1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon you underachieve with

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by DarkBlazeR, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    We've all been there - you've seen Pokémon that everyone says is amazing, and that have been used very successfully against you in the past. You promise yourself that you'll build your next team around it; but when you actually use it, it always seems to fall flat. Perhaps it's more difficult to switch in than you hoped, maybe its power is underwhelming, or it could be fodder for too many things. Either way, I think we've all met one of these before - in the same way people really grow attached to certain Pokémon they find easy to use or offer a high reward, people shun Pokémon they struggle with. What Pokémon can you just not seem to get to work the way you want to?

    Note that these aren't necessarily things that are bad in the current metagame. Specifically, these are the Pokémon that you personally find difficult to use for some reason or another, despite understanding what makes them good.


    Here's three Pokémon I've found incredibly frustrating to use throughout the 5th generation:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Forretress has always been something that I've hated with a passion since I started competitive battling in early D/P. Not because it was bad, but because I could just never seem to get anything out of it. Since the dawn of B/W, that hasn't changed much, if at all. It has two key roles - setting hazards and spinning. The biggest problem I've found is that Forretress isn't particularly good at doing either. It costs you so much momentum on non-stall teams - setting up Spikes is just a cue for all kinds of nasty things like SubCM Jirachi to come in and set up all over you. Volt Switch sort of mitigates this, but every time you use it is another turn you're not setting up hazards. It also sucks at spinning as it can't even tickle any of the common defensive spin blockers without Toxic (which is a wasted moveslot imo). The other issue is that I have to invest heavily in Sp. Defense if I want Forretress to be able to tank things like Draco Meteors and Shadow Balls - but by doing so, it struggles to withstand strong physical hits - most high BP physical attacks will 2HKO you without Defense investment. Also, most of the time I'd much rather be using Skarmory, due to having a Ground immunity, reliable recovery and Whirlwind, but due to team building constraints (i.e. I need a spinner), I have no choice. ;__;

    Reuniclus is probably the best example of something that I loathe to face yet can't stand to use. Pretty much every time I've ever tried to ladder with a defensive team, my opponent has brought CM Reuniclus. It is an absolute nightmare for stall to deal with, even if I run Scarf Tyranitar. However, every time I've used it, it just gets flat out 2HKOd by something it can't boost quickly enough to threaten (e.g. Specs Hydro Pumps, Sand Force boosted Earthquake from Landorus, Specs Hurricane, CB U-turn etc). Likewise, the OTR set has cleaned up my offensive teams, yet I've never been able to sweep with it - the biggest dilemma comes down to whether or not to stick with Psychic/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast, or forego something to run HP [Fire] to deal with Scizor/Genesect. I'm never satisfied with the decision I make, and come out of battles wishing I had chosen the other move. Also, anyone who has every played R/B/Y knows that misses come at the worst possible times; fuck Focus Miss. With it being harder to set up safely now as well due to the blitzkrieg offensive nature of the metagame since the release of BW2, I just can't see myself using Reuniclus anytime soon.

    Thundurus-T is a much more recent example, but it just pains me so much that everyone else seems to be having so much success with it, yet it does absolutely nothing for me. This mainly down to the fact that it can't switch in on much - the Electric/Ground immunities are nice but they're always paired with Ice moves. Its Stealth Rock weakness puts quite a big timer on it, which is annoying when you consider it often has to make use of Volt Switch. Its frailty, exacerbated by its SR weakness, combined with its slightly-above-average Speed makes it very difficult to set up, and LO recoil makes short work of it when it does manage to get a boost. Its Speed tier is definitely the most annoying thing about it though - every common offensive 'mon can revenge kill it if it doesn't run Agility, and even if it does it has to contend with the ubiquitous Mamoswine and its fearsome LO Ice Shard.


    Go ahead, share your woes. This is more than just a thread to rant in though - I'm encouraging you guys to be constructive. If you're having trouble using a particular Pokémon, you can post here looking for advice on how to use it more effectively.
  2. emirinho

    emirinho

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    294
    Hello,

    In order for someone to have 'success' with a pokemon he must use the right partners and the right strategy for that pokemon. You must cover that pokemon's weaknesses with the other pokemons in the party

    Another issue that has to be satisfied in order for someone to have success with a pokemon is knowing what you actually want with a specific pokemon. You must know the pokemon's capabilities and you must not exceed them or you will lose the pokemon.Plus, it also depends on what type of team you are using. Not all sets of a certain pokemon work on all types of teams.

    Lets take the thundurus-t as an example. Thundurus-t can take huge advantage of rain, it can be a rain counter, it can be used as a revenge killer, scouter etc. However, you must take in mind the fact that Thundurus-t is extremely fragile and it is 25% weak to SR. So you must put a spinner and good walls on your team.
    If you are using a balanced team that the scarfed version is the best. You can also use it on rain teams. One thing i now from my experience is that you shouldnt use thundurus-t on fully offensive teams.
  3. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Living in a world gone plastic
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,881
    Whatever I do, I just seem to fail using skarmory. I just can never find the times to get it in and set up spikes, so it often winds up being just a waste of a moveslot. As I often have to roost straight away, it's difficult to do anything else.

    I've also never been able to use dragonite to any great effect. The offensive ones are terrible for me, but then again they will never be used now that there are so many better dragons out there. I recently tried a defensive one with tons of support on a rain team and again it failed.

    I also can't seem to make volt-turn work effectively, and of course fail with all terrible pokes (virizion lol)
  4. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,619
    Definitely agree with Forretress, can never seem to use that right.

    Another one for me, curiously is Tyranitar. I'mc ertain this is why I am primarily a Rain player, but I can never seem to use Tyranitar to its full effectiveness. For me it always either seems to die too easily or fail to do any significant damage, whereas when used against me it always ends up being a terrific tank. Quite curious.
  5. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,307
    Latias is something i hate to face, but i just can't use it. Dragon Pulse is always too weak without SpA investment and i could never gather enough boosts to sweep with it i am also always using the wrong 4th move i get statused when i lack substitute and when i can't remove the steel types i don't run HP Fire.

    I also could never really abuse Dragonite outside of the CB set, but this is propably becase i am generally bad at removing/keeping entry hazards of the field consistently wich is also why i fail with Volcarona.

    I am also not too great with sun teams though this is likely because rarely ever play sun.
  6. Admiral Bobbery

    Admiral Bobbery

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    [​IMG]

    Just can't seem to use Donphan correctly at all. He has great attack, great defense, he can spin and set up rocks, and when I face it, it can sometimes pose a real threat. But I just can't seem to use him right myself. Honestly, he doesn't seem like tat great of a Pokemon to me, but many great players use him more than effectively.


    [​IMG]

    Don't even get me started on this one. For some reason, when others use this guy, he stalls me to Hell and back. But when it's MY turn to use the water fox, he absolutely sucks. I just have no idea how to use him at all.

    There are of course, many others like Chansey, Gothitelle, Hippowdon, Lilligant, non-choiced Rotom-W, Bronzong, Skarmory, but the one that pisses me off the most is this little gal:

    [​IMG]

    Holy Mother of God, this is so annoying. Latias should be a given! Her stats and movepool are amazing for a tank, but I just can't seem to use her in the right way. She always ends up either dying too quickly or not being useful enough to warrant me keeping her. An Offensive one is pretty much useless considering Latios does it better, which just leaves the defensive version. But for some reason, I just can't use her well. She stumps me, she really does.
  7. Zacchaeus

    Zacchaeus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,261
    Reuniclus just isn't good, it's not a matter of your ability. Personally I can never use Skarmory or Blissey to great effect, whether they are separate or together. I know that they are both good and have found niches that only they can specifically fill respectively, but whenever I try to use them they just don't live up to their reputations
  8. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,603
    I can't necessarily agree on Vaporeon because I haven't used it since DPP, but these two I can totally agree with. I'm not as bad with Donphan (it's a staple on my sun teams and its physically defensive set annoys garchomp and other 4x ice weak dragons besides mixmence and the rare special/mixnite), but I just can never get Latias to work correctly. I don't know if it's the fact that she can barely do anything to Tyranitar and is scared of Pursuit or that she is underpowered as an offensive Pokemon, but I just cannot seem to do it right.

    [​IMG]
    This one seems to be pretty popular, but I find it really hard to do anything of worth with it. It's another Pursuit weak Pokemon and is also screwed over by Scarf Genesect (it needs a ton of bulk to survive a 52 Atk neutral U-turn).
  9. DarkVisions

    DarkVisions

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    I personally think you have to take very special care with what sets and EV spreads you use with each member on your team to make sure you don't have members competing to fill the same roll. You also want to consider who is already on your team and what they're lacking, then consider if the mon you're trying to choose is going to fill that gap or widen it.

    Considering what you already have is even more important for mons like Dragonite and Latias who can (very effectively) play both heavy offense and stall (and everything in between).

    @OP: I find that when I try to build a team based around one single mon on my team, the team as a whole tends to do really bad since several roles/aspects get left out easier when I'm focusing on covering for just one or two teammates. Instead, I try to put together a team that I like, play a few battles with it and start swapping members around, changing sets, ect. until I find a balance that wins a lot.

    I have always had a hard time using Latias and donphan (I usually much preferred to play with Latios and Starmie to fill those same rolls), and yet by moving around teammates and altering sets, ect. I've actually been able to use both on my sun team to great effect. Likewise after failing a bunch I was finally able to fit forretress on a team successfully.

    The only current one I'm having a lot of issues with right now is Thundurus-T. To be honest I just find it way too frail to do it's job well, and I'm struggling immensely trying to get it to work on a team right now. I'm seriously considering that leftovers + agility set might be more effective than LO + agility since LO just exacerbates it's already low defenses and hp, but I'm not sure what kind of OHKOs will be missed without LO.

    One of the best pieces of advice I can give? Don't rely on the smogon analysis page. It's a great starting place, but I find that many of those sets and spreads work well for specific teammates but don't really fit on every team. You need to have an understanding of why they make certain spreads the way they do and learn to adjust to fit your team's needs.
  10. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    511
    I can definitely agree with being underwhelmed by Forretress and Donphan, I don't know what it is. The stats should speak for themselves but I still find my self using both of these as death fodder when I use them on my teams. I've seen top players use both of these to full effect but it's completely the reverse when I use them. The one single Pokemon I cannot use at all is none other than Starmie, another common spinner in OU. I know how people use it, and I know exactly what it does but when I use it, it all goes horribly wrong. Spinners in general are Pokemon that I have trouble using, except Tentacruel since it has the bulk plus Rain Dish for some recovery. Starmie also has recovery but it really does not have the bulk to Recover safely, and you need to invest heavily in your defensive stats to do so compromising your offensive power. I don't know, I never really liked Starmie, or the fact 99% of the time I used it, it would die straight after spinning which was what I hated most. I tried bulky Starmie just to see if that was any better, but you cannot beat what you could with an offensive set (Dragonite, Garchomp, bulky waters) and it's incredibly frustrating. I always try to avoid using it in my teams, and even avoid recommending it to others if possible. I have so many teams where it would theoretically fit in perfect, but it never works out that way.
  11. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    629
    [​IMG]
    90 | 92 | 75 | 92 | 85 | 60

    Abomasow, this guy omg I hate facing him it always stall me or just outright surprise me with its good typing and movepool. Also I really want to make a good hail team, but I just cant use this guy, everytime I use him I just bail so hard and its so frustrating. Everyone else seems to make a good use off it, but I just cant and I really just want to be able to use at least mediocre..



    [​IMG]
    65 | 65 | 60 | 130 | 95 | 110

    Everytime I try to use Espeon it just goes to hell.. wen trying to make offensive teams where I really cant afford a spinner, I have to use this cat. Sure I love the mon itself but it really just doesnt work out for me and everyone else using it against me just pisses me off so much because I just cant get past it sometimes.



    [​IMG]
    110 | 65 | 75 | 125 | 85 | 30

    Reuniclus is a real risk reward pokemon and I never make it work, as this guy is maybe one off my favourite mons in BW I really dont stand to use it as the CM set never works for me, and the OTR set just doesnt seem to hit hard enough, but when others use it those sets are just smashing me like there was nothing. I really dont know what to do and I will not use this guy in my future teams any time soon.
  12. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,088
    [​IMG]

    I don't know why this always happens, but whenever I change my team to accommodate a weakness, or to try out something new, the entire ladder changes gears to abuse the hole I just opened up to cover the one that I struggled with for 30-40 matches. It's infuriating, and it always happened to me when I would try to use Latias.

    [​IMG]

    Latios never hit hard enough, like he's always done against me. Scarf failed to revenge (with Draco, mind you) what should have been easy KOs and to get any work out of the Specs set I had to use a Modest set that mimicked the Hydreigon he replaced (of course, the Jellicents and Gyaradoses I needed Thunderbolt for never showed up) to get my KOs.

    Oh! Also: Any Pokémon that uses Scald, ever. It rarely, if ever, burns when it has about a 70% rate against me. I haven't used it frequently because I prefer balls-to-the-walls offense, but I had a game a week ago where this joker and I were trading Scalds and Sludge Bombs with my Jellicent and his Tentacruel, both fishing for status. After about ten turns, he gets the Poison and starts Protect stalling while I'm sitting there screaming in frustration at how Scald just won't burn. Fuck all of that.
  13. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    571
    I've always had poor results with forretress. It's setup fodder for everything and I find myself rarely having more than 1 or 2 opportunities to spin before it's dead. I often can't even find a chance to set up rocks with it.
  14. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Yup I had bad experiences with Forretress too; the thing is so susceptible to many kinds of attacks that it's so hard to find time to spin, set hazards, and cover its walling role somehow. The fact that it's weak to SR and Spikes, can't take Special attacks at all (except Specially Defensive versions, that are 2HKO'd by strong neutra attacks like Terrakion's Close Combat or Haxorus' banded Earthquake, or similar) means even fulfilling its spinning role is painful, especially if the opponent has a Ferrothorn. It also doesn't have reliable recovery and has a huge 4MSS since you may want EQ, Volt Switch, Gyro Ball, HP Ice, Toxic depending on the situation, and that's besides the mandatory moves (Spin and a hazard of some sort). Thundurus-T was also a letdown for me, yeah it's powerful and wrecks things but it need LO and maybe NP to do that, and SR weakness + recoil are very fast to take it to the point it's useless and even a resisted attack from a Scarfer will kill it. Both of those have been used to huge success by other players (prolly better than me, but w/e), but I just don't manage to get them to work correctly.

    However, the most troubling for me to use effectively is...

    [​IMG]

    Yeah, Tyranitar. I find its typing one of the worst around, the only benefit being the fact that Rock typing means SpD boost in sandstorm. Everything else is just bad, weaknesses to Grass, Ground, Water, Fighting x4, Bug and Steel mean that basically everything has a good attack to hit it with; it's also crippled hard by status, and while the ability to go mixed is great, it often doesn't pack enough firepower to KO what it need to (see Ferrothorn and Fire Blast). The only thing it seems to do well is trapping Lati@s, but with Genesect available that's a non-issue most of the times, and Hippowdon is preferred basically 100% of the times on my teams. Again, I'm probably biased on the subject; the weird thing is that I absolutely love to see sets like CBTar played by a competent player, but never managed to do it myself; the only set vaguely successful that I managed to play was Boah (everyone predicted something else, usually leading to their Gliscor dead or something like that).
  15. Modulo

    Modulo

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Well, here are the pokés I don´t really like:
    [​IMG]
    Ugh, that guy is so annoying. If it goes against me, it flinch-haxxes even resists to death; if I use it, it will make the opponent flinch once or twice and paralyzes 1-2 foes the opponent will simply death-fodder later or have a Chansey´s Heal Bell for. At least Wish-passing works really well on my latest team (I always had problems getting Wish going beforehand).
    [​IMG]
    Yeah, you´re looking at the right poké. It´s highly annoying to play against, since I often don´t have many resists to both of his STABs, and in case of Volt Switch, sometimes a resist is just not enough, since it will mean he´ll just bring in an appropriate poké for my resist. However, if I use him, I find he´s too slow without a scarf, but just not as bulky as I wish with a scarf. Additionally, somehow his damage output seems kind of lacking to me if I don´t run Life Orb, which also takes away precious bulk. I can´t seem to use it right.
    [​IMG]

    I hate to admit this. I really do. Vaporeon was one of my favourites to use in 4th gen; walling half of the metagame and healing the teammates with Wish.
    However, things were about to chance with the transition to BW. I found Vaporeon to be terribly inefficient. First, to use Hydration to its fullest extent, I would need rain, which meant Politoed, which meant I would already use a poké to put status on all of my opponents and just do stuff similar to Vaporeon´s range.
    Also, Vaporeon seems to hate weather matchups. If the opponent is running Rain, he has lots and lots of resistances as well as threats to Vaporeon. If the opponent is running any other kind of weather, Vaporeon mostly can´t pull a switch to Poli because of their similar typing, but is endangered to lose her advantages in the rain.
    Finally, with the metagame being more offensive, the number of pokés capable of 2HKOing Vappy increased just as the number of Choice users decreased; both of which are environmental factors I don´t like for Vappy. Sorry Vappy, but unfortunately this time I won´t choose you.


    Other than that, many pokés don´t work out for me with all of their sets.
    Example:
    [​IMG]
    When I first saw Reuniclus I thought: Wow. Amazing abilities, great stats, Trick Room to make up for its low Speed... Naturally, the first set I used with this was the Trick Roomer, and it has been quite successful, even in the first days of BW2, since this set is very hard to revenge kill; and if it´s walled, it can simply come back in and attempt another sweep later.
    On another team, I decided I needed a CMer; so I gave him a shot. It turned out terribly for me; having to take a hit before dishing out can SO hinder a sweeping attempt; and even at 252/252+ I didn´t find he was bulky enough to take hits from pokés switching in as I set up the first CM. For me, Latias just works so much better as a CMer.

    Enough rambling.
  16. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Ahah, nice topic.
    I have a lot of things that i can not use at all. Tyranitar for example, i hate it, it just have so many weaknesses, its too slow to do anything against offensive pokemon, even scarf tar seems to never do nothing, yeah it can kill Starmie, gengar, and the lati@s but its speed is still... just not enough. I have to say that a lot of dragon types are not that good as i expect. Any time i use some dragon there is still something that can stop my sweep. I used garchomp for example, with a lot of set, and well i dont know if its just me but it cant do that much in this meta. Its too slow (yeah slow, even with 102 speed) and if you scarf it its not going to kill anything, and its maybe outclassed by Mence. The problem is, that if you click that outrage botton, then you will be revenge killed easily. I have never did a successfull sweep with Garchomp or Dragonite for example, its seems that scizor, Mamoswine, scarfed pokemon are everywhere.
  17. ChrisTehAwesome

    ChrisTehAwesome

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    297
    I have a big problem using Scarf Genesect. Its gotten so bad that I only use Ebelt Rock Polish sets now. Whenever I use scarf I always seem to run into teams with Protect and the right switch ins for my moves. I hate locking myself in with this guy, and I never seem to predict correctly.

    Another one is Pursuit Trappers, specifically Scizor. Whenever I use pursuit, it never works. Gengar always roasts me with HP fire before I can pursuit it. BP is a superior choice for me in almost every case.
  18. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,040
    Good to see I'm not the only person who can't use Latias. It's not only that, I hardly ever ever have trouble against it. I just want to see her amaziness. ;-;
  19. Yousername

    Yousername

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    I LOVE using Gliscor, Heatran, and Rotom-W. they're the most reliable pokemon for me and have been on nearly all my weatherless teams. Scizor and Latias are also pokemon I love using. I just always feel comfortable using them. This feeling is probably within several players, just with different pokemon.

    As for a pokemon that I just outright stink at using, the number one spot goes to Jirachi. I don't know why, I just can't play well with Jirachi no matter what set it is. Landorus-T is another mention, but not as much as Jirachi. Whenever I bring him out, he somehow finds a way to get himself either burned or poisoned and that pretty much nullifies him, so when I think of using Landorus-T, I usually just pick Gliscor
  20. BlankZero

    BlankZero
    is a Tutor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,838
    Lati@s is hard for me to run. One feels super fragile, while the other is good and bulky, but so easily destroyed as it lacks the power.

    Terrakion too. It's a grand pokemon, but so many things in the meta have evolved to destroy it and everyone runs a Terrakion counter of some sort, making it harder and harder to run it effectively in all matches.
  21. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    I find it surprising that Latias is such a tough pokemon for some people to play, because it's one of my own favorite set up sweepers in the whole meta. Since I'm a big fan of SubCM pokes (Keldeo, Latias, Jirachi, the whole crew) it's always come to me naturally when i played Latias. I've even used Specs Latias efficiently; a recent team of mine used it, and I have to say it's one of the best tanks I've ever used. Needless to say, here's a tip from my own experiences with Latias:
    ~Be Familiar. Latias is all about knowing who you can set up on, knowing who is going to try to counter you, and knowing just how much you have to boost in order to KO a foe. Much of it as based on experience; just to know the capabilities of Latias and what it can/can't handle. All Latias really needs to do it get to +2 and behind a Sub, and it can kill at least 2-3 pokemon. You just need to know when you can set up and when you can't. Some great pokemon to set up on are Ninetales, Magnezone, Slowbro, and Steels without Gyro Ball. Latias isn't the type of pokemon to just come in and start firing off attacks- nor is it a pokemon that once you set up to maybe +2 you can just sit back and relax. Latias uses the combination of her speed and bulk and moderate power to make hitting hard not necessary- because Substitute will be tanking the hit.

    Jirachi has also been fairly easy for me to play; I love the SubCM set, in a team with that same Specs Latias I got up to top 10 on PS! SpD is also great, but I don't like it nearly as much as I like SubCM. Anyway, I think the key to playing with Jirachi is keep hazards low, keep away from pokemon you can't touch, and be able to predict when you opponent is going to switch to force you out so you can cripple at least one more pokemon before you're forced to escape. I'm not exactly a fan of Wish, so if that's your problem I hear ya, but I'm a general fan of all the Paraflinching shenanigans. Knowledge is also a huge factor in playing Jirachi, because you need to know what pokemon seem as if they won't but WILL 2HKO you. Also know that Jirachi hates hazards, so having spin support/taunt somewhere is also really helpful.

    Here are some pokemon that i don't like playing with:

    [​IMG]
    Jolteon
    Really just the eevee evolutions in general, like Espeon and Vaporeon too, but Jolteon I especially hate. It's fast, yeah, but I always overestimate its power and its bulk. I don't like its coverage either; and I think that between hazards, volt switch, and LO against priority hitters it dies way too quickly.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite
    I'm probably the weirdest person alive because I don't like using Dragonite, but wait until you see what's after this. Dnite has always stumped me because I don't like spinning too often and many of my teams are hazard-weak. My problem with Dnite is its speed- I have to run ESpeed to cover it nearly every time I use it, because +1 just isn't enough- it can still be outsped by most scarfers and OHKO'd. I also frequently overestimate it's power; thinking that +1 Outrage can OHKO much more things than it actually can.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor
    This thing has really always stumped the heck out of me. I just don't get how everyone else is using this thing so well. Sure, it's powerful and has priority, but I ugh just don't like it. CB, SD, LO, heck even bulky just doesn't suit me. I think its coverage, speed, and the fact that nearly every one has a counter to it just gets to me. It seems to me as if Bullet Punch is the only thing Scizor is good at doing- since the fact that it's slow and predictable make U-turn really painful for me. Just like for other pokemon, I often overestimate its power as well- leaving pokemon like Latios at 1%, letting them KO my supposedly full health revenger. I've also never been really good at Pursuiting, because the decision between U-Turn and Pursuit may be easy for others but I always overthink and choose the wrong move. Egh, I just don't like this thing.
  22. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    629
    I really dont know what you guys are talking about when it comes to Thundurus-T ? With my experience its an awesome revenge killer and amazing late game cleaner. The best set is arguably Scarf woth Thunder in its hands. Its obvious that it needs rain for this and in rain this guy just wrecks havoc ! 2HKO'ing most off the meta with Thunder, it beats Donphan 1vs1 which can be huge against sun teams. But anyway, scarf is the best set and Agility/Nasty Plot doesnt work for me either because its too frail and with a Scarf it can just hit and run or just stay in. Also this guy is an awesome Genesect killer and pulls so many switches not even Ferrothorn at 60% ~ can tank two Thunders and that really speaks for it self. Sorry bout that but i really just want to get it out there that Scarf is the best set it can carry.
  23. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,380
    This thread is awesome! It really makes me feel a lot better knowing I'm not the only one who has problems with a few Pokemon....However I believe practice makes perfect, so if you use it enough and learn the do's and don'ts of a Pokemon it can be quite effective. But I have yet to find any success out of one specific type of role, spinning in OU.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    It seriously doesn't matter what team I'm using, or what EV spread they have. I can never find the opportunity to come in safely and spin away hazards, because everything hits so fucking hard in OU that I'm to afraid to send them in to spin! I have great success with Blastoise in UU, but that's probably because there isn't weather 24/7 that totally destroys Forretress and Donphan with boosted attacks. Things like Starmie and Donphan are useful attacking and spinning wise, so I feel like I waste them when I sacrifice them to spin. They feel almost like a waste of a team slot to me because of it, and it almost steers me away from using something like Volcarona or Dragonite because I can't ever seem to find room for a spinner, which is essential if you have those two.
  24. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    [​IMG]

    I've just never figured out how to use Gyarados well. Straight DD sets are outclassed by actual dragons, SubDD sets just seem far too fragile between the weakness to SR and having to use up more HP on Subs, RestTalk ruins momentum...I've never managed to use him even decently.
  25. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387
    That's pretty interesting; I've had the same problem for a while now. The DD set was much easier to use in BW1 before having at least one Choice Scarf on every team became the norm. One thing I suggest you try is Yache Berry - though you miss out on all the obvious benefits from Lum Berry, it means Dragonite can survive an un-STABed Ice Beam even after Stealth Rock, as well as Mamoswine's Ice Shard. This makes it more difficult your opponent to abruptly halt your sweep.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)