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Pokemon Platinum In-Game Tiers
- Thread starter Jubilee
- Start date
Some comments on the list...
Magikarp should be moved down a tier or two. With the Old Rod it's found at lvls 3-15, meaning it will need a lot of babying to evolve, unless the player waits for the Good Rod, which is obtained after the 3rd gym. Also, although Gyarados has awesome stats, its movepool is pathetic, with Bite as its best attack once it evolves, Ice Fang at lvl 32 and Aqua Tail... at lvl 39. Definately not high tier, it should be low or at least mid imho.
Meditite is found early at lvl 15, sure, and it has a great ability, sure, however its only usable attacks are Confusion and Hidden Power till Force Palm at lvl 29. For it not to be a complete hinderance it needs to be caught much later in the game in Mt. Coronet at lvl 32, with Hjk already in its arsenal, and even then, it doesn't help make an efficient playthrough due to its horrible stats till it evolves (even with Huge Power factored in, it still has base 80 atk or so with pathetic defenses and only average speed). Even as Medicham, it's outclassed by less frail fighting-types which were available earlier in the game, like Machoke or Infernape. Should prolly be moved to mid.
There are only 2 pokemon in the E4 Azelf hits for super-effective damage (Roserade & Infernape), while being completely useless against Lucian and Aaron (it only has Confusion, Uproar, Swift and Nasty Plot at lvl 50). Pokemon in lower tiers, like Sneasel and Frosslass, hit half the E4 for supereffective damage through STABs alone, so it's odd how Azelf is high while they aren't. Unless the player uses TMs on it, it will be a hinderance to his/her team, which is why i recommend it to be moved to mid. TM reliance should be a negative factor when tiering pokemon in-game.
Rotom should imho be moved up a tier to high, seeing as it is extremely easy to train with all those Zubats/ Starlys/ Gyarados's in-game, stomps on two of the toughest Gyms with Ominous Wind (Fantina) and Shock Wave (Wake), and takes care of Lucian better than any Gengar (which is outped and OHKOed by 'Zam) would ever hope to.
Bronzor is another pokemon deserving of high tier imho, available b4 the 3rd gym, it helps against Fantina, has decent attack with amazing defenses, and takes care of Garchomp like no one's business.
I've used Psyduck a lot of times too and it has never disappointed me. Sure, its stats are low, but not too low, it's the earliest Water-type available (Ravaged Path, b4 the 1st gym) with Water Gun early enough at lvl 9. At the point when it's available, there are countless Geodude/ Onix around to get it up a few lvls, while Surf comes very early in this game and it evolves at a reasonable lvl. Definately not high, but i feel like it deserves at least mid.
A nitpick, you have Buneary's movepool listed as "shallow", while it gets Jump Kick and Bounce through lvl-up and Ice Beam/ T-bolt/ Shadow Ball from TMs.
Although Heracross is hard to find, it's one of the best fighting-types in the game. Its Brick Break at lvl 19 and Aerial Ace even earlier off an 125 attack are pretty awesome. Should be moved up at least to low imho, it literally makes the game easy-mode, and also helps a bunch in the E4.
Sneasel bottom? I'm 100% sure you have never used it. Weavile has stats that should make him high tier, and late availability isn't too much of an issue when the pokemon can outspeed and hit 13 out of the 26 pokemon in the League for supereffective damage through STABs alone. He merely needs the Razor Claw in Victory Road to evolve and 8 shards to learn Ice Punch, and he's ready to kick butt. He's the best late-game addition (b4 the 7th gym isn't THAT late anyways) one can have to his/her team, and he should by no means be bottom tier. Imho he should be high.
Magikarp should be moved down a tier or two. With the Old Rod it's found at lvls 3-15, meaning it will need a lot of babying to evolve, unless the player waits for the Good Rod, which is obtained after the 3rd gym. Also, although Gyarados has awesome stats, its movepool is pathetic, with Bite as its best attack once it evolves, Ice Fang at lvl 32 and Aqua Tail... at lvl 39. Definately not high tier, it should be low or at least mid imho.
Meditite is found early at lvl 15, sure, and it has a great ability, sure, however its only usable attacks are Confusion and Hidden Power till Force Palm at lvl 29. For it not to be a complete hinderance it needs to be caught much later in the game in Mt. Coronet at lvl 32, with Hjk already in its arsenal, and even then, it doesn't help make an efficient playthrough due to its horrible stats till it evolves (even with Huge Power factored in, it still has base 80 atk or so with pathetic defenses and only average speed). Even as Medicham, it's outclassed by less frail fighting-types which were available earlier in the game, like Machoke or Infernape. Should prolly be moved to mid.
There are only 2 pokemon in the E4 Azelf hits for super-effective damage (Roserade & Infernape), while being completely useless against Lucian and Aaron (it only has Confusion, Uproar, Swift and Nasty Plot at lvl 50). Pokemon in lower tiers, like Sneasel and Frosslass, hit half the E4 for supereffective damage through STABs alone, so it's odd how Azelf is high while they aren't. Unless the player uses TMs on it, it will be a hinderance to his/her team, which is why i recommend it to be moved to mid. TM reliance should be a negative factor when tiering pokemon in-game.
Rotom should imho be moved up a tier to high, seeing as it is extremely easy to train with all those Zubats/ Starlys/ Gyarados's in-game, stomps on two of the toughest Gyms with Ominous Wind (Fantina) and Shock Wave (Wake), and takes care of Lucian better than any Gengar (which is outped and OHKOed by 'Zam) would ever hope to.
Bronzor is another pokemon deserving of high tier imho, available b4 the 3rd gym, it helps against Fantina, has decent attack with amazing defenses, and takes care of Garchomp like no one's business.
I've used Psyduck a lot of times too and it has never disappointed me. Sure, its stats are low, but not too low, it's the earliest Water-type available (Ravaged Path, b4 the 1st gym) with Water Gun early enough at lvl 9. At the point when it's available, there are countless Geodude/ Onix around to get it up a few lvls, while Surf comes very early in this game and it evolves at a reasonable lvl. Definately not high, but i feel like it deserves at least mid.
A nitpick, you have Buneary's movepool listed as "shallow", while it gets Jump Kick and Bounce through lvl-up and Ice Beam/ T-bolt/ Shadow Ball from TMs.
Although Heracross is hard to find, it's one of the best fighting-types in the game. Its Brick Break at lvl 19 and Aerial Ace even earlier off an 125 attack are pretty awesome. Should be moved up at least to low imho, it literally makes the game easy-mode, and also helps a bunch in the E4.
Sneasel bottom? I'm 100% sure you have never used it. Weavile has stats that should make him high tier, and late availability isn't too much of an issue when the pokemon can outspeed and hit 13 out of the 26 pokemon in the League for supereffective damage through STABs alone. He merely needs the Razor Claw in Victory Road to evolve and 8 shards to learn Ice Punch, and he's ready to kick butt. He's the best late-game addition (b4 the 7th gym isn't THAT late anyways) one can have to his/her team, and he should by no means be bottom tier. Imho he should be high.
Huge Power does not double its base Attack, it doubles its current Attack stat. Assuming 31 IVs and Level 25, neutral nature, and 0 ev's Meditite's "base attack" is 105, and Medicham's is much higher than that. I know 31 is hard to come by but my point stands. The true problem lies in its terrible defenses and movepool which you mentioned. Just wanted to straighten that out =D
also, regarding Weavile. The points you make pretty much solidify why it is bottom tier; not only is it found near the 7th gym (that is indeed late game), but it can't evolve until even later in the game (right before the elite 4, not to mention that it needs trading to evolve), and requires item gathering to learn a just decent attack. Good attack and speed stats are not enough to make a Pokemon high tier.
also, regarding Weavile. The points you make pretty much solidify why it is bottom tier; not only is it found near the 7th gym (that is indeed late game), but it can't evolve until even later in the game (right before the elite 4, not to mention that it needs trading to evolve), and requires item gathering to learn a just decent attack. Good attack and speed stats are not enough to make a Pokemon high tier.
While I agree with most of what you said Vladimir, you have to remember that we're looking for Pokemon that provide the easiest and fastest run through the game. Any item collecting and honey slathering is time consuming, therefore it's not the most efficient way to go through the game. Heracross and Weavile will stay Low tier.
I like how you said that TM reliance is a negative factor and should move Azelf to mid-tier, but then you push for having to search for shards (which is the biggest pain-in-ass of any game I've played) to make Weavile worth-while. TM burning on Azelf is much quicker and do-able than what you said for Weavile.
I like how you said that TM reliance is a negative factor and should move Azelf to mid-tier, but then you push for having to search for shards (which is the biggest pain-in-ass of any game I've played) to make Weavile worth-while. TM burning on Azelf is much quicker and do-able than what you said for Weavile.
Leveling Magikarp despite how hard it may be is very worth it in my opinion and is why he is placed in the high tier. High attacks stat, great defenses, decent speed, learns a lot of HMs, great ability, good typing... I think those qualities are worth it even if it takes a little extra effort for him to evolve.
I'm fine with moving Meditite to mid.
Azelf should stay in high in my opinion, base 125 Special Attack (and attack but that's not very important because of its movepool), base 115 Speed, and obtained at a high level of 50. I wouldn't mind using a Psychic TM on it honestly, it can learn Fire Blast as well which can be bought from Veilstone Dept store.
The problem I have with moving Rotom to high is he isn't really strong at all... Base 95 Special Attack isn't exactly amazing, if others feel he should be moved up then I will.
Bronzong, same story as Rotom in my opinion, incredibly weak, and his movepool is quite terrible. I'll move him up if others think I should though.
I'm still going to have to say that Heracross deserves bottom even if he has great stats, he's incredibly hard to find and learns his good moves at too high of a level.
As the others said Sneasel deserves bottom even if it has good stats / offensive typing. Also adding to what they said about Sneasel its movepool is terrible.
All it learns through level up is Ice Shard (level 49...) and Faint Attack (level 14).
I'm fine with moving Meditite to mid.
Azelf should stay in high in my opinion, base 125 Special Attack (and attack but that's not very important because of its movepool), base 115 Speed, and obtained at a high level of 50. I wouldn't mind using a Psychic TM on it honestly, it can learn Fire Blast as well which can be bought from Veilstone Dept store.
The problem I have with moving Rotom to high is he isn't really strong at all... Base 95 Special Attack isn't exactly amazing, if others feel he should be moved up then I will.
Bronzong, same story as Rotom in my opinion, incredibly weak, and his movepool is quite terrible. I'll move him up if others think I should though.
I'm still going to have to say that Heracross deserves bottom even if he has great stats, he's incredibly hard to find and learns his good moves at too high of a level.
As the others said Sneasel deserves bottom even if it has good stats / offensive typing. Also adding to what they said about Sneasel its movepool is terrible.
All it learns through level up is Ice Shard (level 49...) and Faint Attack (level 14).
@Oglemi: there's a shard giver in Platinum in the Great Marsh (daily event), which means it's easy to have around a dozen of each shard in half an hour just by forwarding the clock. TMs on the other hand are one-time use only.
@Sneasel: it's still the only worthwhile late-game addition one can have to his/her team. If a player has pokes that don't match well against Bertha, Lucian, and Cynthia (which is highly likely as I've noticed from all my playthroughs), he/she can just slap Weavile on the team and the problem gets solved. 8 shards are extremely easy to come by anyways. With these qualities he doesn't deserve to be in the same tier as Burmy and lower than Clefairy and Chatot.
@Magikarp: My point was that even as a Gyarados, it's still hard to level up (only Bite) till lvl 35, at which point 2/3s of the game are already completed. You have to go through a time-consuming levelling process, and he's hardly usable for the biggest part of the game. He's worse than, say, Bronzor for lvls 20-34 (Less damage output (STAB Extrasensory > Bite) and worse defensive typing). These factors really make it difficult to have an efficient playthrough with Gyarados as a team member. There's a reason why nobody ever uses Magikarp in-game.
@Rotom: base 95 sp.atk b4 the 3rd gym is amazing, and there are so many electric-weak pokemon in this game that levelling up a Rotom is easy beyond belief. Unlike other electric types however, it isn't dead weight against the E4, since it owns Lucian. I've had more success with Rotom than Shinx.
@Heracross: It doesn't get its good moves at too high of a level, at 19 he learns Brick Break. I feel he should be differentiated from all the other worthless Honey Tree pokes, and moved a tier above bottom.
What about Psyduck? base 65 sp.atk is decent, and it's available b4 the first gym - awesome for Chimchar users. Also he gets Water Gun early and Surf is available around the 4th gym. I don't think it should stay low.
@Sneasel: it's still the only worthwhile late-game addition one can have to his/her team. If a player has pokes that don't match well against Bertha, Lucian, and Cynthia (which is highly likely as I've noticed from all my playthroughs), he/she can just slap Weavile on the team and the problem gets solved. 8 shards are extremely easy to come by anyways. With these qualities he doesn't deserve to be in the same tier as Burmy and lower than Clefairy and Chatot.
@Magikarp: My point was that even as a Gyarados, it's still hard to level up (only Bite) till lvl 35, at which point 2/3s of the game are already completed. You have to go through a time-consuming levelling process, and he's hardly usable for the biggest part of the game. He's worse than, say, Bronzor for lvls 20-34 (Less damage output (STAB Extrasensory > Bite) and worse defensive typing). These factors really make it difficult to have an efficient playthrough with Gyarados as a team member. There's a reason why nobody ever uses Magikarp in-game.
@Rotom: base 95 sp.atk b4 the 3rd gym is amazing, and there are so many electric-weak pokemon in this game that levelling up a Rotom is easy beyond belief. Unlike other electric types however, it isn't dead weight against the E4, since it owns Lucian. I've had more success with Rotom than Shinx.
@Heracross: It doesn't get its good moves at too high of a level, at 19 he learns Brick Break. I feel he should be differentiated from all the other worthless Honey Tree pokes, and moved a tier above bottom.
What about Psyduck? base 65 sp.atk is decent, and it's available b4 the first gym - awesome for Chimchar users. Also he gets Water Gun early and Surf is available around the 4th gym. I don't think it should stay low.
Alright, i'll move Rotom to high and Magikarp to mid.
Psyduck I have to disagree with. The only good level up moves it has are Water Gun and Confusion which both are incredibly weak. Adding to that the only good TMs/HMs it learns is Surf / Ice Beam / Blizzard. Which i'd rather use the latter two on something else, especially since Psyducks Special Attack is pretty terrible.
I still have to disagree with Sneasel and Heracross as well.
Heracross is too much of an inconvenience to obtain, and as I said before this guide isn't just about having great stats.
Sneasel like I said before is obtained too late, and has a terrible movepool. Plus the inconvenience of having to evolve it.
Psyduck I have to disagree with. The only good level up moves it has are Water Gun and Confusion which both are incredibly weak. Adding to that the only good TMs/HMs it learns is Surf / Ice Beam / Blizzard. Which i'd rather use the latter two on something else, especially since Psyducks Special Attack is pretty terrible.
I still have to disagree with Sneasel and Heracross as well.
Heracross is too much of an inconvenience to obtain, and as I said before this guide isn't just about having great stats.
Sneasel like I said before is obtained too late, and has a terrible movepool. Plus the inconvenience of having to evolve it.
