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Pokemon of the Week #16: Latias

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by dice, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. mcdanger

    mcdanger

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    Kyurem is good, but like dark said, hes beaten by kyurem black unless its a special set, like sub roost. Furthermore, kyurem is most effective in a hail team, tho i`ve used him with success in clear skies, and he can be used in rain, but only the sub roost set. Kyurem black however can function as a revenge killer like MCBarrents set, or as a wall breaker like onicon and gimmacks set, or a weather counter like my set, as well as a late game sweeper.
    So to sum up my point, both kyurem and kyurem black are equally as good, but black outclasses normal kyurem in every set with the exception of special sets.
  2. Onicon

    Onicon

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    Kyurem hardly outclasses Kyubey in special attacking. While even specially based Kyubeys resort to Fusion Bolt for the BoltBeam coverage (seriously, 376 Atk without investments is just sweet, and still higher than its SAtk), it does not do any less KOs with its lower SAtk. Besides, Kyurem does not have a neat way to bypass bulky Rotom-W (Pain Split) without Dragon Pulse, with is mostly reduntant with Ice Beam and therefore the inferior option. Kyubey screws over Levitation with Teravolt and therefore does not have to spend one of its moveslot. Secondly, Kyurem has to use LO Earth Power in order to 2HKO Mamoswine. That creates an undesirable situation because it allows your opponent to predict your next move more easily. Kyubey just Ice Beams though its Thick Fat for safer playing.

    Honestly, Kyurem has to play a Pressure Rooster in order not to get outclassed. It has the choice between offensive Sub-Roost or defensive Sub-Roost, at least.
  3. mcdanger

    mcdanger

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    Which is roughly what I said. Speaking of which, Kyurem can also has a spot over black because pressure as onicon said, letting him PP stall, arguably making him a better shifter then kyurem black. Especially as the moves most pokemon use to break his sub only have 4 attacks from pressure.
  4. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Pretty much spot on, original recipe Kyurem needs to play PP Stall in order to actually outclass his big brother, and the situations are far in between. I did like the way it worked on Hail teams, effectively stalling with Hail preventing your opponent's recovery is pretty neat.
  5. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    What partners do you feel are best for Kyurem / Kyurem-B? What kinds of teams have you used them on?
  6. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

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    There's a few things that Kyurem-B really hates and those are hazards, priority moves, scarfed musketeers, steel types and scarfed dragons. Thats kind of a lot which is why Kyurem-B needs a lot of support to be successful but i've found that a standard sun team provides that support pretty well.

    Heatran and xatu can take steel and fighting type priority very easily. Xatu also does a very good job of protecting Kyurem-B from hazards and status. Keldeo has a very hard time against sun and both him terrakion can be revenge killed by venusaur. Obviously sun teams do a good job of clearing out steel types bar heatran. For that i ran a mamoswine, which also provided super effective priority to scarf dragons that were faster than scarf kyurem-b. I think these are all good partners in their own light and i think that scarf Kyurem-B has really good synergy on the average sun team
  7. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
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    For Kyurem, the best partner in my opinion is honestly Abomasnow. Abomasnow's Hail Warning ability means Kyurem can abuse a 100% accuracy Blizzard that is extremely powerful. Hail damage is also great at chipping away at the HP of the opponent while ridding the field of Sandstorm damage which negates the Leftovers recovery on the Sub+Roost set which is the only Kyurem set I run. The only type of team I've run Kyurem on is Hail, I feel like it is outclassed by other special attackers such as Latios and Landorus on teams that do not use hail support.
  8. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    See my above post. I'm a Kyurem-B + Volcarona freak.
  9. Onicon

    Onicon

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    For us, anything that draws out things that cannot break its sub. Ninetales almost guarantee an incoming Politoed, making double switching ridiculously easy.
    And of course anything that needs its service, removing bulky water. Volcanora and Heatran comes in mind.
  10. mcdanger

    mcdanger

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    Something to handle scizor, ferrothorn, and jirachi, as all threaten to break kyurem sub, tho kyurem 3hkos jirachi via earth power. Something to handle fast fighting like terrakion and keldeo, as well as mach punch breloom. Thus magnezone/celebi are good partners, while offensively, breloom does a good job as it can low sweep threats that come in and spore/ko them.
    Team style wise, kyurem black works good on a bulky offensive team, as well as balanced, while normal kyurem works on balanced and semi stall team.
  11. Milos

    Milos

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    2 very good partners for kyurem are tentacruel and landorus-t. both of them resist fighting attacks, while tentacruel resists water as well as steel, providing you a good check to scizor and keldeo once they force kyurem out. lando-t is my current favorite terrakion counter in the game, since it is not even 2HKO'd by choice band stone edge after intimidate.

    here's a calc of 252 atk cb stone edge vs 252 hp/ 212 def+ lando-t after intimidate:
    Show Hide
    357 Atk vs 277 Def & 382 HP (100 Base Power): 139 - 165 (36.39% - 43.19%)


    basically, pokemon that can outright KO kyurem (keldeo, terrakion, scizor, breloom, fighting types faster than kyu) are handled by a combination of tentacruel and lando-t. breloom and keldeo are probably the most problematic of the bunch since loom can incapacitate something with spore and subcm keldeo will beat kyurem and tentacruel if toxic spikes weren't laid down beforehand. for this, latias makes a good offensive partner, being able to hit both with psyshock as well as resisting both of their STAB moves.

    i feel like i've been posting a lot about kyurem lately... whatever :pimp:
  12. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    I absolutely agree. I've been using a hail team with Lando-T and Tentacruel alongside Sub/Roost Kyurem, and they work really well together, dealing with annoying Keldeo and Terrakion that can be a huge pain for Hail teams in general. Breloom is only really a problem if it hasn't already Spored something, in which case something like Celebi might be useful as well. But part of what makes Kyurem so great is that it usually has a sub up when its counters come in, which means that you get a free hit on whatever that Pokémon might be (or you could Roost up) before sending in your counter to that counter.
  13. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    And you're welcomed, I've always had the itch to try Kyurem because its quite attractive with that crazy BST and his Ice STAB.

    I admit that this week has me more excited than the Ninetales week...

    What coverage would you run on a Sub+3 Attacks Kyurem-B build? (I'm thinking probably mixed?)
  14. Milos

    Milos

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    i ran sub + 3 attacks kyurem-b on a hyper offensive team with sub/outrage/ice beam/fusion bolt. outrage is pretty much necessary to just open holes in the opponent's team and fusion bolt takes care of skarmory/bulky waters (although in the case of rotom-w, you're better off just hitting it with outrage). i preferred ice beam to be able to KO dragons behind a sub without having to lock myself into outrage but it does leave kyu-b pretty useless against heatran, but the team i was using it on had at least 4 ways to KO it. if your team really dislikes heatran/jirachi, earth power could be used but usually ice beam is the superior choice.
  15. Onicon

    Onicon

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    As anyone tried physicaly-mixed yet? We have thought that one up a while ago to answer a random question. This set tries to deal most of the damage though neutral damage on the physical side (LO is mandatory), while using its special moves to tech though certain threats.

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 236 Spe
    EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SAtk / 240 Spe (only for HP Fire)
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) or Lonely (+Atk, -Def)
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast / Substitute
    - Outrage / Substitute

    Fusion Bolt is strong enough to 2HKO specially defensive Heatran and Jirachi after SR or Spikes and therefore is a good substitute for Earth Power on the specially mixed one.
    We are a bit indecisive about the last two moves. Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs Forretress though its Sturdy and CB-Scizor 87.5% of the times outside of rain (100% with Lonely); Fusion Bolt 2HKOs it otherwise anyway. Focus Blast makes short work of Tyranitar and Mamoswine and 2HKOs Ferrothorn like HP Fire outside of rain (Adamant, Lonely does nothing).
    Dragon Claw is NOT an option because of the redundant coverage with Fusion Bolt. However, Outrage is the viable to OHKO Mamoswine and it allows you to OHKO Gastrodon and Terrakion; without subs however, you cannot check the latter one properly.

    How do you thing it fares against the specially mixed set? We hadn't the opportunity to test this one yet.
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I rarely use Kyurem, especially now that Kyurem-B is legal, but when I did I ran the Sub + 3 atks set. On Kyurem-B, I more or less use the same thing; Sub + 3 Attacks (mixed). I initially bought into the CB hype, but I find that the sub mixed sets are much, much more dangerous in the BW OU metagame. If you can find an opportunity to set up (not too hard with that insane bulk, provided you're healthy) Kyurem-B usually got me kills.

    Teammate wise, I either ran a spinner (Tentacruel, Starmie, etc) or another Dragon since Kyurem-B lures out most, if not all dragon checks and beats them.
  17. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    Later today I will change the Pokemon of the Week so post your final thoughts!
  18. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Final thought: using Kyurem-B in OU is basically wielding a god. But it lies at number 42 on the statistics for January. 42. The answer to Life, the Drizzle-verse, and Everything.
  19. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    I replaced Kyurem with Kyurem-B on my hail team, and I have to say, I love it more than I thought I would. There are a few times when I miss Pressure, but they don't outweigh the times when I'm glad I have the ability to destroy Bronzong and Rotom-W as well as pound bulky waters with Fusion Bolt. I've been using the set that (I think) BKC was recommending with Sub/Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt/Earth Power, and honestly it just makes me giddy how well it works in this metagame.
  20. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    [​IMG]
    Latias


    Type: Dragon / Psychic
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 80 Atk / 90 Def / 110 SpA / 130 SpD / 110 Spe
    Abilities: Levitate
    Notable Moves:
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Recover
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Healing Wish
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Surf
    - Reflect Type
    - Roar
    - Wish

    BW2 has drastically changed many player's thoughts on Latias. In BW1 if one wanted a Life Orb'd Lati@s they'd immediate use her brother, Latios; however, BW2's releases in abilities and Pokemon changed this. Keldeo, Special Landorus, Breloom, etc. now being released has made Latias a much more prominent figurehead in OU. With its unique typing coupled with fantastic Special bulk and great Special Attack, Latias is a powerhouse. Although she may be weaker than her brother, she comes with more bulk and a cool move in Healing Wish. Healing Wish gives you another sweeper on your team a second life, and can be gamechanging.

    Discuss this new Pokemon of the Week!
  21. Laga

    Laga We will never hear about the truly perfect crime.
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    I personally prefer to use Latias over Latios, because the mattering bulk+SpAtk is better on latias, since Latios has a base 80 def and base 90 atk, whilst latias has those 2 swapped around.
    Unless you are using specs or scarf, i would prefer Latias because of the extra bulk :)
  22. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Roost

    Latias has higher bulk than Latios and this is useful in many chances, it's useful to tank Keldeo and Rock Polish Landorus' attacks better, for example. The higher bulk is the only point to use Life Orb Latias instead of Life Orb Latios in my opinion, so I always decide to give her 72 EVs on HP to resist to Venusaur's Sludge Bomb at +2 (which is always nice since Venusaur can be a threat for many team) and to tank better some strong hits like Landorus' Hidden Power Ice and Keldeo's Hydro Pump (which is always a 3HKO on Latias when rain is up). As last thing, I'd add that I usually use Surf instead of Hidden Power Fire because it's generally better to hit stuff like Tyranitar and Landorus (Draco Meteor's drop is really bad because it allows much setup) but Hidden Power Fire is a nice option because it hits strong Ferrothorn, Jirachi and destroys Scizor which can block Latias easily if she lacks HP Fire.
  23. Milos

    Milos

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    latias is a godsend in this metagame. it singlehandedly provides teams a check against sun and rain teams, it has useful resistances to some of the most dominant types in the metagame (fighting, water, electric AND an immunity to ground) and most of all it shares the throne of the fastest dragon in OU. being able to outspeed the 108 speed group (and KO'ing them all with psyshock) is extremely useful.

    imo the sole reason to use latias over latios is because of her bulk. because of her special bulk, she can run both offensive and defensive sets, making latias way more versatile than latios. what i like about her is that she has just enough firepower to be a threat offensively, while still being able to tank things like rain boosted hydro pumps / thunders, something latios cannot.

    there is only one real downside to latias: being pursuit weak. with scizor #1 in usage, and the tyranitar + keldeo combo becoming increasingly popular, latias must be careful when playing against these threats. despite this, she still manages to shine in OU.

    btw alexander: 72 HP latias takes 79.94% - 94.04% from timid LO sludge bomb at +2, meaning it has a 41% chance to OHKO latias after rocks. if you wanna really invest HP into latias for venusaur insurance i'd just go for the full 252 HP.
  24. Glen

    Glen
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    i like 200 hp/52 spa/252 spd, you survive the sludge bomb and also turn scarf keldeo's hp ice into a 3hko after rocks and sandstorm, while the 52 ap atk evs are helpful with increasing the odds of ohkoing the occasional leftovers keldeo
  25. Shokwav

    Shokwav

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    Latias is scary as hell. SubCM with Recover and DPulse is a terrifying set to face; I've 6-0d competant players who forgot to pack an answer to it. Not to mention that the LO set is pretty damn good, however it has some stiff competition from Celebi in this role.

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