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Pokemon Starters: Research and Analysis

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Dietcoke101, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    Research on Starters:

    This is all my research, no one else's!

    Base stats are calculated by average not total amount, pretty much just as accurate as total stats, but whatever!

    *Bulbasaur: 53 *--> Ivysaur: *67.5 --> Venasaur: 87.5
    Charmander: 51.5*--> Charmeleon: 67.5*--> Charizard: 89*-->*
    Squirtle: 52.33*--> Wartortle: 67.5*--> Blastiose: 88.33*
    Chickorita: 53**--> Bayleaf: 67.5 --> Meganium: 87.5*
    Cyndaquil: 51.5*--> Quilava: 67.5*--> Typhlosion: 89
    Totodile: 52.33*--> Crawconaw: 67.5*--> Feraligatr: 88.33
    Treeko: 51.67*--> Grovyle: 67.5*--> Sceptile: 88.33
    Torchic: 51.67*--> Combusken: 67.5*--> Blaziken: 88.33
    Mudkip: 51.67*--> Marshtomp: 67.5*--> Swampert: 89.17
    Turtwig: 53*--> Grottle: 67.5*--> Torterra: 87.5
    Chimchar: 51.5*--> Monferno: 67.5*--> Infernape: 89
    Piplup: 52.33*--> Prinplup: 67.5*--> Empoleon: 88.33
    Snivy: 51.33*--> Servine: 68.83 --> Serperior: 88
    Tepig: 51.33*--> Pignite: 68.83 --> Emboarr: 88
    Oshawott: 51.33*--> Dewott: 68.83 --> *Samurrot: 88

    Ok now that it's all said and done here are the conclusions I came to:
    *--> The stats of the same type of each starter in Kanto, Jhoto, and Sinnoh are the same. Eg: stats of charmander = stats of chimchar.
    *--> The stats of all of the starters in Hoenn are the same.
    *--> The stats of all of the starters in Unova are the same.
    *--> Grass Pokemon are over all the strongest base stats for the unevolved Pokemon. I suppose this would compromise for their awful typing against gym leaders, especially in Jhoto. And because they are the weakest over all when fully evolved.
    *--> *Fire Pokemon are over all the weakest base stats for the unevolved Pokemon. I suppose this would compromise for their amazing typing against gym leaders, and that they have the highest base stats over all when fully evolved.
    *--> Water Pokemons stats are in between Fire and Grass when unevolved and when fully evolved.
    --> Conclusions before this point don't apply to Unova and Hoenn because the starters from those generations are the same no matter what stage they are in.
    --> Middle staged Pokemon have the same base stats as each type through every generation except Unova.
    --> Unova starters are the best middle stage Pokemon of any generation.

    Comments:*
    I personally like it the way that Hoenn and Unova did there starters so that you don't pick starters based on their base stats but because they're your favourite.

    Well, there you have it! Hope this helps when you choose a starter.*
  2. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    This is quite an interesting post, but I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning. I've found that whether a Pokemon is good or not can depend more on whether one or two of its stats are exceptional, than if it has a higher base total (ie, why Alakazam is more commonly used than Mew as a special sweeper). Other factors like movepool, dual types and abilities will also make much more of a difference to viability than slight variations in base stat totals. This is why Breloom, with one of the lowest BSTs of almost any fully evolved Pokemon, is used much more than Meganium, despite Meganium having a fairly high BST.
  3. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    Oh I know! You're absolutely right! I was just going by who has the best average stats! A lot of this can depend on their movepool and their secondary typing as well, which you included! Also pokemon like Charizard are good for stats and movepool but get owned by entry hazards! But none of these can totally discern whether on not a Pokemon is considered "strong". It can also depend on the person using it, and their strategy!

    After all, battling is like 40% skill (predictions and how to use your Pokemon) --> 30% the Pokemon you use --> 30% pure luck (Crits, haxs, etc.)
  4. Professor Science

    Professor Science

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    This is interesting, but there are some flaws. For one, strongest base stats =/= higher base stats. As erisia said, just because something has higher stats overall does not make it better, as you are implying. However, the main use I see for this is "what starter should I choose?" Do you want one that has higher overall stats at the beginning of the game, or the end? From that perspective, this could be a useful asset for newer players. But for the most experienced ones (i.e. everyone on Smogon) it would be useful to do even more research- Let's start taking individual stats and moves into account. On average, will a Chikaorita do more damage with a Razor Leaf than a Totodile with Water Gun? Which starters are the bulkiest, fastest, strongest, and how do they fare against other pokemon? That's what I'd like to know. I'm not expecting you to do all that, but one can dream.
  5. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    LC Research

    @Professor Science, well I guess dreams do come true! I did what you wanted, even though it took me like 2 hours :D Well here are my findings! I basically took 2 Pokemon that completely dominate the LC, and did damage calculations for the best move of their stab type that the main smogon analysis said they should use. The two pokemon that I chose were Munchlax and Ferroseed, both who have eviolite (The OU’s of LC) This time I didn’t write down my conclusions, I just thought you might want to conclude with some of your own! Just look, 3 hours later here we are!
    Pokemon: Move: Eviolite Munchlax Eviolite Ferroseed
    (not thick fat to be fair to fire starters)

    Bulbasaur: 53 LS | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 4.5-6/24 = 19%-25%
    Charmander: 51.5 FB | --> 10-13/33 = 30%-40% | --> 40-52/24 = 167%-217%
    Squirtle: 52.33 HP | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 3.5-5/24 = 15%-21%
    | |
    Chickorita: 53 LS | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 4.5-6/24 = 19%-25%
    Cyndaquil: 51.5 E | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 36-48/24 = 150%-200%
    Totodile: 52.33 HP | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 3.5-5/24 = 15%-21%

    | |
    Treeko: 51.67 LS | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 4.5-6/24 = 19%-25%
    Torchic: 51.67 FB | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 28-40/24 = 117%-167%
    Mudkip: 51.67 HP | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 3.5-5/24 = 15%-21%

    | |
    Turtwig: 53 LS | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 4.5-6/24 = 19%-25%
    Chimchar: 51.5 O | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 36-48/24 = 150%-200%
    Piplup: 52.33 HP | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 3.5-5/24 = 15%-21%
    | |
    Snivy: 51.33 LS | --> 9-12/33 = 27%-36% | --> 4.5-6/24 = 19%-25%
    Tepig: 51.33 FB | --> 10-13/33 = 30%-40% | --> 40-52/24 = 167%-217%
    Oshawott: 51.33 HP | --> 7-10/33 = 21%-30% | --> 3.5-5/24 = 15%-21%

    NOTE: Abreviations:
    HP = Hydro Pump E = Eruption
    LS = Leaf Storm SB = Seed Bomb
    FB = Flare Blitz O = Overheat
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast
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    To make it "fair" to Fire starters, the calcs should be against a Normal type with the same Defense and Special Defense. It may not have Eviolite or be LC, but Spinda has base 60 in all six stats.
  7. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    @ Arcticblast, Yah thats why I used Munchlax as the first one, meaning he was the most important! That is a good pokemon to test it on, however, I was researching that part for LC, and since Spinda isn't an LC Pokemon I didn't research it! But... if you really wanted me to I could do some research on him.
  8. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    Research Cont'd:
    Well Here's the second part of the research you wanted Professor Science:
    Pokemon BULK (HP/SPD/DEF) | AVG BULK | OFFENSE (ATK/SPA) | AVG OFFENSE | SPEED
    Bulbasaur: 45/49/65 | 53 | 49/65 | 57 | 45
    Charmander: 39/43/50 | 44 | 52/60 | 56 | 65
    Squirtle: 44/65/64 | 57.67 | 48/50 | 49 | 43
    Chickorita: 45/65/65 | 58.33 | 49/49 | 49 | 45
    Cyndaquil: 39/43/50 | 44 | 52/60 | 56 | 65
    Totodile: 50/64/48 | 54 | 65/44 | 54.5 | 43
    Treeko: 40/35/55 | 43.33 | 45/65 | 55 | 70
    Torchic: 45/40/50 | 45 | 60/70 | 65 | 45
    Mudkip: 50/50/50 | 50 | 70/50 | 60 | 40
    Turtwig: 55/64/55 | 58 | 68/45 | 56.5 | 31
    Chimchar: 44/44/44 | 44 | 58/58 | 58 | 61
    Piplup: 53/53/56 | 54 | 51/61 | 56 | 40
    Snivy: 45/55/55 | 51.67 | 45/45 | 45 | 63
    Tepig: 65/45/45 | 51.67 | 45/45 | 45 | 45
    Oshawott: 55/45/45 | 51.67 | 55/63 | 59 | 45

    Bulkiest -> Chickorita | Least Bulky -> Chimchar, Cyndaquil, and Charmander
    Best Offense -> Torchic | Least Offensive -> Sinvy and Tepig
    Speediest -> Treeko | Slowest -> Turtwig
    Best HP -> Tepig | Worst HP -> Charmander
    Best DEF -> Chickorita and Squirtle | Worst DEF -> Treeko
    Best SPDEF -> Bulbasaur and Chickorita | Worst SPDEF -> Chimchar
    Best ATK -> Mudkip | Worst ATK -> Tepig, Snivy, and Treeko
    Best SPATK -> Torchic | Worst SPATK -> Totodile
  9. Professor Science

    Professor Science

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    Thanks Dietcoke101, this is actually really awesome. I'll refer to this every time I start a new game :)
  10. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    Oh your welcome! :D
  11. Wobbanaut

    Wobbanaut

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    But tepig evolves into something with 123att and 100Spa
  12. Dietcoke101

    Dietcoke101

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    @wob, Yeah I know! But I was just doing research for the first stage form of each starter! That's just like how the fire starters start low base stats, then become the strongest overall base stats!

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