it's impossible to accurately rank the skill of people when everything is frequently decided as soon as Pokemon are picked. Not to mention that a shorter battle has less room for error, giving certain high powered strategies (like the aforementioned CB Dragons... or really CB/CS anything that has a really powerful attack) an unfair edge. Losing one Pokemon off the bat is recoverable in 6 v 6 where each Pokemon is less central to a team... losing a Pokemon in 3 v 3 can instantly cost you the match. Such things wouldn't be such a big issue where the object is just to have fun, but where people are keeping track of rating and jostling for leaderboards, it's not good at all.
  19. labarith

    labarith

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    While i can see the "divergent stats -> balanced stats" argument, I think the different movesets thing is a sticking point.

    If A and B both evolve into C, the question is why we needed to do this other than "just because we can." If A has moveset Y, B has moveset Z, and C a weak moveset W, then C can have either ZW or YW. If Z and Y are radically different, than Pokemon C is effectively EITHER role ZW or role YW, but not both.

    Think of it this way: Infernape can be either a special sweeper or a physical sweeper or a mixed sweeper. When you come in on Infernape, you're not sure what it is until it attacks. Pokemon C, I think, should be like this. But it shouldn't have the "mixed" role - it should have either of two radically different roles, meaning that once you figured out the role, you know what the pokemon is.

    Now, if you want to make it increasingly silly, make it such that a ZW and YW pokemon on the same team could do something dumb (think Starter combo moves)... but since they'd never be allowed on the same team, the combo wouldn't work (outside of the use of evolite).

    Suppose ZW was a physical sweeper with fire/ground while YW was a special sweeper with water/ice moves. Your opponent would have to guess whether their steel type walled it. And that's an interesting game mechanic that makes scouting more relevant.

    I actually think a A or B evolves to C pokemon is a great idea IF and only IF it utilizes the "two strategies" option. And this is relatively easy to do with coverage and special/physical movesets.

    Suppose pokemon A had (tier 1 final moves) Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Extreme Speed, Stone Edge and Multiscale when it evolved to C, and Pokemon B had Ice Beam, Hydropump, Aura Sphere, and Shadow Ball with Magic Bounce when it evolved to C. If C had Infernape's IVs (just because I'm lazy), it'd be super hard to deal with w/o predicting it first. Sure, you'd know it was never mixed... but you wouldn't know if you should burn it or stealth rock it, etc.
  20. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed king
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    Jesus, if that happens, I'm going to eat my old DS Lite

    How would WPA compatibility be any different than WEP for battles ?__?
  21. R_N

    R_N
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    And aren't BW1/2 already WPA compatible
  22. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Forever childish.
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    I think this is how Chespin came to be for anyone wondering...


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  23. breh

    breh
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    http://techforums.nintendo.com/thread/6197

    I'm pretty sure that WPA doesn't work, even with a 3DS. It's really irritating to have to go back and forth from format to format.
  24. shockwave527

    shockwave527

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    Hated him at first. Now I'm warming up because of this comment.



    Also, a thing on the whole type triangle thing:
    Let's look at what starters have become dual type based on type and generation

    _______1____2____3____4____5
    Water__N____N____Y____Y____N
    Fire____Y____N____Y____Y____Y
    Grass___Y___N____N____Y____N

    Here, you can clearly see that IN NO GENERATION has their been a repeat of starters gaining two types. Now, GF may not keep this pattern, but if they do:

    Not only is it impossible for them to do another YYY type triangle, but they can't even give fire a dual type.

    Not saying this is going to happen this way, but it's something I've noticed and seems to be a good rule of thumb.


    EDIT (Also in later comment, but decided to put it here for those reading through)
    Better explantation:
    They have never had the same types gain a double type. That means if, in one generation, fire became dual-type while grass and water did not, that has not happened again. Looking at the chart, every combination of types being dual and single has been different, and no series of Ys and Ns in a generation matches that of another column.
  25. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    I... have no idea what you're referring to with the sentence "Here, you can clearly see that IN NO GENERATION has their been a repeat of starters gaining two types." The scentence is, quite simply, nonsense. Maybe you could try explaining it again? Clearly something went wrong when you were writing that scentence.
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