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Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

Discussion in 'Smogon Metagames' started by Nexus, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. Siggu

    Siggu

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    Gyro Ball's Base Power is variable, which is not the same thing.

    Generic Z-Moves get their Base Power from the base move. A Base Power of 1 was most likely set to ensure it does not cause weird behavior in case the move were hacked into a moveset, from which they don't have a base move. (Though I'm now curious if a crystal-free Z-Move can be used as a base move for a Z-Move. Say, Shattering Psyche based off Genesis Supernova)

    Signature Z-Moves don't have that issue as they only have one base move - hence, the Base Power is fixed because it does not really cause any difference.
  2. sumwun

    sumwun

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    I'm getting the message that you guys are really not sure what the base power would be? Is it possible to do research on this?
  3. Siggu

    Siggu

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    You hack the Z-Move into a Pokemon.

    The OP leaves it crystal-clear. Check there.
    sumwun and Sondero like this.
  4. Sondero

    Sondero Don't you dare say you'd rather lose
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    All research put into that post have been tested on-cart, so it's a useful and certain way of getting info without having to post to ask here.

    e: sniped
  5. sumwun

    sumwun

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    Sorry for not reading the OP carefully. It was really long, though.
  6. breh

    breh 強いだね

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    actually,

    e: lol triply too slow :(
  7. urkerab

    urkerab
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    Not really a Gen 7 mechanic but what message(s) does Rest result in while Misty or Electric terrain are up?
  8. Sondero

    Sondero Don't you dare say you'd rather lose
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    For Misty Terrain, it's "[Pokemon] used Rest!" followed by "[Pokemon] surrounds itself with a protective mist!" (Source).
    For Electric Terrain, it's "[Pokemon] used Rest!" followed by "[Pokemon] surrounds itself with electrified terrain!" (tested against the Tapu Koko you can catch in S/M).

    Edit: I should clarify, that "[Pokemon]" should have "The opposing" in front of it, if it's the other side attempting to use it
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  9. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 formerly Darklatias92

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    While reading the entry of Ion Deluge, I was wondering... if Ion Deluge is triggered, does a Galvanize Pokémon turn the Normal-type attack into an Electric-type and gain a power boost before Ion Deluge is triggered? Or does the opposite happen and Ion Deluge takes the priority, turning the move into and Electric-type before Galvanize is triggered and preventing the power boost as a result?
  10. Siggu

    Siggu

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    We can't take anything for granted, but judging from what the Sun/Moon interface does, a Galvanized move is Electric-type from the get-go, so it shouldn't be affected by Ion Deluge. Kind of like Hidden Power.
  11. sumwun

    sumwun

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    • Has the order changed for Generation 7?
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  12. sumwun

    sumwun

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    In what order do all the "between turns" things take effect?
  13. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    if you transform into ash greninja can your shuriken hit more than 3 times
  14. Merritt

    Merritt
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    Nope, it's coded to hit 3 times at 20 base power.
  15. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    I tested and it can. When it does the extra hits dont have animation but do deal damage
  16. MacChaeger

    MacChaeger formerly OU banned my masquerain

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    Just so we're clear, did you test in-game or on sim?
  17. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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  18. Merritt

    Merritt
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    When I answered originally I didn't know if you mean Ditto transforming into Ash-Greninja or Greninja with Battle Bond transforming, since it was a little unclear. From the video it seems you mean the first.

    A pokemon when it transforms is still a species identified as the original pokemon, meaning that all things unique to the transformed into species don't apply to the transformed pokemon. This includes form changes, and (in this case) Water Shuriken's base power change and only hitting three times. For that video for example, it's still a Ditto, it just looks like an Ash-Greninja with the same stats as the opposing Ash-Greninja bar HP.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  19. Siggu

    Siggu

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    So Water Shuriken's altered properties are hardcoded to only work on Ash-Greninja?

    That's... weird. Forme-changing abilities being hardcoded to work on only one species is not unheard of, but a move's properties?
  20. SJMistery

    SJMistery

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    If that is the case, the Ditto exclusive items should still work after Transformation or Imposter trigger.
    I will check again once I get my 3DS back by copying a Scarf Pokemon, but I am pretty sure it still stops working after Transform.

    By the way, in Sun&Moon Ditto can spoil the Ability of the opponent in addition to his full moveset. You can do this by checking Ditto's stat changes window, as it will also let you check in the effect of your Ability, probably to help players that run Trace and have no clue of what "Magician" does or something.

    It SHOULD be implemented that all enemy moves and ability get auto-revealed if Ditto switches in and you get the option to attack someone. In other words, if Ditto/Mew/Smeargle transform into a target and are not forced out before you can select another attack or opt to switch out, all enemy moves and Ability, will be revealed to the player, and to keep it consistent, they should show up as revealed on the screen. But if you get forced out immediately afterwards after transforming, you won't have had the option to see the moves and ability, and make them remain hidden. At the very least, you should get to see the ability and moves when checking on Ditto's stats when he is transformed.

    Additionally, Ditto in gen 1, 2 and 4 should be able to access to any move learnable by Sketch, due to the Sketch and Rage glitches on Transform. After all, the Pomeg Glitch is allowed for, among other things, get Belly Drum level 5 Zigzaggon on Little Cup. Why not give Ditto some possible utility with that glitch?
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  21. Merritt

    Merritt
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    Quick and Metal Powder are specifically exceptions, probably because they're exclusive items of a pokemon whose only job is transform.

    Note that the Pomeg Glitch is pretty much exclusive to LC - decided a really long time ago purely for playability purposes. If you check, higher tiers don't actually allow the only implementation of the Pomeg Glitch that's applicable there, namely underleveled evolved pokemon (for example the sim will not validate a level 30 Tyranitar or level 5 Silcoon despite being possible to obtain through the Pomeg Glitch).

    In terms of the Rage glitch it's also hilariously gamebreaking. Beyond just Ditto, any pokemon in gen 4 or earlier who is capable of learning Transform (Mew for example along with Ditto) as well as Mimic, Copycat, Assist, or Metronome (since these could all call transform in gen 4) are capable of learning any move. Regardless, that's getting a little off point of the topic of the thread.
  22. SJMistery

    SJMistery

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    ON TOPIC: Regardless of teorymon, the question that Ditto reveals Ability alongside the moveset still stands as something that MUST be implemented.

    OFF TOPIC: Well, some of us still cling to the hope that some day this exception will be removed and those two items will become viable. In fact, I feel like testing it again regardless. After all, we are talking of TWO items that essentially became obsolete and useless after the advent of Imposter. It only makes sense that sooner or later they will be patched to work regardless. Not even TrollFreak is that evil.

    Plus, just imagine the potential of Quick Powder Imposter: No more need to eat Knock Off to stand a chance against stall teams, being able to freely sweep after copying the Dragon Dance Gyarados, revenging Scarfed pokemon and pokemon with Sucker Punch without any fear...
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  23. Kadabrium

    Kadabrium

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    showdown currently does not allow mimic and copycat to call transform. is this confirmed?
  24. sumwun

    sumwun

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    The guys on Bulbapedia can datamine the Pokemon games. Why does Smogon need to test everything before putting it on Showdown!?
  25. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
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    The guys on bulbapedia are less reliable, and having our own group lets us verify things without waiting however long + lets us check specific interactions.
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