Other Pokemon of the Week [Starmie]

[firehusky]

approved by alexwolf
OP stolen from boltsandbombers

Alright, I'm starting a Pokemon of the Week Project. For those of you who do not know what Pokemon of the Week typically is, we have one victim pokemon each week, and the goal of the thread is to spark discussion of pokemon one by one. Not only do we hope to bring some underrated sets and pokemon out into the exposure of the OU community, but we hope to bolster discussion of well established threats at the same time. I will post every Monday, and essentially we eventually seek to make this a good resource for new players to refer to in order to look at how certain pokemon fair in the current metagame, and create serious discussion amongst ourselves!

What Topics Do We Talk About?​

In general, some topics that I hope will be discussed are:

1. • The Pokemon of the Week's current role in the OU metagame, and the niches that it fulfills.
   • What sets the Pokemon of the Week has that are most viable or popular in the current state of the metagame.
   • Underrated or underused sets on the Pokemon of the Week, which are still viable.
   • How the Pokemon of the Week is fares against other Pokemon in the tier.
   • What advantages and disadvantages it has compared to Pokemon of the Week with a similar niche.
   • What Pokemon are able to check, counter, threaten, or stop the Pokemon of the Week.
   • What Pokemon does the Pokemon of the Week check, counter, threaten, or stop.
   • What Pokemon make for good teammates for the Pokemon of the Week.
   • How the Pokemon of the Week should be played.
   • To what extent does the Pokemon of the Week influence the current metagame.
   • What misconceptions people often have about the Pokemon of the Week.

What Are the Goals of This Thread?​

1. • Spark deep analysis of a Pokemon to fully explain how it functions, what sets it can run, its viability in the tier, etc.
   • Generate more exposure to Pokemon or sets not commonly seen in the current metagame.
   • Develop a resource which newcomers can reference in order to gain knowledge and understanding of OU.
   • Little side note, try and keep away from one-liner posts :]

[Pokemon of the Week Archive]
Week 1 - Heatran
Week 2 - Gengar
Week 3 - Mega Absol
Week 4 - Landorus
Week 5 - Greninja (RIP)
Week 6 - Mega Metagross
Week 7 - Mega Scizor
Week 8 - Mega Sableye
Week 9 - Talonflame
Week 10 - Mega Altaria
Week 11 - Chesnaught
Week 12 - Keldeo
Week 13 - Charizard
Week 14 - Celebi
Week 15 - Manaphy
Week 16 - Mega Diancie
Week 17 - (Mega) Garchomp
Week 18 - Tornadus-Therian
Week 19 - Tyranitar
Week 20 - Mamoswine
Week 21 - (Mega) Alakazam
Week 22 - Skarmory
Week 23 - Starmie​

 

[firehusky]

Today is an exception, most of the time I will be posting on Monday, but I want to get this going, so I'll be posting today :]

Greninja
Base Stats: 72 HP / 95 Atk / 67 Def / 103 SAtk / 71 SDef / 122 Spd
Abilities: Protean / Torrent
​

Alright, this week's victim will be Greninja (suggested by Recreant), arguably one of the best pokemon in OU currently! With the interesting ability Protean, all of it's moves get STAB, allowing it to hit decently hard coupled with life orb. It also has a great speed tier, allowing it work as a late game cleaner, or a hit and run attacker. Greninja also has a great movepool, with access to moves such as spikes, ice beam, grass knot, extrasensory, gunk shot and low kick. However, greninja is not without it's flaws! It is very frail, and can be worn down very quickly by hazards and life orb. Let's discuss!

 

[heritage]

Let's just say, for simplicity's sake, if a Pokémon is weak to one of Greninja's moves, and it doesn't outspeed, they're dead, the end.
Greninja is by far the most versatile Pokémon in OU, being able to run every set efficiently. (Except Physcial Greninja. Don't use Physical Greninja.) With the addition of Gunk shot and Low Kick, nothing has a safe switch in. Greninja has great offensive stats and Speed. There are very few things that even come close to outspeeding. Even certain Scarf Pokémon like Magnezone don't outspeed. It's an extremely hard Pokémon to handle and it's by far the single hardest Pokémon in OU to wall. It's easy to mend into whatever your team needs, whether it be a Fairy type check with Gunk Shot or an all out special attacker. However, saying this, Greninja has pretty bad four slot move syndrome. After you see two of its moves, it's pretty easy to be able to guess the other two, but that's the only flaw with its movepool.

Good luck to firehusky on the OP.

EDIT: Sthap calling me Ohio guys I changed my name for a reason rip

 

[firehusky]

K, so since no one seems to want to discuss greninja, I think I'll post the greninja set that I use the most in ORAS:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Fire] / Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Dark Pulse

Hydro Pump hits things like heatran and tyranitar, while HP fire can also be used for scizor, skarmory and ferrothorn. Low kick deals heavy damage to tyranitar, but is not as consistent, due to relying on the weight of the opposing pokemon. Ice is one of the best offensive types, so ice beam is the second slot, to hurt mons that are 4x weak to it, such as garchomp, dragonite, and gliscor. Greninja received a new move in ORAS - gunk shot. This allows it to deal with lots of would be counters, such as azumarill, clefable and sylveon. Dark Pulse is more relevant now that more threats are on the rise, such as mega metagross. Dark Pulse still retains good coverage with the other 3 moves, and hits the rare Jirachi super effectively.
All in all, greninja is a very versatile pokemon, and can customize it's coverage to the team's needs. One of the best pokemon in the ORAS metagame currently, and a great fit on most HO teams.

EDIT: Thanks Ohio Recreant :]

 

[boltsandbombers]

Simply put, I feel the main reason why greninja is so good is because that while it has a moveset that is somewhat standard, you can tailor its moves to fit your team. Ice Beam and Gunk Shot are pretty much necessary for the most part, and in this metagame hydro pump isn't needed as all of its targets are hit harder by Low Kick (Heatran, Tyranitar, Magnezone, etc). Dark Pulse is generally one of the best coverage options to use, as it smacks the common bulky psychic types, such as Slowbro, Cresselia, and Jirachi, as well as Gengar. However, if your team struggles with Tentacruel or mega Venusaur, slap on extrasensory. If you don't want to be setup bait for mega gyarados, toss on grass knot or HP Grass which 2HKOs most Rotom-W. HP Fire is also a great option if your team struggles to break through mega scizor and ferrothorn. U-turn isn't terrible as it gains helpful momentum off of the numerous switches that ninja forces.
Overall, Greninja is one of the most meta-defining and threatening Pokemon in OU.

 

[Mur]

Greninja is by far the biggest threat in ou atm. It's insane movepool coupled with a superb speed tier make it arguably one of the best(if not the best) revenge killers in the tier. The way brokeninja runs the tier is borderline overcentralizing as mons such as p2 tentacruel and empoleon have shot up in viability just to "counter" this thing. Which leads me to another positive greninja has going for it is that there is almost zero switching to this monster as only p2 and under certain circumstances chansey can truly counter it without having to worry about being crushed by a coverage move examples being tent with extrasensory and empoleon with low kick. All in all Gren is truly a force to be reckoned with and I'm interested to see what others have to point out about it.

 

[firehusky]

Loving the discussion so far, thanks everyone for the detailed and interesting posts!
Any thoughts on a spikes set? I haven't really used spiker greninja a lot, but I think a sash lead greninja with double spikes (toxic and normal spikes) could be pretty interesting. Also, if running spikes, what would be the best coverage for the last 3 moves? Running spikes limits you to only 3 attacking moveslots, so you really have to pick and choose what you want to hit. I think ice beam, gunk shot and dark pulse would give you the best neutral coverage, but again, I'm not sure. Forgot to mention this, but one of the problems with greninja is it's EXTREME 4MSS. I basically chooses what it wants to hit, and what it wants to be walled by. It can be pretty tricky figuring out it's set (lost countless games due to switching in my ferrothorn on greninja, and then getting nailed by HP fire), and by then, you could have lost multiple members on your team.

 

[MilkyWay]

K, so since no one seems to want to discuss greninja, I think I'll post the greninja set that I use the most in ORAS:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Fire] / Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Dark Pulse

Hydro Pump hits things like heatran and tyranitar, while HP fire can also be used for scizor, skarmory and ferrothorn. Low kick deals heavy damage to tyranitar, but is not as consistent, due to relying on the weight of the opposing pokemon. Ice is one of the best offensive types, so ice beam is the second slot, to hurt mons that are 4x weak to it, such as garchomp, dragonite, and gliscor. Greninja received a new move in ORAS - gunk shot. This allows it to deal with lots of would be counters, such as azumarill, clefable and sylveon. Dark Pulse is more relevant now that more threats are on the rise, such as mega metagross. Dark Pulse still retains good coverage with the other 3 moves, and hits the rare Jirachi super effectively.
All in all, greninja is a very versatile pokemon, and can customize it's coverage to the team's needs. One of the best pokemon in the ORAS metagame currently, and a great fit on most HO teams.

EDIT: Thanks Ohio Recreant :]

Agreeing with boltsandbombers post above. Also, im pretty sure Greninja runs 40atk evs to ensure a OHKO on Clefable or Azumarill. So that would leave it with 216sp atk evs. Other than that I agree with your set because you said most common and from what ive seen hydro pump is used more than low kick. As for Greninja's best set I dont really think there is one as long as it uses its most viable moves (hydro pump, ice beam, low kick, gunk shot, dark pulse, spikes, u-turn, hp fire, hp ice, grass knot, extrasensory) in some combination that is tailored towards its team.

alexwolf EDIT: PM the OU Council for potential suspects.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Loving the discussion so far, thanks everyone for the detailed and interesting posts!
Any thoughts on a spikes set? I haven't really used spiker greninja a lot, but I think a sash lead greninja with double spikes (toxic and normal spikes) could be pretty interesting. Also, if running spikes, what would be the best coverage for the last 3 moves? Running spikes limits you to only 3 attacking moveslots, so you really have to pick and choose what you want to hit. I think ice beam, gunk shot and dark pulse would give you the best neutral coverage, but again, I'm not sure. Forgot to mention this, but one of the problems with greninja is it's EXTREME 4MSS. I basically chooses what it wants to hit, and what it wants to be walled by. It can be pretty tricky figuring out it's set (lost countless games due to switching in my ferrothorn on greninja, and then getting nailed by HP fire), and by then, you could have lost multiple members on your team.

Ok, this is one of the biggest misconceptions about 4MSS. Basically it does not apply to greninja because it still hits so many relevant threats with any 4 moves, and any others are just for specific Pokemon. For more detail, read this post by AM, who did a great job explaining this point.
Also, I do not think that spikes greninja is as viable in ORAS, as having 4 coverage moves is almost a necessity.

 

[firehusky]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 40 attack EVs ensures an OHKO on stanard AV Azu with gunk shot, but I don't think it matters too much, since 4 attack still OHKOes after rocks iirc.
btw, you posted the viable moves for greninja, but you mentioned ice beam and HP ice lol

EDIT: Well technically greninja does have 4MSS, because it wishes it could have more moveslots, but I do see your point, greninja with 4 moves hits a large portion of the metagame super effectively, so it doesn't really matter if it can only use 4 moves, since the other moves it wishes it could have are tailored to specifically beat certain mons.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 40 attack EVs ensures an OHKO on stanard AV Azu with gunk shot, but I don't think it matters too much, since 4 attack still OHKOes after rocks iirc.
btw, you posted the viable moves for greninja, but you mentioned ice beam and HP ice lol

I'm guessing he meant HP Grass, as that's the only other viable hidden power to run.

 

[Mur]

Loving the discussion so far, thanks everyone for the detailed and interesting posts!
Any thoughts on a spikes set? I haven't really used spiker greninja a lot, but I think a sash lead greninja with double spikes (toxic and normal spikes) could be pretty interesting. Also, if running spikes, what would be the best coverage for the last 3 moves? Running spikes limits you to only 3 attacking moveslots, so you really have to pick and choose what you want to hit. I think ice beam, gunk shot and dark pulse would give you the best neutral coverage, but again, I'm not sure. Forgot to mention this, but one of the problems with greninja is it's EXTREME 4MSS. I basically chooses what it wants to hit, and what it wants to be walled by. It can be pretty tricky figuring out it's set (lost countless games due to switching in my ferrothorn on greninja, and then getting nailed by HP fire), and by then, you could have lost multiple members on your team.

A spikes set is actually not terrible with the amount of switches gren forces. This guarantees at least one layer before it's revealed to your opponent and even then staying in is risky as you can lose a mon just trying to stop spikes from being tossed all over you. Tbh I feel like ninja's 4 mss is more of a problem for the opponent as the greninja user can pick and choose what to kill during teambuilding and still hit like 3/4 of the tier SE while the opponent has to take massive damage just to see what gren is running.

Edit: boltsandbombers ninja'd me on the 4mss thing

 

[AM]

I'll chime in on this because every time someone asks for a Greninja set the convo in chat goes something like this.....

Newguy: What set do I use on Greninja?
GenericResponder: Low Kick, Ice Beam, Gunk Shot, Dark Pulse
Me: Uh, you use whatever your team needs lol. Not every Greninja needs to run the standard.

Point being it's all dependent on the team and archetype that Greninja is implemented on. If the team is bulky psychic weak, you'd be more inclined to run Dark Pulse. Do you need to run some lures? HP Fire for Ferrothorn, Extrasensory for Keldeo and Tentacruel can be used as options. Bulky water weak? Grass Knot is your friend. Realistically there's not an actual set that applies for every team build unless standard is all you need. It would change with the team itself in terms of specific moves and EV spreads being used.

Also just want to say that Spikes Ninja is viable and goes great on Hyper Offensive builds where your choices of offensive spikers are extremely limited in this archetype. Again the same concepts and ideas I mentioned still apply.

Edit: some of this was already explained a bit from boltsandbombers as well as others after deciding to not skim and notice it lol.

 

[Jaguar360]

Let's not forget Spikes Greninja now.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid/Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn/Dark Pulse/Extrasensory
It outspeeds and beats every Defogger aside from Empoleon with Ice Beam and has access to U-turn, which is more viable on this set than other sets since it carries less coverage, so it helps keep momentum and eases prediction. For spinners, Greninja beats Starmie if it has U-turn or Dark Pulse, Excadrill is beaten with Hydro Pump outside of sand if it doesn't have a Scarf and Tentacruel is 2HKOed by Extrasensory.

Also, the following set is a more physically based MixNinja that has an easier time with special walls and still beats the majority of special walls.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SAtk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse/Extrasensory
With these EVs, it can 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock damage, while still getting 2HKOs on Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Conkeldurr, Mandibuzz, Specially Defensive Gyarados (after SR damage, does 41.9%-49.8%), Zapdos, Latias, Mew, Rotom-W and much more. It also gets notable OHKOs on Clefable, Azumarill, Sp. Def Heatran, Gliscor, and Lando-T. With its 4th coverage move, it can chose to target Slowbro, Metagross and Jirachi whilst Extrasensory gets Mega Venusaur and Tentacruel.

EDIT: Greninja'd by AM and Mur22 to an extent about Spikes

 

[boltsandbombers]

Agreeing with boltsandbombers post above. Also, im pretty sure Greninja runs 40atk evs to ensure a OHKO on Clefable or Azumarill. So that would leave it with 216sp atk evs. Other than that I agree with your set because you said most common and from what ive seen hydro pump is used more than low kick. As for Greninja's best set I dont really think there is one as long as it uses its most viable moves (hydro pump, ice beam, low kick, gunk shot, dark pulse, spikes, u-turn, hp fire, hp ice, grass knot, extrasensory) in some combination that is tailored towards its team.

Small nitpick, but I don't think Greninja can ever OHKO Clefable with Gunk Shot, but it 2HKOs almost all the time. And yeah, the 40 Atk EVs ensure an OHKO on azumarill from full hp.

 

[Jaguar360]

Small nitpick, but I don't think Greninja can ever OHKO Clefable with Gunk Shot, but it 2HKOs almost all the time. And yeah, the 40 Atk EVs ensure an OHKO on azumarill from full hp.

244 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 359-424 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That's Unaware Clefable, but Magic Guard usually doesn't run max Def. anyway, so max Attack Greninja will OHKO nearly every time.

 

[boltsandbombers]

244 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 359-424 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That's Unaware Clefable, but Magic Guard usually doesn't run max Def. anyway, so max Attack Greninja will OHKO nearly every time.

Max Attack Greninja is extremely uncommon, but that is right.

 

[Karxrida]

Gunk Shot already 2HKOs Clefable and lets you survive a Moonblast (it only does like 30% tops to Naive),
40 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 296-351 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Greninja: 72-86 (25.2 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

As long as I'm here, I made an extremely long and comprehensive guide on how to beat Greninja consistently.

How to Deal with Greninja Guide

lol

Okay, serious time.

1. Sac something to it and pray your opponent is stupid enough to leave it in on your obvious Scarfer.
2. Switch in your Empoleon or Tentacruel and pray it doesn't have the coverage to beat them. If running Porygon2 pray it doesn't give a free switch to something dangerous.
   
3. Don't play Offense.
4. Try Pursuit Trapping it with Bisharp Our Lord and Savior if it isn't locked into being a Dark-type. You can try T-Tar if you want, just pray it isn't running Low Kick.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Is offense even viable anymore because of Greninja? No, really, I'm running into like, zero offensive teams. Here's the typical set (including different options Greninja can use):

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
-Gunk Shot
-Ice Beam
-Low Kick / Hydro Pump
-Dark Pulse / Extrasensory / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire

edit: I forgot that Greninja can totally use Hidden Power Fire too

Things offense can use that can switch in on EVERYTHING Greninja can use even just once: 0. You think you can switch your Manaphy in safely? You just got HP Grass'd in the face. Wanna sac something and then try to RK it with your Scarf user? Too obvious. I mean, come on, you don't have to be Albert fucking Einstein to think, "Hmm, he just sac'd something and switched Heatran in... Yep, he's probably Scarfed, this is an idiotic play otherwise"

Replace "Heatran" with literally anything and the point still stands. Just... If you wanna beat this thing, fucking don't use offense. And if you are going to use offense, at least use Greninja yourself so then at least the match boils down to who Greninjas better than the other Greninja user instead of "Oh, hey, Greninja vs. Offense, automatic advantage for Greninja."

I mean, I'm using Porygon2 on a balanced Sand team I'm making just because of Greninja, and that just goes to show how metagame-defining Greninja is.

 

[trillyntruly]

i think offense is viable in this meta. ninja fits like a glove onto any offensive team, having the ability to apply pressure to any team, acquire needed damage for late-game every time he comes in, support his team by getting up spikes/t-spikes to whittle, etc etc.

not to mention certain offensive threats handle ninja better than many defensive ones. i generally choose pokemon based on roles, sometimes this does not apply. chansey performs a role that i think could be beneficial for many teams (one of which is dealing with non-lowkick ninja), but i fucking hate chansey so i never use her. this leaves me essentially only with offensive options to deal with ninja. i've been playing primarily offense and offensive balance this meta so far and ninja, while obviously a fucking monster, hasn't been too much of an issue yet for me.

ninja can 6-0 most teams in theory, but there are still plenty of ways to deal with him, and i try to find at least 3 avenues of dealing with a greninja on any given team i make these days. scizor can win if it comes in on an ice beam, same with bisharp (also on a gunk shot), talonflame wins if it comes in safely (possible on a low kick), etc etc.

currently my favorite method of dealing with ninja is AV raikou on a team that discourages Gunk Shot usage.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 130-153 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 107-126 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

and of course, with greninja's new tools the ol' adage stands true, he can deal with those whom he couldn't before*:
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 212-251 (66 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

***i mean, obviously in certain situations ninja could keep whittling raikou who has no recovery until he can't come in anymore, so he could deal with AV raikou in a way, but again, that's why i try to have a few ways of dealing with him. sometimes it unfortunately means a sac.

yeah ninja lookin stronk these days

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

AV Raikou is just going to be KOed by Greninja the next turn since Greninja outspeeds, and just about any attack will deal enough damage to Raikou to put it in KO range for Gunk Shot.

 

[trillyntruly]

yeah assuming rocks are up you literally need the smallest possible roll on GS to live, and that's only assuming he doesn't go for hydro on the turn you switch. (plus for all i know the way PS rounds it might ko anyway)

either people aren't generally running 40 atk evs when i've switched in or they haven't been running gunk shot i guess. or potentially no rocks. raikou's been pretty reliable for me so far. still raikou performs well in a one-on-one, not really worrying about any of ninja's coverage (theoretically dig could hurt but...lol)

 

[wolfenstein]

Is there even anything greninja doesn't have coverage for? seriously, it's basically flawless bar hitting Sableye i guess (no HP fairy, rip.) And the thing is that it is not possible to say he has 4MSS because whatever he can't cover is fulfilled by the rest of your team. It's the main reason stall is so good right now, greninja can't really beat it and doesn't have enough coverage slots to do so. If you truly despise greninja and want to beat it 100% of the time i suggest sticking with stall as they have a few thing's capable of dealing with it like porygon, chansey (the only way it beats chansey is if it has 244 attack which is a completely stupid spread), tentacruel (unless extrasensory) to name a few.

The standard moveset for gren right now is Low kick, Gunk shot, Ice beam and Dark pulse. Depending on your team you can switch out dark pulse for extrasensory, grass knot, hp fire, etc. Basically whatever you need to patch up weak spots for your team. When you're playing gren and have a balance team (balance generally has a hard time, unless you play smart) then you have to get your predictions correct and make sure you have ways to switch in on gren. Also look for the type of coverage you think it has based on the opposing team. If they have a weakness to walls like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, expect an HP fire to smack you in the face. By looking at their team you can usually judge the greninja's moveset. That's the only way I've found to figure out its possible coverage moves.

On offense, you're better off picking your fodder every few turns cause you wont beat gren so easily. You have to make really smart plays to beat this thing on offense or you're opponent has to be an idiot. Either way greninja is getting a kill or two. Offensively, only checks exist for greninja like talonflame, scarf landorus-t, scarf magneton and scizor to name a few. Keep in mind because of protean these are all situational checks as sometimes scizor for example wont be able to check it due to it being stuck as a water type and thus bullet punch wont OHKO. Pursuit trapping weavile doesn't work either because of greninja's tendency to be fighting or dark type and because it doesn't OHKO either way unless you're banded. There are no good counters for this thing on offense, specifically hyper offense, so you better make sure you have an ample supply of sacrifices.

Most of what I've said has been covered by above users anyway, but that is the basis of Greninja.

 

[SparksBlade]

what i think is the biggest selling point for ninja is that it can have various "standard sets". Like, you built a balance/HO team and lack a special attacker, you have many options to choose from, but greninja is the easiest to slap on the team with its coverage and ability. It has tools to beat most of its checks/counters, and what can stop it mostly depends on the set being run. That said, it isn't godly. It's very frail on either side of defenses. Ice Beam and Dark Pulse leave it very vulnerable to Breloom's Mach Punch. You should never stay in on a Lando-T if you dont know whether its scarfed or not, since a scarf one can just u-turn and switch to an ice resist and your ninja dies to recoil.
tl;dr it is easy to slap on balanced/HO, but you cant use it as brainlessly to success

 

[Celticpride]

Interesting concept with Greninja I've been playing around with, not running Gunk Shot and running Dark Pulse / Extrasensory / Ice Beam / HP Fire or Low Kick. Seems weird, but the threat of Gunk Shot is so huge right now that nothing that Gunk beats will try to come in. It's a lure, but a good one because the opponent always assumes Gunk Shot is in the last moveslot and won't often switch in their Azu or Clefable.