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Alright, I've been meaning to rant about Mega Garchomp SOMEWHERE, but I've never really gotten the chance. This'll be a long post since I have a lot to say, so put in some music or something if you don't want to get really bored.
Simply put, Mega Garchomp is a vastly underrated threat in OU right now. When people look at Mega Garchomp, what do they usually notice first? The Speed drop and opportunity cost right? Alright. First of all. Mega Garchomp is not meant to be a sweeper. There are Pokemon that do this job better. Mega Garchomp is supposed to be a terrifying wall breaker for Sand teams. Mega Garchomp has plenty of Speed for the role it preforms. It outspeeds all relevant walls. By the way, Clefable does not wall it, expecially under Sand. For Unaware Clefable, it 2HKOs without Sand with a small bit of prior damage while avoiding the OHKO from Moonblast in return, and under Sand, well let's just say, no prior damage is needed. For Magic Guard, +2 Earthquake obliterates it.
4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sand: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
People often compare Garchomp to Kyurem-B. Yes, there is a little bit to compare here, but Kyurem has a god-awful typing, a weakness to Stealth Rocks, misses out on Swords Dance, and doesn't have Fire Blast or Earthquake (it has Earth Power, but it isn't STAB and doesn't come off of its Attack stat.) Garchomp sadly takes up your Mega Slot, but I think the advantages it has over Kyurem well warrant its use.
Garchomp is literally walled by nothing. Clefable? Earthquake 2HKOs. Ferrothorn? Skarmory? Fire Blast exists. Gliscor? Draco Meteor. People also look over the huge boost in bulk it gains upon Mega Evolving. I mean, it has no recovery, but it still takes hits pretty well for a wall breaker.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 312-367 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 189-223 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 318-374 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 157-186 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
Tl;dr: Mega Garchomp is not a sweeper. It's a wall breaker and doesn't need the Speed. Yes, it uses up your Mega Slot, but it has huge advantages over other Pokemon that give you a real reason to use it.
252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 127-151 (35.8 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If it's Adamant 252 attack it's walled by other mons. That's still just one pokemon
252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 127-151 (35.8 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If it's Adamant 252 attack it's walled by other mons. That's still just one pokemon
Well, considering that Mega Garchomp is almost always going to be in sand when you bring it out:
4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria in Sand: 166-196 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Alright, I've been meaning to rant about Mega Garchomp SOMEWHERE, but I've never really gotten the chance. This'll be a long post since I have a lot to say, so put in some music or something if you don't want to get really bored.
Simply put, Mega Garchomp is a vastly underrated threat in OU right now. When people look at Mega Garchomp, what do they usually notice first? The Speed drop and opportunity cost right? Alright. First of all. Mega Garchomp is not meant to be a sweeper. There are Pokemon that do this job better. Mega Garchomp is supposed to be a terrifying wall breaker for Sand teams. Mega Garchomp has plenty of Speed for the role it preforms. It outspeeds all relevant walls. By the way, Clefable does not wall it, expecially under Sand. For Unaware Clefable, it 2HKOs without Sand with a small bit of prior damage while avoiding the OHKO from Moonblast in return, and under Sand, well let's just say, no prior damage is needed. For Magic Guard, +2 Earthquake obliterates it.
4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sand: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
People often compare Garchomp to Kyurem-B. Yes, there is a little bit to compare here, but Kyurem has a god-awful typing, a weakness to Stealth Rocks, misses out on Swords Dance, and doesn't have Fire Blast or Earthquake (it has Earth Power, but it isn't STAB and doesn't come off of its Attack stat.) Garchomp sadly takes up your Mega Slot, but I think the advantages it has over Kyurem well warrant its use.
Garchomp is literally walled by nothing. Clefable? Earthquake 2HKOs. Ferrothorn? Skarmory? Fire Blast exists. Gliscor? Draco Meteor. People also look over the huge boost in bulk it gains upon Mega Evolving. I mean, it has no recovery, but it still takes hits pretty well for a wall breaker.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 312-367 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 189-223 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 318-374 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 157-186 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
Tl;dr: Mega Garchomp is not a sweeper. It's a wall breaker and doesn't need the Speed. Yes, it uses up your Mega Slot, but it has huge advantages over other Pokemon that give you a real reason to use it.
I will add more to this post later.
Also lol at Jernmax's post because
+2 4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria in Sand: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Garchomp outspeeds bulky Alt, and if it comes in on a Swords Dance, it's screwed.
I though we were talking about the four attack set lol. If you're using SD you lose out on something so you're still countered by something. I lol at your post.
Full physical Bulky SD set can achieve the "uncounterable" status and is harder to play around due to lack of stats drops from Draco. Something like SD,EQ,DClaw,Fire Fang/Stone Edge(If you think Togekiss is relevant enough) in sand OHKOS nearly everything after an SD and things like Gliscor/Land-T which requires a 2HKO can't do much back. The draw of this set is that, it trades the ability to immediately score a KO on Skarmory in order to prevent certain walls to play around it using Draco Drops or stalling Sand turns. JS SDef Gliscor easily walls MixedMega Chomp but loses to the SD variant. I guess Toxic puts you on a timer but most Sdef Gliscors are SD Knock Off ones. It also allows you to invest more in bulk, surviving non-STABed Ice attacks from Mega Lop, Thund etc. tbh as a wall breaker, Mega Chomp's biggest advantage over things like KyuB is it's match up vs Offense. The added bulk lets it tank hits like LO Thund's HP Ice and makes it much harder to one-shot using a faster mon in general(almost nothing outside of Lati@s's Draco and opposing Chomp's outrage). So it offers you a 1 for 1 trade off+switch advantage at the very least and arguably wall breaks much better.
Mega Garchomp is fortunate in that it is powerful enough to function without Sand. But what's nice is that makes it a boon against opposing teams with common Tyranitar/Excadrill cores. Garchomp bones both with EQ, and even has Fire Blast if Excadrill has Air Balloon. This makes it a pretty legitimate independent wall breaker that doesn't need much team support considering the SR resistance, raw bulk and power. Bulky enough to benefit from Wish/Healing Wish in fact. It's also a very nice switch into Knock Off considering you'll take little damage and the opponent takes Rough Skin damage, making it an ideal switch into Bisharp or Landorus-T.
Alright going to see if I can make garchomp a bit bulkier by having it has 248 hp/8 att/200 def/52 sp att
Difference is increased physical bulk lower sp attack. Going to see how it goes soon.
I though we were talking about the four attack set lol. If you're using SD you lose out on something so you're still countered by something. I lol at your post.
SD Mega Garchomp isn't it's best set, the 4 attacks set sand wallbreaker is. Mega Garchomp should only be used on sand teams, as without sand, it's a lot easier to wall, and it loses it's niche. Mega Garchomp is also insanely bulky, and that calc doesn't really show anything when Mega Altaria can't even OHKO it back with Return.
I really think we should find the ideal spread, at least for bulky rest talk. Chomp is a great as a Rest talking Pivot with Dragon claw, as it hits hard and stomachs hits. What does it need to survive? In particular something it could stomach a few times to stall out with rest talk
You shouldn't run Dragon Claw on RestTalk Mega Garchomp, Dragon Tail is a better option. There's really no need to go with a fancy EV spread, a 252 HP 252 Special Defense set should suffice. Rest / Sleep Talk / Dragon Tail / Filler move such as Toxic or whatever should be the main moves. Could do well on a stall team with hazards stacking, as it's a super bulky phazer that's hard to wear down.
Ok, I really have no idea where you guys are coming up with the notion of "bulky mega chomp".
The main reason to use Mega Garchomp is for its incredible offensive stats and ability when paired with sand support. A defensive set is much more suited for regular Garchomp since it can abuse the nasty combo of Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet to give the middle finger to physical attackers that rely on contact moves.
firehusky, I was going to say this earlier, but I think I forgot about it or whatever, I really think that this week should be Garchomp as a whole (not just mega) since limiting the discussion to just Mega Garchomp isnt using the concept to the full potential. With that change, there would be quite a bit more to discuss about the Pokemon.
Ok, I really have no idea where you guys are coming up with the notion of "bulky mega chomp".
The main reason to use Mega Garchomp is for its incredible offensive stats and ability when paired with sand support. A defensive set is much more suited for regular Garchomp since it can abuse the nasty combo of Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet to give the middle finger to physical attackers that rely on contact moves.
firehusky, I was going to say this earlier, but I think I forgot about it or whatever, I really think that this week should be Garchomp as a whole (not just mega) since limiting the discussion to just Mega Garchomp isnt using the concept to the full potential. With that change, there would be quite a bit more to discuss about the Pokemon.
Incase you wanted to know who started the bulk thing. I did. really that's what mega chomp is best for. Because of loss of speed we need to focus on other priorities on him. He can take hits very well so let's make him a bit more bulky.
And we are not discussing regular chomp because this is mega chomps week. We never discussed on another pokemon during another's week. Besides we really mined him empty anyone just think of anything and bam good set.
Ok, I really have no idea where you guys are coming up with the notion of "bulky mega chomp".
The main reason to use Mega Garchomp is for its incredible offensive stats and ability when paired with sand support. A defensive set is much more suited for regular Garchomp since it can abuse the nasty combo of Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet to give the middle finger to physical attackers that rely on contact moves.
firehusky, I was going to say this earlier, but I think I forgot about it or whatever, I really think that this week should be Garchomp as a whole (not just mega) since limiting the discussion to just Mega Garchomp isnt using the concept to the full potential. With that change, there would be quite a bit more to discuss about the Pokemon.
Tbh, I'm not a really big fan of bulky Mega Garchomp, as it's kind of a waste of a mega, and if you're stall team needs a mega, slowbro and sableye are generally better options. However, there was actually an interesting RMT built around it: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stalls-is-so-cool-1-peaked-rank-1-in-every-sim.3513514/
The basic reasoning behind using Mega Garchomp on a stall team is because it has good synergy with skarmory, a common mon found on stall teams. Mega Garchomp is also a great knock off absorber thanks to it's great bulk and it's item can't be knocked off, and it's a solid check to SD bisharp, which is really scary to face with stall teams. Mega Garchomp also provides an electric immunity, so it's a full stop to volt turn teams, which is pretty much a must for stall teams. Mega Garchomp can also revenge kill BD azumarill, which is otherwise a huge threat to stall teams. Mega Garchomp also is a great answer to non dragon pulse zard y; chansey is usually stall's answer to zard y, but zard y is commonly paired with keldeo and a pursuit user such as CB ttar or bisharp, so chansey can often be removed via pursuit trapping, clearing a path for zard y.
Bulky Mega Garchomp arguably got worse in ORAS though. In XY, most stall teams used either zard x or mega venu as their stall megas, but ORAS introduced arguably the face of OU stall, and that would be mega sableye. tbh Mega Sableye is probably stall's best mega. Bulky mega garchomp is still quite interesting though. And PS, that RMT that I just linked was archived in the team showcase, which proves that the sleeping god (aka bulky mega garchomp) actually isn't as terrible as some people think.
And yeah, I'll make this week garchomp as a whole.
Incase you wanted to know who started the bulk thing. I did. really that's what mega chomp is best for. Because of loss of speed we need to focus on other priorities on him. He can take hits very well so let's make him a bit more bulky.
And we are not discussing regular chomp because this is mega chomps week. We never discussed on another pokemon during another's week. Besides we really mined him empty anyone just think of anything and bam good set.
umm, I run this thread, and I think I can make decisions for myself. bolts made a great suggestion, and actually garchomp mega and garchomp are the same pokemon; just different formes.
Well Garchomp, the normal form, is pretty much the most successful Stealth Rock lead right now. It can lead against pretty much anything without too much fear and sets up rocks quickly while still applying offensive pressure. Thanks to nice typing and bulk, it doesn't need to really hold a Focus Sash and so Lum Berry has become the norm to avoid Will-O-Wisps from Rotom-W and Mega Sableye and to make setting up Swords Dance more successful. The Tank set is pretty cool too as even if it ends up dying it usually deals a ton of damage to physical attackers, and it is actually pretty hard to OHKO.
Yeah Focus Sash isn't the best item for lead garchomp anymore, as then it can't break past mega sableye. Lum Berry + SD is better to break past sableye, or get up rocks. TFL posted this pretty cool rocky helmet + rough skin garchomp with endure, and it basically was guaranteed at least 50% against physical attackers.
I've posted something about Rocky Helmet Garchomp earlier today in another topic. I used the set (Rocks/EQ and 2 of: Fire Blast, Toxic, Protect, Dragon Tail and (like firehusky mentioned) Endure) at the beginning of ORAS. The metagame evolved once Greninja got banned and pokemon like Lopunny and Landorus-T became more common and Garchomp can easily get chip damage of on those. Though I have to say that now Rocky Helmet is over 50% in the usage statistics, it has become pretty predictable and once you know it's rocky helmet, it is not that hard to play around (except if you get caught by a surprise Endure) There is not really much to say about other sets, because Stealth Rock is the most common move after Earthquake, with 5/6 Garchomps running it. Mega-Garchomp, HP Ice Lure and Scarfchomp are other nice sets but Lead Garchomp is definitely the best set nowadays.
I played on pokebattle and there was this one guy who made the perfect Mega Garchomp set. I really don't remember the EVs besides it is not what The hound of dooms set
I do remeber a few things
It had impish nature
No attack EVs
Rest talk + Equake & Dragon tail
Avoided 2HKO by Talonflame
248 HP
It outspeeds Adamant Bisharp + speedcreep by 1 point. I would use 4 spe EVs more to outspeed Adamant Tyrantrum, 20 spe Zapdos and 20 Spe Tentacruel, which also are at 241 speed
It outspeeds Adamant Bisharp + speedcreep by 1 point. I would use 4 spe EVs more to outspeed Adamant Tyrantrum, 20 spe Zapdos and 20 Spe Tentacruel, which also are at 241 speed
It outspeeds Adamant Bisharp + speedcreep by 1 point. I would use 4 spe EVs more to outspeed Adamant Tyrantrum, 20 spe Zapdos and 20 Spe Tentacruel, which also are at 241 speed
Well, you don't really sacrifice any bulk by moving a few EVs into speed. It's not like Mega Garchomp can live any crucial OHKOs or 2HKOs with 1 extra point in defense.
Well, you don't really sacrifice any bulk by moving a few EVs into speed. It's not like Mega Garchomp can live any crucial OHKOs or 2HKOs with 1 extra point in defense.
Such as?
84 Defense isn't a lot, and putting that into speed is a lot more important imo, so you can outspeed Bisharp.
Unless you can post a specific calc where the extra 84 Defense matters, I still think that outspeed base 70s is more important.
It should be noted that Klefki is an amazing supportive partner for MegaChomp. Klefki resists or is immune to all of Chomp's weaknesses, isn't worn down by sand, slows things down with TWave and can set up Spikes to abuse the switches Chomp forces or screens to bolster Chomp's natural bulk, while Chomp resists Fire, has more than enough bulk to tank an Earthquake and smashes through annoying Magic Bouncers and most Pokemon that can't be paralysed.
(Actually, SharKey probably works with regular Chomp too, but MegaChomp appreciates the paralysis support more.)
Such as?
84 Defense isn't a lot, and putting that into speed is a lot more important imo, so you can outspeed Bisharp.
Unless you can post a specific calc where the extra 84 Defense matters, I still think that outspeed base 70s is more important.
There's definetely something it can take better with 84 defencw, common sense, but it doesn't really need to outspeed 70s. Breloom? Can do nothing
Bisharp? Sucker punch does more than Knock off anyways, so it'll always go for that. Never mind it doesn't 2hko at +2, I think. Personally i'd put it in defence or special defence
