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All Gens Pokemon Through the Ages: Charizard

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. BKC

    BKC autumn leaves
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    in dpp uu, kabutops was one of the most terrifying rain sweepers, and one of the reasons why rain was one of the most dangerous playstyles in the tier. although rain teams are rarities in ou, kabutops is still very scary and although it's hard to pull off, it has the potential to run through teams.
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    in addition to what bkc said about kabutops's role in dpp uu, the prehistoric menace also has a niche in adv ou as a flail sweeper, which is a really interesting little set. basically the idea is to sub down into salac berry range, but using an odd number of hp so that you go to 1 hp instead of 25%, meaning flail is at max power, nabbing a swords dance along the way if you can. then you start laying into your opponent with 200 base power flails. rock slide covers gengar (and dusclops), at +2 it's a straight ohko on gar and even at +0 it does a good bit more than half damage, meaning if you're behind a sub or get a flinch your sweep is still preserved. as you might have noticed, healthy bulky waters and skarmory shut this set down, so for it to be fully effective, you need to have spikes support and possibly a magneton as well. the set really sucks against stall, but against offense it can and will 6-0 teams.
  3. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    In RBY he's crap. Not even good in UU, and I'm pretty sure he's not allowed in NU (not that I even play UU, let alone NU).

    In GSC, he's still garbage in OU, but he's an interesting choice in UU, being a solid counter-offensive check to the #1 Physical threat in the tier, Dodrio. Problem is, he struggles to muscle past Slowbro even after a SD, which makes him less effective as a sweeper than, say, Pinsir, and there's plenty of other stuff, such as Slowbro and Magneton, that can also switch into Dodrio and are more useful in general.
  4. .Maguss.

    .Maguss.

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    I remember when Slowbro was BL and I swept teams with Kabutops. Slowbro is a huge pain for it in GSC OU due to Thunder Wave, and Ancientpower failing at 3HKO it AFTER a Swords Dance most of the time. But it still one of my favourite UU mons, and still a pretty solid choice for a UU team, being one of the best Dodrio counters.
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    RBY Kabutops has no moves that can use its incredibly powerful Rock STAB, and the lack of an Electric immunity makes it harder to switch in than Rhydon or Golem. Its stats and typing are good, it just doesn't have a way to make use of them effectively.
  6. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    In GSC UU, apart from what Jorgen said, Kabutops also has issues with bulky grass types such as Bellossom and Vileplume, but nonetheless it can be a very potent and dangerous sweeper as it is one of the fastest SDers available (is it the fastest in UU?), while being an effective Dodrio check if you are tired of Magneton. Not to mention, AncientPower luck can be game breaking!

    In RBY UU Kabutops is unfortunately outclassed by Kingler in a metagame full of water-types with powerful STAB attacks and with some EQ users as well, not to mention the quadruple Mega Drain weakness. While Kabutops gains useful resistances to Explosion, Hyper Beam, Drill Peck, as well as a 4x resistance to fire-type attacks, these advantages don't really make up for the aforementioned disadvantages. Explosion and Hyper Beam aren't as big is UU as in OU at all.
  7. Awoken

    Awoken

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    Kabutops in ADV is notable as it is the only viable Sub/Flail user that is immune to sandstorm.
  8. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Kabutops is not the fastest SDer in GSC UU. That title belongs to Scyther. 2nd fastest is Pinsir.
  9. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    Kabutops in rby is way better than you guys are making out. Mostly because of how awesome slash is.

    Slash rules.
  10. Dre89

    Dre89

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    Kingler is still better than him in RBY though, which is why he's hardly ever used even in UU.
  11. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Venusaur is another consistently UU Pokemon. So, what kept it out of OU for four gens straight, and what were its best sets, roles, counters, etc. throughout history? Remember, its place in both OU and UU is open to discussion~
  12. Borat

    Borat

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    I think venusaur is a solid bl in gsc. Able to go both ways as a physical sweeper and a special sweeper (with special sweeper being the more threatening of the two, obviously). It's definitely overpowered for UU.
  13. BKC

    BKC autumn leaves
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    in dpp uu, venusaur can do whatever it wants. this includes [but isn't necessarily limited to] scarf, special offense, mixed, swords dance, physically defensive, specially defensive...yeah. one of the premier bulky water checks, probably the biggest reason why toxic spikes aren't that popular. nearly impossible to safely counter. it was even suspected, but thankfully not banned. easily the best mon in the tier.

    it's also very good in ou. toxic spikes absorption is really useful. it annoys the crap out of everything with sleep powder + leech seed. roar can also be effective if you're willing to give up either a stab or hp fire. i haven't tried the sd set yet but i can imagine it'll rape unsuspecting heatran too bad it loses to skarm really hard but it sounds fun at the very least.
  14. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    Gen 1 Venusaur has a niche on being a sleeper faster than Exeggutor being able to take on several threats thanks to high critical Razor Leaf, which OHKOs Golem and Rhydon and easily takes Starmie out. Moreover, its Swords Dance Body Slam hits really hard and can paralyse, so overall a reall useful Gen 1 OU mon. The only problem is facing Gengar as a sleep lead, which needs to rely on 55% accuracy, or Jynx, which is less common anyways.
  15. Crystal_

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    Hey, not to be an ass but:

    1. Hypnosis has 60% accuracy, not 55%
    2. Jynx is about as common as Gengar, if not more
    3. SD/RL/SP/HB > SD/RL/SP/BS. Body Slam just doesn't hit hard enough.

    Unfortuantely for Venusaur in RBY though, Victreebel outclasses it in almost every way. Victreebel can abuse Wrap, paralyze stuff with Stun Spore, and has a higher attack stat.
  16. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    RBY Venu struggles to compete with Vic for the same niche since its speed advantage is negligible whereas Vic gets better Attack and move pool. Venu ain't bad, Vic is just better.

    GSC Venu is a nice off beat gimmick as a special sweeper, although it is still quite mediocre in OU and must choose its hidden power wisely. Also it is kind of shit as a physical sweeper since it gets no STAB, although I guess it could work with hp fire for skarm.

    In both game boy gens, Venus is too good for UU, but has a common, mediocre typing, average stats, and a limited move pool holding it back from OU.
  17. Dre89

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    I thought hypnosis had 65 accuracy?

    Yeah, victreebell competely outclasses it in OU due to having wrap and stun spore, and having better stats in more important areas (ie. attack). Sleep powder stun spore razor leaf wrap is better than anything venusaur can do, because let's face you're not sweeping with venusauf. Even then kingler is a better SDer.

    Venusaur does get browny points though for not being 2HKO'd bu tauros' blizzard-hyper beam.
  18. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Eh, it's arguable. Swords Dancers need a free turn, and Venusaur can get one with Sleep Powder.

    Victreebel is still better though.
  19. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Sleep rarely works that way in rby though.
  20. Dre89

    Dre89

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    Usually something will be slept by then, although I have slept a few tauroses before with victreebell.

    Outside of sleep, kingler is better though. He has better match ups with the normals, and his biggest counters like starmie can be removed with explosion.
  21. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Rarely, yes. But it can work.

    (I've seen Venusaur and Victreebel as leads before - it's rather annoying if your own lead is Egg.)
  22. Omanyte

    Omanyte

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    Venusaur would be a great pokemon in RBY if it weren't for the poison typing. Sleep powder, Swords Dance and STAB Razor Leaf is nice, but weakness to Psychic and Ice with no useful resistances kills it.
  23. Borat

    Borat

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    Motion for next week's pokemon to be OU from gen 2 instead of non-existent from RBY and forevers.
  24. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Seconding this motion. Talking about something like Raikou would be a little more interesting.
  25. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Yeah you are pretty much running of RBY Pokemon to talk about, although I'm surprised Charizard was never mentioned.

    As far as Venusaur goes, didn't really come into its own until 4th gen. Great in 4th gen UU, and the fact that today in our current gen hes OU is just awesome.

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