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Pokemon of the Week #11: Grimer (See post #150)

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Hawkstar, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    Hawkstar make up your damn mind >:(

    as for the sets mentioned: Rest talk is too risky to run without having a reliable way to remove ghosts (ie skunky and friends). with ghosts gone, though i think you'll find it almost as effective as Resttalk Heracross was. Possible idea is to drop Facade (which provides litterally no coverage. oooh i can hit poisons and psychics harder) for either Stone Edge / Rockslide or Bulk up - for a more "crocrune" set ( I really like those resttalkers, if you havent noticed)

    I go back to original point of Subpunch going to be ruining everyones day. It's just hella powerful. After iron fist and stab bonuses, it reaches a whopping 270 base power. Lemme ust list some other stuff I know of that reaches that kind of power. Adaptability-boosted crabhammer in the rain... uhhh..... I... I think thats it. and its backed by a 72 power priority attack; put in perspective, thats only 18 less than Scizor's bullet punch and 3 less than an unboosted drain punch. Unfortunetly none of his coverage moves are boosted by it, but if you're willing for a Triple Punch set, drain punch reaches a whopping 135, stronger than unstabbed blizzard/fireblast/thunder; and on par with STAB surfs. Sure the sets hell of weak to ghosts, litterally completely walled by it, but with their being only 1 (arguably 2) good ghosts in the teir, by the name of Misdreavus (and drifloon I guess). finding a way to eliminate it wont be hard. maybe a dedicated skunky or pawniard to the job. You dont even need coverage on fliers. I think the ony flying types that dont take neutral damage to timburr's stabs are wingull and Ducklett. None of the fliers in the teir (bar vullaby) are very defensive and its not outspoken to say Focus punch will decimate them. Great teamates for the set include people who can kill missy - Skunky and pawniard come to mind. a special mention goes out to scraggy who can set up on missy and also (kind of) tank the status effects thanks to shed skin. the two i think will make a powerful sweeping combo.

    The last thing mentioned was a sort of "rain timburr" set. Its an interesting concept. Iunno what to really say about it, but I look foward to the results. Like i said before, totally playing Sub Punch
  2. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    Delver, Timburr does get coverage boosted by iron fist. They're just not listed on smogon as it gained them through so it could run Sub/Focus Punch/Mach Punch/Ice Punch. Could be useful for random things like Foongus. Although I would still probably be inclined to use Sub/F-Punch/Mach Punch/Payback. I suppose Drain Punch could still find a spot for recovery but I'm not sure I like the sound of triple fighting.

    Also, JimmyVi, we are now onto week 4 and currently the PotW is Timburr. Riolu was a few weeks back.
  3. TheOnyx

    TheOnyx

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    bunch of random Life Orb Hammer Arm calcs:

    196 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 76 HP / 132 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 17-21 (68 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    196 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-17 (61.9 - 80.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    196 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 36 HP / 20 Def Eviolite Murkrow: 19-23 (82.6 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

    196 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snover: 49-62 (222.72 - 281.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    This is the best one:
    196 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 19-23 (86.36 - 104.54%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

    Alot of those plus Mach Punch will just be OHKO's
  4. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Hey, I beat the last challenge! I got top 3 no problem. Watch- I'll do this one too.
  5. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    here's some more LO timburr calcs:
    Croagunk (LC Bulky Offensive) Hammer Arm 41.66 - 50% Mach Punch 20.83 - 25%
    Hippopotas (LC Defensive) Hammer Arm 46.15 - 61.53% Mach Punch 19.23 - 30.76%
  6. TheOnyx

    TheOnyx

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    Dang that's really good damage on Hippo for it being to bulky bitch that it is.
    Just found another great calc: 196+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 220 HP / 228+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.48% chance to 2HKO

    Even Bronzor is 2HKO'd


    Even Psychics take a fuck ton:
    Show Hide
    196+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Drowzee: 14-16 (58.33 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    196+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Drowzee: 14-16 (58.33 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    196+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Gothita: 12-16 (63.15 - 84.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    But some tank it
    196+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Timburr Hammer Arm vs. 228 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Munna: 8-10 (29.62 - 37.03%) -- 66.89% chance to 3HKO
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    You never posted a proof. A log of you hitting 1927 isn't really proof, considering that at the time 3rd was ~1960.

    Regarding Timburr: I really think that Timburr is one of the strongest Fighting-types in the metagame right now. Few things can legitimately counter it, as Guts and Payback means that it can defeat most Ghost-types. However, while Drain Punch is fairly good sustain, it's not as reliable as something like Mienfoo's Regenerator or Recover. For a Pokemon that pretty much puts damage on its counters until it can sweep lategame, this lack of "reliable" recovery hurts it slightly. Even with this deficiency, Timburr is really hard to deal with after a Bulk Up. Life Orb seems interesting, but it is really team-dependent as it has a hard time switching in. Once it gets in safely though, it is a terror as it just hits so damn hard.
  8. TheOnyx

    TheOnyx

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    yeah Bulk Up is the best set imo, but the sheer power of Life Orb Iron Fist Hammer Arm is hard to ignore :P
  9. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    Hammer Arm does have sheer power, but i find that Timburr's niche in this meta is still to ability to Bulk Up and tank its way through teams while being the only good Fighting-type that doesn't care about burns from Ghost-types. Mienfoo seems better for an LO role.

    As for Bulk Up, what are you guys thinking is the best coverage move? Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Mach Punch are givens, and the remainder is basically Payback, Stone Edge, or Ice Punch. Personally, I don't think Stone Edge is very good because it's... Stone Edge. I like to run Payback, personally, so i can hit Missy harder, but I supposed Ice Punch is better to hit Krow on the switch.

    Although...
    196 Atk Timburr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Murkrow: 15-18 (68.18 - 81.81%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    you can just drain punch + mach punch
    So I'd really only use Ice Punch for Vullaby.
  10. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    I... am just not impressed with LO hammer arm. its still stalled out by common walls like Hippodon bar a crit. the only two that moderately impressed me were Murkrow and mienfoo; who are fairly common switchins to a timburr. I would like to see eviolite dp and eviolite hammer arm calcs for both of those if anyone could do them; I'm eating turkey with the fam.
  11. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I'm honestly kind of underwhelmed by Timburr. My experiences with the Bulk Up set make it seem like Timburr just isn't bulky enough to merit its insane usage. Its special bulk lets it set up on many sweepers, sure, but the problem is it doesn't actually really resist any special attacks. It ends up taking heavy damage from basically every neutral special attack in the tier, which kind of is ruining Timburr for me. I want to know how everyone is feeling about its bulk. Likewise, maybe I'm playing Timburr wrong?

    Do we think there's a way to improve Timburr's longevity?
  12. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    SubPunch Guts Timburr has been rediculously good so far I will post the set at the end of the post btw.It is very easy to use as Focus Punch DENTS even resists HARD.with Sub not only to support the strongest focus punch in LC but to avoid cheap shit like featherdance krow and attack droping moves in general,Also with a extremely slow payback to grant you solid covrage only resisted by crogunk,and priority isnt that bad to timburr as sub and mach punch help fight it off ,the set is best used with spikes and trick room support as In TR It outspeeds a lot of things and hazards help net KOs.

    SubPunchTimburr @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    Brave Nature
    0 Speed IVs
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Payback/Stone Edge
    - Mach Punch/ Drain Punch
  13. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Anyways, the ladder was reset.

    [​IMG]

    Continuing with the trend of "lol too lazy to teambuild", I used Hawkstar's team. It's a pretty good team, although it does have an irritating weakness to Timburr in a week where everyone is using Timburr. Timburr itself ended up functioning pretty much how I thought it would, as it ripped apart a lot of teams in the midgame, as doing things such as switching in on a Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp gave it the power necessary to OHKO things like Misdreavus with Payback. However, although Timburr seems extremely bulky at times (taking ~35% from Misdreavus's Shadow Ball), it still doesn't have enough bulk to tank things that I really want it to tank, such as LO Mienfoo's HJK or Snover's Blizzard. It's a lot like Croagunk in this regard- pretty bulky and decent damage output, but not enough of either to be truly great. I do think that Timburr is probably an easier Pokemon to use on a balance team, however, as its higher Attack stat means it gets slightly more reliable recovery from Drain Punch, whereas Croagunk can be worn down fairly quickly.

    Personally I feel that LO, Flame Orb, and Toxic Orb sets are fairly useless, as at that point I would actually just use LO Mienfoo instead since although Mach Punch is nice, the sheer power of Hi Jump Kick is too good to pass up. Mienfoo also has U-turn and Regenerator, which helps it out a lot. With no recovery if you run Hammer Arm, LO sets are pretty much dead weight if your opponent actually attacks instead of making a bad switch. Standard Bulk Up does enough damage anyways.
  14. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    I've been using Timburr A LOT,and this is coming from a guy who has Timburr on half of his LC teams.And I found a awesome bulky set.Sub.BU.Yep taking Timburr and taking all of its good factors: Bulk Up,High Attack,Good bulk,Low speed Payback,Bulky a f@ ck subs (Non NP Missy dosent break the sub with sball),Drain Punch,And past but not least the easiness of seting up with Timburr.Freaking Black Bird ?SubBU Timburr Will fix that.Missy causing your team problem?SubBU TIMBURR GET IN DAT.Normal and or Dark types causing your team troubles?SubBU Timburr.It is nigh impossible not to set up and once you do,You are a bulky strong force of fighting nature that cant be stoped.

    SubBU Timburr
    Timburr @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    Carefull Nature
    - Substitute
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Payback
  15. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    Yeah, I've been testing SubPunch and I find it rather underwhelming. Maybe, it's just my playstyle because I'm not a massive fan of SubPunchers in general. I posted this in the viability thread
    Basically I'm never sure about which moves I should run, and there's always something it misses out on.

    As for a Toxic Orb set, it really struggles switching in on a lot of threats. It has a lot of power but it's speed and bulk are too small. Best stick to eviolite.
  16. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    i should get another alt up there to push iss's alt off the top three :P
    [​IMG]
    i'm legend on the ryze.

    Anyway, Timburr's done a lot of work for me. It tends to be the mon that wins me the game against worse players who hax me; I can't tell you how many times it's pulled through after Scarf Machop freezes two of my mons with Ice Punch. I agree with iss in that it does better with balanced teams; I'm running more of a bulky spikestacking offense (that I built for with prem in around five minutes) with almost everything running Eviolite, and Timburr does work there to absorb status while not being the only Pokemon that I can use to pivot. Contributing to the abundance of priority I have on my team also helps.

    So yeah, Bulk Up is still its best set imo. Payback is indispensable to take out Misdreavus in a pinch, so it's still the best coverage move for Timburr. I'm considering trying out SubPunch Timburr solely to try and smash things on the switch with Focus Punch.

    Timburr actually tends to pair fairly well with SubRoost Murkrow; I can make use of both of their priority moves to wear down and pick off opponents. Murkrow helps to deal with Abra, Timburr's worst nightmare, while Timburr destroys Magnemite and Porygon, Murkrow's counters. Using both of them together gives me a strong offensive core in which each of them has the potential to sweep on its own.

    edit: cool (open)
    [​IMG]
  17. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    I did it too! (open)
    [​IMG]


    For this week, I used Timburr's Bulk Up set. Unfortunately, it seems like that set is the only one that works for Timburr. While not much of a surprise, I was hoping for the SubPunch and LO sets to turn out better! But yeah, Bulk Up Timburr is too good. It is way bulkier than people think, and as much as I hear people saying Abra is Timburr's worst nightmare, Timburr actually beats Abra 1v1 since Psychic doesn't OHKO when Timburr is at full health, and Timburr can use Payback + Mach Punch to KO it. While it's best you avoid this situation since Timburr will be revenged next turn, it works in a pinch and is a testament to how bulky Timburr actually is.
  18. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    We had a lot more people top the ladder this time around! Timburr is definitely a monster so I hope to see his usage rise a little bit more.

    This week is perhaps the only exception to the "Misdreavus is the only usable Ghost-type" rule that I keep getting told about. Featuring a cool Water-type immunity, high defenses, reliable recovery, and the fearsome Water Spout, Frillish is this week's Pokemon of the Week!


    [​IMG]
    Frillish
    Water- / Ghost-type
    55 HP / 40 Atk / 50 Def / 65 SpA / 85 SDef / 40 Spe
    Abilities: Water Absorb / Cursed Body / Damp​

    Frillish is often compared to Misdreavus, and at first glance, Misdreavus's all-around higher stats seem to make it superior in every way. However, Frillish differentiates itself through its arguably better movepool, reliable recovery that Misdreavus would kill for, and access to most of the same moves while adding a few gems thanks to its Water typing. Frillish can run a mean defensive set in combination with Lileep, since Frillish resists Bug, Ice, and Fighting while Lileep can take on Electric-, Grass-, and special Ghost- and Dark-type moves. Offensively, Frillish wields Water Spout, a move famous for its huge power at high HP. While the lack of Drizzle and abundance of Sucker Punchers puts a damper on Frillish's offensive sets, they are largely unexplored, so let's see what we can find out this week!
  19. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Frillish is baws,I used it a while back with LO and It did work as 85 SpDef is still solid and a 65 base spA with LO is also solid the set was :

    [pimg]622[/pimg]
    Frillish @ Life Orb
    232 HP/190SpA/82 SDef.
    Modest Nature
    Trait:Water Absorb
    - Substitute
    - Recover
    - Surf
    - Shadow Ball/Ice Beam


    This set trys to be diffrent than missy as possible by using Recover and Water Absorb and even more importantly Water type STAB.Life Orb Provides you with as much power as possible without resorting to a choice Item.Recover is amazing on this set as the Health lost from LO and subs are negated,This set is very amazing when used properly and proves that a non missy offensive ghost can be viable in this meta,I will add more later.
  20. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    defensive frillish is probably the best spinblocker in the tier. Staryu's Thunderbolt can be outstalled and disabled by Cursed Body, while it can take Drilbur's eq and retaliate with Scald. It's fucking damn bulky, it can take paybacks all day. Lileep incoming? Toxic that bitch and get out of there. Chinchou incoming? Toxic that bitch (or Shadow Ball for ~30% damage) and get out of there.

    this thing beats sand teams lik it's nothing

    shadow ball/scald/toxic/recover with cursed body and eviolite is the way to go if you want to go defensive, imo. You resist water anyway, so Water Absorb doesn't really help a whole lot.

    frillish is a pro mofo

    I'll edit this posts with logs of frillish being a pro mofo
  21. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    Tbh I don't think there's any room for frillish on most teams unless you run dual ghost. It's the best spinblocker for sure, but missy does the job adequately enough (even if you have to sack it and revenge kill). If you're looking to wall fighting types, many carry suckerpunch/payback or is just going to switch. Further, tentacool walls fighting way better and can spin and isn't weak to most coverage moves of fighting pokemon.

    That said, Frillish is a great pokemon in a vaccum. It seems less viable as it's most utilized on a team that runs hazards, but hazards aren't as effective as in other tiers (because of damage floors and really good spinners). Further, all of the 4 main spinners (staryu, tentacool, drillbur, sandshrew) and natu all share weaknesses with frillish.
  22. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    sucker punch often doesn't do much, and you can just toxic/recover while they're doing it. Payback is dealt with by cursed body, as you can just recover until it's disabled.

    Running a spinblocker doesn't mean you have to run a spinner...

    seriously guys try it out before you say any bad things about it. It'll fucking blow your expectations away.
  23. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    i'm with chieliee, Lil' Pringles is a really underrated mon. Picture the bulk of lileep (a small exaggeration) with the ability to spin block and 3 immunities to incredibly common attacking types. I will say that its choice scarf set is Highly underwhelming, and water spout, though awesome on paper, really just doesnt have enough oomph to power through eviolite mons. Frillish sports a decent special attack, but its not large enough to break the neutral-to-water types with eviolite in the teir - specifically things like Misdreavus and Mienfoo. Plus making Frillish have to worry about hazards is just adding unnessesary complication and weaknesses to an otherwise strong poke. Seriously. It has amazing walling potential, and works amazing with / against sand teams. It also has some really nice synergy with lileep, giving double rush an easy way to have 2 increadibly powerful sweepers with the defensive backbone to support it in such a Balanced meta game and still have a slot left over for your glue mon. Chielee already mentioned how it rocks sand so just read his post for that. Definetly my favorite non-misdreavus ghost type in the teir.
  24. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    I've recently paired it with Ferroseed, a bit like Ferrocent in OU. Frillish makes for a great spinblocker for Ferro's spikes and patches up Ferroseed's fighting and fire weaknesses. Ferroseed can deal with stuff like Chinchou which Frillish hates. Obviously Scraggy and Magnemite decimate this core, so packing something like Timburr would be ideal.
  25. thebrownie

    thebrownie

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    Maybe it's just my team construction that makes me feel like frillish isn't amazing since it makes having a spinner a bit of a pain. But if someone runs frillish and a hazard setter without a spinner, and since I run ferroseed/tentacool. I would just set up with him, send tentacool out knowing frillish is going to switch in to anticipate a block and set up 2 layers of toxic spikes, force a frillish switch and get it toxic poisoned.

    Not running a spinner imo is bad team construction, since if you're going to use hazards, you should know full well that you'd be hard countered by more hazards.

    That said, I'm considering running giga drain on tentacool, if people are going to start using it more.

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