Pokemon that are 'overused' in ubers!

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by X-Act, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    If the OU algorithm is applied to the ubers metagame, this would be the 'ubers OU' list:

    Blissey
    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Dialga
    Giratina
    Groudon
    Jirachi
    Kyogre
    Latias
    Latios
    Lugia
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Rayquaza

    Quite a short list, as it contains only 14 Pokemon. This shows how much more overcentralised the uber metagame is compared to the standard metagame.
  2. nitnit

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    Interesting how only Blissey and Jirachi made it from normal OU. Then again, other than for use in gimmicks via weather, or to capitalize on what is overused in ubers, I can't think of any other pokemon who would perform well at all (except maybe garchomp, though I'm not very sure)
  3. chaos 9

    chaos 9

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    Hm I thought Tyranitar and Metagross would have made it as well. Tyranitar being the only viable sand streamer. Also he can pursuit kills lati@s to open the flood gates for kyogre, an "OU" on that list. Metagross being one of the only reliable counters to deoxys-A. I see a lot of them on teams, but maybe thats missleading.
  4. umbarsc

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    So the following ubers are not "OU":

    - Arceus (obviously)
    - Deoxys
    - Deoxys-D
    - Ho-oh
    - Manaphy
    - Mew

    This makes sense, as these are what we usually classify as "low ubers" (barring Arceus, who we can call the "uber" of ubers).
  5. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings

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    Isn't terribly bad, considering that there are 19 Pokemon in ubers including Wobbsfatass and fewer truly viable OU Pokemon in ubers. It's surprising that Scizor is absent, since I always thought him to be an ubers staple due to his resistances, but bleh. I'm glad Mewtwo is still up there =)

    Interestingly, looking at the standings, this list cuts off at exactly #14 (Jirachi-Mew). 14/19 is about 74%, so it is pretty accurate.
  6. Sovereign

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    It appears like the uber metagame is still being played incorrectly judging by the fact that blissey is ou in ubers.
  7. Warthog

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    surprised Chomp wasn't on that list.. it actually does some damage in uber do it being Dragon and Ground. But a lot of things outspeed it I suppose so it makes sorta sense.
  8. RBG

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    THat doesn't mean anythings wrong, that just means blissey is a great wall in both OU and Uber, without breaking the Defenition of 'Uber'
  9. Caelum

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    A lot of the "ubers" on the list were no surprise, but I was surprised by the OU's on the list, or the lack or them, with the exception of Blissey. I was a little puzzled by Jirachi. I occasionally see it but I don't see it as much as Mewtwo or Darkrai. Maybe I'm just not paying attention enough. I'm surprised Metagross or Scizor isn't on the list as they seem pretty common and have a lot of usefulness in ubers.
  10. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I think what Jeb means is that Blissey isn't a good wall in ubers? I kind of disagree, I mean I would never use it, but it does provide a solid switch in for Lati@s (especially considering some people have resorted to running hp fire like lamers in order to take on scizor/jirachi/gross). Though the fact that it's setup fodder in an increasingly offensive uber metagame is definitely a huge downside.
  11. Sovereign

    Sovereign

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    I semi supported the use of blissey, but the second event moves were cut out, I don't think blissey should be as popular as it is right now. And jabba is right about blissey's downsides, which usually leads to problems.
  12. umbarsc

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    I don't have much uber experience, but wouldn't ubers using it as "set-up fodder" be concerned about Thunder Wave or Icy Wind? Toxic would also be annoying.
  13. Fabbles

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    I personally love Wish Blissey and won many games with it. After event moves were banned, I questioned its use but found that Aromatherapy and Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock / Toxic still have their uses. Also, with the rise of all attack Latios and Scarf Palkia lately (not too mention the ohh so popular Scarf Kyogre), Blissey gets the job done.

    The lack of Scizor and Metagross is somewhat disappointing, but as more people get into Ubers I think more will start to use them. I could also see a rise in T-tar and Heracross, but we'll see.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

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    Well maybe setup fodder isn't putting it the right way. There are just so many Pokemon in Ubers that completely shrug off what Blissey can do to them while hitting her extremely hard. And there are still more Pokemon in Ubers than OU that can completely use Blissey for setup fodder no matter what set she's running.
  15. Paltheos

    Paltheos

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    This topic is not the ideal place for a comparison of uber usage statistics, but devoting a new topic for them is unnecessary. I'm posting them here instead.

    Note: Some relatively common pokemon fall below the 14 mark, so I have extended the list, arbitrarily, to include the top 20.

    Comparison of changes in weighted usage statistics from May to June

    1. Kyogre (3841535 points) (=)
    2. Groudon (2812595 points) (=)
    3. Darkrai (2537247 points) (=)
    4. Deoxys-A (1956766 points) (+5)
    5. Dialga (1852690 points) (=)
    6. Rayquaza (1842061 points) (-2)
    7. Palkia (1677416 points) (-1)
    8. Latias (1379766 points) (-1)
    9. Giratina (1285112 points) (+4)
    10. Mewtwo (1249396 points) (=)
    11. Latios (1195636 points) (+3)
    12. Blissey (1073133 points) (-4)
    13. Jirachi (1017555 points) (+3)
    14. Lugia (977787 points) (-3)
    --- "OU" cutoff
    15. Scizor (898922 points) (+6)
    16. Mew (781900 points) (-1)
    17. Metagross (535527 points) (-5)
    18. Forretress (521478 points) (+1)
    19. Ho-oh (458784 points) (+4)
    20. Shedinja (380101 points) (-2)

    Since people are interested: Tyranitar (233746 points) has dropped 6 spots this month, fom #17 to #23 and Garchomp (136820 points) has dropped 3 spots, from #29 to #32.

    Changes in Leads from May to June

    There were few significant changes in leads from May to June, so I won't provide a list, but there were some highlights. Kyogre (1110), Darkrai (1099), and Deoxys-A (792) continue firmly holding on to the top three spots. However, the number of uses for lead Darkrai and Deoxys-A largely remain the same while those for Kyogre, on the other hand, have dropped by over 500 uses since last month. Dialga (378) has risen from #7 to #4, beating out Groudon by nearly 100 uses as a lead.

    Edit: I changed my mind. To most people who care, anything I would have to say on the subject should already be apparent. Furthermore, while I believe I understand many of the reasons behind this month's stats, I still need more experience before I can make a comprehensive review of changes in the month.
  16. IggyBot

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    Tyranitar, Celebi, Scizor, Metagross and Garchomp are five that I can list right off the top of my head, when thinking about OU pokemon in ubers. Blissey is definitly not one of the first things I think about though, considering so much can get in on her.

    Out of all of the "OU" ubers, the following really don't give a shit about Blissey at least part of the time, and can come in and set up freely:

    Dialga
    Giratina
    Groudon
    Jirachi
    Kyogre
    Latias
    Latios
    Lugia
    Mewtwo

    And if these pokemon can't always come into Blissey 100% of the time with certain sets Blissey sure as hell can't switch into many of them either.
  17. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Just so the Scizor fans know, it is just outside the 'OU' ubers at #15.
  18. Mystica

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    Kyogre seems to be on every single Ubers team. It's very annoying. And lately Jirachi has been on the arise, with the protect/toxic/wish/uturn nonsense. A few months ago Metagross was everywhere, i'm surprised it wasn't on that list.
  19. Fabbles

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    Out of all of those Pokemon, the only one that is absolutely guaranteed a free switch in BU Dialga. Every single one of those pokes are afraid of either Thunder Wave or Toxic. And if Blissey does not have one of those, it means it is most likely Calm Mind, which beats: Giratina, Jirachi, Kyogre, Lati@s, Lugia, and non Taunt Mewtwo. Blissey does a fine job as a simple supporter as well, getting SR and Aromatherapy.

    I imagine Jirachi is on the rise after Blissey lost wish, and it also does a decent job at countering Scarf Palkia.

    Lately, it seems that Deoxys-F is being used more either as a Starter to scare away most versions of Kyogre and Darkrai or as a late game cleaner in place of Rayquaza.

    The most surprising thing to me is the rise of Giratina on the usage list. The main Sleep inducer in Ubers, Darkrai, can 2HK0 Giratina so I am not sure why people use it as their Sleep Talker.
  20. moi

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    Well, there are a few things that can switch in. Kyogre with Calm Mind outstalls Blissey as it sets up if Blissey doesn't have Calm Mind (9/10 times). Without Wish, Blissey can't stall out Groudon with Toxic, and itself fears Toxic and Earthquake from Groudon.
  21. Fabbles

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    Yes, I am well aware. Iggybot's case however was that Blissey is merely set up fodder and all of those pokes could get in with relatively no threat to them. Blissey toxics Groudon on the switch, and then switches out herself. Blissey should be played as either a pure supporter or a simple Calm Minder; the former should never be staying in for more than 2 turns, while the Calm Minder should make sure threats like Groudon are taken care of first.
  22. IggyBot

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    Didn't I address this? The others I listed can easily come in on one of Blissey's attacks OR Softboiled. And even then, Refresh Lati@s (VERY good), most Kyogre, Groudon and Jirachi get free switches most of the time. Groudon is ONLY afriad of Toxic, and Jirachi is only coming in to pass a Wish to another pokemon, or heal itself. It's not like Toxic, Ice Beam, or any move besides possibly Thunderwave cause any stress to the Jirachi user.

    Basically, many of the pokemon I listed can come in regardless of the threat of TWave / Toxic, and even then, it's not like Blissey is going to be spamming those attacks all the time.
  23. Fabbles

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    I think the problem that people have at looking at Blissey is trying to label it as the "wall everything" that it is in the Overused metagame. Jeb has pointed out in other topics that trying to do that will cause many situations like you have pointed out above.

    However, it functions greatly in the supporter role, allowing your teammates to take an easy advantage. Lati@s using Refresh opens up opportunities for a free switch from the rest of your team. Aside from CM RestTalk Kyogre, it isn't switching in. I won't go into more possibilities, but Toxic and Thunder Wave will frustrate Groudon and Jirachi (respectively) to no end.

    I am trying to say that Blissey should rarely be staying in for more than 2 turns or be attacking. Blissey's most useful roles in Ubers are to support the team by throwing around status, curing the team of status, and taking on the most popular versions of Kyogre and Lati@s.

    Am I denying that Groudon and Jirachi are great switch ins for Blissey? No. But, I am denying that any Pokemon can come in on Blissey without being threatened by a crippling status move.

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