Pokémon XY General Discussion

[Yveltal]

But they're too similar. Yellow? Check. Rodents? Check. Electric type? Check. Cutesy? Check. Cheek Circles? Check. Maybe I'll agree with your points in other things, but not the cheek circles. It's apparent that they wanted it to be copy of Pikachu.

That's still like complaining about the visual similarities between African and European swallows. For a more relevant analogy, that's like saying that Yveltal is just a beefier version of Honchkrow. You're just being picky and objectifying Dedenne for being nothing particularly groundbreaking at first sight based solely on previous official designs.

That way, there would still be a gradient of pokemon strengths available for the single-player mode, but many more pokemon would be viable in the competitive scene, and Smogon wouldn't have to make up as many tiers to house them all, because battling would be mostly up to player skill instead of being mostly up to the base stats of the pokemon used (basically, imagine if there were only NFE, UU, OU and Uber - there would be far more pokemon in the middle two tiers, and pokemon in BL would ideally be brought into OU or UU).

Mega evolutions for pokemon that are already pretty strong don't make sense, and the pokemon that could use a mega evolution would be much better off with either a permanent linear evolution (such as Mawile evolving permanently into another pokemon) or a horizontal/split evolution (like Kirlia > Gardevoir/Gallade)

This doesn't really phase me, because there's naturally going to be cream-of-the-crop character types in a game like this. Tiers are essentially the food chain, giving more viability to current predators/prey in between UU and NU would just whitewash everything that already happens to be threatening.

And as for their selections of MEvos, we'll just have to wait and see what else they chose before making any strong statements about how it effects the power creep.

 

[Count Bleck]

*sigh*

Okay, Lord Raiden. I'm trying to see what your point is. Are you trying to convince people Megas are broken? Are you trying to rile us up to not buy the game? Are you just rambling about things?

Mega evos can only be used once per round, on per team (or once per match, they aren't very clear). This is very simillar to the Limited cards in Yugioh, such as Heavy Storm and Solemn Judgement. These cards not not and still do not bring all of Yugioh to their knees.

Lucario getting more powerful is like complaining about Blue eyes getting more support. It's just "Okay, deal with it." it's not something to be like "GAH BLUE EYES IS SO UNBEATABLE NOW I'M DONE WITH YUGIOH FOREVER! *slam*" because thats just stupid. Do you see where I'm going with this?

We have seen only 7 Megas. 2 of which are basically already Uber. We have only had a demo of one, and that's Mewtwo. And since Mewtwo is purposefully overpowered, you officially have no evidence besides speculation to tell whether Megas are broken or not. Even if they are broken, the Smogonites will decide where they go, as we always have.

Let's see...How many Overhyped Pokemon did we have for gens... Elcetivire, Magmortar, Whimiscott, The Therian formes, Porygon-Z, Rampardos... I can keep going.

Anyways, Long story short; This is Gamefreak's game; they know perfectly well and have probably thought of more ways to fix this than you have reasons to yell about. Calm down, be patient, and wait a bit. Heck, don't even buy X or Y until Smogon sorts things out, or just don't buy it all. Meanwhile, I will be flying about on my sexy Mega Absol.

Also, Have a Shiny Fenniken.

 

[WaveBomber]

By skip it, I basically meant I would just quit playing. I have other hobbies that I could do as well, and I didn't buy any of the generation five games for the same reasons.

じゃあ、さよならな。

The other problem is that the story is still somewhat lacking in terms of challenge for older or more discerning players. It's gotten better in the more recent generations, but the single player portions still feel kind of like busywork to do until I get to the endgame stuff where I have access to every item, pokemon, and TM and can just sit back and breed strong pokemon for battle frontier stuff and online battles.

Pokémon is a JRPG, mainly marketed towards children. What you're complaining about here is inherent to the genre.

Also, it wouldn't be hard to make the selection of pokemon synergize better with both the battling and the story parts of the game. The single-player portion needs weak pokemon near the beginning of the game, and yet competitive play (or even just "serious" battling with human opponents) tends to exclude pokemon without a certain base stat total, unless they have a special niche. The solution is to reduce the gap in base stat totals, so that the difference between the lowest and the highest is about 175-200 instead of the 300 or so it is now.

The BST gap is 540. Arceus = 720 and Sunkern = 180.

And again, Pokémon is a JRPG marketed towards children; as such, it has a major focus on progress and satiating power-hunger. If the BST gap were as low as 200, there'd be an atrocious drop in variety among the 650+ individual creatures in the game, and blowing through the Elite 4 with Mewtwo wouldn't be nearly as satisfying. You can't have a really good thing without something really bad to compare it to.

That way, there would still be a gradient of pokemon strengths available for the single-player mode, but many more pokemon would be viable in the competitive scene, and Smogon wouldn't have to make up as many tiers to house them all, because battling would be mostly up to player skill instead of being mostly up to the base stats of the pokemon used (basically, imagine if there were only NFE, UU, OU and Uber - there would be far more pokemon in the middle two tiers, and pokemon in BL would ideally be brought into OU or UU).

I highly doubt the Smogon tiering system is or ever will be at the forefront of Gamefreak's minds as they design their game. What a pipe dream.

Mega evolutions for pokemon that are already pretty strong don't make sense, and the pokemon that could use a mega evolution would be much better off with either a permanent linear evolution (such as Mawile evolving permanently into another pokemon) or a horizontal/split evolution (like Kirlia > Gardevoir/Gallade)

Mega Evolutions make perfect sense for that exact reason. What appeals more than a powerful character to a power-hungry child than an EVEN MORE POWERFUL version of the same character?

You're approaching Pokémon from the worst angle possible and ignoring all the other, reasonable points of view. Kindly quit ruining everyone else's day with your downer attitude.

 

[Lord Raiden]

Pokémon is a JRPG, mainly marketed towards children. What you're complaining about here is inherent to the genre.

The BST gap is 540. Arceus = 720 and Sunkern = 180.

And again, Pokémon is a JRPG marketed towards children

If I'm ruining your day with a opposing opinion, you probably shouldn't be on the internet.

And, as an aside, I was only referring to the base stat totals of evolved forms.

A few people here have said that Pokemon is a game for children; this is not true. Pokemon has changed as the years have gone by and the players who stuck around aged. Pokemon has kept the same child-friendly aesthetic, but the core of the game-the battling-has gotten deeper and richer over time.

Why would gamefreak even bother with power items, IVs, and creating complex relationships with types, abilities, moves, and natures if this was purely a colorful game to distract children from their multiplication tables?

Children have little to gain from those things, because they can only really be appreciated by older players (teenagers and up).

Anyways, Long story short; This is Gamefreak's game; they know perfectly well and have probably thought of more ways to fix this than you have reasons to yell about. Calm down, be patient, and wait a bit. Heck, don't even buy X or Y until Smogon sorts things out, or just don't buy it all. Meanwhile, I will be flying about on my sexy Mega Absol.

I never yelled.

You were the one using capital letters.

Someone else replied to me and mentioned Whimsicott in terms of things that were forecasted to be weak or strong before their release. This is true, but the difference here is that Lucario is already a strong pokemon and it has been confirmed that he will be getting more base stats for his mega-evolution.

I'm not saying that the game has been ruined already, I'm saying that I'm concerned, and I brought this whole thing up because I'm surprised that everbody else is ignoring it, especially considering how severe the power creep has gotten with generation five.

 

[R_N]

Is there any particular reason that Dedenne being a pikaclone is setting everyone off now and not, you know, the past 4 pika clones

is it seriously just the fact that the sugimori art has it in raichu colors

 

[the24th]

I would just like to chime in Lord Raiden, before this goes too far, *oh wait,* that, as has been said, you, and others, cannot reasonably judge the viability, or the "brokenness," of these Mega Pokemon without having a full list of Mons that can MEvo. That is why the tiers exist, created and maintained by people who can accurately gauge competitive viability, who can be easily trusted to do so for their experience and integrity to Smogon.

Because of your lack of information upon which you can base your claims, your say is no better than anyone else's at this point.

Can't we all just stick to speculating game mechanics so that we may then move forward with competitive discussion when it is appropriate?

Mega evos can only be used once per round, on per team (or once per match, they aren't very clear).

I'd like to infer that, based on past game mechanics and held item usage, any number of Pokemon that can MEvo (up to 6 of course), can be in your party holding a MegaStone, but only one MegaStone may be activated per battle, restricting MEvo on your side for its remainder, even if the Pokemon you MEvoed faints. I won't go into too much else detail, for I've discussed this with another area of this forum site (Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II [Mega Pokemon]), and others deemed this plausible.

EDIT: I will add that this alone likely hampers strategies solely based around MEvoed Pokemon, again as you may only MEvo once, because GF acknowledges their power. This restriction is the balancing factor.

 

[Jimmyftw]

I would like to add that MEvo does not over-centralize the metagame at all because you are only limited to one per team. If anything, I believe MEvo will help to diversity the playstyle as MEvo adds a whole new layer of unpredictability and mind game.

MEvo is now a permanent addition to the game so complaining about it is futile.

I do agree with @Lord Raiden that Pokemon is not just a kid's games. Any successful franchise would keep a close eye on their consumer demographic, hence the reason why Gamefreak implemented complex materials into the game. For instance, I doubt a kid can solve RSE Regi puzzle all by him/herself without guidebook.

Also can I also have a shiny Fenniken too? :D

 

[Lord Raiden]

I would just like to chime in Lord Raiden, before this goes too far, *oh wait,* that, as has been said, you, and others, cannot reasonably judge the viability, or the "brokenness," of these Mega Pokemon without having a full list of Mons that can MEvo. That is why the tiers exist, created and maintained by people who can accurately gauge competitive viability, who can be easily trusted to do so for their experience and integrity to Smogon.

Because of your lack of information upon which you can base your claims, your say, is no better than anyone else's at this point.

I've brought up my point, and I can't think of anything else regarding it that needs to be added. In addition, I have taken things a bit too far away from the purpose of the thread.

However, none of the replies really did anything to assuage my concerns, and instead I was mostly met with hostility, which seemed to be baseless.

Thus, I am left to infer that the source of the hostility is because I supplied an opinion that opposed the more popular opinions.

This is disappointing.

 

[the24th]

I've brought up my point, and I can't think of anything else regarding it that needs to be added. In addition, I have taken things a bit too far away from the purpose of the thread.

However, none of the replies really did anything to assuage my concerns, and instead I was mostly met with hostility, which seemed to be baseless.

Thus, I am left to infer that the source of the hostility is because I supplied an opinion that opposed the more popular opinions.

This is disappointing.

I will return by saying that I do agree with some of your claims about the game itself. But right now, none of us can accurately judge one Mega Pokemon with respect to another, or even the other tiers, for the Kalos Pokedex just isn't "big enough" yet, if you get what I mean. I can bet that GF will come through. They have for you up to this point, right? Even amidst people who despise every Post Gen III game. All anyone can ask for is time...and to each Pokemon his own viability.

I would like to add that MEvo does not over-centralize the metagame at all because you are only limited to one per team. If anything, I believe MEvo will help to diversity the playstyle as MEvo adds a whole new layer of unpredictability and mind game.

MEvo is now a permanent addition to the game so complaining about it is futile.

I do agree with @Lord Raiden that Pokemon is not just a kid's games. Any successful franchise would keep a close eye on their consumer demographic, hence the reason why Gamefreak implemented complex materials into the game. For instance, I doubt a kid can solve RSE Regi puzzle all by him/herself without guidebook.

Also can I also have a shiny Fenniken too? :D

Exactly :) And I have a feeling the new shiny forms are going to be very vibrant for the most part, the way things are looking (Sylveon, Fennekin, soon to be etc...)

 

[ButtonBasher]

Just my two cents, but I'm still holding more concern over what the Pokémon-Amie will enhance and how far moreso than any Mega Evolutions. The Mevos already have restrictions, and while they say stat increases, it's not really known how much of an increase they give yet, is it?

For me, the most interesting thing that's come out is seeing that in the doubles video, the HP stat all had 31IVs. It gives me hope that there's a 'gene' balancer/enhancer available like a level balancer during WiFi battles, but in reality it's like they were just bred/caught/created like that.

 

[Quark]

Also, it will overrun/over-centralize the metagame, because all you would really need to do is "mega-evolve" and then sweep with something like Mega Lucario; this will result in an increased use of moves like Knock Off, Thief, and Trick, because everybody will be busy trying to stop each other from mega-evolving.

I believe this was addressed before with something like "Oh no, strategy"

Mega evolutions for pokemon that are already pretty strong don't make sense, and the pokemon that could use a mega evolution would be much better off with either a permanent linear evolution (such as Mawile evolving permanently into another pokemon) or a horizontal/split evolution (like Kirlia > Gardevoir/Gallade)

I believe we have no evidence that they won't give an evolution to a mega evolving Pokemon. Game freak could very easily give pikachu a mega evo instead of raichu, or give mawile a normal evolution in the next gen, just probably not now

 

[the24th]

Just my two cents, but I'm still holding more concern over what the Pokémon-Amie will enhance and how far moreso than any Mega Evolutions. The Mevos already have restrictions, and while they say stat increases, it's not really known how much of an increase they give yet, is it?

For me, the most interesting thing that's come out is seeing that in the doubles video, the HP stat all had 31IVs. It gives me hope that there's a 'gene' balancer/enhancer available like a level balancer during WiFi battles, but in reality it's like they were just bred/caught/created like that.

It has been stated that Pokemon Amie will affect Crit likelihood (why people are concerned with Sylveon having taken a ridiculously boosted Hydro Pump). What is also being speculated is the possibility that it may also give players some form of control over IVs. There's both direct and indirect evidence supporting or refuting this claim.

 

[Fundance]

Lord Raiden, you're entirely basing your view of Mega Evolutions based on what we know of the overall metagame inherent in XY, which right now is next to nothing at all.

For all you know, there could be a very practical and widely distributed counter to mega-evolutions, drastically reducing their effect in battle.
There could be a much wider selection of mega-evolutions than we think, making it so that there's hardly any centralisation at all.
There could be a plethora of new moves introduced which create new trends in battling that offset power creep (moves like Parting Shot for example)
We don't even know the matchups for mega evolutions yet. Simply having roided up stats isn't going to prevent certain pokemon from being hard countered by surprising things.

Sounds to me like you're one of those 'mindless consumers of the media' yourself, only more on the side who have been trained not to trust new and unusual changes to familiar things. Talk about double standards!

 

[Count Bleck]

I've brought up my point, and I can't think of anything else regarding it that needs to be added. In addition, I have taken things a bit too far away from the purpose of the thread.

However, none of the replies really did anything to assuage my concerns, and instead I was mostly met with hostility, which seemed to be baseless.

Thus, I am left to infer that the source of the hostility is because I supplied an opinion that opposed the more popular opinions.

This is disappointing.

It's less of the popular opinion and more of "We've been through this song and dance 300 times per gen, and its getting very old." Also I will admitt yell was the wrong word to use, and I mistook you you for one of the more rash minded people (like freaking genwunners...) and replied a little harsher than needed. however, my stance still stands; we'll have to wait and see how this pans out before judgement.

 

[the24th]

What I would like to know is whether MegaStones will be considered "the same" item or specific (Blazikenite, Lucarionite, etc.) for Item Clause reasons. If they are in fact specific, then more than one Pokemon that can MEvo actually can be on your team, and because you have (reasonably 2) of these Pokemon in your team), attacks that remove these items (Knock-Off, Snatch, etc) will become not as effective as one might think, but Embargo's effectiveness will definitely increase.

 

[Fundance]

I don't think knock off/embargo is going to work against megastones.

Once your pokemon has already mega-evolved, removing the stone probably won't cause it to return to its previous form. Also I get the feeling that Embargo isn't going to block them from being used to M-volve.

well knockoff might work, but you'd have to use it before the Pokemon mega-evolves. And I can see a lot of players just using it the first turn they can.
Now the question is...does mega-evolving take priority in a turn? For example...if your pokemon is slower than your opponent, do you mega-evolve at the start of the turn before either pokemon gets to attack, or does your opponent attack first and then your pokemon mega-evolves?

 

[the24th]

Lord Raiden, you're entirely basing your view of Mega Evolutions based on what we know of the overall metagame inherent in XY, which right now is next to nothing at all.

For all you know, there could be a very practical and widely distributed counter to mega-evolutions, drastically reducing their effect in battle.
There could be a much wider selection of mega-evolutions than we think, making it so that there's hardly any centralisation at all.
There could be a plethora of new moves introduced which create new trends in battling that offset power creep (moves like Parting Shot for example)
We don't even know the matchups for mega evolutions yet. Simply having roided up stats isn't going to prevent certain pokemon from being hard countered by surprising things.

Sounds to me like you're one of those 'mindless consumers of the media' yourself, only more on the side who have been trained not to trust new and unusual changes to familiar things. Talk about double standards!

It's less of the popular opinion and more of "We've been through this song and dance 300 times per gen, and its getting very old." Also I will admitt yell was the wrong word to use, and I mistook you you for one of the more rash minded people (like freaking genwunners...) and replied a little harsher than needed. however, my stance still stands; we'll have to wait and see how this pans out before judgement.

What has been said, has been said, and I think that Lord Raiden has had his say, and people have opposed his stance. CaN We MoVe OoOoN? The Internet peoplez can be very harsh...peoplez can be harsh...

 

[Seil]

Thus, I am left to infer that the source of the hostility is because I supplied an opinion that opposed the more popular opinions.

This is disappointing.

I find this ironic considering this:

Does anybody else here feel even remotely like this, or are you all mindless consumers of videogame media?

Someone who starts out with hostility isn't generally met with rainbows and sunshine. You started off by essentially attacking everyone who has a different viewpoint than you. It stands to reason that people would take offense.

Personally, I'm indifferent toward mega evolution as it stands. I'm quite interested in learning more about it, though. I don't expect it to be as broken as you fear, though. If anything, I think the metagame could use some shaking up and things like a new type, mega evolutions and, potentially, amie can do that. So I'm quite interested in most of the new features this generation. But that's just my opinion, just as your opinion is your own.

 

[Quark]

I don't think knock off/embargo is going to work against megastones.

Once your pokemon has already mega-evolved, removing the stone probably won't cause it to return to its previous form. Also I get the feeling that Embargo isn't going to block them from being used to M-volve.

well knockoff might work, but you'd have to use it before the Pokemon mega-evolves. And I can see a lot of players just using it the first turn they can.
Now the question is...does mega-evolving take priority in a turn? For example...if your pokemon is slower than your opponent, do you mega-evolve at the start of the turn before either pokemon gets to attack, or does your opponent attack first and then your pokemon mega-evolves?

you could try and predict a switch with knock off
According to bulbapedia, embargo can block fling, which uses an item. Maybe it could block MEvo's in the same manner.

 

[the24th]

I don't think knock off/embargo is going to work against megastones.

Once your pokemon has already mega-evolved, removing the stone probably won't cause it to return to its previous form. Also I get the feeling that Embargo isn't going to block them from being used to M-volve.

well knockoff might work, but you'd have to use it before the Pokemon mega-evolves. And I can see a lot of players just using it the first turn they can.
Now the question is...does mega-evolving take priority in a turn? For example...if your pokemon is slower than your opponent, do you mega-evolve at the start of the turn before either pokemon gets to attack, or does your opponent attack first and then your pokemon mega-evolves?

Of course, you'd have to do it before they MEvo, but an item is an item (just as @Quark implied)...and I asked the same question in another thread. We can't determine MEvo's priority however, because you can't not MEvo Mewtwo (the only capable Pokemon) in the Demo and determine from a speed tie with Crobat.

 

[Jimmyftw]

It gives me hope that there's a 'gene' balancer/enhancer available like a level balancer during WiFi battles, but in reality it's like they were just bred/caught/created like that.

Hmm... Very nice. I like this idea a lot. It would be great if all IVs are set to the maximum when you are having a wifi battle or competitive tournament, much like the level balancing they did. (You can also choose to set some IVs to zero maybe for things like Trickroom?) I see this as a possible solution to the hassle of IVs. IVs purpose is to make every Pokemon unique, but competitive battlers don't like imperfect IVs. This way, we can have the best of both worlds.

 

[Quark]

the priority of MEvo'ing has got me curious. Maybe they'll add a move like pursuit for Mega Evolution, but that might be to predictable.

 

[the24th]

the priority of MEvo'ing has got me curious. Maybe they'll add a move like pursuit for Mega Evolution, but that might be to predictable.

It depends exactly what you mean...it could be "[Pokemon] sensed a radiating energy and attacked!" the way you mean it...which might see just as much use as Pursuit...interesting proposition.

This is what you call healthy speculation (well-intended back and forth...not hostility).

Thumbs up to @Jimmyftw @ButtonBasher @Quark and myself :p

Hmm... Very nice. I like this idea a lot. It would be great if all IVs are set to the maximum when you are having a wifi battle or competitive tournament, much like the level balancing they did. (You can also choose to set some IVs to zero maybe for things like Trickroom?) I see this as a possible solution to the hassle of IVs. IVs purpose is to make every Pokemon unique, but competitive battlers don't like imperfect IVs. This way, we can have the best of both worlds.

Beautif(ly) :p I think this would be widely appreciated, for it separates the competitive aspect of Pokemon, from the enjoyment of the story and game itself :)

 

[Fundance]

That is a nice idea, but it also sort of removes the satisfaction of breeding for strong pokemon.

I would rather they simply gave more means to achieve perfect IV's through in game means, breeding, etc. Otherwise how are we meant to make use of Hidden Power if all IV's are perfect? That is assuming they don't completely change hidden power's mechanics.

 

[the24th]

That is a nice idea, but it also sort of removes the satisfaction of breeding for strong pokemon.

I would rather they simply gave more means to achieve perfect IV's through in game means, breeding, etc. Otherwise how are we meant to make use of Hidden Power if all IV's are perfect? That is assuming they don't completely change hidden power's mechanics.

Yes, I agree that "Genetic Engineering" so to speak would be more akin to breeding and reaping the rewards of your effort, but, as you said, it is a nice thought.
They may just as well change the mechanics of Hidden Power with the introduction of Fairy type, and especially if they decide to go your suggested route. Feasible I think, and I hope the evidence we've been given regarding Genetics does indeed point us in that direction.