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Pokemon of the Week #7 Dragonite

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Superpowerdude, Oct 7, 2012.

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  1. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Hi! As you can tell by the title, I am hosting the "Pokemon of the Week" for OU. You may have seen the UU, RU and NU varaints of this project. The aim of this project is to help newer OU players recognize viable Pokemon and sets, in order to aid them when team building. This is done by exploring and discussing a new OU Pokemon each week. If you are unsure what to discuss, here are some good guidelines;

    • The Pokemon's place in the metagame
    • Some viable sets of the Pokemon. Creative sets are highly encouraged, but no gimmicks please.
    • Share your experiences with the Pokemon
    The first Pokemon of the week is......

    [​IMG]
    Breloom
    Type: Grass / Fighting
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 70 Spe
    Abilities: Effect Spore / Poison Heal / Technician

    Notable Moves:
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    - Swords Dance
    - Low Sweep
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Leech Seed
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up

    Even before BW2, Breloom was a good offensive Pokemon, and arguably one of the most annoying Pokemon in OU history. The combination of his great typing, massive attack, and access to the epic Spore is the reason why players used him. With BW2 giving it Technician, Breloom is even deadlier, with players now having to deal with Choice Band and Swords Dance sets.
  2. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Ah, Breelom. Such an annoying, powerful, annoying, versatile and annoying Pokemon.

    SD Techniloom is really powerful, imo, but it seems everyone has forgotten about this little wonder.

    [​IMG]
    Breelom @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Heal
    12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Spore
    ~ Focus Punch
    ~ Stone Edge

    SD Techniloom has to play mindgames with Spore - will thy foe send in a random, weakened mon to take the spore? Or will he send in the counter first? With SubPunchLoom, you get to sub on the switch, pretty much removing the need for prediction. If he brings in a spore sacrifice, too bad, you're behind a sub and ready to use Focus Punch. If he brings in a counter, too bad, you're behind a sub and ready to put it to sleep. Not packing Seed Bomb may be weird, but Breelom's main switch-ins are going to be flying types that resist FocusPunch, and Stone Edge hits those super effectively.
  3. Zarco

    Zarco

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    I'm still a huge fan of the Bulk Up set. You can threaten a huge chunk of rain Pokemon (rain stall especially) and put huge dents in sand teams as well. Spore is a huge asset, and poison heal+drain punch actually makes it BULKY. I know, right? It pairs surprisingly amazingly with SubCM Raikou.
  4. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    To be honest, I never loved too much the BU set, that could be crippled beyond repair with careful switching around and maybe a status absorber; however, with BW2 Technician came and that was a huge blessing for our favourite mushroom. Okay, the SD set is uninventive and used everywhere, but still remains the most effective IMHO. CSC is right when he says that you need to gamble a bit; however, other Breloom sets like SubPunch (which I like too, but that's another story) have much more surefire checks / counters since they lack the raw power Technician gives (for example Gliscor, that can take Seed Bombs all day and cannot be slept, but is murdered from +2 Bullet Seed), and may even be a liability other than an asset for the team (imagine Gengar switching in on Substitute, then Substituting itself, and start trolling you with Disable...). Also, Choiced sets are now much more viable with Technician thanks to the awesome side effects of Low Sweep and Force Palm, that can incapacitate the switch in and keep pounding on him. Of course, Poison Heal Breloom is still viable, but it's not as good as it used to be in my opinion; it still have a niche as a surprise set, or a physical attacker that can safely absorb Scald, but I find myself using it very rarely, and never with awesome results.
  5. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    [​IMG]

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Low Sweep
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch

    This is by far my favourite Breloom set in this metagame. It requires prediction to bring in safely, but once it's in it can create enormous offensive pressure on the opponent. Although it lacks the raw power of the SD set, what it does offer is the ability to gain momentum. Many of Breloom's usual switch-ins, such as Tornadus-T and Lati@s, cannot deal with the speed drop from Low Sweep. With Jolly nature, you essentially have 393 speed after hitting something with Low Sweep. Bullet Seed will hit even resists hard if it hits 4/5 times.

    I'm not sold on the choice sets to be honest, as Breloom is mostly outclassed when it comes to pure attacking power by Terrakion. Spore should be mandatory on all Breloom sets imo; without it, you're missing out on one of its biggest niches.
  6. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Have you all forgotten about the Low Sweep set? No need to predict with that, just switch in breloom on something that can't touch it, Low Sweep and decide to Spore or attack again. Destroys a significant amount of sleep fodder material We haven't "forgotten" about SubPunch, it's just to start with, as much as I want to try using it again i'm usually like "damn Techloom would have 6-0ed this guy by now."

    EDIT: Wow what he said.

    Breloom is a top tier offensive Pokemon in BW OU2, top 7-10 at least.
  7. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    Choiced sets can run Spore too; it's a bit weird but can catch your opponent off guard and completely mess with its game plan when it proceeds to send in its wall after having found out that you're choiced just to get hit by Spore. I recently lost a game to a similar set, although in different circumstances, since I didn't expected that at all...
  8. Frozen UK

    Frozen UK

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    With Tech loom coming out Sub punch Loom always seems to get a kill or do a good amount of damage from what I've noticed. Always excepting SD Mach.

    I agree with DarkBlazer, that is my favourite set too, being able to 2hko Torn-T after rocks With Low sweep and out speeding many faster pokemon and being able to KO with Bullet/Low sweep, if you can't you can just spore them instead.
  9. StairFall

    StairFall

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    I found techniloom to be a large let down actually. Poison heal simply provides too much for breloom for the sake of getting a powered up mach punch and bullet seed. it makes him a great wall breaker along SD and spore but poison heal already breaks walls fairly well. I use the sub seed variant of breloom, along side poison heal's huge recovery, protection from status (getting burned with techniloom is no fun) and absolutely huge damage output it is far more sustainable and helpful.
  10. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    I agree wholeheartedly with DarkBlazer. The SD set is great, but the utility that Low Sweep provides is amazing. You're able to 2hko Tornadus-T after rocks with Low Sweep, who should be a great check to breloom. A lot of tornadus-T are beginning to run Sleep Talk to better deal with spore, but that's not going to help when it's being 2hko'd by low sweep.

    With Spore you can essentially take out a pokemon from the game. Often times, against offensive teams they will just let their sleeping pokemon stay asleep, seeing as how it's going to be difficult for breloom to use spore twice.

    The SD set is great against defensive oriented teams, but I don't believe the extra turn to set up that SD is really necessary.

    the Bulk Up set used to be very good with BW1 Voltturn running around. But with Genesect and Tornadus-T's popularity, it's just not as effective as it used to be.
  11. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    have not gotten an opportunity to actually use techniloom yet, not much i can say there. defensively speaking, breloom has the ability (poison heal is just superb) and it has the typing (edgequake/water/electric resist is awesome), but the movepool is only so-so from a stall standpoint (spore and leech seed are the only things that stand out, and the 4mss is crazy if you run them both), and the stats are atrocious (breloom has like only ONE usable stat, which is its attack). tough to use it in that way, if at all.

    i spent a long long time theorizing about the bulk up set because i wanted it to work on my stall team, but every time i try to use it, it just does not pan out. it shines against precisely one type of team: rain stall (and that's assuming the bulky waters aren't carrying ice beam or roar x_x), since it can set up on any mono-attacking bulky water (eat scald and volt switch for breakfast) and can also set up all day long on ferrothorn. in theory it should do fine against most such mons. but it really doesn't have the room to be effective right now - it's way too easy to check (slow as shit, and no mach punch), and it's too difficult to get set up unless your opp makes a mistake. i hate ferrothorn's guts so for a while i was running it anyway, but i only ever got set up once, which was when my opponent made a mistake and tried to beat me up with an ice fang/eq uninvested gliscor - instead i bulked up and got enough boosts that he could no longer switch in on me. but that was once. ONCE.

    i have not gotten the opportunity to test substitute loom (probably a specially defensive subpunch is what i'd end up running) but in theory it should fare better right now - if you do manage to force a switch, sub at least lets you deal a hit before you get forced out, and substitute is always useful for mons that are easily checked. where as if you bulked up on the switch instead, chances are your opponent just went into a faster mon and is about to fire blast your ass.
  12. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    Breloom is quite an interesting Pokemon, being one of the few viable users of a Sleep inducing move in OU. Combine that with the fact Breloom gets access to Swords Dance means Breloom is guaranteed one Swords Dance after it puts something to sleep. Having priority in your arsenal is also a good addition to, because against a Sleeping target and with priority, you can set up easily while not having to be particularly fast to sweep either.

    I think the Fighting Gem set deserves some attention too. It's great at nabbing that extra KO you wouldn't have before hand, and also good at bluffing a Choice Item which can lead your opponent to switch into something only for you to switch up moves. At +2, you get notable KOs on a lot of stuff, such as Max HP Rotom-W, Choice Scarf / Specs Politoed and Genesect, which is important because all of these have the potential to stop a Breloom sweep.
  13. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    Yeah Bulk Up isn't that great it was cool when everybody played volt-turn, because it worked well against those teams but sucked against pretty much everything else, but now Volt-Turn isn't that common anymore and even if it would be new things like the Tornadus-T and Genesect laugh at it anyways.

    My favorite Breloom set now is the offensive set DarkBlazer posted. Almost nothing can safely switch-in and the few things that can get neutered by Spore. Low Sweep is a ridiculously good on Breloom and allows it to beat a lot of the counters of the SD set. I don't think CB is that good sure it hits a little harder but the ability to change the moves is invaluable on Breloom simply because of Spore and the HP loss isn't that bad as Breloom can't really take a hit anyway. Brelooms non existant bulk is imo the worst thing about it switching in is very difficult since even resisted attacks usually do over 50% and coupled with the fact that it is susceptible to all hazards you will often only be able to switch in after something got KO'd.

    I never really liked the SubPunch set, because it was almost impossible to set-up once sleep clause was into effect. Everything not weak to Seed Bomb can simply attack it to break its Subs and prevent it from using Focus Punch, however i rarely used it so maybe i was just bad at using it and one could argue that it already had done its job when it was sent in for the first time.
  14. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    While resisting EdgeQuake, Water and Electric is amazing, I found Breloom most of time to be too frail to take even resisted attacks. Special versions of Landorus can 2HKO with Earth Power, physical versions with Life Orb can also do the same in sandstorm with Earthquake, and although Tyranitar cannot even think of taking Breloom one-on-one, Choice Band versions do about 62%-74% with Stone Edge. Keldeo always 2HKOes with Surf outside rain, and in fact, any rain-boosted Water-type attack can severely dent, if not OHKO Breloom. As for Electric-type attacks, Scarf Thundurus-T Thunder can 2HKO Breloom and Thunderbolt has 21% chance to also 2HKO.

    Breloom is actually too frail to exploit its great resistances without defensive investiment, and with reliance on Life Orb to power up its attacks, I am having some difficulty to fit him on my team. I am using Fist Plate as the recoil of Life Orb and sandstorm damage would be too suicidal, it's a shame that Breloom can't use Drain Punch (or Horn Leech!) or reliable recovery to mitigate this.

    Even so, I tried to use the Low Sweep version, and it is a great utility pokémon. Can support the team with Spore and Low Sweep, can revenge kill with Mach Punch, can be a great attacker by itself, it has the feat of 2HKOing Tornadus-T with the apropriate moves! As someone said above. But I remember of doing this differently. When Tornadus-T switched, it was hit by Low Sweep, wich made him slower than Breloom. Then I used Spore and Bullet Seedeed Tornadus-T to death. When Bullet Seed hits Tornadus-T at least 4 times, it only needs to hit 3 more times to 2HKO. Even so, I admit that simply 2HKOing with Low Sweep after SR is more reliable, but in either situation, I wouldn't recommend to use Breloom to take on Tornadus-T unless you have no other choice. But after this battle I nicknamed my Breloom as "Tornadus-T killer"
  15. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    I've tried this one, except with Rock Tomb instead of Low Sweep

    Main problem - 80% accuraccy.

    Added benefits: shits on Dragonite aiming to set up after sleep clause and Volcarona trying to abuse Flame Body that try to switch in, greater coverage, Landorus that switch in are KOed by Rock Tomb + Bullet Seed (even with 2 hits, no need for SR).

    It also
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Lol it seems that everyone agrees with DarkBlazer.

    3 attacks + Spore is definitely Breloom's best set right now! After crippling one poke with Spore, you just have so many options. The opponent has Tornadus-T? 2HKO with Bullet Seed and Mach Punch after SR. Latios comes in? No problem 2hko with Low Sweep. You also have that veeeery sweet Mach Punch to revenge kill the shit out of everything.

    Finally one of the main selling points of Low Sweep, that many people seem to forget is that it prevents the boost of Speed from set-up sweepers, so even after Spore is activated you have no risk of getting sweped as long as you sac Breloom. Volcarona, Salamence and Dragonite want to set-up against your Breloom, after Sleep Clause has been activated? Well they can't boost their speed so no matter what your offensive team will be able to easily revenge kill them. This is very important for HO team, which rarely have answers for boosting sweepers, so a poke that never gives set-up opportunities is a godsend.
  17. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    I'm reluctant on using Rock Tomb instead of Low Sweep. Other than the 80% accuracy, there are other problems; even with Technician, Rock Tomb is not more powerful than Stone Edge, and even when gaining greater coverage, you miss out a lot of power provided by Low Sweep. Rock Tomb is a very appealing option, but after learning of the disadvantages, I don't know if using it would be a good idea. I will try using Rock Tomb and see if it's worst, equal or better than Low Sweep.
  18. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    Oh, Low Sweep is usually the superior option due to being STAB+ having a higher accuraccy, but Rock Tomb is a great surprise for pokes that the opponent thinks can resist your other moves (bugs and flying pokes mainly) so Rock Tomb smashes those.
  19. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    oh smogon, why can't you understand a good set when it's right in front of your face...

    [​IMG]
    Breloom (M) @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 68 HP / 224 Atk / 212 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Seed
    - Mach Punch

    ok hello, this right here is the best breloom set, fight gem is far superior to life orb for so many reasons, most notably of which is the massive damage it does to stuff that likes to switch into it. for example,

    224 +2 Atk Fighting Gem Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Latios: 63.46% - 74.75%

    latios being the favored switch-in to breloom after it spores something, assuming it goes for the SD on the switch, meaning all you really have to do is make latios take a couple layers of rocks, after that it's gg assuming your opponent doesn't have a secondary breloom check, and even if he does you've still done some serious work to his team. 1 pokemon asleep, another one dead, a third probably taking some mach punch damage. evs let loom live a life orb icy wind from keldeo, as well as jolly terrakion's close combat. kickass spread if i do say so myself, thanks to princess bri for it.

    give fighting gem a shot, it's better than life orb because it nets that one kill that's always inhibiting breloom from sweeping.
  20. Frozen UK

    Frozen UK

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    "fight gem is far superior to mach punch" I think you mean Life orb here :)

    Also could you give some more examples of what the extra bulk help with, Looks interesting. I would give it 24 EV's in Speed though, to out speed defensive politoed. 24 because I like to speed creep.
  21. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah thanks for catching that typo, fixed it

    as for the extra bulk, like i said it's mainly for surviving the two attacks i mentioned, terrakion cc and lo keldeo icy wind, but also LOOK WHAT I FOUND

    252 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam vs 68 HP/212 SpDef Breloom: 79.86% - 94.24%

    yeah genesect gets an attack boost switching in because of the evs, and if it goes for ice beam/flamethrower it's 100% not going to kill you due to that big bulk. actually saved me yesterday in a tournament match, didn't even know it. strong bulk is strong.
  22. Celever

    Celever

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    My [​IMG] move-set will no doubt surprise but... voila!
    Breloom@Expert belt
    Ability: Technician
    Moves:
    Mach punch
    Low sweep
    Iron tail
    Stone edge

    No doubt I use mach punch the most, but hey!

    Pocket EDIT: Please elaborate further about your move / item choices
  23. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Why irontail? Why not spore, or Bullet Seed, as Iron Tail is just an aweful move that provides no useful coverage
  24. StairFall

    StairFall

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    What does iron tail hit that your fighting type stab doesn't? Even neutrally stone edge has better accuracy and hits the flying and bug types that resist you super effectively.
  25. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Yeah what the hell is this...there's a reason nobody uses Iron Tail, at all, ever, and that reason is because it's a horrible move in general. You don't even gain any coverage with your current moveset, as Steel is only super-effective against Rock types, and Mach Punch/Low Sweep has that covered. By all means, run either Bullet Seed or Spore in that slot. And I don't see what Expert Belt really does for you...what are you trying to hit that Life Orb doesn't accomplish better, or Fighting Gem for that matter? Tornadus-T on the switch? Ok, that's one Pokemon. Sorry, but I'll stick to my SD set.
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