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Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Dice, Nov 27, 2012.
I do too. The point was Latias can't do anything besides Substitute without dying.
Sub / CM Latias is excellent on Rain teams. Why? Tyranitar hates Toxic Spikes, Rain, and Burn even more. Burn him or Toxic up, throw up your Sub and Latias sweeps every match. It's like clockwork.
Tar isn't great in this Metagame. I like Choice Band the most but he is a pretty reliable user of SR too. I think every Tar should outspeed Scizor though at all costs so you can punish it with CB Stone Edge or fry it with Fire Blast. That will teach those damn Scizor about U-turning!
Who uses Toxic Spikes nowadays? Also, Tyranitar is not going to switch on Scald. This would be an imbecility. Also, most Band Tyranitar use sufficient speed to outspeed uninvested base 70s like Politoed and Skarmory, so they can outspeed Choice Band/Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, unless for some reason it also runs speed EVs (most run HP EVs, though. I am using 48 speed EVs so that Politoed doesn't just wash Scizor away with Hydro Pump).
On rain teams, the only thing that could really guarantee that Tyranitar doesn't disturb Latias is Dugtrio (if Politoed is still alive). If Tyranitar defeats Latias, at least Dugtrio can use this opportunity to get a free switch, trap Tyranitar, and then defeat him. This lets you easily win the weather war (unless you are using the famous Double Sand strategy). You can then use a backup plan to defeat the opposing team (just doesn't rely on Latias to defeat the opponent, and this strategy should work).
Tyranitar was a great Pokemon in BW1 with his massive stats and great movepool. He had the ability to surprise some of his usualy checks such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor with Fire Blast and Gliscor with Ice Beam. There were multiple sets he could run including Specially Defensive, Scarf, Band, and an uncommon but very threatening Dragon Dance set that could clean up late game. In BW2, however, I feel that Tyranitar is not as effectve due to all the fighting types running around and the vast number of Rain teams as well as Sun teams running Venasaur and Dugtrio. Personally, I prefer Hippowdon over Tyranitar as a Sandstorm summoner because he can check some of the top threats in the current metagame such as Garchomp, Terrakion, and Scizor. Hippowdon also has an easier time winning the weather war due to having recovery through Slack Off
I think that the best set for an offensive team is Banded T-tar. He is a great teammate for Scarf Keldeo because he can trap and kill 99% of his counters. Just think about it...Celebi, Latios, Latias, Jellycent, Gastrodon, Tentacruel, Starmie...but not toxicroak.
Anyways, he has the most powerful stone edge of the game having the capability to destroy switch-ins.
252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Heatran: 81.11% - 95.67% - 2 hits to KO
252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/0 Def Politoed: 90.62% - 107.03% - 43.75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 4 HP/0 Def Venusaur: 106.62% - 125.5% - Guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 40 HP/0 Def Gliscor: 75.75% - 89.04% - 2 hits to KO
EDIT: Banded Rhyperior has the most powerful stone edge in the game.
I find that most sun teams in particular struggle against band tar, because once you switch it in to their ninetales/forry/whatever, they are hard pressed to find anything that can take the incoming stone edge/crunch.
Rain teams suffer a similar fate, but not as pronounced due to ferro/jirachi/etc.
Tyranitar does a wonderful job in Uber Metagame: Sand is pretty useful against anything: Raising your special defense against Kyurem/Reshiram and proving sand stream for excadrill OR against Lugia (Multiscale). I also really like to ticklewobb pursuit my enemies with it. Overall a really useful Pokemon.
Tyranitar (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
Tyranitar (F) @ LeftoversTrait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Special Defense
Careful Nature (+Special Defense,Special Attack)
- Stealth Rock/Roar/Rest
- Earthquake/Roar/Sleep Talk
- Stone Edge
-> Movepool depends on your team, though.
I agree. There's a problem, however, when they carry Dugtrio. This alone can
frighten Tyranitar in a way that you must be good at prediction and double switching if you don't want to lose your Tyranitar, or carry an Balloon Heatran (it can easily deal with Dugtrio, especially if it has Flame Charge). I know this because of a battle that I've fortunately managed to avoid Dugtrio until I could wear down Ninetales, and win the weather war. Other than this, it's very true that sun teams will struggle against Band Tyranitar, especially if it's paired with the aforementioned Balloon Heatran, as I don't see many sun teams carrying Fighting-types like Terrakion to patch up this problem.
Is someone using the Scarf set? I've found it to be somewhat underwhelming in this metagame. Although it can beat Gengar, Starmie and Terrakion much more reliably than if it used Band, the bane of that set will always be Tornadus-T and Alakazam, two things that outspeed Scarf Tyranitar without a Scarf themselves (or a boost), not to mention that even with Choice Scarf, Dugtrio is still faster. Also, it fails to revenge kill Breloom and many Dragon-types. For me, the extra power of the Choice Band set is currently being of more help.
I've been using Special Defense with some success
Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Special Defense
Nature : + Special Defense - Speed
- Pursuit : It kills every psychic and Gengar (Focus Blast hurts, but you can survive)
- Stone Edge
- Ice beam or Flamethrower ( Gliscor or Skarmory ?)
- Stealth Rock
Crunch is a more accurate STAB than Stone Edge, not to mention that it destroys Psychic- and Ghost-types that would want to stay-in, something that Pursuit cannot do, and that's one of Tyranitar's main jobs. Although I think that, if your team really do not have problems with them, then maybe replacing it with Stone Edge would be a better choice to beat Flying- and Fire-types, something that Tyranitar cannot do without Stone Edge, despite being able to wall most of them.
As for the third slot, Fire Blast should always be used instead of Flamethrower. The extra power is worth the accuracy loss, especially because some variants of Ferrothorn and Skarmory can survive Fire Blast. As for Ice Beam, I wouldn't recommend it unless your team really have a lot of problems with Gliscor, Landorus, and Garchomp, since Stone Edge already maims most (other) Dragon-types. The loss of Fire Blast really hurts when you have to defeat Ferrothorn and other Steel-types.
tornadus t's hurricane can OHKO latios; ttar's crunch can OHKO latios, maybe he should be up for suspect guys?!
I don't see your point. Just because he can kill Latios too doesn't mean that it needs a suspect...
As much as I love tyranitar as a pokemon, I really dont love him in the current state of the meta. Rain is just to dominant over him, things like tornadus-t and keldeo completely laugh at this guy. Also sun has good old dugtrio to kill ttar and win the weather war. Thats why right now when I run sand I really prefer to just run sp def hippowdon, as he can win the weather war a hell of alot easier. Mons like jirachi can do alot of what ttar does, counter lati@s, take sp hits etc while also checking the biggest threat in ou right now, torn-t. I just really dont like ttar in this meta right now.
Usually, banded t-tar solves the problem as DarkFallenAngel said. You just need to death fodder something when ninetales comes in and then just kill her with pursuit on the switch out or stone edge, it is like a mind game. Here some calcs.
252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/0 Def Ninetales: 80% - 94.29%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
This is enough to kill ninetales after rocks damage and win the weather war (unless your opp carries sunny day heatran).
^Still its a mind game that could go either way, and that's not even a 0hko :o. Spdef hippodown doesnt have to worry about duggy at all.
I agree with the Hippo thing but its not that difficult, remember that Ninetales has no way to recover hp apart from Rest and Lefties, she has rocks weakness and once she took the 25% t-tar comes and pursuit. The mind game is still there as you said, but its way too ez to predict against sun, ninetales too frail :[
Also, SpD Hippowdon has the same problems with rain as Tyranitar has. It cannot tank even rain-boosted Scald from Politoed, and cannot take Hydro Pumps, or even Hurricane from Tornadus-T. Not to mention that SpD Hippowdon doesn't even have the same offensive presence that Tyranitar has, and has a worse matchup against even Terrakion (which can 2HKO with Band sets, for example, so Hippowdon cannot switch-in, unlike would happen if it was a physically defensive variant).
Again, as I said, pairing Tyranitar with Balloon Heatran and a Water resist like Specs/Scarf Keldeo or bulky Rotom-H (I prefer the latter, as it can tank some Hurricanes from Tornadus-T) easily helps in winning weather wars, as much as if you was using Hippowdon.
Tyranitar is an interesting one. Unlike Politoed and Ninetales, it has a ton more roles than just setting up weather and spamming powerful attacks. From setting up Stealth Rock to Pursuit trapping threats, it has a lot going for it. Plus, a team with the dinosaur doesn't have to be a "sand team" per se. It just benefits from TTar. One example is a team based around CM Keldeo where the main threats are Lati@s, Celebi, and Jellicent, which TTar can take out relatively easily. Anyway, one of my favorite sets to use currently is this:
Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam
It's a bit different from the common SDefensive set--but for a good reason. The EVs + item allow it to always live a 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat and OHKO back with Superpower. Ice Beam is to take out unsuspecting Sheer Force Landorus trying to Focus Blast. And of course the staples, Pursuit and Stealth Rock, give it that classic TTar touch. It's very specific to team needs, but it's nice to have that extra insurance against Landorus and Terrakion, along with other random things like Gengar and Dragonite.
I wonder if the possible banning of Keldeo and Tornadus-T will decrease/increase TTar's usage. On one hand, you have a solid Pursuit trapper to take care of Keldeo's checks. Does banning Keldeo reduce usage of its best partner? On the other hand, rain's usage will probably decline. Does that make sand's usage increase? I'm curious.
It's a bit different from the common SDefensive set--but for a good reason. The EVs + item allow it to always live a 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat and OHKO back with Superpower. Ice Beam is to take out unsuspecting Sheer Force Landorus trying to Focus Blast
Just saying, Ice Punch damages more than Ice Beam.
Tyranitar shouldn't stay into Landorus-I period.
However, Ice Beam is good to deal with Landorus-T who is probably going to use SR on the predicted switch out. In that case Ice Beam is superior to Ice Punch, factoring Intimidate.
Oh well yeah, intimidate would really destroy Ice Punch, so yeah, I guess Ice Beam overall is better.
It's amazing how despite all this rain, fighting and steel types flooding OU, Tyranitar continues to be one of the most used pokemon. It's just that good. It can run many sets, (lost a game the other day for switching my Terrakion on T-tar using T-wave).I think the best set right now is the Choice Band set. Seriously I was surprised when I switched T-tar in on ScarfToed locked into Ice Beam and OHKO'd it when it tried to switch out with Pursuit and it can OHKO a lot of pokemon in one hit such as Jellicent, Blissey, Reuniclus, Venusaur, Ninetales (even burned) etc. The specially defensive set is also good as it's a good counter to Lati@s, Xatu, Heatran, Celebi, Espeon etc and can set up Stealth Rock pretty reliably. Has anyone tried a physically defensive T-tar? I tried one ages ago because I was bored and actually had some success with it I had it running Ice Beam, Earthquake, Pursuit, Fire Blast with Expert Belt. Man it took hits like a champ like tanking a Bullet Punch from a +2 Adamant Life Orb Technician Scizor and than knocking out Scizor with Fire Blast. It also sponged Earthquakes from Donphan while T-tar 2HKO'd with Ice Beam.
If tornadus-T gets banned I wonder if DD-tar will return. Dude is easy to revenge kill but so are all the other dragon dancers (dragonite to a lesser extent). However he has tons and tons of opportunities to set up.
Sounds interesting...Once i also tried to use that but i never did :] The problem right here is that the metagame of these days is infested by Terrakions, Brelooms, Tornaduss, and other stuff with fighting attacks.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Tyranitar (+Def) : 130.69% - 154.46%
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Tyranitar (+Def) : 95.05% - 111.39%
62.5% chance to OHKO
HP/252 Def Tyranitar (+Def) : 92.08% - 109.9%
56.25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs 252 HP/252 Def Tyranitar (+Def) : 75.25% - 88.12%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
I wouldn't use Dragon Dance Tyranitar in the current metagame for these reasons:
1) Tyranitar is very slow and after one Dragon Dance it can be revenge-killed by a lots of pokèmon like Choice Scarf Terrakion, Choice Scarf Keldeo and so on without any problem.
2) It's also weak to the most common priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch (and it's so easy to find them against).