1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Its_A_Random, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,289
    Approved by DHR-107 & Stellar
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Pokémon X & Y Version
    In-Game Tier List Discussion

    What is an in-game tier list?

    In-game tier lists rank Pokémon according to their usefulness during the main portion of the game—that is, until the credits roll for the first time. In-game tier lists provide players with the information needed to complete the game as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. For competitively-minded players, this approach to playing the game gives them more immediate access to useful items, TMs, and HMs.

    What are the tiers?

    In this in-game tier list there will be seven tiers (Or possibly more). Pokémon that are the most useful belong in the S-Tier, while Pokémon that are the least useful belong in the F-Tier. The tiers are as follows:

    -S-Tier
    -A-Tier
    -B-Tier
    -C-Tier
    -D-Tier
    -E-Tier
    -F-Tier

    Pokémon are tiered based on several factors:

    -Availability: When the Pokémon can be first found, and how rare. Earlier Pokémon tend to rank higher.
    -Typing: What is the Pokémon's typing and how useful it is in the game. More useful typings tend to rank higher.
    -Stats: What their base stats are like and how they contribute to a team. Pokémon with better stats for in-game runs tend to rank higher.
    -Movepool: What the Pokémon's movepool is like and how it contributes to a team. Pokémon with wider and more useful movepools tend to rank higher.
    -Major Battles: How the Pokémon fares against key match-ups in the game. Pokémon who perform better against more major battles tend to rank higher.
    -Other: Other aesthetics like abilities, levels, can minorly contribute to a Pokémon's tiering as well.

    Basically, Pokémon who are ranked higher in the tier list tend to be found earlier in the game (or at a higher level), can win more match-ups from the game's various trainers (Including the Gym Leaders, the Elite Four, and Team Flare), have stronger movepools (usually being able to learn more TM's, HM's, and Level-up moves), and may have other useful aesthetics like more useful abilities, faster growth, or self-healing.

    Which Pokémon are available in Pokémon X Version and Pokémon Y Version?

    The newest entries in the Pokémon franchise add 68 new Pokémon to the franchise, and the game's Pokédex itself contains 454 Pokémon split across three sections. These additions lend unparalleled diversity to the game. Below, you can find a list of locations as well as the Pokémon that appear in each location. These locations are listed in the order they can be accessed in the game. Routes and Pokémon that only appear in the post-game are omitted from this list. A Pokémon is only listed in the area in which it first appears in the wild.

    Availability (open)
    LEGEND
    [G] = This Pokémon is given to you by a NPC.
    [H] = This Pokémon can only be found in Hordes.
    [IN] = This Pokémon is an interactable encounter.
    [T] = This Pokémon is obtained via in-game trade.
    [X] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon X.
    [X*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon X only.
    [Y] = This Pokémon can only be caught in Pokémon Y.
    [Y*] = This Pokémon is first found here in Pokémon Y only.

    Aquacorde Town: Chespin [G], Fennekin [G], Froakie [G]
    Route 2: Caterpie [Y*], Weedle [X*], Pidgey, Zigzagoon, Bunnelby, Fletchling, Scatterbug
    Santalune Forest: Caterpie [X*], Metapod [Y], Weedle [Y*], Kakuna [X], Pikachu, Pansage, Pansear, Panpour
    Route 3: Dunsparce, Azurill, Bidoof, Burmy
    Santalune City: Farfetch'd [T]
    Route 22: Psyduck, Farfetch'd, Riolu, Litleo
    ----------GYM 1----------
    Route 4: Ledyba, Ralts, Skitty, Budew, Combee, Flabébé
    Lumiose City: Bulbasaur [G], Charmander [G], Squirtle [G]
    Route 5: Abra, Doduo, Plusle [X, HY], Minun [Y, HX], Gulpin, Scraggy [H], Skiddo, Pancham, Furfrou
    Route 6: Oddish, Sentret, Nincada, Kecleon, Audino, Venipede, Espurr, Honedge
    Route 7: Snorlax [IN], Hoppip [H], Smeargle, Volbeat, Illumise, Roselia, Croagunk, Ducklett, Spewpa, Swirlix [X], Spritzee [Y]
    Connecting Cave: Zubat, Whismur, Meditite, Axew
    Route 8: Spoink, Taillow [H], Wingull [H], Zangoose [X, HY], Seviper [Y, XH], Lunatone, Solrock, Absol, Luvdisc, Bagon, Drifloon, Dwebble, Mienfoo, Inkay, Binacle
    Old Rod Pokémon (open)
    Route 3: Magikarp
    Route 8: Luvdisc

    Ambrette Town: Amaura [G], Tyrunt [G], Aerodactyl [G]
    Route 9: Hippopotas, Sandile, Helioptile
    Glittering Cave: Machop, Onix, Cubone, Rhyhorn, Kangashkan, Mawile, Woobat, Ferroseed
    Cyllage City: Steelix [T]
    Route 10: Eevee, Yanma [H], Snubbull, Houndour [X], Nosepass [H], Electrike [Y], Sigilyph, Emolga, Golett, Hawlucha
    ----------GYM 2----------
    Route 11: Nidoran ♀ [H], Nidorina, Nidoran ♂ [H] Nidorino, Hariyama, Starly [H], Staravia, Chingling, Stunky, Throh [Y], Sawk [X], Dedenne
    Reflection Cave: Mr. Mime, Wobbuffet, Sableye, Mime Jr. [H], Roggenrola, Solosis, Carbink
    Route 12: Slowpoke, Exeggcute, Pinsir [X], Tauros, Mareep [H], Heracross [Y], Miltank, Pachirisu, Chatot
    ----------GYM 3----------
    Tower of Mastery: Lucario [G]
    Surf and Good Rod Pokémon (open)
    Route 3: Goldeen, Marill, Masquerain, Corphish
    Route 8: Wailmer, Shellder [Y], Staryu [X], Skrelp [Y], Clauncher [X]
    Ambrette Town: Horsea

    Route 12: Tentacool, Lapras [G], Remoraid, Clamperl, Mantyke
    Azure Bay: Chinchou
    ----------GYM 4----------
    Route 13: Dugtrio, Graveler, Slugma, Trapinch, Gible
    ----------GYM 5----------
    Route 14: Ekans [H], Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Bellsprout [H], Weepinbell, Haunter, Quagsire, Barboach, Skorupi, Carnivine, Karrablast, Shelmet, Stunfisk, Goomy
    ----------GYM 6----------
    Route 15: Murkrow [H], Mightyena [X], Lombre, Floatzel, Watchog, Liepard [Y], Basculin, Foongus, Pawniard, Klefki
    Lost Hotel: Magnemite [H], Magneton, Voltorb [H], Electrode, Trubbish, Rotom, Litwick
    Route 16: Phantump, Pumpkaboo
    Super Rod Pokémon (open)
    Route 3: Seaking, Gyarados, Crawdaunt
    Route 8: Cloyster [Y], Starmie [X], Qwilfish, Dragalge [Y], Clawitzer [X]
    Route 12: Corsola, Octillery, Huntail [X], Gorebyss [Y]
    Azure Bay: Lanturn, Alomomola
    Route 14: Whiscash

    Frost Cavern: Jynx, Piloswine, Smoochum [H], Vanillite [H], Cubchoo [H], Beartic, Cryogonal, Bergmite
    Route 17: Sneasel, Delibird, Snover, Abomasnow
    ----------GYM 7----------
    Team Flare Secret HQ: Xerneas [INX], Yveltal [INY]
    Route 18: Sandslash, Geodude [H], Graveler, Shuckle, Skarmory, Pupitar [Y], Lairon [X], Torkoal, Gurdurr, Heatmor, Durant
    Terminus Cave: Ariados, Larvitar [HY], Aron [HX], Noibat
    Route 19: Arbok [H], Politoed, Gligar [H], Drapion, Sliggoo
    Snowbelle City: Bisharp [T]
    Route 20: Jigglypuff, Noctowl, Sudowoodo [H], Zoroark, Gothorita, Amoonguss, Trevenant
    Pokémon Village: Ditto, Banette
    ----------GYM 8----------
    Route 21: Scyther, Dratini, Dragonair, Ursaring, Spinda, Swablu [H], Altaria
    Route 22 [PATCH OF GRASS ACCESSIBLE BY WATERFALL]: Azumarill, Bibarel, Diggersby
    Victory Road: Fearow, Poliwrath, Lickitung, Teddiursa [H], Druddigon, Zweilous, Hydreigon


    Untiered Pokémon
    Untiered (open)
    Torchic - Event Pokémon
    Articuno - Not available until Postgame
    Zapdos - Not available until Postgame
    Moltres - Not available until Postgame
    Zygarde - Not available until Postgame
    Mewtwo - Not available until Postgame
    Any other Pokémon not obtainable before beating the champion or can only be obtained via earlier Generations or Events


    What is, and what is not being tiered?

    A Pokémon that is not being tiered is not being so if:
    -They come from an event
    -They cannot be captured until the postgame
    -They cannot be caught in-game or can only be caught through Friend Safari

    Coincidentally, Hidden Abilities are not being considered for tiering, unless the Pokémon can be found in Horde encounters, though they will only have a minor influence on tiering.

    Mega Pokémon will be considered for tiering if their mega evolution stone can be obtained before the postgame, and can have an impact on tiering.

    Possible Mega Pokémon (open)
    Mega Venusaur - Venusaurite (Given from Prof. Sycamore on getting Bulbasaur)
    Mega Charizard X - Charizardite X (Given from Prof. Sycamore on getting Charmander in X)
    Mega Charizard Y - Charizardite Y (Given from Prof. Sycamore on getting Charmander in Y)
    Mega Blastoise - Blastoisinite (Given from Prof. Sycamore on getting Squirtle)
    Mega Gengar - Gengarite (Given from a NPC in Laverre City)
    Mega Aerodactyl - Aerodactylite (Given upon reviving Old Amber [Obtainable via Rock Smash in Glittering Cave])
    Mega Ampharos - Ampharosite (Given from a NPC in Azure Bay)
    Mega Lucario - Lucarionite (Held by Gift Lucario)
    Mega Abomasnow - Abomasite (Given from an Abomasnow in Frost Cavern)


    Current Rankings
    S-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Aerodactyl
    [​IMG]
    Charmander [X]
    [​IMG]
    Charmander [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Honedge
    [​IMG]
    Riolu
    A-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Azurill
    [​IMG]
    Budew
    [​IMG]
    Bulbasaur
    [​IMG]
    Fennekin
    [​IMG]
    Heracross [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Magikarp
    [​IMG]
    Sawk [X]
    B-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Abra (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Abra (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Axew
    [​IMG]
    Ferroseed
    [​IMG]
    Froakie
    [​IMG]
    Gible
    [​IMG]
    Hawlucha
    [​IMG]
    Mime Jr.
    [​IMG]
    Nidoran♀
    [​IMG]
    Nidoran♂
    [​IMG]
    Mime Jr.
    [​IMG]
    Onix (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Pinsir [X]
    [​IMG]
    Ralts (Gallade)
    [​IMG]
    Ralts (Gardevoir)
    [​IMG]
    Scatterbug
    [​IMG]
    Sigilyph
    [​IMG]
    Squirtle
    [​IMG]
    Starly
    [​IMG]
    Staryu [X]
    [​IMG]
    Throh [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Tyrunt
    [​IMG]
    Xerneas [X]
    [​IMG]
    Yveltal [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Zangoose
    C-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Absol
    [​IMG]
    Bidoof
    [​IMG]
    Binacle
    [​IMG]
    Caterpie
    [​IMG]
    Chespin
    [​IMG]
    Doduo
    [​IMG]
    Drifloon
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Espeon)
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Flareon)
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Sylveon)
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Vaporeon)
    [​IMG]
    Emolga
    [​IMG]
    Fletchling
    [​IMG]
    Furfrou
    [​IMG]
    Hariyama
    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan
    [​IMG]
    Karrablast (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Lapras
    [​IMG]
    Machop (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Machop (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Meditite
    [​IMG]
    Miltank
    [​IMG]
    Oddish (Vileplume)
    [​IMG]
    Pancham
    [​IMG]
    Pansear
    [​IMG]
    Pikachu
    [​IMG]
    Sandile
    [​IMG]
    Scraggy
    [​IMG]
    Seviper
    [​IMG]
    Shellder [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Skiddo
    [​IMG]
    Snorlax
    [​IMG]
    Solosis
    [​IMG]
    Tauros
    [​IMG]
    Tentacool
    [​IMG]
    Trapinch
    [​IMG]
    Venipede
    [​IMG]
    Zubat
    D-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Amaura
    [​IMG]
    Bagon
    [​IMG]
    Bunnelby
    [​IMG]
    Carvanha
    [​IMG]
    Chatot
    [​IMG]
    Chinchou
    [​IMG]
    Clauncher [X]
    [​IMG]
    Corphish
    [​IMG]
    Croagunk
    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal
    [​IMG]
    Cubone
    [​IMG]
    Ducklett
    [​IMG]
    Durant
    [​IMG]
    Dwebble
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Jolteon)
    [​IMG]
    Electrike [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Espurr (F)
    [​IMG]
    Espurr (M)
    [​IMG]
    Farfetch'd
    [​IMG]
    Flabébé
    [​IMG]
    Goldeen
    [​IMG]
    Golett
    [​IMG]
    Goomy
    [​IMG]
    Gorebyss
    [​IMG]
    Gulpin
    [​IMG]
    Gurdurr (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Gurdurr (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Helioptile
    [​IMG]
    Hippopotas
    [​IMG]
    Houndour [X]
    [​IMG]
    Huntail
    [​IMG]
    Inkay
    [​IMG]
    Kecleon
    [​IMG]
    Klefki
    [​IMG]
    Litleo
    [​IMG]
    Lunatone
    [​IMG]
    Mantyke
    [​IMG]
    Mareep
    [​IMG]
    Mienfoo
    [​IMG]
    Nincada
    [​IMG]
    Noibat
    [​IMG]
    Oddish (Bellossom)
    [​IMG]
    Panpour
    [​IMG]
    Pansage
    [​IMG]
    Pidgey
    [​IMG]
    Psyduck
    [​IMG]
    Relicanth
    [​IMG]
    Remoraid
    [​IMG]
    Rhyhorn (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Rhyhorn (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Relicanth
    [​IMG]
    Rotom
    [​IMG]
    Sableye
    [​IMG]
    Skrelp [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Snubbull
    [​IMG]
    Solrock
    [​IMG]
    Spoink
    [​IMG]
    Spritzee (w/ Trade) [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Stunky
    [​IMG]
    Swablu
    [​IMG]
    Swirlix (w/ Trade) [X]
    [​IMG]
    Taillow
    [​IMG]
    Ursaring
    [​IMG]
    Weedle
    [​IMG]
    Whismur
    [​IMG]
    Woobat
    [​IMG]
    Zigzagoon
    E-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Alomomola
    [​IMG]
    Ariados
    [​IMG]
    Audino
    [​IMG]
    Banette
    [​IMG]
    Burmy (Mothim)
    [​IMG]
    Burmy (Wormadam Plant)
    [​IMG]
    Burmy (Wormadam Sand)
    [​IMG]
    Burmy (Wormadam Trash)
    [​IMG]
    Carbink
    [​IMG]
    Chingling
    [​IMG]
    Combee
    [​IMG]
    Dedenne
    [​IMG]
    Delibird
    [​IMG]
    Dunsparce
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Glaceon)
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Leafeon)
    [​IMG]
    Eevee (Umbreon)
    [​IMG]
    Ekans
    [​IMG]
    Exeggcute
    [​IMG]
    Geodude (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Gligar
    [​IMG]
    Gothorita
    [​IMG]
    Hoppip
    [​IMG]
    Horsea (w/ Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Horsea (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Illumise
    [​IMG]
    Jigglypuff
    [​IMG]
    Lickitung
    [​IMG]
    Liepard [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Masquerain
    [​IMG]
    Mawile
    [​IMG]
    Mightyena [X]
    [​IMG]
    Minun
    [​IMG]
    Murkrow
    [​IMG]
    Noctowl
    [​IMG]
    Nosepass
    [​IMG]
    Pachirisu
    [​IMG]
    Plusle
    [​IMG]
    Qwilfish
    [​IMG]
    Roggenrola
    [​IMG]
    Scyther (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Sentret
    [​IMG]
    Shedinja
    [​IMG]
    Skitty
    [​IMG]
    Slowpoke (Slowbro)
    [​IMG]
    Slowpoke (Slowking)
    [​IMG]
    Spearow
    [​IMG]
    Spritzee (w/o Trade) [Y]
    [​IMG]
    Sudowoodo
    [​IMG]
    Swirlix (w/o Trade) [X]
    [​IMG]
    Vanillite
    [​IMG]
    Volbeat
    [​IMG]
    Wailmer
    [​IMG]
    Watchog
    [​IMG]
    Wingull
    [​IMG]
    Yanma
    [​IMG]
    Zweilous
    F-Tier (open)
    [​IMG]
    Clamperl
    [​IMG]
    Corsola
    [​IMG]
    Ditto
    [​IMG]
    Karrablast (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Ledyba
    [​IMG]
    Luvdisc
    [​IMG]
    Onix (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Phantump (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Pumpkaboo (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Shelmet (w/o Trade)
    [​IMG]
    Shuckle
    [​IMG]
    Smeargle
    [​IMG]
    Spinda
    [​IMG]
    Wobbuffet
    Not yet tiered (Sorted by Central/Coastal/Mountain then dex number) (open)
    CENTRAL

    None!

    ---

    COASTAL

    None!

    ---

    MOUNTAIN

    Dugtrio
    Geodude (w/ Trade)
    Slugma
    Skorupi
    Quagsire
    Shelmet (w/ Trade)
    Bellsprout
    Carnivine
    Haunter (w/o Trade)
    Haunter (w/ Trade)
    Poliwag (Poliwrath)
    Poliwag (Politoed)
    Stunfisk
    Barboach
    Pawniard
    Foongus
    Lombre
    Floatzel
    Basculin
    Phantump (w/ Trade)
    Pumpkaboo (w/ Trade)
    Litwick
    Magnemite
    Voltorb
    Trubbish
    Piloswine
    Bergmite
    Cubchoo
    Smoochum
    Snover
    Sneasel
    Torkoal
    Sandslash
    Aron (X)
    Larvitar (Y)
    Heatmor
    Skarmory
    Zoroark
    Scyther (w/ Trade)
    Druddigon
    Dratini


    Formatting

    Use the following format when submitting a Pokémon:

    [IMG]<Sprite URL (Please use Smogon Sprites)>[/IMG]
    [B]Name: - Tier
    Availability:[/B] When does this Pokémon become available? Is it easy or hard to encounter?
    [B]Stats:[/B] Describe how a Pokémon's stats make it excel. Is it a deadly sweeper or a strong wall? Discuss why you would use this Pokemon thank to its stats.
    [B]Typing:[/B] Discuss this Pokémon's typing in a sentence or two. Is its STAB efficient or not, does it have any great resistances or glaring weaknesses?
    [B]Movepool:[/B] Describe this Pokémon's movepool in a few sentences. Does it have many effective movepool options through level up? Is it over reliant on TMs to function? Does it have access to useful HMs to help you traverse the region?
    [B]Major Battles:[/B] Describe how the Pokémon handles the major opponents throughout the game. Notable opponents and battles include the Gym Leaders, battles against various members of Team Flare, the various rival battles with your friends, the Elite Four themselves, the Champion, and AZ.
    [B]Additional Comments:[/B] Discuss any miscellaneous information not covered in other sections here. Factors such as experience growth, abilities, and other lesser characteristics can be discussed here.

    A sprite generator can be found here

    For Pokémon with trade evolutions, I will tier them separately for those entries with trading and those without. If they are both with and without classed in the same tier after most things are tiered, they may be merged. Please write professionally.

    Some guidelines to follow:
    - No glitches allowed.
    - No trading in Pokémon from other games. For forth and back trading to evolve Haunter, Pumpkaboo, etc., read above.
    - We do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on its performance relative to another Pokémon. It does not matter if Pokémon X does the same thing better than Pokémon Y; if both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such. (e.g. Pansear should be E-Tier, because Charmander does its job way better)
    - Try not to factor leaving Exp. Share on when nominating. This is because the increase in growth over time means you could easily out-level other opponents by at least 10 levels later in the game, and of course Pokémon are going to do a better job against something when they are that much higher. This causes a bias that means everything gets tiered higher, and I want a more accurate reflection on its performance. You could try to extrapolate though.
    - Super Training and Poké Amie are going to be considered inefficient for the purposes of tiering, so do not bother trying to factor those. If you are using Sylveon, then obviously Poké Amie is fair game since you have to use it in order to get it.
    - Have fun!

    Feel free to dispute and discuss other users submissions, but please, no flaming. Normal forum rules apply here.

    Finally, This is not the place to talk about the games in general. Go here to do that.

    Oh, and a useful spreadsheet courtesy of user IOS that might help you when writing about Pokémon.

    This will be done in a few phases. First, initial tiering and placing, then writing up the entries, then finally reviewing placings and write-ups. Then we will attempt to get it on-site.

    Other than that, that is all.

    Cheers!
    Its_A_Random
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
    Skitty, Karxrida, MikeAU and 8 others like this.
  2. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,369
    Okay so off the bat I think Honedge should be S or A tier to be honest. Its resistances and moveset give it a huge boost in terms of usability. Early Shadow Claw and access to Swords Dance early lets it really roll over foes. It totally trolls Korrina's gym too.

    The rest of my team would likely be B rank or below. Greninja was fast and strong, but gaining Dark Type really hampered it in terms of resisting hits (there was a surprising amount of fighting types in Victory Road). Talonflame was strong but it gets its primary offensive options very late (Unless you get lucky in Coumarine for Acrobatics) but its typing really works well during the middle segment of the game. Mine actually saved me in the fight with the water E4 by coming in and killing stuff with Acrobatics.

    Floette will likely drop to D or E rank... I never evolved mine and left it with a Rocky Helmet, but it was still strong enough to OHKO a lot of stuff and it was decently defensive. I would definitely accept it being higher had I evolved it (I was moveset hunting). Aurorus is a strange one. It helped me win some pivotal fights, but it also died a fairly reasonable amount... I'd probably but it around D or E as well, it just didnt have the bulk or typing to take a lot of hits.

    Vivillon however was probably my second strongest mon... Compoundeyes with a moveset that was sent from the heavens. Hurricane? Check. Bug Buzz? Check. Sleep Powder (Stun Spore)? Check. Quiver Dance? Check. This thing never let me down once, it destroyed gyms and rivals alike and it never felt weak at any point in the game. It was truly surprising just how strong it was throughout the entire game. It started lagging a tiny bit towards the end, but it makes a strong case for A rank.

    My Second team is in progress (Delphox/Golurk/Heliolisk/Barbaracle/Carbink/Toxicroak) and I'll report back when these guys get going. I have 4 of the team atm so we will see.

    Are we factoring in Super training or not? It might be relevant for some mons and not others...

    FIRST POST CAUSE Hulavuta IS A NOOB :D

    EDIT: Can we put the trash mons in F tier now? Luvdisc/Smeargle/Wobb etc?
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  3. Lasagne

    Lasagne THE HERO APPEARS
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,151
    idk where to get an official diggersby sprite
    Diggersby: B Tier
    Availability:
    Bunnelby is a very common Pokemon right at the start of the game, so it is not hard to get one at all.
    Stats: While at first glance Diggersby's stats might seem underwhelming, the fact that is has 2 powerful STAB moves and some awesome coverage option covers up for this a bit. It will often OHKO or 2HKO many Pokemon you may be having trouble with. Its speed also outspeeds the large majority of Pokemon you will run into, especially later on when you are quite a bit higher leveled than normal trainers.
    Typing: Normal/Ground is a really solid offensive typing, as it offers superb coverage against many Pokemon in the game. Though it offers some useful resistance, it does not shine as much defensively, as it is neutral to a lot of moves and neither type covers up any weaknesses of the others.
    Movepool: Being the typical starting Normal-type, it has access to many HMs, so is a very practical Pokemon to have with you throughout the game. It also gets a lot of useful coverage options from TMs and level up, which makes is one of the factors that makes it surprisingly useful
    Major Battles: Diggersby doesn't particularly mind facing any of the gyms, as there is only one gym he can't spam Return against, and there he can spam Earthquake/Mud Shot/Dig instead. Diggersby also does well against the Steel, Fire and Dragon Elite 4 members, though not so well against Water, despite outspeeding and dealing a lot of damage to all the Pokemon, as it can't quite OHKO them and is OHKOd back by Water moves. It does well against the champion, but not so well against AZ.
    Additional Comments: It grows very fast so is easy to level, and Diggersby has a couple of cool abilities in Cheek Pouch and Pickup. I used Pickup and it got me many useful items early on in the game. Sometimes Diggersby's power was a bit lacking, and just missed out on some OHKOs or 2HKOs, but it was very useful for me which is why I'm pushing for B. Edit: you can also use huge power if you get it from someone else via trade. That shit owns

    did i do this right
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  4. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,289
    Just going to make a quick post saying that Super Training & Poké Amie are going to be considered rather inefficient for the purposes of tiering, so do not bother trying to factor those. If you are using Sylveon, then obviously Poké Amie is fair game since you have to use it in order to get it.
  5. unfixable

    unfixable

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,622
    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir: A - Tier
    Availability:
    It evolves from Ralts at Level 30 - which is found at Route 4, somewhat hard to find but not too bad.
    Stats: Gardevoir has a higher Special Attack than most of what you'll encounter, it also has great Special Bulk and nice Speed. It's Special Stats are what truly shine with 125/115 making it very good on the Special Side.
    Typing: Gardevoir's STAB moves are very good, while on the defensive side, it is weak to Ghost, Poison, and Steel, which aren't very common in-game and there are no gyms of these types. It is also super effective on Pokemon from 3 of the 8 gyms, and 1 Elite Four Member, while being SE on half of the Champion's team.
    Movepool: Gardevoir has access to a wide variety of TMs, and also gets a very Powerful STAB move just 10 levels after it evolves. It also can get a 95 Base Power STAB upon evolving through the Move Relearner. It also has access to Thunderbolt and Energy Ball, which allow it to easily handle 3/4 of the Elite Four. It is not very reliant on TMs, but it does enjoy them!
    Major Battles: Through what has already been mentioned, it can easily handle 3/4 of the Elite Four, and through early on TMs it is possible to be se ON 5/8 Gyms. Against the Champion it is just phenomenal, being able to OHKO most of them with her STABs - bar Goodra (who has insane special bulk anyways) and Gardevoir. It is downright amazing at this point.
    Additional Comments: Its ability is also nice, with Synchronize helping against the In-Game Pokemon that decide to use Toxic or some other crap. Honestly, the thing that I would say prevents it from being S-Tier is how it's Speed, while nice, is just sometimes not enough. It also doesn't have the Physical Bulk or HP to handle the many Physical Pokemon. Other than that, I really enjoyed using one In-Game, it was very powerful and swept the E4 bar the Steel-type one (thanks Chesnaught <3333), named mine DC and it was a guy, so instant Trans-PokeBro for life :)))
    Kiga and Gokuzbu like this.
  6. IOS

    IOS

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    127
    Just a couple notes on the spreadsheet I made:

    1) I only recorded data for mandatory fights. Unless I missed any, every other fight in the game can be skipped over. This was done for consistency's sake (every player, regardless of play style will encounter these fights) and because this sample included all the important/more difficult fights in the game such as the Rival battles, Team Flare and Gym Leaders. I may go back later and include non-mandatory trainers in Gyms so that all gyms are fairly represented though.

    2) The third sheet shows which types are more effective offensively throughout the game. If a Pokemon has access to strong attacks of these types, they'll be in better shape. For example, a lot of the mandatory fights are against Team Flare, who carry a lot of Dark (Houndoom, Scrafty, Mightenya, Liepard) and Poison (Croagunk, Golbat, Swalot) Pokemon. Therefore, types that are effective against these types tend to be more useful.

    3) If I made any errors, just send me a PM and I'll fix it ASAP.
    Xthaipe likes this.
  7. Goutland

    Goutland

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    I feel like this one is obviously very high, if not the top ranked mon for all of in game:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Name/Tier: Lucario - S Tier

    Availability: gift pokemon after the 3rd gym

    Stats: 70 HP / 110 Atk / 70 Def / 115 SpA / 70 SpDef / 90 Spd in normal form, 70 HP / 145 Atk / 88 Def / 140 SpA / 70 SpDef / 112 Spd in mega

    For all intents and purposes, you basically have an Uber extremely early in the game. You can teach it any move, physical or special, and it's going to deal a huge amount of damage. Not to mention its incredibly high speed. Its bulk is average at best, but its typing makes up for it.

    Typing: Lucario's steel typing offers it a wide variety of resistances, making up for its low to average defenses most of the time. And fighting is always a great type to have STAB on that also doesn't slack defensively.

    Movepool: Lucario has a great movepool on both sides with fairly high TM compatibility. It has great coverage in power up punch and bone rush to start, and you can teach it shadow claw and/or rock tomb to give it nearly flawless coverage. Once you get aura sphere (level 42) you're pretty much set for the entire game.

    Major Battles: Uh..... I don't know really. All of them if you really want. :/ Mega Luke hardly has any bad matchups in the entirety of the game with its incredible offenses. It's more than capable of soloing the entire game.

    Additional Comments: Adaptability makes (Mega) Lucario's fighting type STABs hit like a truck. Unfortunately it doesn't really have any steel type STABs to utilize until post-game, but they're not really necessary.

    So yeah... that's (Mega) Lucario for you. Extremely OP in game. I may do a writeup for Meowstic or something else I used in-game but it's kinda hard to tier anything but top and bottom right now with the entire list empty and so many tiers.
    unfixable likes this.
  8. IOS

    IOS

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    127
    Poison is actually reasonably common in-game. Team Flare grunts often carry Croagunks, Swalots and Golbats and they're the most common Trainer type in the game. There are also many Grass/Poison Pokemon in the 4th gym such as Gloom, Roselia and Ramos's Weepinbell. Gardevoir does have Psychic STAB moves to counter these Pokemon though.

    What I'm most curious about in regards to Gardevoir is how it performs prior to its final evolution. I've had many frustrating experiences training Ralts in previous generations.
  9. IloveslakingIGN

    IloveslakingIGN

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    146
    I second this, but I blame it on myself trying to play Ralts/Kirlia as Kadabra.
  10. Its_A_Random

    Its_A_Random Solves issues recursively
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,289
    Goutland: Remember you can get Riolu on Route 22, so it can have some utility beforehand, but I guess the Gift Lucario kinda... Yeah, especially given how rare Riolu is... -.-'

    Also, does anyone object to throwing the following straight into F-Tier for obvious reasons:
    -Luvdisc
    -Smeargle
    -Wobbuffet
    -Ditto
    -Any other "jokemons" I missed.

    I can give reasons for each if you want me to, but well yeah.
  11. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,127
    [​IMG]
    Name: Meowstic Female - A Tier
    Availability:
    Route 6, in between first and second badge, pretty early on
    Stats: 74 / 48 / 76 / 83 / 81 / 104 (estimated only)
    Your typical run of the mill Psychic type, with more bulk than Kadabra but faster than Gardevoir (can also handle physical moves better). Average, but by no means bad.
    Typing: Psychic is pretty average from an offensive and defensive standpoint, and there are many Dark and Steel types about. However, Meowstic can handle them because....
    Movepool: Probably the most noteworthy feature of this Pokemon, simply put it's amazing. Charge Beam, Shadow Ball, Psyshock, and Signal Beam....all by level-up. All but Signal Beam come by lv31, so pretty early on you'll be set to go with some great moves. Psychic comes at 40. Signal Beam comes at lv45 but to tide you over until then, Espurr gets Disarming Voice at lv22, allowing it to hit Dark types supereffectively. For TMs, it's compatible with the Thunderbolt TM you get from the 5th gym.
    Major Battles: Meowstic has almost perfect coverage against everything (keep in mind Steel no longer resists Shadow Ball), although it has trouble with Dark types that Signal Beam only hits for neutral. I have not really experienced any roadblock moments with Meowstic yet.
    Additional Comments: This concerns female-only; male Meowstic do not get some of these moves by level-up and is greatly inferior for storyline purposes.
  12. IloveslakingIGN

    IloveslakingIGN

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    146
    Dedenne, Minun, Plusle.
  13. Goodbar

    Goodbar

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    5,685
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Name/Tier
    : Skrelp/Dragalge - B Tier

    Availability: After you obtain good rod past 3rd gym

    Stats: 50 HP / 60 Atk / 60 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpDef / 50 Spd (Dragalge: 59 HP / 75 Atk / 90 Def / 97 SpA / 123 SpDef / 44 Spd)

    Mediocre stats unevolved and unfortunately you have to level this up 23 times before it evolves. But this and its speed are its only downfalls

    Typing: Both water/poison and dragon/poison have a lot of resistances and cover a ton offensively. The former is clear looking at Tentacruel but the latter racks up a nice 7 resistances and only 4 weaknesses that aren't very bad. Dragalge can take Psychic/Ice hits very well with its massive Spdef and Dragon isn't very common.

    Movepool: You get Surf and Venoshock from the start, Thunderbolt not long after and Dragon Pulse around the same time or a bit later. Amazing coverage.

    Major Battles: Excellent for the fourth gym and sixth gyms due to poison typing, can take on your rival at all times besides Meowsic (Dragalge can handle it though), but not great for the other gyms. Fairly useless for gym 5 (as Skrelp) but gyms 7 and 8 it can be useful (as Dragalge) despite the weaknesses.

    Additional Comments: Slowness can be a bit of a pain when encountering wild Pokemon. Generally its versatile movepool and good typing (and great stats when evolved) make it a pretty nice asset for a team. Skrelp is probably the best Surfer you can get as early as you get Surf if you didn't pick Squirtle or Froakie.
  14. IOS

    IOS

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    127
    Psychic/Bug/Ghost/Electric only has type advantage over 8/18 types in the game. One of those types is Ghost, which is very rare, and Grass is almost never seen outside of the 4th gym (and Meowstic won't have Signal Beam for it anyways). With Dark such a common type thanks to Team Flare (and Signal Beam only doing neutral damage vs. Houndooms), I think it must rely on Exp Share in order to be as good as you say.

    That being said, I haven't used it, just playing devils advocate.
  15. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    [​IMG]
    Name/Tier: Goodra- B Tier (possibly A)

    Availability: Route 14 (Route after 5th gym.)

    Stats: Goomy:45/50/35/55/75/40 Sliggoo: 68/75/53/83/113/60 Goodra: 90/100/70/110/150/80 (Great eviolite user as Sliggoo.)

    Typing: Pure Dragon typing is kind of bland, but with its defenses make up for it.

    Movepool: A little narrow until it evolves into Goodra, but there aren't many trainer-owned steel types in this game. It gets Thunderbolt through TM at all stages, so that gives it some extra firepower. Once it evolves into Goodra though it gets a lot of good TM moves, such as Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Thunder, and Earthquake.

    Pre-evolutions: Goomy is pretty weak both offensively and defensively, but it comes around the late 20s to early 30s if i remember correctly, so it's not THAT bad. Sliggoo's defenses are a lot better, especially with the Eviolite. 83 SpAtk is decent for in-game, and Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt is good enough coverage, with Muddy Water being learned at Level 38. Goodra's stats are pretty good all around (although finding a perma-rain route is annoying sometimes -_-), with the only sore spots being Def and Speed, but even those are workable.

    Major Battles: 6th Gym: Fairies. No. 7th gym: This is workable, and Sliggoo can muscle through it with that 113 SpDef boosted by Eviolite. 8th Gym: Even with base 150 SpDef, Goodra still wont like taking STAB Ice Attacks, but if it has a Fire move you could try if you want. The E4 aren't really hard due to Goodra's wide movepool and good base defenses and SpAtk. It gets Power Whip/Thunderblot/Thunder for the water E4, Flamethrower/Fire Blast for the steel one, Muddy Water for the fire one, and Dragon Pulse/Outrage for the dragon one. The champion is a little tougher, although Goodra could feasibly take out Hawlucha and/or Gourgeist.

    Additional Comments: Rough starting phase as Goomy makes grinding annoying until Sliggoo, but then it can easily hold its own with Eviolite, and great move pool as Goodra make it a force to be reckoned with.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  16. thelaytonmobile

    thelaytonmobile

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    260
    Sadly, I think I won't be able to contribute much, since I was overleveled for the entire game.
    It's just my personal opinion that Hawlucha and Magneton were pretty awesome.
    Hawlucha was the only mon I super-trained, so it will be less relevant. However, its placement just before Team Flare's Dark-type heavy appearance was very fortunate, and it seemed to have ggod stats too. It also seemed to level up faster than most of my other Pokemon.
    I also used Magneton, which did pretty well for itself against a lot of common types. Flash Cannon was actually useful in this game with all the fairies running around!
    I used other mons too, but others will likely post better and less overleveling-biased reports on those. I don't know how commonly used Hawlucha and Magneton will be. If no one else posts about them, I may write this up more formally. :)
  17. unfixable

    unfixable

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,622
    I honestly got it at the 6th Gym over Wonder Trade as a Level 1 Ralts (Thank you based Japanese guy for Flawless IV'ed Modest Ralts), so its Special Attack was very high as I supertrained it and got it to Max Affection as soon as I got it, I know affection shouldn't be mentioned but it did save me sometimes. I powerleveled it by Bringing it in then switching out, so I have little experience with Ralts and Kirlia, I did however use Kirlia a little bit and it was good for me. I did teach it Thunderbolt / Grass Knot / Dazzling Gleam at the start, so that could be it.
  18. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    912
    Honestly, all the Kanto Starters should be S rank. Their megaforms can pretty much solo the entire game.

    Fennekin is probably S Rank, while Froakie and Chespin are A rank. Delphox is ridiculously powerful and has phenomenal ingame STABs. Greninja is REALLY hampered by its typing because of how common they made fighting-types (and battle girls are ridiculously op.) I haven't used Chespin but I heard its slow and has issues with a lot of the major trainer battles.

    I damn near solo'd the champion with Dragalge, so I agree with it being very highly ranked :)

    Krookodile is pretty amazing; Moxie is still as overpowered as it was in Gen V ingame. It can even overcome its disadvantages once it learns Earthquake.
    unfixable likes this.
  19. unfixable

    unfixable

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,622
    [​IMG]
    Name: B - Tier
    Availability:
    Chesnaught evolves from Chespin, you get it at the very start of the game, literally could be your very first Pokemon.
    Stats: Chesnaught has a great Defense stat, allowing it to take a few hits on that side. Its HP and Attack are also good. Its Speed however really holds it back.
    Typing: Its STAB moves are resisted by Emolga, Talonflame (and other Fire/Flying), and a few others, but Emolga is rare and Talonflame isn't too common. Other than that they are pretty good.
    Movepool: It learns very interesting moves through level up, but sadly, it must rely on TMs for Fighting STAB.
    Major Battles: It is weak against 4 Gyms and SE on 2, while it is SE on 1/2 of the E4, while weak to 1/4 of the E4. It doesn't fare well against Team Flare and Diantha though.
    Additional Comments: While I love Chesnaught to pieces, it really isnt the best Pokemon. But it is definitely good if you can teach it the right moves and train it right.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  20. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,914
    juuuust so you know, skarmory isn't resistant to fighting, it's neutral to it, so that just leaves talonflame and the other fire/flyings, as well as emolga i guess.
  21. unfixable

    unfixable

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,622
    Oh yeah! Made a mistake. But is Emolga even in the game?
  22. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
    is a Forum Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,127
    I disagree with nearly every part of your post.

    Coverage doesn't have to mean hitting everything SE; the only reason I mentioned Disarming Voice/Signal Beam is to extol Meowstic's value of hitting the types it's weak to supereffectively. However, nothing that I can think of resists Psychic/Bug/Ghost/Electric. The fact that it has a neutral move for every situation and all of those moves are pretty powerful is a huge asset to have. I know we shouldn't use the relativist argument itt, but it hits Houndoom pretty hard on the neutral side, more than one can say for fellow Psychics Kadabra, Delphox, and Gardevoir which struggle to produce a move to use against it. I did mention that Dark types that Meowstic hits neutrally do give it some problems, but that's why it's in A tier and not S tier. It has weaknesses, but they're few and far between. Pretty much everything else it can steamroll with strong coverage.

    If you haven't used it, then I strongly recommend you not make statements like "I think it must rely on Exp Share" if you don't know what you're talking about. To give you some credit, it needs some help from ~lv12 when you initially get it until lv18 and only because Honedge shows up in the same route you catch it in. However, it becomes exponentially better from there and I didn't feel like I had to handhold it at all; again, it gets some good and powerful moves pretty early, so that you have a nearly complete moveset by lv31. It doesn't need lategame TMs to achieve this. The fact that its defenses aren't godawful helps it a lot.
  23. Ausgirl

    Ausgirl

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    586
    Chesnaught learns Hammer Arm which aside from it's 90% accuracy is still a good move, for in-game purposes anyway.
  24. Ondore

    Ondore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    358
    Hawlucha: - A Tier
    Availability:
    Route 10. Somewhat rare. Comes at L19-21.
    Stats: Good attack, very high speed, has some Special Defense issues.
    Typing: Fighting nulls the traditional Flying weakness to Rock and gives two potent offensive STABs. Defensively, anything strong Specially could pose issues but you should be fast enough to deal with most threats.
    Movepool: Comes with Wing Attack and either Karate Chop or Aerial Ace out of the box, learns the odd Flying Press (does Fight/Fly damage, which can ruin some SEs) shortly after and learns the insanely powerful High Jump Kick in the low 40s. Can pick up Rock Tomb and Slide for coverage, compatible with all non-Water HMs.
    Major Battles: Can roll the first three gyms after you get it and can do a lot of damage in the Ice gym if it doesn't die in the process. Handles Team Flare grunts with ease, checks Callem/Serena's Absol and starter if you didn't pick Chespin.
    Additional Comments: Ingame, Limber may actually be more useful than Unburden since you're not using Gems and probably have things like the Amulet Coin held.
    Banryu likes this.
  25. Lord Jesseus

    Lord Jesseus

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,982
    Pangoro for at least A-Tier imo
    Pancham is available early in the game, and there are some dark types on that very route to help him evolve. His late level for evolution holds him back a little, but XY levels you up obscenely fast and he'll probably be evolved for most major battles.
    Fighting is obviously an awesome type in terms of SE coverage, and Dark complements it nicely. He's waaay weak to fairy though, which poses a problem. That said, he still survives Disarming Voice from Serena's Mewostic and Crunches it to death, so that's nice. :3
    His attack is enormous, and his defenses aren't too shabby either.
    It's movepool isn't enormous, but has what it needs. Thief is an early game TM that fills your Dark slot until Crunch, and that and Iron Fist Hammer Arm cover most of everything besides Fairies. He also gets some good utility moves; I've enjoyed using him for Rock Smash, False Swipe and Thief - since they're TMs you can use them all in the one moveslot as you need them, then teach him something else for battle. He can fill your HM slave needs too with Cut, Surf and Strength, though it holds back his fighting potential.
    Obviously he's capable against the Rock, Ice and Psychic gyms, and surprisingly electric. He also handles Steel in the E4 though an EQer is better for Aegislash. He can hit most of anything else at least Neutrally and put large panda shaped holes in your enemies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)