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Pokemon of the Week #11: Grimer (See post #150)

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Hawkstar, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Well, bulky Archen is one of the more reliable answers to Murkrow, because Archen is the only Flying-resist in LC with reliable recovery, has a strong STAB Rock Slide/Stone Edge, and doesn't care too much about Sucker Punch or Heat Wave. It can also set up Stealth Rock during the free turns it will get against Krow, or just fire off attacks at the opposition with its ridiculous Attack stat.

    One of the better partners I've found for Eviolite Archen is Foongus, who really appreciates Archen as an answer to Murkrow. In return, Foongus can switch in on a lot of the Pokemon that would threaten Archen, and provide status support.
  2. Delver

    Delver I got the runs like Jagger

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    I havent used it extensively myself. I tried running the defensive set with Murkrow for some double bird fun, and it worked ok. I think the big issue i had with it is I didnt know how to run it properly. i had since deleted that team in an attempt to clean my team builder a bit so i dont remember the exact set, but iirc, it's Pluck, Rockslide, Stealth Rock, Roost. Personally I really wanna try a Flying Gem with Roost. 165 BP attack with no draw backs comming off a 20 attack stat and reliable recovery? yes plz. Thoughts on a Scarf set? I think it has potential but not being able to run acro an an offensive set is kinda sad :'(

    My question involving archen is if it goes into defeatist range and you roost back out of it, are your stats still halved? In console i *always* went tirtouga, and have never actually faught an archeops (that i didnt OHKO) so I'm not totally sure how the finer points of Defeatist works.
  3. JacobNinja

    JacobNinja

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    No, iirc it checks when it moves, its like a burn.
  4. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    I really feel as if the most viable balance cores are currently Snover/Staryu/Murkrow and Snover/Archen/Drilbur. While the former has tons of synergy and good revenge killing potential, the latter does a great job of specifically countering Pokemon. Mienfoo and Murkrow run into problems against Archen, while Misdreavus surprisingly cannot fight Drilbur due to Mold Breaker. The core does have trouble against Water- and Ice-types, so Chinchou is actually fairly nice with the core. Eviolite Snover is usually the better choice over the standard Choice Scarf in this case due to Scarf Snover being terrible at repeatedly switching into Water-type moves. Archen is pretty much a worse Gligar; it sets up Stealth Rock and walls stuff, much like defensive Gligar used to do, but Defeatist and its worse defensive stats means that it needs quite a bit more support than Gligar did.

    Offensive Acrobatics Archen is alright, I just don't like it that much due to it not being fast enough to really take advantage of its power. Acrobatics Drifloon pretty much outclasses it in terms of sweeping power, and without Eviolite it actually gets knocked into Defeatist range by two Brave Birds from non-LO Murkrow. However, it does break walls really well, as its Flying Gem Acrobatics has ridiculous amounts of power (one of the few non-Fighting type moves that can deal >50% to standard Porygon).
  5. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Due to the lowered activity in the thread, I'm making this bi-weekly. I also think that doing a new Pokemon every week was kinda fast anyway.

    This week's PotW sucks is one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the metagame, with an excellent support movepool to match. With an Eviolite, a good ability in Overcoat, and a high-powered STAB move to smack Fighting-types around with, Vullaby can pose a threat to both offensive teams that can't break through it and defensive teams that hate Knock Off and Toxic. Vullaby catches me in a good mood and makes it as Pokemon of the Week!

    [​IMG]
    Vullaby
    Dark- / Flying-type
    70 HP / 55 Atk / 75 Def / 45 SpA / 65 SDef / 60 Spe
    Abilities: Big Pecks / Overcoat / Weak Armor​

    Vullaby's got some pretty high defenses, maxing out at 24/27/24 with the on-site defensive set. That is exactly as physically bulky as Hippopotas is, combined with the rough equivalent of Porygon's special bulk. It's support movepool, as I mentioned earlier, is also quite deep, with gems such as Knock Off, Roost, Toxic, Whirlwind, and Taunt. It has decent attacking stats, and also has Nasty Plot, which is rare in the LC metagame but not entirely great on Vullaby. Let's see what Vullaby has in store for us these next two weeks!
  6. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    I find Vullaby interesting for its ability to beat most variants of Misdreavus quite easily. Shadow Ball does almost nothing to it, as does HP Fighting. Between Brave Bird or Dark Pulse Missy doesn't really have a way to not lose :P Now I don't think Vullaby is great in this metagame by any means, with Drilbur, Porygon, and Murkrow everywhere, among others, there really isn't much room for Vullaby to shine. I find that outside of beating Misdreavus, I can't get Vullaby to do much, its good at sitting there and walling stuff, but outside of that its just adequate at best. There are just to many common threats that can beat her right now. I've never tried the NP set though, and i think it could be cool, a really bulky Murkrow!
  7. Superpowerdude

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    Vullaby definetly seems like an underated and cool lc Pokemon. In my opinion I think Vullaby is better off using its great bulk and movepool to run a support set. After all Murkrow is a way better offensive Dark/Flying Pokemon that Vullaby as to compete with. While a Weak Armour+Nasty Plot set does look good in theory. With all the strong priority moves like Mach Punch and Aqua Jet running around losing defense and gaining speed doesn't seem to appealing. With that said having an amazing support movepool and good bulk Vullaby is a very good Pokemon. Overcoat is a good ability especially seeing how common sand teams are so you don't get worn down by Sand Stream damage. With most defensive Pokemon being forced to run Evolite Sandstorm can be a real nuisance and fortunately for Vullaby it doesn't have to deal with sandstorm. Knock Off is an awesome move especially in Little Cup where there are a lot of Pokemon that rely on Evolite to be useful. Whirlwind is great for phazing and Toxic is good to cripple opposing Pokemon. A bulky pivot set with U-turn looks quite appealing something like Taunt / Knock Off / Roost / U-turn could be quite useful. Switching into Pokemon getting rid of their Evolites and then U-turning into a Pokemon that can abuse this oppurtunity like Diglett. Magnemite is probably the best partner for Vullaby because it obviously gets walled by Steel-types quite easily. Also rapid spin support would be nice to go with its Stealth Rock weakness especially if you are using a set with U-turn.
  8. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Honestly I think we're writing off the Weak Armor / Nasty Plot set too quickly. I've used it extensively, and while it doesn't necessarily sweep teams at +2 / +1 consistently, it's actually been rather amazing. This is because Weak Armor Vullaby has a lot of tricks it can play. For example, let's say Scraggy gets to +1 against Misdreavus, who uses HP Fighting. Scraggy uses Crunch while you switch to Vullaby. Vullaby now has a +1 Speed boost, outruns Scraggy, and kills it with Air Slash. Likewise, let's say they have Murkrow and you have Vullaby. He takes SR damage, and uses Brave Bird. You can Roost off the damage, get a +1 Spe boost, and kill it with Air Slash (after SR + recoil) as you resist Sucker Punch. Vullbay completely shits on most Misdreavus. There are other little games too, such as switching into Mienfoo U-Turn, and what not. There are a lot of ways you can play Vullaby well to check threats it would not even have dreamed to have been able to do. I recognize it is not the strongest Pokemon, and has tons of trouble breaking through Lileep and Chinchou and Porygon. However, it is a huge asset against more offensive teams (checking Scraggy, Misdreavus, Abra, Mienfoo, etc and Murkrow under the right circumstances), and if it gets the +2 boost, can barrel straight through them. It is, however, a bit of a liability against more defensive teams.

    I have had a ton of success using this thing along with Riolu as that messes up defensive teams like it's job. I've enjoyed using that more than bulky Vullaby, at least.
  9. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    I just <3 Vullaby, she has great bulk and the NP + WA set is amazing.

    The most successful set I have played with is Dark Pulse/Air Slash/Taunt/Roost. Taunt is just so great in this meta and having a Special Flying STAB is good as all common Fighting-types invest heavily in Def and not in SpD.

    Prior to BW2, Vullaby was an excellent Lileep check as most of them usually ran HP Fire > AncientPower; now, Vullaby is best used as a counter to defensive teams: Bronzor is screwed if it's not running Toxic/using taunt, same with Ferroseed and Foongus.

    Now that every Drilbur runs X-scissor and Shadow Claw > Rock Slide it's a very nice addition to anti-sand teams as she has Overcoat and can take a chunk from Drilbur with Dark Pulse.

    As much as I love Vullaby, it has become quite difficult for me to use her as Snover, Lileep and Chinchou are nightmares and all of them can beat her one on one. That being said, Croagunk is the best partner.
  10. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    It's been a relatively inactive two weeks, but I believe that the new PotW is a lot more interesting than many of the others recently. What makes this one so interesting is that it has pretty much no offensive potential, but instead relies a lot more on skillful manipulation to get around its inability to do direct damage. Instead, this mischevious ball of annoyance likes to get in on a move it can use Encore on, and then start a SubSeed cycle or paralyze almost any Pokemon in the metagame, even Ground-types, with priority. Cottonee will be our Pokemon of the Week!

    [​IMG]
    Cottonee
    Grass-type
    40 HP / 27 Atk / 60 Def / 37 SpA / 50 SDef / 66 Spe
    Abilities: Prankster / Infiltrator / Chlorophyll​

    As I said, Cottonee's attacking stats of 27 and 37 are very dismal, but its support movepool is huge and has everything it needs to make your opponent pull their hair out. It makes life miserable for Fake Out and Protect users, along with Stealth Rock setters and anything that doesn't like being paralyzed. Encore locks opponents into those moves, making them pretty much useless until they switch out, giving you a free turn to set up a Substitute or use Leech Seed on the switch-in. Believe me, you don't want to give Cottonee a free turn! Stun Spore is Cottonee's ace in the hole, and allows it to cripple pretty much every offensive threat out there, even Ground-types like Drilbur that usually enjoy being immune to paralysis in the form of Thunder Wave.

    Unfortunately for Cottonee, it defines four moveslot syndrome, as it has a ton of support options at its disposal, such as Taunt, Stun Spore, Substitute, Leech Seed, Encore, Protect, Toxic, and U-turn. No matter what you pick, something is going to shut down Cottonee entirely. Grass-types and Abra are immune to Leech Seed, making Cottonee set-up bait if it lacks Toxic, which Ferroseed, Abra, and Foongus laugh off anyway. Dropping Stun Spore takes a lot away from Cottonee's ability to check offensive teams. There's also the fact that Cottonee has a bit of a learning curve, and it takes more skill to use well than almost any other Pokemon out there. Even so, Cottonee can provide support like none other, so let's see how we do in the upcoming weeks with Cottonee!
  11. Rowan

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    Great choice in Cottonee, I promise I will finally make a new team around him. Will contribute once I've made a team.
  12. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    Another one of my favorites.

    Cottonee is just an AMAZING lead if carrying Taunt + Encore. Offensive Leads can be encored in a useless move against a switch and SR leads can be neutered. Even if Giga Drain does pitiful damage (not even enough to OHKO Chinchou) the healing is very appreciated, specially against sand.

    Stun Spore/Giga Drain/Taunt/Encore is just Trollish and Cottonee is bulky enough to defeat Timburr and Mienfoo.

    One thing I can't use, though, is the SubSeed strategy; with Sand being a threat, Grass-types are very common and one bad move usually means Death to Cottonee. Protect also gives the opponent a free switch to a Grass-type with HP Fire. And SubSeed is taunt Bait.

    Stun Spore Accuracy is nerve-breaking but if you hit the right 'mons it's GG against it. Also, if lacking Toxic, Lileep is a very good check.

    Cottonee can't learn U-turn.

    Finally, I have tried Cotton Guard... and it's terrible. with a Murkrow-full meta, Cotton Guard can't do a thing and you're better off Paralyzing Drilburs, Mienfoos and Special Attackers.
  13. Rowan

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    So I've been using Cottonee a bit and the one thing that really hurts it is lack of recovery. Leech Seed and Giga Drain are the only ways it can heal and the opponent can often just switch in a grass type to wall it. However, it still makes a very good counter to water and ground types.
    I have been using subseed/stun spore/encore. Stun Spore is great for hitting Snover and Murkrow switch ins. Encore hasn't been used much yet but there are situations when it is useful.
    As far as partners go, Natu is very good as it completely shuts down pretty much all grass types. You could even run wish support with it to heal Cottonee but I haven't really tried that and it's probably not as effective as the standard set. Also Chinchou is a good partner to check flying types and Heal Bell means that Cottonee doesn't have to fear toxic as much.
  14. Hawkstar

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    Silly me! Whimsicott does so I had thought Cottonee got U-turn as well.

    From my experiences so far, Stun Spore is my favorite move for Cottonee to use. With the exception of Stun Spore's disappointing accuracy, I feel that perhaps it does priority paralyzing even better than Murkrow, simply because it can hit Drilbur and Sandshrew along with everything else. I've been using Cottonee as a Snover replacement and it does a pretty good job of stopping Drilbur if you can't run Snover for any reason.

    If Stun Spore is Cottonee's most useful move, Encore is perhaps the most dangerous one. Locking opponents into Fake Out, Recover, and set-up moves gives Cottonee plenty of free turns. Boosting sweepers are absolutely helpless if they use their move, such as DD Scraggy. They can just keep getting Encored over and over as Leech Seed damage stacks up. Just the mere presence of Cottonee makes set-up sweepers much more careful about setting up, so use this to your advantage if you have shown your opponent that you are running Encore.

    I find HP Fire to be far more utile than Giga Drain, since if Cottonee has Leech Seed (which it should all the time), Grass-types become more important priorities than gaining a slight bit of HP off of Cottonee's SpA stat of 10. While Lileep still walls you utterly, Ferroseed and opposing Cottonee become less bothersome. That said, I still think Cottonee needs every moveslot it has for Prankster usage, so I haven't tested that out yet.

    The one move I haven't had much success with is Substitute. Cottonee seems to lose them too quickly. While it's not a bad choice if you need to stall for Leech Seed damage or block status, it seems like I don't get enough opportunities to use, and when I do, I think "man I wish I had used Leech Seed or Stun Spore instead!" I'm not sure what I'd like to replace it with, possibly Taunt, but yeah, Substitute is a little underwhelming.
  15. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Cottonee is actually pretty cool. While some Pokemon definitely give it major trouble (Lileep, Murkrow), it's able to fill a niche that really nothing else can. Stun Spore is legitimately so amazing. While its accuracy is a bit irritating, being able to stop a sweep "just like that" while still being able to check Drilbur and Water-types lets Cottonee fill up a lot of roles in just one slot.

    I've been using:

    Cottonee (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 196 HP / 196 Def / 116 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stun Spore
    - Leech Seed
    - Taunt
    - Giga Drain

    and it's worked pretty well, keeping Stealth Rock / Spikes off from things like Ferroseed and Bronzor who think they can set them up, paralyzing things, hitting Drilbur, and throwing its seed around.

    Some other interesting options I've been wondering are worth it are priority Switcheroo and Memento. Switcheroo could be a really cool option; it could use some sort of shitty item, like Lagging Tail or Iron Ball, and give that to a Misdreavus or Bronzor? Those do like coming in on Cottonee. Or Memento could let your sweepers like Scraggy or Tirtouga or even LIFE ORB SWORDS DANCE Drilbur set up and win. I haven't played with either of those as I haven't really played too much, so I'd like more input from people with more experience.
  16. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    OK, since the Cottonee discussion has long since died, it's time for the next featured Pokemon. This one has a unique typing that, while superb offensively, has a big SR weakness and only a few resistances. Larvesta is our next Pokemon of the Week!

    [​IMG]
    Larvesta
    55 HP / 85 Atk / 55 Def / 50 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe
    Abilities: Flame Body / Swarm​


    What stands out most about Larvesta is that awesome 85 base Attack, which combines with STAB Flare Blitz and U-turn to give us a solid physical attacker. While it does only have a few resistances, Fighting is one of them, which is huge in this metagame since the only Fighting-type that commonly runs Stone Edge is Mienfoo, and even that is somewhat rare. This, combined with its good bulk and the chance to cripple these Fighting-types with Flame Body, makes Larvesta a powerful tank.​

    Most people use Larvesta with a tanking set, but what about other sets? It has a usable Special Attack stat along with Calm Mind and Morning Sun, so it's possible a set like this could work. It would also make a powerful and speedy Choice Scarf user, being able to outpace slower Scarfers such as Snover and blow them away. This week (read as: indeterminate amount of time), let's discuss some other options that this fiery bug has in the Little Cup metagame!​
  17. Rowan

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    Larvesta is a really cool mon which works great on many balanced teams with the eviolite set, checking Fighting and Grass types very nicely. It's also one of the best Snover counters so it can be used well on a sand team, if you don't want Magnemite.

    As for other sets, Choice Scarf is actually really good, I've only just noticed it hasn't got an analysis anymore. With STAB U-turn it is such a good scarfer, keeping the momentum whilst also hitting hard with that sexy attack stat. With Wild Charge it can give Staryu and Tirtouga second thoughts about switching in as well.

    As for partners, Staryu/Drilbur is pretty obvious I won't need to tell you why. Grass types also pair well as you can U-turn out to them when a water type switches in. Also, lots of things with Volt-turn are good to start a volt-turn core with. Magnemite for instance can beat any Murkrows and Staryus that want to switch in.
  18. Skittle

    Skittle

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    I've been using the standard Evolite set a lot recently because I've been playing a lot of Volt-Turn, and Larvesta is a beast. His solid attack stat coupled with U-Turn, Wild Charge, Will-O-Wisp, Morning Sun, and Flare Blitz and a amazing ability in Flame Body makes this thing make Fighting Types, like Timburr and Evolite Mienfoo, switch out ASAP. Though Larvesta absolutely needs a spinner on the team, and a little team support, if you get it in, it's ready to wreck face...

    I haven't tried the Choice Scarf set before, but it seems like it could really be quite a good Choice Scarfed Poke. I mean it could revenge kill Snover, finish off weakened things with U-Turn, just plain deal some damage with a STABed Flare Blitz, or predict the switch and U-Turn, giving your team the upper hand...

    Though Larvesta needs a spinner, it can wall grass types all day and night, it has nice coverage, can hit hard as ****, a recovery, and is a stellar counter to Snover. All in all, Larvesta is a underused and not really explored Poke that I'm diffidently going to try out soon...
  19. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    I have been using the Scarf set for a while, and I really enjoy it. It's fast U-turn really helps with finishing off weakened stuff or switching out of something like Lileep and then going to Mienfoo to threaten with a Drain Punch or another U-turn. Flare Blitz hits really hard as well, and can OHKO Misdreavus after knocking off its Eviolite, so if it switched into Mienfoo's Knock Off, I just U-turn out and finish it off. My other two moves are Wild Charge and Return, with Wild Charge for Murkrow and Water-types, while Return hits stuff like Chinchou if I don't want to switch out. It's faster than Scarf Snover and I think Chinchou as well, so I can just U-turn out of both. It works well in tandem with Staryu, who can handle Water-types and Spin, and Pawniard can sponge Flying-type moves while Larvesta threatens Fighters.
  20. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    I'm not very fond of Larvesta but I've found that Morning Sun doesn't do anything good for it with Sand and Hail being everywhere. Return looks like a very nice option on it, I'll try it because Chinchou just seems to be everywhere when I play this bug.

    Burning is just the best thing out there for Fighting-types but when Timburr is in play you loose the freedom to just switch Larvesta into a resisted Drain Punch, for those reasons I find it very difficult to fit Larvesta into the "Fighting-type check" label many of us seem to put into it. I often run another check for Fighting-types and use Larvesta as a Snover/Bronzor/Grass counter.

    I don't think Drilbur fits well with Larvesta as Rapid Spinner as Water-type attacks are here and there in the tier and neither can comfortably switch into any of those. Staryu is better as it's more durable with Recover. When Drilbur dies, Larvesta will be dead.
  21. jmorris

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    I've never really given much effort into using Larvesta in any of my teams. It has the right moves to make it stand out, I've just never liked that x4 weakness to SR, or fire types in general.

    A team with a core of Eviolite Larvesta, Staryu and Foongus (maybe Shroomish?) might be worth a try, i'll make one over the next few days and post back here. Although i'd like to try a Sub-CM set too, just for trying's sake.
  22. Elevator Music

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    I reallllllly like the combination of Larvesta/Chinchou/Foongus. You cover most major threats (bar maybe Sand, maybe Misdreavus, maybe Scraggy), and Larvesta+Chinchou can provide a lot of offensive pressure on the opponent with VoltTurn. Of course, its pretty helpful/necessary to have spin support for Larvesta, so then throwing a Staryu or Drilbur in there is also mandatory (I like Drilbur because you can go with Sand Rush to help defend against opposing Sand teams). Larvesta is admittedly cumbersome to build around, but IDK, I like it.
  23. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    I have been using Larvesta's scarf set quite a bit. It is a fairly fast but strong scarfer to abuse and really quick U-turns are really good. imo longevity is it's main issue. It can be good with Staryu support. For the very reason of having staryu on the team, Tirtouga is surprisingly good partner for it if you can stand having 2 water types
  24. Superpowerdude

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    Larvesta's Fighting-type resist is the main thing it has going for it over other Fire-types. Letting it come in easily on a Mienfoo (that lack Stone Edge) or Scraggy and cripple them with Will-o-Wisp. Choice Scarf sets are also quite cool seeing as Larvesta has Flare Blitz, U-turn and Wild Charge to work with. Wild Charge is actually pretty cool to destroy Flying- and Water-types. Of course rapid spin support is necassary for the Choice Scarf set to work.

    Sadly aside from its role as a Fighting-type resist and strong physical attacker Larvesta really struggles. Sand teams have been on a big increase and both Drilbur and Sandshrew outspeed it in sand and KO it with Rock Slide. An insteresting core I thought of is Choice Scard Snover and Evolite Larvesta. Snover destroys sand as well as Flying and Water-types that threaten Snover. such as Drilbur, Sandshrew, Chinchou, Murkrow, Vullaby, etc. While Larvesta helps take on Fighting-types for the core and removes Steel-types for a Snover sweep. This core obviously would enjoy rapid spin support and a resist to Rock and Flying-type moves but that it quite easy to achieve. All you need is a Steel-type and a way of removing hazards. Staryu can complete the core making a nice fire water grass one.

    cool choice Hawkstar
  25. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Well, I think that's quite enough time for Larvesta's spotlight. Up next is a Pokemon that I would say is one of the most overlooked Pokemon in the metagame. With the ability to switch into every Fighting-type in the metagame with no fear of powerful Hi Jump Kicks or sneaky Knock Offs, it can beat any of them that lack Zen Headbutt. This is an excellent boon in this metagame, and one of the top reasons why it finds itself as the Pokemon of the Week. Grimer is up this time around!

    [​IMG]
    Grimer
    80 HP / 80 Atk / 50 Def / 40 SpA / 50 SpD / 25 Spe
    Abilities: Stench / Sticky Hold / Poison Touch​

    If you've never seen Grimer in a ladder match before, I wouldn't be surprised. Grimer's two big downsides are its two weaknesses, Psychic and Ground. Abra holds a solid spot as one of the most used Pokemon in the metagame, and is easily capable of blasting Grimer with Psychic or Psyshock. Also, with sand teams being dominant as they are, Drilbur and friends can also easily OHKO Grimer with Earthquake. These two reasons alone are enough to keep Grimer out of the spotlight. However, after taking a closer look, you'll see it actually has a great niche as a Fighting-type counter. Mienfoo's most popular set, for instance, can cripple most of its common switch-ins with a well-timed Knock Off or coverage move such as Stone Edge. Grimer's Sticky Hold, resistance to Drain Punch and U-turn, and lack of weakness to Stone Edge makes it arguably the best switch-in to Mienfoo in the whole metagame. With Pain Split, Grimer can regain the HP it lost from weathering assaults throughout the match, giving it sustainability as well. Combine this with the oft-overlooked Shadow Sneak and coverage moves like Fire Punch, Rock Slide, and Payback, and Grimer's got an offensive movepool to make it a great tank.

    So what do you all believe is Grimer's best set? Let's discuss that and more this "week" and see just what Grimer has for us in this metagame!

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