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Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers - Mark II
- Thread starter Mekkah
- Start date
- Status
How is beating voltorb and maybe-doing-something against pikachu at all useful? The same goes for practically every Pokemon. The only poke worth nothing on Surge's team is Raichu. Surge is also so beat by anything with a ground type that we might as well not even mention the merit of anything else.
Yeah I agree with Chou. Raichu may as well be Lt. Surge's whole team. Saying that Dux can beat Pikachu and Voltorb is not giving the person refering to the tier list any useful information at all and chances are that if you have something to beat Raichu you'll be using that to beat Voltorb and Pikachu anyway. That actually applies to all the gym leaders. We don't need to mention how it matchs up against every single pokemon on their teams, just the important ones. For example, who cares if something can beat Sabrina's Abra in Yellow? Just focus on the main threats and save time!
I think the write up is fine because it covers both advantages of using Farfetch'd: unique (in RB) access to Cut/Fly and boosted experience. If I had to nitpick I guess you could emphasize a bit more that boosted experience helps its teammates more than itself because it allows its teammates more opportunities to get experience, which is useful in the long run. Oh, and the dry humping comment made me lol.
I think the write up is fine because it covers both advantages of using Farfetch'd: unique (in RB) access to Cut/Fly and boosted experience. If I had to nitpick I guess you could emphasize a bit more that boosted experience helps its teammates more than itself because it allows its teammates more opportunities to get experience, which is useful in the long run. Oh, and the dry humping comment made me lol.
That Abra only flashes you, so having your main attacker in against it makes it harder to take out the Kadabra and Alakazam. Having something to take out the Abra (or Pikachu and Voltorb) could save you a lot of pain later on in the fight.
Fair, I think even the anime writers realized that about Surge as well, he only uses Raichu in the anime.
Speaking of birds, should someone redo Spearow? Heres the current write up.
Spearow - High Tier
Availability: Very Early, right after you first get Pokeballs
Stats: High damage, high Speed (and thus CH rate), but poor defenses
Movepool: High-PP, powerful STAB Drill Peck at level 29 (Spearow) or 34 (Fearow) and then spams Drill Peck for the rest of the game; can be taught Hyper Beam
Power: Evolves very early, at level 20, and 2HKOes almost every pokemon that doesn't resist Flying once it gets Drill Peck and OHKOes frail powerhouses like Sabrina's Alakazam
Type: Great STABs, although their coverage is a bit redundant; no important resists, immune to Ground-type moves (although they tend to be paired with Rock-types), weak to Electric and Ice.
Match-ups:
Brock: bad
Misty: mediocre, usually can't solo Starmie
Erika: sweeps
Koga: mediocre
Blaine: OHKOes Growlithe and Ponyta, mediocre besides
Sabrina: sweeps
Giovanni: OHKOes Dugtrio, mediocre besides
Lorelei: OHKOes Jynx, mediocre besides
Bruno: Destroys his 3 fighters but gets walled by his two Onix
Agatha: sweeps
Lance: 2HKOes anything but Aerodactyl, and is very frail
Rival: OHKOes Alakazam and his Grass-type, outspeeds and 2HKOes Pidgeot, usually beaten by Water-type and Rhydon
I mean, can it really "sweep" Sabrina? Sure her Pokemon are not bulky...but Kadabra/Alakazam usually go first and its not like Fearow itself hsa the bulk to take a Psychic.
Speaking of birds, should someone redo Spearow? Heres the current write up.
Spearow - High Tier
Availability: Very Early, right after you first get Pokeballs
Stats: High damage, high Speed (and thus CH rate), but poor defenses
Movepool: High-PP, powerful STAB Drill Peck at level 29 (Spearow) or 34 (Fearow) and then spams Drill Peck for the rest of the game; can be taught Hyper Beam
Power: Evolves very early, at level 20, and 2HKOes almost every pokemon that doesn't resist Flying once it gets Drill Peck and OHKOes frail powerhouses like Sabrina's Alakazam
Type: Great STABs, although their coverage is a bit redundant; no important resists, immune to Ground-type moves (although they tend to be paired with Rock-types), weak to Electric and Ice.
Match-ups:
Brock: bad
Misty: mediocre, usually can't solo Starmie
Erika: sweeps
Koga: mediocre
Blaine: OHKOes Growlithe and Ponyta, mediocre besides
Sabrina: sweeps
Giovanni: OHKOes Dugtrio, mediocre besides
Lorelei: OHKOes Jynx, mediocre besides
Bruno: Destroys his 3 fighters but gets walled by his two Onix
Agatha: sweeps
Lance: 2HKOes anything but Aerodactyl, and is very frail
Rival: OHKOes Alakazam and his Grass-type, outspeeds and 2HKOes Pidgeot, usually beaten by Water-type and Rhydon
I mean, can it really "sweep" Sabrina? Sure her Pokemon are not bulky...but Kadabra/Alakazam usually go first and its not like Fearow itself hsa the bulk to take a Psychic.
It's also REALLY bare bones, so a new write-up would be really preferred.
I really can't remember how Spearow goes against Sabrina (or Agatha) since it's been a while since I used it, but if I had to be honest... I've never really liked Spearow in High much. I mean, it's definitely better than Pidgey simply because Peck actually has super-effective coverage (not to mention it fully evolves much earlier and gets a better Flying STAB), but it doesn't really take off for a while until it gets Fly/Drill Peck, it's only useful in spurts until then, and by the time it does get its good Flying moves Doduo is right there and does the same thing, but without the rather average early game and with a better Normal STAB that lacks any drawbacks (yes I know comparisons are irrelevent when it comes to tier placements but I still need to show that I think Spearow is a worse choice than Doduo so that any potential tier drop makes sense). Its movepool isn't that good early on as it's relying on Peck and Fury Attack (if the opponent isn't weak to Peck then it isn't really much better than a Pidgey/Pidgeotto spamming Quick Attack unless it gets lucky with Fury Attack or something), and it doesn't have that many good match-ups either.
Again, haven't used it as much as other stuff but is anyone who has used it a lot able to vouch for it in High? I wasn't never really that impressed by it. Definitely Mid at least though.
I'm not saying that being able to kill these pokemon isn't important. I'm arguing that being able to kill Abra/Voltorb/Pikachu/whatever is not a particularly unique or interesting skill of a pokemon. Almost everything on your team will be able to kill those things, so what use is there in mentioning stuff like that? That is not going to convince anyone referring to the tier list that any particular pokemon is a good choice and there are more helpful pieces of information that we can cover instead, so why bother mentioning it?
Again, haven't used it as much as other stuff but is anyone who has used it a lot able to vouch for it in High? I wasn't never really that impressed by it. Definitely Mid at least though.
That's silly. If your "main attacker" is able to deal with Kadabra and Alakazam, then do you really think that they are going to care about Abra? Abra is just a weaker version of its evolved forms. It'll get killed before it can Flash.
I'm not saying that being able to kill these pokemon isn't important. I'm arguing that being able to kill Abra/Voltorb/Pikachu/whatever is not a particularly unique or interesting skill of a pokemon. Almost everything on your team will be able to kill those things, so what use is there in mentioning stuff like that? That is not going to convince anyone referring to the tier list that any particular pokemon is a good choice and there are more helpful pieces of information that we can cover instead, so why bother mentioning it?
I agree with this, mid seems a like better placement. Perhaps someone should retest it? Some things about that review seem a bit off...like even if Fearow can actually 2HKO Lance's Pokemon, its not like Fearow will be wanting to take Hyper Beams too the face.
Edit: On Sabrina and Agatha, actually I do remember Sabrina being a lot weaker in R&B compared to Yellow, so maybe its possible. Agatha can't do much to the birds outside of Confusion (PokeFlute cures Hypnosis+Dream Eater combo). Still, not really buying Fearow in high.
I'll take care of Spearow, as I recently playtested it.
-Spearow - Mid Tier
-Availability: Spearow can be caught at Route 22 at levels 3 through 5 in Red and Blue and at levels 2 through 6 in Yellow. However, finding them could potentially be time-consuming, as it has a one-in-ten chance of appearing. As for evolving, Spearow evolve at the fairly average level of 20.
-Stats: Spearow and Fearow are fast and have a solid Attack stat, but they're both frail. Also, their Attack tends to fade into the "average" range as the game reaches its climax.
-Movepool: Spearow's movepool isn't exactly vast; the only moves it can learn, with the exception of Agility, which is rather useless due to Spearows high Speed, are either Normal- or Flying-type. It gets Peck from the start, which allows it to differentiate itself from Pidgey in addition to mauling almost everything in Viridian Forest. Fury Attack, while time-consuming due to it being a multi-hit attack, is more powerful against those neutral to Peck on average. Later on, Spearow (which should be a Fearow by then) learns Drill Peck at level 34, which is after it gets access to Fly, but since the two have similar base powers and Fly is a 2-turn attack, Drill Peck is often the better choice between the two. Mirror Move, while unreliable, has its uses, and with Drill Peck and Fly being the only mandatory moves, Fearow definitely has room for it.
-Power: As mentioned above, Spearow destroys everything in Viridian Forest, barring the hard-to-find Pikachu in Red and Blue and the occasional Pidgey as well as the Nidoran trainer in the bottom left corner of the woods. While Spearow doesn't exactly do well in Mt. Moon or Rock Tunnel, the small amount of Rock-types in between allows Spearow to hold its own. After Rock Tunnel come Pokemon Tower and Celadon Gym, both of which are handily beaten by Fearow, courtesy of Fly. However, once those areas are cleared, Koffing and Weezing appear, causing Fearow's usefulness to decrease to the part of the game before Rock Tunnel but after Mt. Moon.
-Type: Normal doesn't do much for Spearow, but its secondary Flying typing allows it to crush the Bug-types that are commonplace early on in the game, but also leaves it vulnerable to the Rock-types that appear shortly afterward. Another thing to take into account is the redundant coverage Fire- and Flying-type moves have: they both hit Grass- and Bug-types super effectively, and they're both resisted by Rock-types. This means that if you chose Charmander as your starter, you probably shouldn't be using Spearow.
-Match-ups:
--Brock: Spearow isn't of much help to you in this fight, due to Peck being resisted by both of his Pokemon.
--Misty: While Spearow's attacks aren't resisted by any of her Pokemon, her Starmie outspeeds it and deals a hefty chunk of damage to it with Bubblebeam.
--Lt. Surge: Same story as Brock, but Lt. Surge actually has a move that hits Fearow super-effectively.
--Erika: While her Victreebel/Weepinbell does know Wrap, Fearow is faster and it should know Fly at that point. Also, because Erika will not attack Fearow with a move that it resists, even if it doesn't do damage in the first place, none of her Pokemon will not use Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, or Petal Dance against it, making Fearow's job much easier. In fact, if you wanted, you could possibly defeat the entire Gym with Fearow alone.
--Koga: Unfortunately for Fearow, Koga's team in Red and Blue has 3 Pokemon with respectable Defense, meaning that while it does better against him than against Brock, it doesn't exactly excell against him either. In Yellow, it's a different story, thanks to his team literally consisting of 3 Venonat and a Venomoth. Repeated Psychic-type attacks do take their toll, however.
--Sabrina: In Red and Blue, this fight is the best shot Fearow has at utilizing Mirror Move. If Mr. Mime uses Light Screen, Fearow can Mirror Move it, halving all special damage (barring Psywave). However, if Mr. Mime doesn't use Light Screen, odds are that Fearow will lose against Alakazam. In Yellow, all of Sabrina's Pokemon are a whopping level 50, and as such are faster than Fearow. When this is combined with Kadabra and Alakazam's incredible Special, it shouldn't take long to notice that Fearow doesn't do too well.
--Blaine: Honestly, this fight could go either way, but the odds are somewhat in Blaine's favor due to Rapidash's Fire Spin and Arcanine's surprisingly usable bulk.
--Giovanni: It should go without saying that Fearow shouldn't even come near his Rhyhorn or Rhydon. In Red and Blue, Dugtrio has Slash, which Fearow will gladly Mirror Move back in its face for the probable OHKO, while Dugtrio can't even touch Fearow in Yellow. Speakin of which, Yellow has Persian, who also knows Slash, which does a ton when used against it via Mirror Move. Finally, the Nidos, while easily manageable in Red and Blue, know Thunder in Yellow, causing Fearow to have second thoughts about taking them on.
--Lorelei: All of Lorelei's Pokemon either have great physical bulk, an Ice-type attack, or both. The outcome of this match is obvious.
--Bruno: His Fighting-types are soundly beaten, while his 2 Onix stand(?) tall against Fearow's assault.
--Agatha: While Fearow does impeccably in Pokemon Tower, that performance doesn't transition to the fight against Agatha, mainly due to the fact that the Ghost-types in Pokemon Tower were lower-levelled than Fearow while it's the other way around for Agatha. However, her main strategy in Red and Blue is to put her opponents to sleep or confuse them, and the former can be remedied via the Poke Flute.
--Lance: Considering Fearow's forgettable physical bulk as well as the considerable strength of most of Lance's Pokemon, it should be safe to assume that Fearow's not going to be taking any Hyper Beams from them any time soon. In Yellow, his 2 Dragonair and Dragonite know moves super effective against Fearow, meaning they might not even have to use Hyper Beam against it.
--Rival: Unfortunately for Fearow, the only notable Pokemon it can beat on a regular basis is Venusaur. Everything else either beats it or isn't impressive to beat.
-Additional Comments: Spearow is your average early-game Flying-type: it's great against the numerous Bug-types early on and is otherwise solid whenever it isn't face to face with a Rock-type, but it isn't always the best choice in a major battle, due to its poor bulk and lack of coverage outside of STAB. It also has to contend with being mediocre when being used with Pikachu and Charmander: the former due to the fact that it tends to hog the Viridian Forest exp. while being no good against Brock and the latter due to redundant type coverage. However, Spearow is still a solid Pokemon, notably one that is able to clear out Pokemon Tower without having to use Dig or a Psychic-type attack.
Also, Paras, Meowth, Krabby, Magmar, and possibly Moltres may be soon to follow.
@Hemp Man (below)
1) I'm not sure how I made that mistake, but it is now fixed. Thank you for pointing it out!
2) While Fearow can indeed beat his Exeggutor, it's not really notable as numerous Pokemon can accomplish the same, due to Eggy's moveset being terrible. (Hypnosis/Barrage/Stomp in RB with Y's being the same with the addition of Leech Seed.)
-Spearow - Mid Tier
-Availability: Spearow can be caught at Route 22 at levels 3 through 5 in Red and Blue and at levels 2 through 6 in Yellow. However, finding them could potentially be time-consuming, as it has a one-in-ten chance of appearing. As for evolving, Spearow evolve at the fairly average level of 20.
-Stats: Spearow and Fearow are fast and have a solid Attack stat, but they're both frail. Also, their Attack tends to fade into the "average" range as the game reaches its climax.
-Movepool: Spearow's movepool isn't exactly vast; the only moves it can learn, with the exception of Agility, which is rather useless due to Spearows high Speed, are either Normal- or Flying-type. It gets Peck from the start, which allows it to differentiate itself from Pidgey in addition to mauling almost everything in Viridian Forest. Fury Attack, while time-consuming due to it being a multi-hit attack, is more powerful against those neutral to Peck on average. Later on, Spearow (which should be a Fearow by then) learns Drill Peck at level 34, which is after it gets access to Fly, but since the two have similar base powers and Fly is a 2-turn attack, Drill Peck is often the better choice between the two. Mirror Move, while unreliable, has its uses, and with Drill Peck and Fly being the only mandatory moves, Fearow definitely has room for it.
-Power: As mentioned above, Spearow destroys everything in Viridian Forest, barring the hard-to-find Pikachu in Red and Blue and the occasional Pidgey as well as the Nidoran trainer in the bottom left corner of the woods. While Spearow doesn't exactly do well in Mt. Moon or Rock Tunnel, the small amount of Rock-types in between allows Spearow to hold its own. After Rock Tunnel come Pokemon Tower and Celadon Gym, both of which are handily beaten by Fearow, courtesy of Fly. However, once those areas are cleared, Koffing and Weezing appear, causing Fearow's usefulness to decrease to the part of the game before Rock Tunnel but after Mt. Moon.
-Type: Normal doesn't do much for Spearow, but its secondary Flying typing allows it to crush the Bug-types that are commonplace early on in the game, but also leaves it vulnerable to the Rock-types that appear shortly afterward. Another thing to take into account is the redundant coverage Fire- and Flying-type moves have: they both hit Grass- and Bug-types super effectively, and they're both resisted by Rock-types. This means that if you chose Charmander as your starter, you probably shouldn't be using Spearow.
-Match-ups:
--Brock: Spearow isn't of much help to you in this fight, due to Peck being resisted by both of his Pokemon.
--Misty: While Spearow's attacks aren't resisted by any of her Pokemon, her Starmie outspeeds it and deals a hefty chunk of damage to it with Bubblebeam.
--Lt. Surge: Same story as Brock, but Lt. Surge actually has a move that hits Fearow super-effectively.
--Erika: While her Victreebel/Weepinbell does know Wrap, Fearow is faster and it should know Fly at that point. Also, because Erika will not attack Fearow with a move that it resists, even if it doesn't do damage in the first place, none of her Pokemon will not use Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, or Petal Dance against it, making Fearow's job much easier. In fact, if you wanted, you could possibly defeat the entire Gym with Fearow alone.
--Koga: Unfortunately for Fearow, Koga's team in Red and Blue has 3 Pokemon with respectable Defense, meaning that while it does better against him than against Brock, it doesn't exactly excell against him either. In Yellow, it's a different story, thanks to his team literally consisting of 3 Venonat and a Venomoth. Repeated Psychic-type attacks do take their toll, however.
--Sabrina: In Red and Blue, this fight is the best shot Fearow has at utilizing Mirror Move. If Mr. Mime uses Light Screen, Fearow can Mirror Move it, halving all special damage (barring Psywave). However, if Mr. Mime doesn't use Light Screen, odds are that Fearow will lose against Alakazam. In Yellow, all of Sabrina's Pokemon are a whopping level 50, and as such are faster than Fearow. When this is combined with Kadabra and Alakazam's incredible Special, it shouldn't take long to notice that Fearow doesn't do too well.
--Blaine: Honestly, this fight could go either way, but the odds are somewhat in Blaine's favor due to Rapidash's Fire Spin and Arcanine's surprisingly usable bulk.
--Giovanni: It should go without saying that Fearow shouldn't even come near his Rhyhorn or Rhydon. In Red and Blue, Dugtrio has Slash, which Fearow will gladly Mirror Move back in its face for the probable OHKO, while Dugtrio can't even touch Fearow in Yellow. Speakin of which, Yellow has Persian, who also knows Slash, which does a ton when used against it via Mirror Move. Finally, the Nidos, while easily manageable in Red and Blue, know Thunder in Yellow, causing Fearow to have second thoughts about taking them on.
--Lorelei: All of Lorelei's Pokemon either have great physical bulk, an Ice-type attack, or both. The outcome of this match is obvious.
--Bruno: His Fighting-types are soundly beaten, while his 2 Onix stand(?) tall against Fearow's assault.
--Agatha: While Fearow does impeccably in Pokemon Tower, that performance doesn't transition to the fight against Agatha, mainly due to the fact that the Ghost-types in Pokemon Tower were lower-levelled than Fearow while it's the other way around for Agatha. However, her main strategy in Red and Blue is to put her opponents to sleep or confuse them, and the former can be remedied via the Poke Flute.
--Lance: Considering Fearow's forgettable physical bulk as well as the considerable strength of most of Lance's Pokemon, it should be safe to assume that Fearow's not going to be taking any Hyper Beams from them any time soon. In Yellow, his 2 Dragonair and Dragonite know moves super effective against Fearow, meaning they might not even have to use Hyper Beam against it.
--Rival: Unfortunately for Fearow, the only notable Pokemon it can beat on a regular basis is Venusaur. Everything else either beats it or isn't impressive to beat.
-Additional Comments: Spearow is your average early-game Flying-type: it's great against the numerous Bug-types early on and is otherwise solid whenever it isn't face to face with a Rock-type, but it isn't always the best choice in a major battle, due to its poor bulk and lack of coverage outside of STAB. It also has to contend with being mediocre when being used with Pikachu and Charmander: the former due to the fact that it tends to hog the Viridian Forest exp. while being no good against Brock and the latter due to redundant type coverage. However, Spearow is still a solid Pokemon, notably one that is able to clear out Pokemon Tower without having to use Dig or a Psychic-type attack.
@Hemp Man (below)
1) I'm not sure how I made that mistake, but it is now fixed. Thank you for pointing it out!
2) While Fearow can indeed beat his Exeggutor, it's not really notable as numerous Pokemon can accomplish the same, due to Eggy's moveset being terrible. (Hypnosis/Barrage/Stomp in RB with Y's being the same with the addition of Leech Seed.)
The point I was making was that it's alright to be mentioned because it's something a particular Pokemon can do to help out the main attacker. It shouldn't have too much effect on the tiering, but it really should be mentioned. Pikachu has trouble with Starmie, but absolutely destroys the gym trainers in Misty's gym. If you're using Diglett to rock Surge, you can use other Pokemon to gain experience from his trainers beforehand. Most of Koga's trainers use Psychic types, while he uses Poison types, so your Ground type might not be the best choice for the trainers (especially if you're using Nidoking/queen), but can destroy Koga without a hassle.
I meant to, but things irl (Thanksgiving, W2, etc.) kept impeding my progress. Paras is the one on my list that's closest to completion, so I'll hopefully have at least that done before I go to bed. Sorry about the wait up to this point as well as any further delays!
EDIT: Here's Paras!
-Paras - Low Tier
-Availability: Paras are found in Mt. Moon, and the deeper you go, the more common (and higher leveled) Paras will be. For comparison's sake, they have a 10% encounter rate at level 10 (9-11 in Yellow) in the middle floor and have a 15% chance of appearing in the deepest floor, at levels 10-12 (13 in Yellow). They can be found on the ground (top) floor in Red and Blue, but not in Yellow. They're only a 5% encounter there, so you're better off looking in the lower floors. Paras evolve at level 24.
-Stats: As with most early-game Bug-types, Paras have unimpressive stats all around. Their only stat that could be considered better than "average" is Attack, but it quickly falls behind due to a forgettable physical movepool. As for Speed, Parasect is up there with speed demons Snorlax and Slowbro.
-Movepool: Paras starts with Scratch as its only move, but gains Stun Spore at level 13, not too far from when you catch it. Stun Spore could potentially be very helpful, but the fact that you have to waste a turn to use it means it's only useful against Gym Leaders (that is, those that Paras and Parasect have a chance at beating). Paras's only STAB moves are Leech Life and Mega Drain; however, Leech Life is weaker that Scratch in any scenario other than ones where Leech Life deals super effective damage, and Mega Drain's power isn't too much better. Paras and Parasect also learn Slash, but not until level 39, and Parasect is one of the few users of Slash to not have a guaranteed critical hit when using it (for reference, Parasect's chance of landing a critical hit with Slash is 48.88%). Because of this, Body Slam is a great alternative, as it has a higher base power and Parasect also appreciates the paralysis chance. Other moves in Parasect's arsenal include Spore, which is very helpful against several bosses, and Swords Dance, whose sole purpose is to make Leech Life usable. Paras and Parasect also have access to Dig, which is possibly their best damaging move. Unfortunately for Paras, having it learn Dig means having none of your other Pokemon learn it, and Dig is a highly-contested TM, which might cause trouble for other Pokemon who might also greatly benefit from it.
-Power: With an initially average Attack stat and no STAB moves, it should come as no surprise that Paras starts off doing poorly. Even after it evolves and all of its stats get a much-needed (but not quite as much as it would have liked) increase, its performance never exceeds being average, thanks to its 4x weakness to Flying-type attacks as well as its pathetic speed and unimpressive defenses.
-Type: Paras's typing is infamous for having the most 4x weaknesses in the game, at 3. Said weaknesses are to Fire-, Poison-, and Flying-type moves, the latter two being quite common after Pokemon Tower. Also, while Bug and Grass are both helpful STABs at certain points in the game, Parasect just doesn't have the stats or moves to utilize them.
-Match-ups: The following match-ups will not take Spore into account, as a majority of them would be made easier, but longer.
--Misty: While Paras does have a resistance to Bubblebeam, it still has trouble with Misty if it doesn't know Leech Life due to its Scratch doing less to her Starmie than said Starmie's Tackle does in return.
--Lt. Surge: Parasect runs into a similar problem here, just replace Leech Life with Dig. Also, the problem is much more noticeable in Yellow due to his Raichu knowing Mega Kick.
--Erika: Her Victreebel (Weepinbell in Yellow) will not hesitate to Wrap Parasect into oblivion, but her other Pokemon fall quite easily to Leech Life.
--Koga: Koga's Pokemon all either have good defensive stats, allowing them to not faint in 2 Digs (Red/Blue), or are higher in level than Parasect, possess a neutrality to Dig, and can fire back with Psychic (Yellow)
--Sabrina: Leech Life does less to Alakazam than Recover heals, meaning you'll have to be reliant on Slash (which might as well be a coinflip) or Body Slam (which is learned via an exclusive TM) to beat it. This is not taking into account her previous Pokemon, which could capably weaken (if not KO) Parasect on their own.
--Blaine: Parasect is sluggish and has a 4x weakness to Fire Blast. Nothing more needs to be said.
--Giovanni: How well Parasect does against his Rhydon depends on whether or not it knows Mega Drain. While Dig gets the job done, it takes more hits to beat Rhydon with it than Mega Drain. Persian can be an annoyance, but the Nidos are far from intimidating, thanks to them having few attacks effective against Parasect.
--Lorelei: Considering all of her Pokemon (barring Slowbro for whatever reason) know Ice-type attacks of some sort, it should be safe to say Parasect should not be fighting her.
--Bruno: As with Giovanni's Rhydon, Bruno's Onix can either be taken down by 5, 2, or countless hits, depending on whether you taught Parasect Dig, Mega Drain, or neither. However, his Fighting-types can be beaten without Dig, with the exception of R/B Hitmonchan, as it knows Counter.
--Agatha: First of all, Parasect needs Dig to beat her Ghost-types. Secondly, she has a tendency to switch to Golbat when an opponent goes underground. Thirdly, all of her Pokemon are faster than Parasect and know status-inducing moves, which can be quite irritating.
--Lance: While Parasect might be able to withstand a Hyper Beam and then proceed to sleep something with Spore, that's all it can do against Lance.
--Rival: Most of the things Parasect can beat (and there are only 2-3 of those) are easily taken down by several different Pokemon, with the exception of Jolteon in Yellow if Parasect knows Dig.
-Additional Comments: Paras and Parasect were never good. This is mainly due to its lack of usable (outside of super effective hits) STAB, poor typing, and middling stats. While Spore is a great move, it was unfortunately given to a Pokemon that didn't have the Speed, defenses, or typing to utilize it to its greatest effect. As such, Paras (and Parasect) should not be considered for anything in Generation I. Even its utility of being a good HM Slave for Rock Tunnel because of its ablility to learn both Cut and Flash is only applicable to the remakes due to Paras not being able to learn Flash until Generation II.
@atsync
Thank you for reminding me of Body Slam! It has been added.
Nice write up as always Naix!
Agreeing with Paras in Low obviously. It's stats aren't completely bad (compared to some of the other pokemon going around) but it's slow, its movepool is thin, and its 3 4x weaknesses to Flying, Fire and Poison are just depressing.
Maybe you should mention that it gets Body Slam? I know the chances of getting it are very, very slim but the paralysis could help its speed issues and it works better with Swords Dance than Slash does (as crits ignore stat boosts). It's just a shame that it is so slow: if it could outspeed stuff it could Spore something, set up Swords Dance and sweep.
Agreeing with Paras in Low obviously. It's stats aren't completely bad (compared to some of the other pokemon going around) but it's slow, its movepool is thin, and its 3 4x weaknesses to Flying, Fire and Poison are just depressing.
Maybe you should mention that it gets Body Slam? I know the chances of getting it are very, very slim but the paralysis could help its speed issues and it works better with Swords Dance than Slash does (as crits ignore stat boosts). It's just a shame that it is so slow: if it could outspeed stuff it could Spore something, set up Swords Dance and sweep.
You can steal the items off it with Thief, and it's ridiculously easy to do so since there's one area where it's the only thing existing there.
paras just sucks in rby :(
-Meowth (Blue only) - Mid Tier
-Availability: The Scratch Cat Pokemon can be seen in the routes bordering Saffron City, the earliest of which being Routes 5 and 6. Out of all the Pokemon in those routes, approximately one fourth of them are Meowth, their levels ranging from 10 to 16. Meowth tend to evolve when they reach level 28.
-Stats: When looking at Meowth's stats, its Speed is far above the rest, being double any of its other stats, which are in the range of usability offensively, but leaves something to be desired defensively. Its evolution, Persian, follows this trend with all of its stats being noticeably higher than Meowth's, but keeping the theme of blazing speed and its other stats being average.
-Movepool: All Meowth level 12 or higher have Bite, a move with solid base power and the potential to flinch its target, in their arsenal. Meowth are also known for using Pay Day, a move which has the same power as Scratch but has the added effect of getting extra money at the end of battles. However, the sheer amount of trainers in the game means that you won't need it and will find it more of a hindrance than anything else. While Persian does eventually learn Slash, it won't do so until level 53, by which time you should have beaten the game.
Being a Normal-type, Meowth and Persian have a usable TM movepool, though not as impressive as some of its fellow Normal-types. It has access to Bubblebeam and Thunderbolt, the former being useful against the Ground-types in Rock Tunnel and the latter being helpful for the Bird Keepers and Swimmers that become quite common after Pokemon Tower (as well as being ironic). However, both of those TMs are exclusive, so if you're also using (or plan to use) an Electric-type or a (non-Seafoam Islands) Water-type in addition to Meowth, the Scratch Cat most likely won't be able to use either of those moves. Meowth can also learn Water Gun, but it is not recommended as it fails to OHKO anything that's even 4x weak to it. As with several Pokemon, Meowth can be taught Body Slam, but the fact that it has Bite in its arsenal when you get it means Meowth benefits less from it than a teammate such as Ivysaur would.
-Power: Bite allows Meowth to be a reliable, albeit frail, attacker once it catches up, and it's not defenseless before it catches up. Its previously mentioned frailty can be a problem, though. It can't do much in Pokemon Tower, for obvious reasons, but it does quite well in Routes 13 and 14 as well as the water Routes if it is taught Thunderbolt. Overall, Persian doesn't usually disappoint, but at the same time its performance doesn't regularly blow people away.
-Type: Having a Normal typing can be useful in the early-game, as most Pokemon typically have only Normal-type damaging moves in their arsenal at that point in the game. However, Meowth comes a bit late to the party, because by that point in the game the Bubblebeam and Dig TMs are available, and Pokemon who learn STAB my means of leveling up starts to learn those moves at the point Meowth becomes available. After that, Normal STAB becomes less and less useful due to it having absolutely no super effective coverage, despite having impressive neutral coverage. This is where secondary typings would come in handy, but Persian doesn't have one, hampering its potential usefulness.
-Match-ups:
--Lt. Surge: Due to Meowth's frailty, the chance of it taking more than one Thunderbolt is almost null.
--Erika: Persian can beat Victreebel one-on-one, but don't expect it to beat Vileplume afterward.
--Koga: Thanks to Koffing and Weezing being quite sturdy physically, it should come as no surprise that Persian has trouble against Koga if it doesn't have Thunderbolt.
--Sabrina: Persian can take her Alakazam on by itself and come on top in most cases. It also does well against her other Pokemon, but don't expect it to beat her by itself.
--Blaine: Unlike Persian, Blaine's Arcanine has usable bulk and a very threatening (to those who don't resist it, that is) STAB, proving that dogs normally defeat cats in one-on-one fights. Thankfully for Persian, it's faster than Rapidash, meaning that it has less to worry from Fire Spin than a Pokemon like Nidoqueen would.
--Giovanni: There's no way Persian's getting past his Rhydon without Bubblebeam. Dugtrio can be defeated, but it'll take a large chunk of Persian's health in the process, and the Nidos do similarly.
--Lorelei: Without Thunderbolt, Persian can beat Dewgong and Jynx, but nothing else, mainly due to the rest of her team having impressive physical bulk. If Thunderbolt is taken into account, Cloyster can be added to the above list.
--Bruno: Onix can take any of Persian's moves not called Bubblebeam, Hitmonchan can Counter any Normal-type assault from Persian back at it, and Bruno's other Pokemon know Fighting-type moves.
--Agatha: Persian can't do much of anything to her Ghost-types, the most threatening members of her team, but Golbat and Arbok are manageable. Just keep in mind Arbok can Wrap Persian into oblivion if Persian gets paralyzed.
--Lance: Persian might be able to take Gyarados's Hyper Beam or Hydro Pump and fry it with 2 consecutive Thunderbolts (if it has the move), but that's the best Persian can do for this fight.
--Rival: Unlike Sabrina's, the Champion's Alakazam beats Persian more often than the other way around, thanks to its level advantage as well as it actually knowing Psychic. The Champion's Gyarados, just like Lance's, is beaten provided Persian knows Thunderbolt. Everything else on his team that Persian can take down can also be defeated by a number of other Pokemon.
-Additional Comments: Meowth can fend for itself shortly after being caught, but the problem with it (and its evolution) is that outside of its Speed, none of its stats are impressive, despite none of them being truly bad, with the possible exception of Defense (which is a bit mediocre). This causes it to have a consistently average performance. Its movepool can be another problem, as its level-up movepool outside of an early Bite and a too-late Slash is quite scarce. This causes Meowth to be a bit high-maintenance at times, but not necessarily useless if left to its own devices.
--Koga: Thanks to Koffing and Weezing being quite sturdy physically, it should come as no surprise that Persian has trouble against Koga if it doesn't have Thunderbolt.
--Sabrina: Persian can take her Alakazam on by itself and come on top in most cases. It also does well against her other Pokemon, but don't expect it to beat her by itself.
--Blaine: Unlike Persian, Blaine's Arcanine has usable bulk and a very threatening (to those who don't resist it, that is) STAB, proving that dogs normally defeat cats in one-on-one fights. Thankfully for Persian, it's faster than Rapidash, meaning that it has less to worry from Fire Spin than a Pokemon like Nidoqueen would.
--Giovanni: There's no way Persian's getting past his Rhydon without Bubblebeam. Dugtrio can be defeated, but it'll take a large chunk of Persian's health in the process, and the Nidos do similarly.
--Lorelei: Without Thunderbolt, Persian can beat Dewgong and Jynx, but nothing else, mainly due to the rest of her team having impressive physical bulk. If Thunderbolt is taken into account, Cloyster can be added to the above list.
--Bruno: Onix can take any of Persian's moves not called Bubblebeam, Hitmonchan can Counter any Normal-type assault from Persian back at it, and Bruno's other Pokemon know Fighting-type moves.
--Agatha: Persian can't do much of anything to her Ghost-types, the most threatening members of her team, but Golbat and Arbok are manageable. Just keep in mind Arbok can Wrap Persian into oblivion if Persian gets paralyzed.
--Lance: Persian might be able to take Gyarados's Hyper Beam or Hydro Pump and fry it with 2 consecutive Thunderbolts (if it has the move), but that's the best Persian can do for this fight.
--Rival: Unlike Sabrina's, the Champion's Alakazam beats Persian more often than the other way around, thanks to its level advantage as well as it actually knowing Psychic. The Champion's Gyarados, just like Lance's, is beaten provided Persian knows Thunderbolt. Everything else on his team that Persian can take down can also be defeated by a number of other Pokemon.
-Additional Comments: Meowth can fend for itself shortly after being caught, but the problem with it (and its evolution) is that outside of its Speed, none of its stats are impressive, despite none of them being truly bad, with the possible exception of Defense (which is a bit mediocre). This causes it to have a consistently average performance. Its movepool can be another problem, as its level-up movepool outside of an early Bite and a too-late Slash is quite scarce. This causes Meowth to be a bit high-maintenance at times, but not necessarily useless if left to its own devices.
.....As you can see, I got Meowth done. Of all the Pokemon I tested, this is the one I've had the least confidence writing so far, mainly due to the fact that it never really stood out when I tested it, even though I taught it Thunderbolt, one of its best moves......Also, after some thought, I came to the opinion that the "Cut/Flash Slave" bit in my Paras revamp was poorly phrased, so I reworded it in an attempt to make it fit in more with the fact that it's an RBY entry rather than an FRLG one.
When I looked at Meowth and Persian's stats and movepool I thought that they would be good enough for Mid in theory. Someone with more experience with Meowth can weigh in, but I guess I can buy Meowth in Low. Its offences seem pretty underwhelming (they are on par with stuff like Porygon) and really, who even NEEDS 115 Speed when 100 Speed is more than enough to outspeed everything? Hell, even 70 Speed is going first most of the time! Maybe if it got Slash earlier...
Did you test this? The old Meowth entry states otherwise, although the fact that you felt the need to revamp it makes me question anything the old entry says.
I'm honestly on the fence as to what Meowth's placement should be. On one hand, its start isn't too bad thanks to having a 60 BP STAB move from the start, but it doesn't get much aside from that except Bubblebeam and Thunderbolt, 2 exclusive TMs, meaning it can be a bit high-maintenance. Of course, its overkill speed helps its critical hit ratio, but that is not something to be relied upon.
After looking at their stats, I've noticed that Persian is similar to Electrode; they both have unnecessarily high Speed backed up by usable attacking stats. As such, I could see a case for Meowth being in Mid just as much as, if not more than, one for Low. If I change my mind and change the tier in the entry to Mid, then I'll change the tone of the Additional Comments (and most likely Power as well) to reflect this, and I am perfectly fine if I end up doing so. I'll most likely make up my mind within 24 hours (or whenever I get enough time to edit the entry), but I'm leaning towards Meowth being in Mid as I'm typing this. I would edit it now, but it's really late and I'd rather make changes to Meowth's current revision when I'm not tired.
Also, I have tested Water Gun. When I was testing it, Meowth was level 27 in Rock Tunnel, and its Water Gun consistently left the Hikers' Geodudes with a small portion of HP remaining. Well, at least it was close!
After looking at their stats, I've noticed that Persian is similar to Electrode; they both have unnecessarily high Speed backed up by usable attacking stats. As such, I could see a case for Meowth being in Mid just as much as, if not more than, one for Low. If I change my mind and change the tier in the entry to Mid, then I'll change the tone of the Additional Comments (and most likely Power as well) to reflect this, and I am perfectly fine if I end up doing so. I'll most likely make up my mind within 24 hours (or whenever I get enough time to edit the entry), but I'm leaning towards Meowth being in Mid as I'm typing this. I would edit it now, but it's really late and I'd rather make changes to Meowth's current revision when I'm not tired.
Also, I have tested Water Gun. When I was testing it, Meowth was level 27 in Rock Tunnel, and its Water Gun consistently left the Hikers' Geodudes with a small portion of HP remaining. Well, at least it was close!
Alright, if its okay with you guys, I wanted to rewrite Zapdos. Basically just a more detailed version of the original write-up as its missing stuff like Zapdos VS Sabrina or Zapdos Vs Blaine. And it has some inaccurate information - Agatha doesn't even have 2 Haunters!
Zapdos - Top Tier
-Availability: Zapdos is available mid-game after you beat Koga and are allowed to use the HM Surf outside a battle. A detour is needed to get to the Power Plant, but he comes at a high level of 50.
-Stats: Zapdos has one of the highest BST in the game. Its stats allow it to outspeed most in-game threats, perform as a mixed a sweeper, and gives it the bulk to takes hit.
-Movepool: When you capture Zapdos he has ThunderShock and Drill Peck, and is only 1 level away from learning Thunder. ThunderShock's low Base Power and Thunder's accuracy may be a turn off, so be sure to save the Thunderbolt TM that LT Surge gave you. Thunderbolt + Drill Peck is basically all Zapdos needs, the other two slots are basically just filler and can be used to slap the Fly HM on there.
-Power: With 90 Base Attack and 125 Special, Drill Peck and Thunderbolt will hurt anything that isn't the Rock/Ground types or an Electric type. Electric Pokemon are not really really common after the Power Plant segment. The Rock/Ground types are 4x weak to both Grass and Water, so a Grass or Water type Pokemon partner is recommended to eliminate them for Zapdos.
-Type: Electric/Flying means Zapdos is only weak to Rock and Ice. Rock moves are not common at all in the game. Most users of Ice moves in the games are Water types and are easily taken out by Thunderbolt
-Match-ups:
--Sabrina: Zapdos high Special means it has the bulk to take her attacks, and Drill Peck makes short work of her Pokemon due to their low Defense.
--Blaine: Zapdos isn't guaranteed a sweep here but he can be a good help here. This battle is tougher in Yellow due to the higher levels and Blaine now having Ninetails on his team.
--Giovanni: Zapdos can handle Dugtrio rather easily, and it can assist against Persian and the Nidos. However, Rhydon walls Zapdos due to its immunity to Thunderbolt and resistance to Drill Peck.
--Lorelei: Zapdos is actually weak to Ice, but Thunderbolt can take out all of her Pokemon besides Jynx due to them being part Water.
--Bruno: Zapdos resists Fighting and can Drill Peck his fighting types to KO, but sadly his Onix's wall Zapdos.
--Agatha: The Ghosts low defense means Drill Peck will easily defeat them. Golbat and Arbok are easily taken out by Thunderbolt as well.
--Lance: Zapdos outspeeds Gyarados and OHKO's it with Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is also Super Effective on Aerodactyl, but the latter out-speeds you so be ready to take a Hyper Beam. In RB, Zapdos can beat down on Dragonair and Dragonite with Drill Peck and Thunderbolt, respectively. The Dragons are tougher for Zapdos to fight in Yellow version due to one of his Dragonair's and his Dragonite having Ice moves, however.
--Gary: Drill Peck takes out his Grass types where as Thunderbolt can take out his Water types and his Pidgeot. Zapdos can also use Drill Peck to take on his Alakazam and his Fire types if needed to. Zapdos has trouble against Rhydon, Jolteon, and Magneton however as they resist both of his STABs.
-Additional Comments: As you can see Zapdos is worthy of his title as a legend. While it requires a detour, tons of patience to capture it, and the Thunderbolt TM you'll have a powerful Level 50 Pokemon that stays relevant throughout the entire game. A strong recommendation if you want to add a legendary to your team.
Zapdos - Top Tier
-Availability: Zapdos is available mid-game after you beat Koga and are allowed to use the HM Surf outside a battle. A detour is needed to get to the Power Plant, but he comes at a high level of 50.
-Stats: Zapdos has one of the highest BST in the game. Its stats allow it to outspeed most in-game threats, perform as a mixed a sweeper, and gives it the bulk to takes hit.
-Movepool: When you capture Zapdos he has ThunderShock and Drill Peck, and is only 1 level away from learning Thunder. ThunderShock's low Base Power and Thunder's accuracy may be a turn off, so be sure to save the Thunderbolt TM that LT Surge gave you. Thunderbolt + Drill Peck is basically all Zapdos needs, the other two slots are basically just filler and can be used to slap the Fly HM on there.
-Power: With 90 Base Attack and 125 Special, Drill Peck and Thunderbolt will hurt anything that isn't the Rock/Ground types or an Electric type. Electric Pokemon are not really really common after the Power Plant segment. The Rock/Ground types are 4x weak to both Grass and Water, so a Grass or Water type Pokemon partner is recommended to eliminate them for Zapdos.
-Type: Electric/Flying means Zapdos is only weak to Rock and Ice. Rock moves are not common at all in the game. Most users of Ice moves in the games are Water types and are easily taken out by Thunderbolt
-Match-ups:
--Sabrina: Zapdos high Special means it has the bulk to take her attacks, and Drill Peck makes short work of her Pokemon due to their low Defense.
--Blaine: Zapdos isn't guaranteed a sweep here but he can be a good help here. This battle is tougher in Yellow due to the higher levels and Blaine now having Ninetails on his team.
--Giovanni: Zapdos can handle Dugtrio rather easily, and it can assist against Persian and the Nidos. However, Rhydon walls Zapdos due to its immunity to Thunderbolt and resistance to Drill Peck.
--Lorelei: Zapdos is actually weak to Ice, but Thunderbolt can take out all of her Pokemon besides Jynx due to them being part Water.
--Bruno: Zapdos resists Fighting and can Drill Peck his fighting types to KO, but sadly his Onix's wall Zapdos.
--Agatha: The Ghosts low defense means Drill Peck will easily defeat them. Golbat and Arbok are easily taken out by Thunderbolt as well.
--Lance: Zapdos outspeeds Gyarados and OHKO's it with Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is also Super Effective on Aerodactyl, but the latter out-speeds you so be ready to take a Hyper Beam. In RB, Zapdos can beat down on Dragonair and Dragonite with Drill Peck and Thunderbolt, respectively. The Dragons are tougher for Zapdos to fight in Yellow version due to one of his Dragonair's and his Dragonite having Ice moves, however.
--Gary: Drill Peck takes out his Grass types where as Thunderbolt can take out his Water types and his Pidgeot. Zapdos can also use Drill Peck to take on his Alakazam and his Fire types if needed to. Zapdos has trouble against Rhydon, Jolteon, and Magneton however as they resist both of his STABs.
-Additional Comments: As you can see Zapdos is worthy of his title as a legend. While it requires a detour, tons of patience to capture it, and the Thunderbolt TM you'll have a powerful Level 50 Pokemon that stays relevant throughout the entire game. A strong recommendation if you want to add a legendary to your team.
I agree that it's too good to be in Low. Slash is especially helpful in OHKOing Kazam and others later on, and with Water Gun/Bubblebeam and STAB it can serve all sorts of purposes. Bubblebeam shouldn't be contested too much, and if it is then you can't really blame Meowth for not dealing with rock/grounds well.
Also, I dare say this is the one generation where you can't possible have "too much" speed.
Doesn't Persian get Slash at level 53 though? That means that you would only be using it against the E4, and even then you would probably have to grind it some of the way to get it.
I mean I agree that it's too good to be in Low tier, but I'd say it's one of the lower mids. At least Electrode can hit things in the E4 with STAB Super-effective moves, something Persian can't really boast.
I have made up my mind on Meowth and have deemed it to be Mid Tier. As I said I would, I edited the entry accordingly. The next revamp I have in the works should be done by Sunday, provided nothing comes up or I'm not underestimating how long it'll take to write it.
Also, since nobody else is commenting on Hemp Man's Zapdos revision, I think I'll provide a comment for it. In availability, perhaps you should mention the sheer difficulty in catching it without the Master Ball? You mentioned it in the Additional Comments, so I see little reason to leave it out of availability. That's the only thing that sticks out; everything else looks pretty good. Well, outside of a few grammar-related issues.
Also, since nobody else is commenting on Hemp Man's Zapdos revision, I think I'll provide a comment for it. In availability, perhaps you should mention the sheer difficulty in catching it without the Master Ball? You mentioned it in the Additional Comments, so I see little reason to leave it out of availability. That's the only thing that sticks out; everything else looks pretty good. Well, outside of a few grammar-related issues.
Meh, feel free to fix any grammar-related issues you have with the write-up.
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