Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 Move Tutor Moves

[Sandstreamer]

Wait, you are not going to remove all the stupid bans of the BW era (i.e., all of them) for B2W2..? And there I was hoping for a functioning meta again...

Also, because a LOT of guys seem to be wanting to wait with retests "until the meta stabilizes". That is not how a metagame works. If anything, it works out the following way: You get a powerful mon that can counter some previously banned threats. You ban it because it stands out in the early B2W2 metagame. THEN you retest the previously banned threats and deem them too powerful for the already crippled meta. That's why the quality of options in OU keeps spiraling down.

 

[NoUserName]

The usefulness of a Pokemon in Ubers is irrelevant as an argument for to keep it in Ubers or not to raise it to Ubers.

Wynaut was useless in Ubers in 4th gen existing Wobbuffet in the same tier, as an instance.

Some of you are saying Keldeo Scarf would be a good check to Blaziken, but, what offers besides countering Blaziken Keldeo Scarf? Even so, it is an only, not reliable check.

In this current metagame I consider Keldeo Scarf would be a bit useless, counting the fact there are a lot of things that resist or are inmune to water due the fact Drizzle is common on the OU tier.
A thing that gives free turns easily to a lot of things, besides, being locked in its secondary STAB(Fighting) is not the best idea.

 

[zarator]

Silvershadow, what's the point to retest Garchomp when his "broken" set (Substitute/Swords Dance/Outrage/Earthquake) is still as terrifying as ever? (Someone could say even worse than when it is banned, since Rain was taken down quite a notch since then).

Moreover, I doubt that, even if Rough Skin Garchomp were allowed, we'd get Garchomp back in OU (on the account of Sand Veil being banned). As far as I know, we always opposed banning Ability + Pokemon combinations, for the sake of simplicity. This is why you don't see Sand Strength Excadrill or Blaze Blaziken in OU (and mind you, both of them would fit a lot better in OU than Rough Skin Garchomp would). Or Defiant Thundurus, if we ever wanted to get down to that.

 

[ss234]

The different forms for the trio look terrifying! I suspect Thunderus' new form is going to make a big impact on Uber's-145 attack is just incredible, and 101 speed is just trolly. That Landorus looks very powerful-and could make a good SR with it's decent resistances(its merits over Gliscor-a humoungus attack stat, second in the tier after Haxorus I believe, as well as a better special attack stat. I think that Tornadus didn't particularly gain anything at all-a better speed stat and lower attack doesn't seem too worth it to me, since it will only be outspeeding ScarfTar and Starmie which it couldn't before. I think that the Thunderus spread is the best-Landorus loses 10 speed points, and can't outspeed base 100's. 145 attack though-just wow. That thing is going to be a great sandstorm abuser despite the speed loss. The Rock Polish set looks like an amazing set up sweeper however...

Edit-Fair enough I suppose zarator. I wasn't around during the Garchomp period-so I'm sorry if I hadn't realised just how monstrous he is. I was saying that if he was going to be un-banned, then I wouldn't like to see Sand Veil.

 

[deluge]

Fact is, those three suggested would be a huge relief on building different styles of teams. We can check Volturn much easier with Thundurus' new ability; Garchomp also covers Volturn remarkably well; and even Excadrill helps balance between offense, defense and hazard support.

Excadrill, Garchomp, and Thundurus should def be reintroduced. Things will be completely shaken up with new Pokemon, new tutors and possibly new movesets and DW abilities. Quite frankly, what was done before is irrelevant. And it doesn't make sense to drop them down one-by-one in such a way that their interaction cannot be effectively observed. (IF possibly a separate testing ladde could be used so people don't come to rush judgements in a effeort to 'stabilise' the standard ladder)

On the T-form stats: if true, Tornadus-T's spread is slightly different from what was stated in the mags. He is incredibly balanced overall with blazing speed and his offences are higher. I was calling 135 for the others' offenses but they're Chandelure level. wow.

 

[NoUserName]

Thundurus with Defiant will be Uber anyways, since its sets which send it to Ubers was the Nasty Plot+Thunderbolt+HP Ice+Focus Blast, in which set Prankster was almost irrelevant, any Prankster was not able to Taunt it before NP without risk. It is not the case of Excadrill or Blaziken, which without Sand Rush or Speed Boost would not be Ubers.

 

[IcyMan28]

Therian forms looks sick with those stats. Despite 145 SpA, Thundurus-T may be containable since it is now outsped by alot more pokemon, but it is dangerous nonetheless. Tornadus looks great for rain with its 121 spees outrunning even Alakazam, and it can now hit ScarfTar hard too. Hurricane / Focus Blast / Roost / HP Ice @ LO will own.

As for retests, now is the time to do it, and throw in Manaphy. Rain will be much more common, hindering the sand sweepers, and I already addressed Thundurus. Manaphy has new checks in the form of Keldeo, Thundurus-T, and will have to face things that rise to check Keldeo, such as Latias. There is no need for the metagame to "stabilize" because it is going to be chaos with or without these drops.

 

[haunter]

Sorry to ask again, but are the stats of the new forms official? can someone provide a source?

 

[Lucario_Guy]

Sorry to ask again, but are the stats of the new forms official? can someone provide a source?

As PillsburyDoughBoy said (he edited his post), MeroMero (the one who posted the stats) has an actual copy of the game, so yes. :)

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm saying I'd veiw Blaziken as more likly for a re-test than Excadrill.

B/W 2 has brought nothing to battle Excadrill that wasn't already a check [Gliscor]. Scarf Keldeo can check Blaziken at least, as it outspeeds +1 Blaziken.

I never said 'Blaziken should be re-tested'. Blaziken is broken as hell. But there's more reason to re-test Blaziken than Excadrill. Re-testing Blaziken is stupid. Just like re-testing Excadrill.

I'd sooner retest Excadrill than Blaziken.

 

[viol and bass]

As PillsburyDoughBoy said (he edited his post), MeroMero (the one who posted the stats) has an actual copy of the game, so yes. :)

And they've been confirmed (by whom, I don't know) on Serebii.

 

[Lucario_Guy]

And they've been confirmed (by whom, I don't know) on Serebii.

Smuglord.

 

[Raikaria]

And they've been confirmed (by whom, I don't know) on Serebii.

Smuglord.

Resolution Forme has the same stats as basic form Keldeo. Yay for new forme for the sake of a new forme?

I don't like the new forms of the Trio. Landorus is down to 91 speed, although his 145 attack makes a scarf set viable, I feel the drop in speed ruins something key about Landy, his unpredictabilty.

Although if you let him get in a Rock Polish, you basically have Excadrill on your hands, with a Rock type over a Steel type.

Thunderus is also slowed down to 101, which, while still trolly, isn't as good. I'd rather Base 125 Sp.Atk and 115 Speed than 101 Speed and 145 Sp.Atk when it comes to Nasty Plot.

Tornadus is faster, but it's offensive stats have taken a dive. 79/80/90 defenses... are nothing special. I think Evolite Golbat has better defensive stats... and typing.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I don't honestly see why any test is even needed, we literally have 6 pokemon coming into OU, two of which are probably going to banned even if tested the fuckers with Doexys-A and drizzle+swift swim. I don't even see what the hell is wrong with the metagame, try as you might your bitching to get Garchomp and Excadrill back doesn't come close to the bitching before to get them banned. Throwing a ton of threats back into the OU metagame doesn't seem like it would solve any new threats. I find it interesting how no one has nominated Deoxy-S for a retest, perhaps because the memories of the thing are freshest in our heads.

Heck I would love an Excadrill and Thundurus retest, maybe even a Garchomp retest, the metagame would be centralized as fuck making it easier for me to stall.
　

 

[KurashiDragon]

Smuglord.

Resolution Forme has the same stats as basic form Keldeo. Yay for new forme for the sake of a new forme?

I don't like the new forms of the Trio. Landorus is down to 91 speed, although his 145 attack makes a scarf set viable, I feel the drop in speed ruins something key about Landy, his unpredictabilty.

Although if you let him get in a Rock Polish, you basically have Excadrill on your hands, with a Rock type over a Steel type.

Thunderus is also slowed down to 101, which, while still trolly, isn't as good. I'd rather Base 125 Sp.Atk and 115 Speed than 101 Speed and 145 Sp.Atk when it comes to Nasty Plot.

Tornadus is faster, but it's offensive stats have taken a dive. 79/80/90 defenses... are nothing special. I think Evolite Golbat has better defensive stats... and typing.

I agree with you on Landorus and thunderous. Tornadus however, I think has recieved a boom. While it's SpA and Atk have been reduced it's speed has been increased to trolling levels and it's attack stats are still workable.

 

[Grape Drink 2.0]

Resolution Forme has the same stats as basic form Keldeo. Yay for new forme for the sake of a new forme?

Possibly an ability change?

 

[IcyMan28]

Do keep in mind that if Thundurus remains banned, we still have Thundurus-T to take its place if it's that much worse than the original form. 101 speed is still great.

Keldeo has a Resolution Form. Notice the lack of the "e" Nintendo uses to distinguish between pokemon that change stats between forms.

Tornadus-T is better now. Bulkier with access to Regenerator and likely Roost, and its faster on top of that. Latias doesn't complain about her 110 SpA, so it's unlikely that Tornadus-T will have too much to worry about considering how great Hurricane is.

 

[UltiMario]

The thing is like most of Excadrill's Checks and counters are getting noticeably better.

Think of it like Gen IV Ubers to Gen V OUs. Mence, Latis, Deo, Mew... Shit that can deal with them came up, the metagame got stronger, so they were no longer as Scary. They fell back to OU (or lower) after the power creep. BW2's Tutors give enough extra stuff to what already existed that that power creep is noticeable in the middle of a generation, which means scary amounts of improvement.

The metagame surrounding Garchomp, Thundurus, and Excadrill especially have gotten stronger and more volatile for them. They may not be as comparatively as strong anymore, and fall back in place, like many Ubers of the past have.

It's the Smogon Philosophy to ban as little as possible. Even if there's nothing wrong with the metagame now, it doesn't matter. If it's still fair game if they come back down, they should get unbanned. That's the way things get done around here.

 

[alexwolf]

Therian forms looks sick with those stats. Despite 145 SpA, Thundurus-T may be containable since it is now outsped by alot more pokemon, but it is dangerous nonetheless. Tornadus looks great for rain with its 121 spees outrunning even Alakazam, and it can now hit ScarfTar hard too. Hurricane / Focus Blast / Roost / HP Ice @ LO will own.

As for retests, now is the time to do it, and throw in Manaphy. Rain will be much more common, hindering the sand sweepers, and I already addressed Thundurus. Manaphy has new checks in the form of Keldeo, Thundurus-T, and will have to face things that rise to check Keldeo, such as Latias. There is no need for the metagame to "stabilize" because it is going to be chaos with or without these drops.

Why Roost? Regenerator does all the job for you, so put U-turn instead and you are set!

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

As a defensive pokemon the new Tornadus looks rather disapointing, 79 / 80 / 90 is rather disapointing. If its movepool is anything like Tornadus, all it will have is taunt, and monoflying is not that great of a defensive type with only an immunity to ground and resistance to fighting to aid it, and it has a stealth rock weakness.

The thing is like most of Excadrill's Checks and counters are getting noticeably better.

Think of it like Gen IV Ubers to Gen V OUs. Mence, Latis, Deo, Mew... Shit that can deal with them came up, the metagame got stronger, so they were no longer as Scary. They fell back to OU (or lower) after the power creep. BW2's Tutors give enough extra stuff to what already existed that that power creep is noticeable in the middle of a generation, which means scary amounts of improvement.

The metagame surrounding Garchomp, Thundurus, and Excadrill especially have gotten stronger and more volatile for them. They may not be as comparatively as strong anymore, and fall back in place, like many Ubers of the past have.

It's the Smogon Philosophy to ban as little as possible. Even if there's nothing wrong with the metagame now, it doesn't matter. If it's still fair game if they come back down, they should get unbanned. That's the way things get done around here.

Ok you've gotten me ultimario <3.

 

[KurashiDragon]

As a defensive pokemon the new Tornadus looks rather disapointing, 79 / 80 / 90 is rather disapointing. If its movepool is anything like Tornadus, all it will have is taunt, and monoflying is not that great of a defensive type with only an immunity to ground and resistance to fighting to aid it, and it has a stealth rock weakness.

I have a feeling that with 100/110 it probably wasn't meant to be a defensive pokemon. Also with 121 Spd that's just some secondary proof. Most likely, this will be a slightly less frail glass cannon.

 

[Double01]

The new Tornadus form has gotten a little speed boost which is nice allowing it troll starmie, alakazam, and dugtrio. Tornadus will be such a force in rain with its new speed and bulk.

 

[IcyMan28]

Why Roost? Regenerator does all the job for you, so put U-turn instead and you are set!

You could do that, but it's nice to have a way to heal without needing to switch out. Think of it as Recover vs. Natural Cure + Rest.

As a defensive pokemon the new Tornadus looks rather disapointing, 79 / 80 / 90 is rather disapointing. If its movepool is anything like Tornadus, all it will have is taunt, and monoflying is not that great of a defensive type with only an immunity to ground and resistance to fighting to aid it, and it has a stealth rock weakness.

It isn't meant to be defensive, it will be a strong attacker with some bulk. Don't underestimate Ground immunity and Flying resist, they're good. Especially in this fighting-filled metagame. Tornadus doesn't need more than Hurricane / Focus Blast because they have nearly perfect neutral coverage, with HP Ice hitting Thundurus and Zapdos.

Bulk Up / Acrobatics / Brick Break / Roost also seems effective.

 

[NoUserName]

It seems the Outrage tutor is for to only overpower Salamence with Moxie+DD+Outrage.

Most of the things that can learn Outrage can learn it by themselves, or by 4th gen and they had crappy DW ability(Flygon has any change, Kingdra prefers Swift Swim, maybe could be used Damp in the same team with Poli instead of Sniper.., Dialga/Palkia/Giratina(in double Outrage is horrid though), since the target is chosen at random, who is going to use Outrage Altaria Cloud Nine?)

However, this will facilitate the tasks to RNG Pokes to RNG people in BW without needing 4th gen games lol

 

[alexwolf]

As a defensive pokemon the new Tornadus looks rather disapointing, 79 / 80 / 90 is rather disapointing. If its movepool is anything like Tornadus, all it will have is taunt, and monoflying is not that great of a defensive type with only an immunity to ground and resistance to fighting to aid it, and it has a stealth rock weakness.

It is not defensive though, that's the point. It just got increased Speed and a bit better defences at the cost of 15 Atk and SpA. Are we forgetting that 110 Spa attack is still really great? Many viable special attackers with 110 or lower SpA see a lot of use such as Jolteon, Celebi, Latias, Starmie etc... As said before a special set of LO has gotten better than ever. If you liked Mienshao, Torandus is going to be even better, since Hurricane is way harder to wall than HJK, despite the lower power. Also TF Tornadus outspeeds almost everything, so there you have it. Finally with his new defenses Tornadus can now take a hit now and heal it back later. For example LO HP Ice from Virizion never ohkoes 0/0 TF Tornadus after SR, while normal Tornadus has a 56,25% chance to get ohkoed after SR.

And with the added speed and defences Tornadus can run a possibly very deadly BU set. Imagine a set of BU, Taunt / Brick Break, Roost, and Acrobatcis with Flight Gem. I personally would go for enough speed to outrun Starmie and then throw the rest to HP and SpD with Taunt. This way the only things you have to be afraid of are special attackers with Electric and Ice attacks and Scarf Terrakion. Even with mono-flying coverage you don't care for some resists, such as Tyranitar, as at +2 Defense and with max HP Tyranitar cannot take you down unless he is Band iirc.