SPOILERS! Pokemon Sun and Moon Full Game Datamine General Discussion Thread

[Siggu]

So, I'm not quite sure what to make of Hyper Training. According to Serebii the changes made are superficial, but the boost is factored in battles? At the risk of sounding completely brain-dead does this make Hyper Training useless or not because the wording makes it seem like you can keep your needed Hidden Power type and not have to worry about the drop in your stats.

Hyper Training makes your Pokemon perform as if it had an IV (or all of them) at 31.

The "superficial" part comes from the fact:
1) By setting all "apparent IVs" to 31, the Hidden Power type does not change. Say, you can now have an HP Fire Timid Latios with flawless stats, which was impossible before.
2) When breeding, the Pokemon's real IVs, not the ones you turned into 31 through Hyper Training.

 

[Primal Ivysaur]

Hyper Training makes your Pokemon perform as if it had an IV (or all of them) at 31.

The "superficial" part comes from the fact:
1) By setting all "apparent IVs" to 31, the Hidden Power type does not change. Say, you can now have an HP Fire Timid Latios with flawless stats, which was impossible before.
2) When breeding, the Pokemon's real IVs, not the ones you turned into 31 through Hyper Training.

Thank you so much, that makes much more sense now. I wonder how getting bottlecaps will work though. Either way Sun and Moon are really solid entries so far.

 

[R_N]

Thank you so much, that makes much more sense now. I wonder how getting bottlecaps will work though. Either way Sun and Moon are really solid entries so far.

bottlecaps are high tier rewards, basically. You can sometimes fish them out of bubbling spots near the battle tree & a few other Poni island spots, get them sometimes (rarity unknown) from the ... haunted house....cave exploration....thing in the festival plaza, or trade 30 shards (of one color) for one in the festival plaza. Golden bottlecaps are entirely chance based: get one from a specific lottery in the plaza as the top tier prize, find one on the Rare items pokepelago hunt or the interesting item hunt.

 

[Kadabrium]

Have heavy ball capture mechanics been changed? Is it still theoretically possible to catch beldum in one?
Back in gen4 they had a 1/255 final rate (also applies to raikou, etc) but the shake number distribution seems to follow the norm. In this version the ball always break instantly.

 

[Muhznit]

So... is it just me, or does the Macho Brace outright not exist anymore? None of the datamine pastebins indicate any hints to where it may be...

And are there no changes to the way items work whatsoever? I mean you'd think that the Metronome would get a boost or something after all this time.

 

[Dizzybanana21x]

Is it possible that using a pokemon traded from another reigion with SOS shiny hunting increases the odds of finding a shiny.
I traded for a JPN Kadabra over GTS in order to be able to level it up fast enough (it has synchronize),
and I've used it in all my shiny hunting.... and i've had insane luck... I rarely EVER go beyond a chain of 100 before finding a shiny...

This is pure speculation on my part, but I watch streamers getting shinies on 300-800 encounters, and I've never had to wait that long.

 

[The Great Roydinho]

Is it possible that using a pokemon traded from another reigion with SOS shiny hunting increases the odds of finding a shiny.
I traded for a JPN Kadabra over GTS in order to be able to level it up fast enough (it has synchronize),
and I've used it in all my shiny hunting.... and i've had insane luck... I rarely EVER go beyond a chain of 100 before finding a shiny...

This is pure speculation on my part, but I watch streamers getting shinies on 300-800 encounters, and I've never had to wait that long.

im willing to bet a limb thats just a coincidence. MM only works in breeding

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Have heavy ball capture mechanics been changed? Is it still theoretically possible to catch beldum in one?
Back in gen4 they had a 1/255 final rate (also applies to raikou, etc) but the shake number distribution seems to follow the norm. In this version the ball always break instantly.

A 8/64 HP Beldum (lv27, 31 IV iirc) has a 1.8333^4% chance of getting caught in a Heavy Ball, if Serebii's anything to go by.

Beast Ball is something like 0.5^4%.

Lel.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So apparently every Pokemon have a low poly idle, walking, and running animation (some running animations even being unique, a LOT of work was put into these).

 

[Siggu]

Aren't some of those running animations the one used in Super Mystery Dungeon? Considering the fact they have recycled the models and animations in all the Gen VI games, GO and now Sun/Moon, it would not be surprising.

Wait... I just got something curious about the last Pokemon games on the 3DS:
- Super Mystery Dungeons features a world split into four isles.
- Sun and Moon feature a world split into four isles.

Quite the coincidence :P

 

[R_N]

Aren't some of those running animations the one used in Super Mystery Dungeon? Considering the fact they have recycled the models and animations in all the Gen VI games, GO and now Sun/Moon, it would not be surprising.

There's probably some overlap, but I don't think they all are. Some pokemon are probably designed to move in those ways in the first place. Still have to recreate the animations for the low poly models, anyway.


also pulling out SMD real quick and comparing it with some of the animations, they definitely aren't puled from this game. Slaking, for example, is almost totally different

 

[Codraroll]

Cross-posting this from the Annoyance thread, since it is probably more on-topic here:

I know we're all saying it, but how hard are the new Gen VII Pokémon really to come by in a regular playthrough? Since there are only 81 of them, I think an in-depth analysis wouldn't be too hard to conduct. Heck, let's do colour codes.

Green - Ordinary, easy-to-find Pokémon. A 20 % encounter or more, unlimited availability.
Yellow - Not using this colour, since it's awkward to read.
Orange - Somewhat uncommon, but not rare. Between 5 and 20 % encounters, or common only at limited times of day.
Red - Rare. 5 % encounters or rarer, but technically of unlimited availability.
Blue - Requires some hoops to go through before it can be found (smashing rocks, fishing, etc), but not awfully hard to come by if you try.
Purple - Requires you to go through hoops and wrestle with RNG. Appears less than 25 % of the time after hoops are jumped through, or is otherwise limited.
Dark Purple - The ones that make us curse Game Freak - Jump through hoops, wrestle with the RNG, still unreasonably rare.
Brown - One-off gift Pokémon, may exclude other Pokémon. Prime example from past gens: the Odd Egg in Crystal. Or, you know, starters.
Black - Unavailable until post-game, if available at all.

As for evolutions, I'd really like to use colour codes there too. Would the following be confusing?

Black - Evolution by level-up, straightforward unless otherwise noted (various minor conditions for level-up evolution) in italics.
Pink - Evolution by friendship
Light Yellow - Seriously, who added this colour, it's completely unreadable. Not used.
Light Brown - Location-based evolution (problematic, because those are late-game)

• Rowlet - Gift, starter
  • Dartrix - level-up
  • Decidueye - level-up
• Litten - Gift, starter
  • Torracat - level-up
  • Incineroar - level-up
• Popplio - Gift, starter
  • Brionne - level-up
  • Primarina - level-up
• Pikipek - Common encounter
  • Trumbeak - level-up - can be found in the wild, common encounter
    
  • Toucannon - level-up
• Yungoos - Common encounter
  • Gumshoos - level-up, but only in the day - can be found in the wild, common encounter
• Grubbin - 10 % encounter on Routes 1, 4 and 5
  • Charjabug - level-up
  • Vikavolt - location-based (Vast Poni Canyon)
• Crabrawler - Occasionally found in berry piles - the few of which respawn at midnight.
  • Crabominable - location-based (Mount Lanakila)
• Oricorio - Common encounter
• Cutiefly - Common encounter
  • Ribombee - level-up
• Rockruff - Common encounter, but in optional side area
  • Lycanroc - level-up, but day/night depending on version - can be found in the wild, common encounter
• Wishiwashi - Common enounter. Forced, even.
• Mareanie - Excruciatingly hard to find, since it's a rare summon for Corsola, which is a 5 % encounter in fishing spots (20 % in rippling spots in MeleMele Sea).
  • Toxapex - level-up
• Mudbray - Common encounter
  • Mudsdale - level-up
• Dewpider - Common encounter, but only in the day.
  • Araquanid - level-up - can be found in the wild, common encounter
• Fomantis - Common encounter
  • Lurantis - level-up, but only in the day
• Morelull - Common encounter, but only at night
  • Shiinotic - level-up
• Salandit - Common encounter
  • Salazzle - Only female Salandit will evolve, and those are relatively rare (3.125 %).
• Stufful - Rare encounter (5 %)
  • Bewear - level-up
• Bounsweet - Common encounter, but only in a small area.
  • Steenee - level-up
  • Tsareena - level-up, but requires Steenee to learn Stomp.
• Comfey - Rare encounter (5 %)
  
• Oranguru - Rare encounter (5 %)
  
• Passimian - Rare encounter (5 %)
• Wimpod - Roams a small area and is easy to find, but a hassle to track down - or charge it with Tauros.
  • Golisopod - level-up
• Sandygast - 20 % encounter in spots of rippling sand.
  • Palossand - level-up
• Pyukumuku - Common encounter (Surfing)
• Type: Null - Postgame
  • Silvally - Postgame
• Minior - Common encounter
• Komala - 10 % encounter on Route 11.
• Turtonator - 10 % encounter, Blush Mountain
• Togedemaru - 10 % encounter, Blush Mountain
• Mimikyu - Rare encounter (5 %)
• Bruxish - 20 % encounter in bubbling fishing spots
• Drampa - 10 % encounter in Mount Lanakila
• Dhelmise - 10 % encounter in bubbling fishing spots - Twice as rare as Bruxish, for reference.
• Jangmo-o - Rare encounter (5 %)
  • Hakamo-o - level-up
  • Kommo-o - level-up
• Tapu Koko - Postgame
• Tapu Lele - Postgame
• Tapu Bulu - Postgame
• Tapu Fini - Postgame
• Solgaleo/Lunala - One forced encounter, forced capture.
  • Cosmog - Postgame
  • Cosmoem - Postgame
• Nihilego - Postgame
• Buzzwole - Postgame
• Pheromosa - Postgame
• Xurkitree - Postgame
• Celesteela - Postgame
• Kartana - Postgame
• Guzzlord - Postgame
• Necrozma - Postgame
• Magearna - Event only
• Marshadow - Event only

So... now I can write a conclusion, I guess. It seems like of the new Pokémon, roughly a third are easy to find, roughly a quarter are relegated to the post-game, and the remaining invoke certain degrees of frustration when trying to find them.

Evolution is rarely a problem, though. There are no new Pokémon that evolve using items of any kind, none require trade, only two that require level-up in certain locations, and the rest are fairly straightforward.

I'd say there are some availability problems, at a glance. If anybody else want to do similar analyses for the other generations, in the games of their introduction, feel free to do so.

 

[R_N]

At least the only pokemon left for post game were legendary pokemon (lunala/solgaleo aside).

It was really goofy how Riolu/Lucario, Emolga & Sychter/Scizor were all in post game areas. Maybe less goofy than when BW2 made Lickitung & Igglybuff postgame lines.

 

[Cresselia~~]

So apparently every Pokemon have a low poly idle, walking, and running animation (some running animations even being unique, a LOT of work was put into these).

I wonder if someone would put all the Pokemon walking running animations into a single video or two...

 

[Kadabrium]

A 8/64 HP Beldum (lv27, 31 IV iirc) has a 1.8333^4% chance of getting caught in a Heavy Ball, if Serebii's anything to go by.

Beast Ball is something like 0.5^4%.

Lel.

It is impossible for the former to be higher than the latter

So apparently every Pokemon have a low poly idle, walking, and running animation (some running animations even being unique, a LOT of work was put into these).

pokefinder

 

[R_N]

pokefinder

Gen 5 didn't bother making over world sprites for all the gen 5 pokemon, I highly doubt they'd go "ok, let's make low poly models with idle, walking & running animations for all 802 pokemon + all forms" for a feature that will probably be dropped the moment we leave Alola.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

It is impossible for the former to be higher than the latter

Heavy Ball is (1 - 30 * 1) = 1 somewhere in the formula, while Beast Ball goes (3 * 0.1 * 1) = 0.3, so I don't see the issue.

 

[Kadabrium]

Heavy Ball is (1 - 30 * 1) = 1 somewhere in the formula, while Beast Ball goes (3 * 0.1 * 1) = 0.3, so I don't see the issue.

In gen4, a heavy ball (when used on a zapdos, for example) would have returned 1 as the modified catch rate regardless of HP/status, as a result of rounded up a negative value. Even in this situation, however, the ball shake count would follow the same distribution as other cases that also set the MCV to 1, for example a basic pokeball against a full hp 3 catch rate pokemon. As the formula goes in gen4, this would mean a 19% chance that the ball would shake more than once.

However, this time there exists no proof whatsoever that a heavy ball could shake more than once when used against a beldum, unlike a beast ball which also would have produced an equal MCR of 0.3>>1. Numerous people have caught base 3 pokemon in beast balls, and if you try it yourself you may well see a couple double shakes within 10 balls, which, if i didnt make it clear already, is how it should be for a heavy ball as well.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

In gen4, a heavy ball (when used on a zapdos, for example) would have returned 1 as the modified catch rate regardless of HP/status, as a result of rounded up a negative value. Even in this situation, however, the ball shake count would follow the same distribution as other cases that also set the MCV to 1, for example a basic pokeball against a full hp 3 catch rate pokemon. As the formula goes in gen4, this would mean a 19% chance that the ball would shake more than once.

However, this time there exists no proof whatsoever that a heavy ball could shake more than once when used against a beldum, unlike a beast ball which also would have produced an equal MCR of 0.3>>1. Numerous people have caught base 3 pokemon in beast balls, and if you try it yourself you may well see a couple double shakes within 10 balls, which, if i didnt make it clear already, is how it should be for a heavy ball as well.

I'll be honest and tell you I didn't understand a thing.

 

[Kadabrium]

I'll be honest and tell you I didn't understand a thing.

The calculations or logic in the greater scheme?

 

[Kadabrium]

To all those quoting previous generation mechanisms and "they shouldnt change because there is no reason to":
Since UB related captures are given a nominal multiplier of 0.1, it is totally reasonable to suspect that the previous lower limit of the integer 1 has now been lifted. If this is really the case, negative catch rates may also be allowed since under the previous scheme both 0.1 and negative numbers would fall under the same category "less than 1"

 

[jordanthejq12]

Would a negative catch rate make capture actually impossible, or just really, really, really difficult?

 

[Siggu]

To all those quoting previous generation mechanisms and "they shouldnt change because there is no reason to":
Since UB related captures are given a nominal multiplier of 0.1, it is totally reasonable to suspect that the previous lower limit of the integer 1 has now been lifted. If this is really the case, negative catch rates may also be allowed since under the previous scheme both 0.1 and negative numbers would fall under the same category "less than 1"

I'll make a completely unfounded hypothesis and assume catch rate is an unsigned number, so it cannot fall under 0.

I'm curious, though, as since the Beast Ball has a 0.1x multiplier on non-Ultra Beasts, how does it work on Pokemon with a Catch Rate below 10?

Say, is it actually possible to catch a Beldum with one?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Would a negative catch rate make capture actually impossible, or just really, really, really difficult?

Yes, if the catch rate goes to 0 or below it would make it so its impossible to catch the Pokemon. "So why would GF ever do that?". Well, if they're feeling particularly sadistic towards the player, if they make a Pokemon with a negative catchrate it'll mean the player would have to find ways to increase that catch rate. Afflicting them with a status condition and/or using a special Poke Ball would be required. And though they haven't done this in the main games, they have done it before in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. Many Pokemon, mainly Legendaries, have negative "Recruit Rates" thus you need to increase them via increasing your level and/or using items. And the developers of the game, Spike Chunsoft, used this to full effect in the original Mystery Dungeon games if you want to recruit a Kecleon:

Kecleon is the hardest Pokémon to recruit in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team, with a base recruit rate of -33.9%. It can only be recruited if the player is level 90 or higher, and if they are holding a Friend Bow. Even after all this, Kecleon's recruit rate is only 0.1%. It is considered slightly easier to recruit in the Explorers of Time, Explorers of Darkness, and Explorers of Sky since the player now has a 0.5% chance of recruiting it at level 90, while holding an Amber Tear/Golden Mask with the "Fast Friend" IQ skill, despite its base recruit rate decreasing to -49.5%.

True this wasn't done by GF, but a precedent had been made so all GF have to do is the math.

I'll make a completely unfounded hypothesis and assume catch rate is an unsigned number, so it cannot fall under 0.

I'm curious, though, as since the Beast Ball has a 0.1x multiplier on non-Ultra Beasts, how does it work on Pokemon with a Catch Rate below 10?

Say, is it actually possible to catch a Beldum with one?

Yes, because its a multiplier and not a subtractor. 3 * .1 = .3. So you only have a .3 chance of catching a Beldum, the Island Guardians, and Necrozma.

 

[Siggu]

Yes, because its a multiplier and not a subtractor. 3 * .1 = .3. So you only have a .3 chance of catching a Beldum, the Island Guardians, and Necrozma.

Well, I was wondering if the number was rounded down :P