very minor nitpick but lampent is available in the friend safari, and its hidden ability is infiltrator. shadow tag chandelure simply will not exist, its been changed, so we dont need to worry about that
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pokebank (tier leaders pay attention)
- Thread starter blarajan
- Start date
The discussion over making Pokebank "Standard" is basically a choice between principle and practicality. Sticking to what is currently available in game, at least in an official capacity, is a principle that we've always tried to adhere by. If we decided to make Pokebank "Standard", we could face some serious backlash both for "playing fakemons" and for being inconsistent with our messaging. On the other hand, while I can't speak for how much it would help stat collection, officially accepting Pokebank would make some tournament decisions a lot easier. I don't feel comfortable officially recognizing a metagame that isn't playable in game, but there certainly would be some practical benefits.
lol yeah the red tape involved in smogon policy never ceases to amaze me
while I recognize the solitary issue of making Pokebank the official tier from the get-go, the pros far outweigh the cons. this isn't like in BW where we had no idea when stuff was going to be released--or if it was going to be released at all. this time were doing nothing more than cutting out the middleman and making everyone's life easier.
I'm with antar on this one, its a huge waste of time to focus on a meta that'll disappear in a month--and this goes for C&C too but whatever.
while I recognize the solitary issue of making Pokebank the official tier from the get-go, the pros far outweigh the cons. this isn't like in BW where we had no idea when stuff was going to be released--or if it was going to be released at all. this time were doing nothing more than cutting out the middleman and making everyone's life easier.
I'm with antar on this one, its a huge waste of time to focus on a meta that'll disappear in a month--and this goes for C&C too but whatever.
r u sure u meant "red tape"
cause hugen is merely asking what we should do, not adding steps / complexity to achieve a goal
it's not like the question isn't legitimate enough, i mean look at the concerns provided below
you think the pros farweigh the cons, jas doesnt even think there are any pros, i am completely wishy washy on this...
not sure if the way either side is handling this debate is worthy of a general talking point about "smogon policy" lol
cause hugen is merely asking what we should do, not adding steps / complexity to achieve a goal
it's not like the question isn't legitimate enough, i mean look at the concerns provided below
you think the pros farweigh the cons, jas doesnt even think there are any pros, i am completely wishy washy on this...
not sure if the way either side is handling this debate is worthy of a general talking point about "smogon policy" lol
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When reading this thread, I get the feeling that people think Pokebank is similar to Dream World, but more realistic, and it is that higher realism that makes it such that people believe we should go with it as the official metagame. However, I would argue it is significantly less realistic. With Dream World, we knew everything except "when?" Now its true that for a few things, the answer to "when?" turned out to be "never," but there was nothing else unknown about the situation. In this case, the "when" is the only thing we know. We don't know what restrictions or limitations will be placed on the Pokemon. For all we know, certain old event Pokemon might be seen as having illegal movesets and not allowed through, or some other potentially Pokemon defining thing. What's more we don't even know anything about the Pokemon themselves. Not only won't we know the sixth gen movesets, but we don't know if any of them have stat changes. Its happened already, and we have no reason to believe it won't happen to more Pokemon.
These unknowns are so significant that it is pretty much impossible to do any real tiering of these Pokemon until Pokebank is out anyways. With that being the case, I don't really understand how there is any benefit in going with Pokebank. Calling it "Official" won't let us do anything with it faster, and, as Hugendugen said, doing so does go against the established principle of sticking to possible things to do in game. I mean, people are saying the pros outweigh the cons, but I really don't see any pros, since the unknowns prevent anything in that metagame from meaning anything until it is the real metagame anyways.
These unknowns are so significant that it is pretty much impossible to do any real tiering of these Pokemon until Pokebank is out anyways. With that being the case, I don't really understand how there is any benefit in going with Pokebank. Calling it "Official" won't let us do anything with it faster, and, as Hugendugen said, doing so does go against the established principle of sticking to possible things to do in game. I mean, people are saying the pros outweigh the cons, but I really don't see any pros, since the unknowns prevent anything in that metagame from meaning anything until it is the real metagame anyways.
Aldaron i was making a general statement when i said red tape, not referring to hugen's post at all. mostly because i'm very adamant about us not wasting a shitload of time with this.
jas61292 - i get the point you're trying to make, but you have to admit the extreme unlikelihood that there's going to be illegal movesets. more base stat changes are very likely, but that's about the only unknown.
the comparison with dream world that you're making is completely off-base on the simple premise that dream word was a metagame that was never actually playable. pokebank is the metagame we'll have in a month--give or take a few base stat changes + new moves on old pokemon (and i'll bet 95% of these changes will be irrelevant to the ou metagame, completely unlike DW).
the fact that you don't see the upside to getting a one month head start on C&C, OU tiering, and decision making for official tournaments kinda blows my mind tbh. it's much easier to adjust analyses etc to a few stat changes than it is to rewrite almost every one to include every pokebank mon/moveset, any tiering we do before pokebank will be largely seen as inconclusive for obvious reasons, and there's the whole thing about which XY OU is going to be in SPL come january...
am i rly the only one that feels this strongly about this? lol
jas61292 - i get the point you're trying to make, but you have to admit the extreme unlikelihood that there's going to be illegal movesets. more base stat changes are very likely, but that's about the only unknown.
the comparison with dream world that you're making is completely off-base on the simple premise that dream word was a metagame that was never actually playable. pokebank is the metagame we'll have in a month--give or take a few base stat changes + new moves on old pokemon (and i'll bet 95% of these changes will be irrelevant to the ou metagame, completely unlike DW).
the fact that you don't see the upside to getting a one month head start on C&C, OU tiering, and decision making for official tournaments kinda blows my mind tbh. it's much easier to adjust analyses etc to a few stat changes than it is to rewrite almost every one to include every pokebank mon/moveset, any tiering we do before pokebank will be largely seen as inconclusive for obvious reasons, and there's the whole thing about which XY OU is going to be in SPL come january...
am i rly the only one that feels this strongly about this? lol
Just to clarify, I was mostly talking from the perspective of tiering, where I do not really see any upside. I think the unknowns themselves are reason enough not to do any real tiering/testing until Pokebank is actually out. With that said, I can certainly understand that having more time for C&C stuff especially could be helpful. That, of course though is partly counterbalanced by the fact that C&C based on assumptions and will change. Its basically the same problem that tiering has, but to a much lesser extent, in most cases. As for the tournaments, I wasn't really thinking about that, but I don't really see that influencing it too much, as that doesn't really have stuff taking place until after Pokebank is out anyways. Of course, I know nothing about how tournament decision making though, so I don't really count my opinion on that. I fully admit though I typically look at these kind of things from a PR and philosophy standpoint, more than a practicality one, and that may be a large part of the reason my view is what it is.
Event Berries (Custap, Rowap, Enigma, Jaboca, whatever else), Soul Dew, Latiosite, Latiasite,
MegaLatios, MegaLatias, Diancie, Hoopa, Volcanion. Not much.
Battle Maison and iirc Battle Institute. And even then, we don't know all of them (still waiting for Snow Warning Articuno and Drizzle Suicune...).
About PokéBank... I'm not a tiering leader but, personally, I'd rather we just disallowed items unavailable in XY and called it a day. That way, the transition will be easier once the app's finally released. I say "transition" because I also believe XY OU should be the official metagame, only for it to receive all of the Bank's additions when the tier comes, and the Bank metagame be renamed to "Unreleased" if there's enough demand. Actually, we shouldn't even have named them "XY" and "PokéBank", to begin with, but the deed's done already.
Problem is, no one cares lol. Everyone can see from Antar's stats that PokéBank metagames are much more popular than XY ones. Everybody knows the latter won't last long and many favorites (mostly legendaries) aren't available there so why even bother. This is why, practically speaking, we should just let the Council and C&C work with the assumption PokéBank more or less resemble the new, true XY metagame we'll have after Christmas.
Whatever stat change we have will certainly be a mere +10 increase somewhere, whatever new move will have as much a impact as any other special event from older gens, whatever typing retcon we get--oh wait no old-gen legendary is Fairy-type because Fairy sucks. While I don't believe absolutely nothing will change, I'm pretty sure there will not be anything groundbreaking.
[there was a really shitty paragraph here that's been editted out]
I don't really know what should be done with the names now, but more importantly, if C&C leaders and contributors say they would appreciate this six-week headstart, then by all means they should write their analyses with PokéBank OU in mind. I think they really would be the most affected by whatever changes will come in December, should we keep XY OU as the official tier until then.
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So we really need a decision ASAP.
Pre-Pokebank, are we moving forward with Pokebank-assumed or real-OU as our official tiers?
The only thing I'll say here is that we should be consistent across all tiers, meaning, Ubers / LC / OU should all follow the same thing, and not real for Ubers and LC and Pokebank for OU or something.
Pre-Pokebank, are we moving forward with Pokebank-assumed or real-OU as our official tiers?
The only thing I'll say here is that we should be consistent across all tiers, meaning, Ubers / LC / OU should all follow the same thing, and not real for Ubers and LC and Pokebank for OU or something.
Well you know my feelings: Pokebank-assumed. Have "real OU" as a separate metagame (call it "Pre-bank" or "Bankless"?). Maybe do Ubers too (I can check the usage numbers for the last few days if you'd like), but LC does not get nearly enough usage to justify having TWO Gen VI LC metagames active, IMO.
Edit: Numbers are beautiful. Yesterday saw:
Looking at this, I would conclude:
Edit: Numbers are beautiful. Yesterday saw:
- 87,315 OU "Beta" vs. 37,571 Pokebank OU vs. 11,761 Gen V OU battles
- 1,600 Ubers "Beta" vs. 3,441 Pokebank Ubers vs. 1,804 Gen V Ubers battles
- 1,664 Doubles "Beta" vs. 2,530 Pokebank Doubles vs. 550 Gen V Doubles battles
- 245 LC "Beta" vs. 338 Pokebank LC vs. 191 Gen V LC battles
Looking at this, I would conclude:
- People are playing "OU Beta" over Pokebank by a margin of more than 2:1. Whether that's because they're playtesting for Wi-Fi teams (doubtful), because they think it's our official meta (possible) or because it's the first one they see (almost certainly), we cannot truly know. However, this really highlights Aldaron's point that we should make a decision NOW.
- Ubers sees more Gen V battles than "Ubers Beta" battles. Unsurprising since there are so few legendaries available in Gen VI without Pokebank. That makes Pokebank a fairly unique meta, and that would be an argument for keeping it, but its low (relative) usage is a decent argument for nixing it.
- Doubles Beta sees more usage than Gen V doubles, but it's still far less than Pokebank Doubles. Considering how new the Smogon Doubles metagame is, I think we should nix the Bankless meta in favor of focusing on a single meta.
- LC usage is pitiful across the board, and the LC community really can't afford to have the playerbase split. Nix Bankless LC and be done with it.
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koko kind of already touched on this, but I wanted to bring it up again because I think it's one of the main factors to consider.
Is it really worth it to spend so much time and manpower on previews that will be outdated within a month and a half? If we ignore "Pokebank OU" and proceed with just current playable-in-cartridge OU, we probably won't have analyses completed for everything after Pokebank is released until mid-February. By that point, I'd like to think we'll already be getting a glimpse into what XY UU will look like. Sure, we might end up needing to make some edits to previews/analyses based on things we didn't know were going to exist, but let's be real here: out of all the edits to typing, Base Stats, and abilities, I can only think of three that actually made a huge difference—Togekiss, Scolipede, and Azumarill. We already have a good idea of what else is getting retyped based on the Maison. Base Stat changes have been nearly completely irrelevant up to this point. And of all the changed abilities, only Scolipede's actually really mattered. Who knows? Maybe we'll get Ghost/Fairy Mismagius with 10 more Special Attack and will have to make some huge changes to a few analyses because of it. But would you rather have to do that or revamp every preview/analysis for every Pokemon?
Personally, I think going with Pokebank would be far more efficient for us in the long-run. It doesn't make much sense to me to focus on a metagame that will be utterly irrelevant in a matter of a month and a half. No, we probably won't get it perfect, but it seems like such a waste to ignore what's to come. Hell, even plenty of people playing the cartridge are still breeding in preparation of what is to come. I know I personally didn't bother breeding any Drilbur when I have to wait for Pokebank for it to get Stealth Rock and Iron Head.
In the end, Hugen's right that it's an issue of practicality vs. principle, and I get why people would want to err on the side of following the cartridge exactly. But it seems like a waste of time to put so much energy into something that will be gone in no time.
edit: [18:45] <Oglemi> treecko js, C&C shouldn't be a deciding factor in tiering concerns
C&C aside, it seems silly to focus all of our efforts throughout the site on a metagame that's set to expire in less than a month and a half.
Is it really worth it to spend so much time and manpower on previews that will be outdated within a month and a half? If we ignore "Pokebank OU" and proceed with just current playable-in-cartridge OU, we probably won't have analyses completed for everything after Pokebank is released until mid-February. By that point, I'd like to think we'll already be getting a glimpse into what XY UU will look like. Sure, we might end up needing to make some edits to previews/analyses based on things we didn't know were going to exist, but let's be real here: out of all the edits to typing, Base Stats, and abilities, I can only think of three that actually made a huge difference—Togekiss, Scolipede, and Azumarill. We already have a good idea of what else is getting retyped based on the Maison. Base Stat changes have been nearly completely irrelevant up to this point. And of all the changed abilities, only Scolipede's actually really mattered. Who knows? Maybe we'll get Ghost/Fairy Mismagius with 10 more Special Attack and will have to make some huge changes to a few analyses because of it. But would you rather have to do that or revamp every preview/analysis for every Pokemon?
Personally, I think going with Pokebank would be far more efficient for us in the long-run. It doesn't make much sense to me to focus on a metagame that will be utterly irrelevant in a matter of a month and a half. No, we probably won't get it perfect, but it seems like such a waste to ignore what's to come. Hell, even plenty of people playing the cartridge are still breeding in preparation of what is to come. I know I personally didn't bother breeding any Drilbur when I have to wait for Pokebank for it to get Stealth Rock and Iron Head.
In the end, Hugen's right that it's an issue of practicality vs. principle, and I get why people would want to err on the side of following the cartridge exactly. But it seems like a waste of time to put so much energy into something that will be gone in no time.
edit: [18:45] <Oglemi> treecko js, C&C shouldn't be a deciding factor in tiering concerns
C&C aside, it seems silly to focus all of our efforts throughout the site on a metagame that's set to expire in less than a month and a half.
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I'm not quite a tier leader, but I can speak for Doubles as well as in general I guess.
Honestly, I don't understand why we decided to start with pre-Bank at all - it's not like DW OU; we know when that period is going to end so we might as well prepare for it. As it is now, the Pokebank metagames are what we're going to have (minus stuff never released) so we might as well go with it now. Pre-Bank is cool and all and it's given us time to identify new cool stuff, but overall it's been wasting our time in C&C.
With regard to XY items only: the lack of Gems is actually huge for Doubles. It's kind of a holdover from VGC, but basically every offensive Pokémon that wasn't a lategame sweeper (rarely then anyway) used a Gem.
Honestly, I don't understand why we decided to start with pre-Bank at all - it's not like DW OU; we know when that period is going to end so we might as well prepare for it. As it is now, the Pokebank metagames are what we're going to have (minus stuff never released) so we might as well go with it now. Pre-Bank is cool and all and it's given us time to identify new cool stuff, but overall it's been wasting our time in C&C.
With regard to XY items only: the lack of Gems is actually huge for Doubles. It's kind of a holdover from VGC, but basically every offensive Pokémon that wasn't a lategame sweeper (rarely then anyway) used a Gem.
I disagree with starting with Pokebank now, because there is a lot of information we still don't know for sure, such as egg moves (does Goodra get Recover from Milotic?), and stat changes.
The PokeBank ladder should not allow unobtainable items / Pokemon. But that's already been discussed and most people agree with that.
The one point I want to make is that there is potentially a lot of information about the Pokebank metagame we don't know yet. So making it official at this time means we're playing a metagame that could have a lot of inaccuracys with it. By having the pre-pokebank metagame official, we at least can test the information before we put it on the simulator.
The big thing is egg moves, there are breeding chains that cant be tested until Pokebank comes out. Some of them could have a large impact on the metagame. Stat changes could be big too, maybe not metagame defining. But if Porygon-Z got +10 speed that could be a big deal.
So because of these unknowns, I would rather that the real OU be the official tier until we know more about Pokebank.
The PokeBank ladder should not allow unobtainable items / Pokemon. But that's already been discussed and most people agree with that.
The one point I want to make is that there is potentially a lot of information about the Pokebank metagame we don't know yet. So making it official at this time means we're playing a metagame that could have a lot of inaccuracys with it. By having the pre-pokebank metagame official, we at least can test the information before we put it on the simulator.
The big thing is egg moves, there are breeding chains that cant be tested until Pokebank comes out. Some of them could have a large impact on the metagame. Stat changes could be big too, maybe not metagame defining. But if Porygon-Z got +10 speed that could be a big deal.
So because of these unknowns, I would rather that the real OU be the official tier until we know more about Pokebank.
While its true we don't know these ahead of time, in my opinion it's a better use of time to start now, then make changes as we find them. If Goodra gets Recover, then we change a few analyses and move on. We won't have to change every analysis, and the majority of changes will be quick. I can only think of a few cases where it really takes a long time and a lot of effort to incorporate changes. I think getting started on what we think will be there is a lot better use of our time than idling the C&C machine, or wasting effort on something we know is going to be very wrong in little more than a month.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
I can't claim to speak for Pocket, but I do have experience in the Doubles meta and as long as we're discussing practical concerns here and not just policy/ideology ones, I figure I might as well chime in with the opinion of one of the metas that's going to be affected by this.
Basically, Pokebank and non-Pokebank Doubles are entirely different metagames. if you were to ask someone in BW2 to list the five most important Pokemon in Doubles, it would actually not surprise me if they said "Thundurus, Latios, Landorus-T, Heatran, Cresselia." None of which are available in Bankless XY. in addition, we're missing Jellicent; Jelli and Cress were basically the two best Trick Room setters in BW; we have Trevenant now and some other nicher stuff (Chandelure, Gallade) is still here but the lack of those two makes Trick Room really a lot less powerful than it likely will be. We're also missing some very influential, though maybe less so legends like Kyurem-B, Zapdos, Terrakion, and Jirachi, which were all huge players in last gen's meta.
if you don't play doubles then the above paragraph probably didn't mean shit to you, but the takeaway is this: virtually nothing we're learning right now will be applicable come December 27. i really personally enjoy this metagame without all the centralizing threats but that doesn't matter; it's gone permanently in a month and those pokemon previews will be entirely moot. I can't even predict how the above Pokemon will affect the meta perfectly due to the loss of gems and some other smaller things (imagining BW dubs without gems ≈ imagining RSE OU without Leftovers) but for the egg chains etc that Raseri brings up to possibly be a bigger deal than the missing pokemon, every pokemon in the game will need to get Wide Guard, Fake Out, and Follow Me through egg chains. As such, I personally support the instant move to Pokebank both as the official ladder and C&C as best we can estimate it, which will be consistently improving as we go—it's silly to wait till we're done when we can't even dump data properly.
Basically, Pokebank and non-Pokebank Doubles are entirely different metagames. if you were to ask someone in BW2 to list the five most important Pokemon in Doubles, it would actually not surprise me if they said "Thundurus, Latios, Landorus-T, Heatran, Cresselia." None of which are available in Bankless XY. in addition, we're missing Jellicent; Jelli and Cress were basically the two best Trick Room setters in BW; we have Trevenant now and some other nicher stuff (Chandelure, Gallade) is still here but the lack of those two makes Trick Room really a lot less powerful than it likely will be. We're also missing some very influential, though maybe less so legends like Kyurem-B, Zapdos, Terrakion, and Jirachi, which were all huge players in last gen's meta.
if you don't play doubles then the above paragraph probably didn't mean shit to you, but the takeaway is this: virtually nothing we're learning right now will be applicable come December 27. i really personally enjoy this metagame without all the centralizing threats but that doesn't matter; it's gone permanently in a month and those pokemon previews will be entirely moot. I can't even predict how the above Pokemon will affect the meta perfectly due to the loss of gems and some other smaller things (imagining BW dubs without gems ≈ imagining RSE OU without Leftovers) but for the egg chains etc that Raseri brings up to possibly be a bigger deal than the missing pokemon, every pokemon in the game will need to get Wide Guard, Fake Out, and Follow Me through egg chains. As such, I personally support the instant move to Pokebank both as the official ladder and C&C as best we can estimate it, which will be consistently improving as we go—it's silly to wait till we're done when we can't even dump data properly.
haunter
Banned deucer.
I agree with Raseri for the most part, especially since Pokébank is behind the corner. The opportunity to easily match our offical tiers with what is effectively available in game is a sufficient reason to keep the status quo (as unpleasant as it might be) until Pokébank is officially released.
While we haven't reached a consensus yet on whether Pokebank should be official, we clearly agree that Soul Dew and the non-Normal gems should be removed. If you could implement that Zarel, it'd be appreciated.
As for the issue of whether Pokebank should be standard or not, my feelings haven't changed much since this. Personally I think that the principle outweighs the practical benefits, especially since it's so close and we've already publicized that non-Pokebank is official. However we should probably reach a conclusion on this as soon as possible. chaos, Aldaron, Haunter, McMeghan, Nachos, M Dragon, kokoloko, Molk, Raseri, blarajan and whoever is Doubles leader (Joim, Pocket???), since posting seems to have died down, perhaps a vote is in order.
Which should be "Standard", Prebank or Pokebank? (Preferably provide some reasoning)
As for the issue of whether Pokebank should be standard or not, my feelings haven't changed much since this. Personally I think that the principle outweighs the practical benefits, especially since it's so close and we've already publicized that non-Pokebank is official. However we should probably reach a conclusion on this as soon as possible. chaos, Aldaron, Haunter, McMeghan, Nachos, M Dragon, kokoloko, Molk, Raseri, blarajan and whoever is Doubles leader (Joim, Pocket???), since posting seems to have died down, perhaps a vote is in order.
Which should be "Standard", Prebank or Pokebank? (Preferably provide some reasoning)
I would far prefer we just avoid this issue and delay everything till post pokebank
What's the big deal honestly...5-6 more weeks.
"big whoop"
We've delayed analyses in the past before (2008 specifically that I remember), and OST and SPL get enough hype anyway that a 5-6 week delay won't be a big deal.
What else does this affect?
Tiering?
We can deal with that (read that as time isn't a concern in this specific situation).
The point I'm making here is that I don't think a vote on the issue is acceptable...mainly because I think the vote is voting on a lose-lose scenario. Both sides have far too many negative drawbacks; this shouldn't be a simple vote and go situation, especially if all it takes to avoid it is wait 5-6 weeks.
Trust me, the wieners will whine about SPL being delayed, but they'll get over it. C&C not having analyses for 5-6 weeks won't be a big deal (alternatively, it is easy to make non specific general analyses as placeholders). Tiering can deal with it due to the flexible / subjective nature of the process itself (and the fact that time delays are frequent regardless)
I know I asked for a "decision ASAP" but that was while I was thinking in the limited box of "we need one or the other." The third option is simply to not do anything, and thereby avoid setting extremely dangerous precedents regarding real vs. assumed Pokemon or simply wasting a ton of effort for 6 weeks.
What's the big deal honestly...5-6 more weeks.
"big whoop"
We've delayed analyses in the past before (2008 specifically that I remember), and OST and SPL get enough hype anyway that a 5-6 week delay won't be a big deal.
What else does this affect?
Tiering?
We can deal with that (read that as time isn't a concern in this specific situation).
The point I'm making here is that I don't think a vote on the issue is acceptable...mainly because I think the vote is voting on a lose-lose scenario. Both sides have far too many negative drawbacks; this shouldn't be a simple vote and go situation, especially if all it takes to avoid it is wait 5-6 weeks.
Trust me, the wieners will whine about SPL being delayed, but they'll get over it. C&C not having analyses for 5-6 weeks won't be a big deal (alternatively, it is easy to make non specific general analyses as placeholders). Tiering can deal with it due to the flexible / subjective nature of the process itself (and the fact that time delays are frequent regardless)
I know I asked for a "decision ASAP" but that was while I was thinking in the limited box of "we need one or the other." The third option is simply to not do anything, and thereby avoid setting extremely dangerous precedents regarding real vs. assumed Pokemon or simply wasting a ton of effort for 6 weeks.
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So Antar, I can guarantee that prebank OU be named "OU (beta)" and have postbank OU be named "OU", and have that be the cut-off. That should be easier for you to process.
P.S. PM me about changing our log format. We have tons of gigs of logs these days and we could save a lot of space if any of the data we're saving were superfluous.
I could even do some preprocessing for you, so your stats calculations don't all need to be batched.
As for your rikuesuto, Hugendugen, will do eventually.
P.S. PM me about changing our log format. We have tons of gigs of logs these days and we could save a lot of space if any of the data we're saving were superfluous.
I could even do some preprocessing for you, so your stats calculations don't all need to be batched.
As for your rikuesuto, Hugendugen, will do eventually.
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I sympathize with Aldaron's concerns, but the splitting effect from having 2 ladders affects non-OU ladders quite badly. It's also no surprise that most of us play / prefer the "Pokebank" metas, so I'd rather not pretend that prebank meta actually matters, since nobody is truly playing it / taking it seriously. I mean, I am assuming the OU council quick-banned Deoxys-N based on their play experiences from the OU Pokebank meta. If my assumption is correct, then the OU council is already basing off important tiering decisions based off of this unreleased metagame.
Our current circumstance is unprecedented, since we're stuck in this limbo state where we cannot do anything particularly productive. The current XY metagame will be utterly obsolete in less than 2 months, everybody is more interested in the Pokebank meta, yet we are forced to keep up with the facade that PreBank is actually the metagame that we care atm.
I talked with my fellow Dubs leaders + mods + council team (yes we have a council now), and the senior members (Joim, NixHex, Pocket) are wishy washy like Aldaron, whereas the rest of those who responded are demanding to make Pokebank meta the new meta immediately / axe the PreBank meta.
Our current circumstance is unprecedented, since we're stuck in this limbo state where we cannot do anything particularly productive. The current XY metagame will be utterly obsolete in less than 2 months, everybody is more interested in the Pokebank meta, yet we are forced to keep up with the facade that PreBank is actually the metagame that we care atm.
I talked with my fellow Dubs leaders + mods + council team (yes we have a council now), and the senior members (Joim, NixHex, Pocket) are wishy washy like Aldaron, whereas the rest of those who responded are demanding to make Pokebank meta the new meta immediately / axe the PreBank meta.
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