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Pokemon of the Week #16: Latias

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Dice, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. StairFall

    StairFall

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    Does reuniclus get psycho shift by any chance? A pokemon both immune to status and a 100% accurate burn move would be great. Right now this set seems wasteful as you're giving up LO for being a niche counter to Breloom before sleep clause is up and being slightly better at beating Jirachi in a calm mind war (sub cm is usually in the rain with water pulse though so you can still get haxxed.)
  2. RaijueR

    RaijueR

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    Well can't argue on that one on flame orb being wasteful, but it still can prove to be useful.

    Sadly Reuniclus does not learn Psycho shift, but flame orb can work on a trick set.
  3. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    What's the point of using Choice Specs, when Reuniclus, thanks to Magic Guard, takes no damage from Life Orb? I know that you habe Trick, but this is very, very hard to justify over simply using Life Orb, as thanks to Reuniclus' Psychic typing, low speed and the fact that it's going to be locked on one attack, it's very easy to defeat. Alas, if it get locked on a Psychic-type move, Tyranitar and Scizor can take even more advantage of this to outspeed and either OHKO him or Pursuit him. Other Reuniclus can at least get around the two with good prediction skills, but this Reuniclus cannot even do that.

    Anyway, my favorite set is the CM set, which I've used on the past on sandstorm teams, before Genesect was introduced:

    Reuniclus (F) @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock / Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover

    Life Orb takes advantage of Magic Guard, and is useful when Reuniclus needs to attack right off the bat when you don't have sufficient boosts. Leftovers is also good because it boosts Reuniclus' survivability quite a bit.

    Psyshock defeats the pink blobs much more easily and lets Reuniclus win Calm Mind wars against anything not named Jirachi. However, Psychic gets a harder hit on physically based threats such as Hippowdon and Slowbro. Focus Blast is the best coverage move that Reuniclus have. While Psychic-types resist both of Reuniclus' moves, there are some Psychic-types on OU that take neutral damage from Focus Blast, and with some boosts, Reuniclus can defeat them regardless. Other things like Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball aren't recommended. The former leaves Reuniclus vulnerable to Tyranitar and any other Dark-type not weak to Fire, not to mention Heatran. The latter leaves Reuniclus walled by any Steel-type not neutral to Shadow Ball or Psychic-type STAB.

    I prefer Life Orb or Leftovers as items because their benefits are much more notable than being capable of defeating Breloom. Also, Reuniclus can simply switch on a predicted status move or Toxic Spikes if it wants to become immune to status. I also don't like Hidden Power Fire as a coverage move because of the reasons explained above. It's a shame that CM Reuniclus suffers from 4MSS, because Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball would be great coverage moves alongside Focus Blast and a Psychic-type STAB, but with only 2 rooms for coverage, Focus Blast is the best coverage move that can be run and its coverage is too hard to pass up.

    As a last note, Hidden Power Fighting can be used if you really dislike missing with Focus Blast, but it doesn't have nearly as much power as Focus Blast, and can't OHKO/2HKO most targets of Focus Blast with either prior damage, hazards or some extra boosts.
  4. blunder

    blunder

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    I would recommend running 8 Speed EV's in conjunction with Life Orb and Psyshock as at plus 5 you 2HKO opposing Reuniclus with Psyshock
  5. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

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    What role do you guys think Reuniclus has to play in this meta?
    IMO the OTR is Reuni's only viable set right now, and it's biggest niche is cleaning up offensive teams late game. Reuni has to be capable of more, though.
  6. justsomedude86

    justsomedude86

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    [​IMG]


    Credit to Wupar for the above image http://wupar.deviantart.com/

    Can't argue with OTR Reuniclus, probably one of my favorite and most used pokes in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he can 2hko the entire OU metagame just with a set of Psychic/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast. People always say Psychic is a horrible attack coverage wise, but it still lands a lot of nuetral hits with it. And blah blah Stealth Rocks brings most of OU into OHKO range too.

    I've had some good experience with CM Reuni too, as it still dismantles stall teams like nothing else with its immunity to damaging status and passive damage. I still prefer Psyshock on the set to break through walls on both sides of the spectrum though. When you factor in STAB, you have two equally powerful moves in Psyshock/Focus Blast that can aim for either defensive stat.

    I've tried the Flame Orb trick set, but I found it to be very lacking because I would rather use something that can use will-o-wisp on something else. For the record, a +2 Breloom with Bullet Seed is still going to dismantle that Reuniclus hard.

    As for other viable sets, there isn't really much. Reuniclus gets a pretty nice movepool with some nice tricks, but tends not to be able to abuse some of these other choices well. It has too much HP for Pain Split (and has Recover), it has better things to do than Sub, Psych Up could be interesting, Explosion could be used to bring something in after Trick Room untouched (but Reuniclus can abuse Trick Room entirely by itself).

    The only other option I could consider is using Future Sight on a CM set, letting you set up and spam recover on a would-be counter till they are forced out by the Future Sight. It even has 10 more base power than Psychic and now register's STAB from the user, but waiting for delayed damage is always tricky.

    Point in short, go OTR or CM, or go home. It's all this thing really needs and both sets have completely different counters. Kind of reminds me of Salamence in 4th gen in some ways, save for no SR weak ;)
  7. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Reuniclus makes a pretty bad Specs user for a number of reasons, First and foremost; Psychic is not an ideal STAB to be locked into. It can easily be taken advantage by Scizor and Tyranitar to gain momentum or to trap you. The most important thing about a Choice user is having a great STAB and Psychic is not that great (low base power move+resisted by many steels and more). Let's compare it to the STAB's of the best choice users Dragon, Water, Fighting, and Rock. Dragon-types have access to 120 base power Outrage and 140 base power Draco Meteor; Water-types have access to 120 base power Hydro Pumps that get boosted further by rain; Fighting types have access to 120 base Close Combats; and Rock-types have access to 100 base power Stone Edge (well TTar and Terrak have other perks). All of them have much better coverage than Psychic (super effective and neutral) than Psychic. These high base power moves are also found in the rain dependent 120-base power Hurricane and Thunder from Tornadus-T and Jolteon respectfully.

    Second there is a bit of oppurtunity cost with Reuniclus. Magic Guard's benefit of preventing hazard damage is also brings out the question "Why not use Life Orb?". Reuniclus' bulk is still preserved with Magic Guard, so the only benefit of running Specs is if it gained a certain KO that otherwise would not be achieved with Life Orb. I can't find any, but looking at the mass calculators these are the potential OHKO gained by running Specs over Life Orb with Psychic and they do not seem to be worth it. IMO 2hko's are less important than the OHKO's since one can switch out to an appropriate resist on the choice user.
    Code:
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 85.61 - 101.33%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 88.4 - 104.38%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 88.71 - 104.7%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jolteon: 90.77 - 106.64%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jolteon: 90.77 - 107.38%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 91.73 - 108.26%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 92.96 - 109.37%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 94.33 - 111.33%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 95.16 - 112.38%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 95.65 - 112.7%
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Reuniclus Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 98.61 - 116.02%
    Edit: @Dark Fallen Angel when you say psychic types neutral to focus blast you mean are referring to the steel/psychic types of the tier: Bronzong, Metagross, and Jirachi. Unforunately, "you can defeat them with a few boost regardless" is not true other than Bronzong's case. You won't be able to effectively boost vs Metagross since it will spam Meteor Mash awaiting a critical hit or attack boost while you recover. in Jirachi's case it can either prevent you from boosting with flinch had and paralysis if it is the specially defensive variant (scarf's iron head hurts) or it can engage in a CM war with and ultimately come out on top due due bad with Thunder/Water Pulse or a flash canon special defense drop (it also 4x resists Psyshock)
  8. HackerKing

    HackerKing

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    Well, I've tried a supporting movepool, but other than Trick Room and Dual Screens, he doesn't bring much to the table. He was actually pretty useful as a lead that could set-up dual screens. The opponent would bring in their T-Tar or Scizor and kill it (most of the time with Pursuit), which provided my SD Breloom with a set-up opportunity. It was gimicky, and I don't recommend Reuniclus as a lead.
  9. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Reuniclus was a big favourite of mine in BW1 era and before the introduction of Genesect. While I can see the point of OTR, and I guess it's a very good set, the CM set is my favourite by far: it pairs perfectly with Tyranitar and a Steel / Fighting type (or something to absorb U-Turns) and can dismantle unprepared team single handedly. Without Genesect around, you just need to remove Scizor and Tyranitar, and both of those can be quite weakened by Reuniclus itself, if you play smartly. After that, and 1-2 CM boosts, almost everything will barely scratch you, and crits aside you can easily dismantle whatever the opponent throws at you. Okay, this may be an exaggeration, but only to a point. I'm probably going to test it again in this Gege-free meta and see if it still works as it used to be.
  10. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    I've been testing CM Reuniclus in the new Meta, and it's actually viable. Scizor and Tyranitar typically are on the same team, while against other teams Reuniclus has ample time to set-up, especially on things like Ferrothorn.
  11. Wizarus

    Wizarus

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    Plus Slowking does the whole "Slow Specs" set better because of STAB Surf and alot more resistances. Reuniclus is better with Life Orb.
  12. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    What I am curious to know if you guys use TR Reuniclus only on dedicated TR teams. I've actually been on the situation where I battled against people using this set on non-dedicated TR teams, and they were using fast Pokémon. After I defeated their Reuniclus, I could actually "outspeed" and defeat the rest of their team. This is obviously not the way to go.
  13. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    During the time when I used TR Reuniclus, I generally kept at least one other Pokemon in the back of my pocket that could abuse TR should Reuniclus go down. With that said, Reuniclus does not need to be on a dedicated TR team to be effective; he just needs a safe switch in and a sufficiently weakened team. Dedicated TR teams are kind of silly, anyway.
  14. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi

    Type: Steel / Psychic
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
    Abilities: Serene Grace

    Notable Moves:
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder
    - Thunder Wave
    - Wish
    - Water Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Fire Punch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Psyshock
    - Trick
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Grass Knot

    The biggest haxer in OU is now the Pokemon of the Week! Jirachi is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the tier, and it performs all of its sets wonderfully. Its infamous Body Slam and Iron Head ParaFlinch combination coupled with Serene Grace makes it a formidable Special Wall, whilst it's a fantastic sweeper as well, especially in rain, utilizing moves like Thunder(bolt) and Water Pulse. Jirachi can even perform a Scarf set well. Instead of revenge killing its enemies.. well.. it haxes them.

    Discuss!
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh, cool, Jirachi. Never gets boring, doesn't it?

    This is a more offensive twist on the support set that I use from time to time:

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Body Slam / Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch

    Yep, the classic Substitute + Paralysis set. Granted, it's walled by a few threats, but I'l just pull out the teammates.png on you guys, and Jirachi is meant to be a support Pokemon in itself. Basically, come in on something you can threaten, paralyze it, and find opportunities to keep yourself behind a Substitute.

    The EVs allow Jirachi to live a Seismic Toss or Night Shade from defensive threats, and keeps it still fairly able to wall some attacks. 96 Spe are enough to outrun all Mamoswine, in addition to Jolly Breloom and Adamant Lucario, which is pretty nice. Overall, this thing's use pretty darned useful.
  16. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast @manu 11: Arcticblast joined, gg all
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    My favorite Jirachi set:

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Body Slam / Thunder Wave / Thunder
    - Iron Head
    - U-Turn
    - Wish / Fire Punch

    Specially defensive Jirachi is a pretty awesome Pokemon. The classic paraflinch combo is a given on this set. U-Turn is great to grab momentum, especially on a Rain team when your opponent suspects you might be SubCM. Wish is a good team support option while Fire Punch whacks Ferro, Forry and Scizor. (Also Escavalier but does anyone even use that?)
  17. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Thunder
    - Psyshock / Flash Cannon
    - Calm Mind

    Ojama's and my rain stall uses this, and I really enjoy using this set. Despite the popular belief, you can beat Ferrothorn without Substitute or a Fire-type move if you're lucky with your own paralysis (assuming the opponent's Ferrothorn carries Thunder Wave). The set is quite simple: switch in on a Dragon, Wish/CM and have some fun. The best part about Psyshock and Thunder is the great coverage they have together: its biggest cockblock is bulky ground-types like Donphan and Hippowdon. This set actually beats Gastrodon, however, so mark that off the list! Between its unrivaled ability to both be a great team supporter and offensive menace at the same time, this Jirachi is a great set.
  18. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock

    I was actually using this version on a non-Rain team. Psychic/Electric coverage has ample neutral coverage, and despite being resisted by a common sight, Ferrothorn, it can't do much to Jirachi and is used as a setup bait most of time. Plus, +6 Psyshock can 2HKO most Ferrothorn.

    Psyshock means that Jirachi is somewhat of a mixed sweeper, that slowy boosts and can sweep when all things that could defeat it are gone, or if it is behind a substitute. It also receives STAB and means that Jirachi can easily break through the pink blobs.

    This time, an bulky and fast EV spread is used, but with a physically defensive EV spread, Ferrothorn's attacks can never break Jirachi's substitutes, although I don't really recommend this with Substitute. If you plan using such EV spread, you are better off using Wish, because it can let you potentially defeat Dugtrio.

    Jirachi is a great "mixed" sweeper with SubCM, but there are one type of Pokémon that counter this set: physically bulky Ground-types. Actually, most Ground-types will give problems to Jirachi. Gliscor and Hippowdon laughs at Jirachi's moves, Dugtrio can trap Jirachi, and worst yet, Quagsire counters Jirachi by being immune to Thunderbolt, taking laughable damage from Psyshock, and ignoring all boosts from CM. All those can defeat Jirachi with Earthquake.

    For this reason, specially defensive Celebi makes for a great partner. It can take attacks from most Ground-types, and defeat them with Giga Drain or Hidden Power Ice. Celebi can also use Perish Song to scare away dangerous sweepers, or support Jirachi with Thunder Wave or Stealth Rock. Offensive Celebi is another great partner for Jirachi. It can do all the above, but it can't support Jirachi that much otherwise. Even Nasty Plot Celebi can be a good partner. Unfortunately, they share a weakness to Fire-type attacks. For this reason, another good partner is Heatran. They both share an weakness to Ground-type attacks, though, but Heatran can support Jirachi with Stealth Rock, burning Ground-types, or even defeating them with a surprise Hidden Power Grass. Any Water-type will also work well with Jirachi, as they resist Fire and scare most Ground-types. Keldeo can, in special, either wallbreak for Jirachi, using Choice Specs, or revenge kill using a Scarf, most Ground-types that would give trouble for Jirachi.

    Actually, one premier partner for Jirachi is Latias. Latias can defeat most Pokémon that would give trouble for Jirachi, such as Landorus and Keldeo. It also resists Fire and is immune to Ground, while Jirachi resists Dragon, Ice, and takes little from most Dark-, Ghost-, and Bug-type attacks.
  19. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    Is it just me, or do you find SpDef Celebi and a Jirachi redundant? Both cover similar threats.. I don't know. I just don't think Celebi is as great of a partner as you say.
  20. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Well, SpDef Jirachi and offensive/NP Celebi aren't actually redundant, as the former provide support for the latter. However, I must admit that I have yet to test if the reverse (offensive Jirachi and defensive Celebi) is true. However, Jirachi can't actually handle Landorus and Keldeo as well as Celebi (Ground-type attacks, and rain-boosted Water-type attacks, respectively), while Celebi cannot handle Dragon-types.
  21. BlankZero

    BlankZero
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    RainRachi.

    I'm gonna go throw up now. I hate that thing so damn much.
  22. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    [​IMG]
    F*ck with me ;)

    There are days I want to just take this little fairy pixie, smash its head against speeding train, boil it in hot oil, then stomp it until it shatters. All because it Iron Head flinched my entire team to death. With a Scarf.
    But there are other days, when I want to just kiss that cute face and honestly just f*ck with it. Those days are when I flinch people to death with Rachi. :)
    I'm sure everyone has mixed feelings about this Pokemon. To all the babies that complain about haxs and crits, Jirachi is the god to be blamed. While us battlers do not control the hax and try to embrace it, Jirachi delivers swift haxs and tears of frustration.
    LOL. Being serious now...

    My favorite set would have to be...Choice Scarf or the Offensive CM Varient. Jirachi doesn't need excessive coverage when it has haxs on its side. Too tired to write much, but Jirach is definitely a Pokemon worth playin' with.
    =======================================
    [​IMG]
  23. BlankZero

    BlankZero
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    Pretty much this. Jirachi is either hated or loved depending on what side you're on. Scarf Jirachi is just the devil though. I hate that little Pixie.
  24. ChrisTehAwesome

    ChrisTehAwesome

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    I think Jirachi's biggest advantage in this meta is being one of the only pokemon to reliably switch in on Tornadus-T. This is pretty much the sole reason I use him when I do, as iron head flinching does take quite a while. Spreading paralysis is a really nice benefit as well, I just feel like his defensive capabilities are more valuable.
  25. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Ah, yes. Jirachi.
    The pokemon that manages to circumvent all the negative stigma sorrounding "hax", the same that got relatively harmless items and abilities such as Brightpowder and Snow Veil banned.

    What is there to say about this little troll? The paraflinch set is still its best and most reliable set - I personally don't like the scarf set since it lacks a powerful STAB move and fails to even 3HKO many threats, even with a SE attack.

    The specially defensive set is pretty good, especially now that Genesect is out of the picture, but it usually struggles against Gastrodon and Sheer Force Landorus, so it's imperative to pair it with something that can beat them.

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