Pokemon Throwback - Gen IV Tier Shift

EV

Banned deucer.
GDI. Belly Drum is banned. I don't feel like making provisions for who can keep it, etc, and I don't really care if Linoone gets shafted.

Basically, Gen IV STABmons will be a lot less about setting up and a lot more on using new attacks. I will write up a new OP tonight or tomorrow.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
So Flygon can now use Dragon Dance, which is super neat. Most notable Dragon Dancer outside of Dragonite due to most of them being Ubers. Speaking of Dragonite, it now has a solid flying STAB in Brave Bird, which is pretty cool. Normal-types are also pretty rad here, although not as good as in Gen 5/6 STABmons, Gen 4 still gives them plenty of offensive and defensive tools like ESpeed (+1 Priority tho), Lovely Kiss, Rapid Spin, Recover, and Explosion (!!!).

The lead meta has also become intersting - Lead Weavile can now put people to sleep with Dark Void, Lead Aero can now actually use Rock Head with Head Smash and Brave Bird, Azelf didn't really get anything but its still neat. Something that might be cool is Trick Room Metagross (kind of like TR Bronzong but with much more fire power)


Metagross @ Life Orb / Macho Brace
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Meteor Mash / Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Explosion / Bullet Punch

Pretty much just Bronzong's offensive TR set, but with Metagross instead. I chose Meteor Mash over Gyro Ball in this situation because I don't know if Metagross is slow enough for Gyro Ball to out-power Meteor Mash (Meteor Mash has 100 BP in Gen 4, remember). Macho Brace is an option if you really want to use Gyro Ball, but I think LO is generally better. If it does though, it's the obvious first slot. Meteor Mash is also cool for some neat attack boost shenanigans. EQ is basic coverage, and its really good coverage. Last slot is either Explosion for one last powerful blast or Bullet Punch for extra utility outside of TR.

Also I'm assuming Darkrai will remain banned? Or are we letting that thing lose here too?
 
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EV

Banned deucer.
So Flygon can now use Dragon Dance, which is super neat. Most notable Dragon Dancer outside of Dragonite due to most of them being Ubers.
We're still using current STABmons standards/bans with a few exceptions (noted in OP.)
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
We're still using current STABmons standards/bans with a few exceptions (noted in OP.)
Interesting. DD Garchomp is going to be pretty rad then (SubDD 2strong - watch out for Skarm tho). This also means there's now no reason to use DD Flygon, which makes Flygon a sad dragon.
 
  • Shift Gear and Gear Grind are from Gen V, so Scizor will not have the unmatched power that came along with that combination anymore. It still gets the fairly strong Pin Missile to abuse with Technician. The old mechanics of resisting Ghost and Dark might make up for the other losses, too.
Pin Missile was still piss weak in gen 4. Bug Bite is stronger than 4 hit Pin Missile.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Voting is over lol

Also, keep gen IV ubers banned imo. Right now you're saying they shouldn't be banned because they're not banned in regular STABmons, which is basically like saying unban them now cause they aren't banned in gen VI.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Voting is over lol

Also, keep gen IV ubers banned imo. Right now you're saying they shouldn't be banned because they're not banned in regular STABmons, which is basically like saying unban them now cause they aren't banned in gen VI.
I unbanned them because they were banned in Gen IV due to how they played in that gen alone, notwithstanding all the new strategies and threats that STABmons brings about. Certain things stayed banned like Shaymin-Sky for example because it has Spore, Serene Grace Air Slash and Seed Flare, with high Speed and Special Attack. With the powder mechanics absent in Gen IV, it's even deadlier than it would be in Gen VI. Box legendaries are just too powerful under any circumstances really.

The others dropped because I want to see how they function against Pokemon who gained lots of new tools to take them on. If Garchomp, the Latis, Manaphy, etc still prove to be overpowering for this generation, I will reinstate bans after the ladder starts.

Plus I'd be more inclined to institute quick bans if I saw some evidence to the contrary, instead of just "ban." If Mamoswine is unable to revenge the Dragons properly or Wobbuffet makes the game too uncompetitive, they'll go. At least show me something please (and this is not just for my benefit, but for other players, too, who may be interested in why things were decided.)
 
One thing that I noticed is that Blaziken is allowed and it gets 2 great STABs in Close Combat and Sacred Fire. Not to mention that Fake Out + E-Speed Ambipom is a threat out of the leadoff position.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
My reasoning is that gen 4 was already a heavily offensive metagame. STABmons adds even more to offense and gives little to stall strategies (especially in gen 4). To me, unleashing ubers and giving them extended movepools would make the meta far too unbalanced and make stall nearly impossible. The only defensive pokemon released from ubers is pretty much just mew. (deo-d is used to stack hazards, and wobbu is more for revenge killing purposes).

Sure, the threats can be reliably checked by offensive threats like mamoswine, but this means the meta will be entirely offense based. A balanced metagame should allow all team archetypes to be successful to at least some extent without making arbitrary bans or taking away from the "goal" of the meta. In this case the bans are not arbitrary because they are uber in gen IV, and the meta is based on OU, not ubers.
 
One thing that I noticed is that Blaziken is allowed and it gets 2 great STABs in Close Combat and Sacred Fire. Not to mention that Fake Out + E-Speed Ambipom is a threat out of the leadoff position.
But Blaziken loses Speed Boost so Infernape>Blaziken
 
Honestly, this meta will be way more defensive than gen 5, and stall was definitely possibly in that meta. With the loss of things like shell smash and so on, it will be much easier to wall out potent threats, and stall them to death.
 
shed shell skarm says hello to that. If stuff like dragmag becomes too popular, there will be ways to answer it. Stall managed to work in gen V. it will be fine in gen iv
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I still think people are missing the point. I took the current banlist from Gen VI and put it in Gen IV. Porygon-Z and Blaziken were unbanned because the former lost SS/Boomburst and the latter lost Speed Boost, the two things that made them Ubers.

I did this last month with Balanced Hackmons when I put the current banlist in Gen IV too.

That is the point of this project. To transport an OM as is back to another generation. Minor adjustments were made where necessary. Please don't come and complain, especially when it hasn't even started yet. And maybe you missed the post where I said I'm open to changes if the need arises.

Now my mantra has always been if you don't like it, don't play it. Any posts from now own for the sake of detracting from the metagme will be deleted.
 
I know it's not even a day in, but me and the Reptile saw each other on the ladder, and we agreed there are some really broken stuff in the meta right now, these being Garchomp and the blue shadow tag blobs.
With Garchomp Sub DD does everything that Sub SD did back in dpp, but better, and the sand veil roulette combined with his (relatively) outstanding bulk, he easily can win games single-handedly when brought out at the right time & will probably end up being the same centralizing force in this meta as he was back in dpp.
Wynaut & Wobbuffet are just inherently broken without team preview. They are designed to be able to punish their opponent just by winning a 1v1 situation, giving the person who lost the original 1v1 not only momentum, but also a free setup opportunity that could possibly cost them the game. In Gen V, with the advent of team preview, you could plan ahead for them by making sure that by avoiding having important counters/ setup fodder left in on possible wobbuffet switch-in opportunities, but without it you are completely blindsided by them.
 
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canno

formerly The Reptile
On another note, Bright Powder needs to be banned too. Bright Powder + Sand Veil is ridiculous.
 

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