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SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by DHR-107, Aug 6, 2017.

  1. Zowayix

    Zowayix

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    First two things I noticed:
    • Now we know these are both Necrozma forms, not Solgaleo/Lunala forms. I remember the majority of day 1 speculation actually being the latter.
    • The names of both forms are specifically being moved forward in time to meet the other (sun/daytime -> twilight, moon/nighttime -> dawn). They could've done backward in time ("dawn" is usually associated with daytime more than nighttime, and vice versa with "twilight"), but they didn't. Wonder if this means anything.
  2. Theorymon

    Theorymon I'll be your 1-up girl!
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    I'm surprised they're doing something so similar to what B2W2 did with Kyurem. Hopefully the end results are better though lol.
  3. Worldie

    Worldie

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    To be honest the whole "one legendary merging with the other" doesn't look like a bad design idea, per se, all depends on both the final results stats wise, and story wise.

    As I said, I at least hope there's *something* behind this and not another random person who decides "hey let's destroy the planet because yes"
  4. Siggu

    Siggu

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    Whoever didn't see this coming, raise your hands.

    ...

    ...

    ... uh, no one?

    Well, there's nothing to say but that I hope there's more info yet to be seen in this issue... and let's hope this is not all they are going to show in tomorrow's Nintendo Direct.
  5. Worldie

    Worldie

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    Well brother, the main deal is that there's USUM infos on Coro Coro that's coming out, potentially more than just the Necrozma thing, which cushions the fact that lot of people were sort of scared to still have absolutely nothing and end up with an USUM that's boring or unjistified expense.
    jordanthejq12 likes this.
  6. 13_luckynumber

    13_luckynumber

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    That Colress cameo in SM suddenly seems a lot less than just a cameo with this new info. I wonder, at least story-wise, if the principle of this fusion is the same as the Kyurem one.

    Also, imagine if the fusion with Lunala has an ability that combines Shadow Shield and Prism Armor?!? The bulk would be crazy
  7. Johta

    Johta formerly Corrin

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    So wait, that means Necrozma absorbs Lunala/Solgaleo and controls it like a parasite controling its host? Man, that's fucked up. Kyurem's case was kind of fine because they were all originally one, but wow.

    I don't like it, honestly. Now it really sounds like a rehash of B2W2. It would've been much better if those were alternate forms for Lunala and Solgaleo instead of Necrozma. However, it makes me wonder just whose are those eyes we see in the background of the boxart since now we know those are not Necrozma's.
    Mq and Death Phenomeno like this.
  8. Worldie

    Worldie

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    Well consider that USUM is not a followup from S/M but is an alternate reality, so things aren't necessarly going to be the same.

    Surely, the cameos from Grimsley and Colress suddently feel way more... interesting.
    Mq and jordanthejq12 like this.
  9. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

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    So, first things first, not one to brag, but literally five minutes and my presumptions were correct, I'll take this moment to say Called it!

    Now, to business. The forms being confirmed as necrozma forms, to me is a cop out, we're redoing BW2 here and to all the arceus forms I hope USUM is as good as they were. So these being necrozma forms mean that previous speculation of the cover art is flipped on its head almost, as so previously on this thread we speculated the eyes in the light on the cover art were that of some divine, light necrozma. So does this mean that the eyes on the covers are those of the legends which necrzoma has taken the form of? I'd hope so, the idea of a smaller weaker/stronger form of the SM cover legends I think would be a nice tie in to their already unique status as the only evolving legenedaries. The idea that maybe Necrozma feeds off their light/darkness to leave just the essence of what they were whilst necrozma transcends to some ultra being (eyyyyy jokes made) would be quite fun and conducive to, in my mind, a more intriguing plot, either maybe an earlier revision or later version of the DNA Splicers which get enhanced due to Colress' ongoing research on them perhaps? (I too think and dearly hope with the number of pastiches to BW2 that they'll do it properly and have more cameo's/ actual character depth/involvement)

    My general thoughts for the moment, feel free to tear this apart.

    Final word: Dawn and dusk... sounds familiar... maybe, a fourth lycannroc really is gonna come
    Final final word: the lost Silvally returns with the event? (wistful thoughts of a plot being rounded out nicely)

    Edit: Can't help but feel we've been given nothing but reassurance we're not gonna get too wacko of a learnset ,their name and the fact it's necrozma not Solgaleo and Lunala. Also with this info being leaked, I'm gonna say prepare to be disappointed with the Nintendo Direct, the most we'll get is maybe, just maybe these Necrozma's abilities, past that just recap on the Lycannroc and Kommo-o releases, maybe Mimikyu's z move as well which its bound to get
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  10. Kiga

    Kiga

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    Either that, or Necrozma will absorb and reflect the light given off by Solgaleo or Lunala. Its principle design is a light prism, after all.
    Pikachu315111 likes this.
  11. Worldie

    Worldie

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    I personally suspect that the shiny Sylvally might have something to do with the famous 3rd Type Null that we know nothing about, and might potentially have something to do with USUM storyline, that is, implying Gladion still gets a Type Null in this version (What if the 3 Type nulls for example go to Lusamine and her sons?)

    As for Lycanroc, I don't think there'll be a "Dawn" form since Dusk is a event only not normally obtainable, unfortunately.
    Mq and TheGreatSplurge like this.
  12. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

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    With lost silvally I was implying the third type: null, but yeah, and for continuity's sake I can't not see gf hit the event button a second time for dawn lycannroc
    Mq likes this.
  13. Worldie

    Worldie

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    It is not impossible definitely, but seeing Dusk Lycanroc will be the "release gift" which has both Lycanroc's movesets combined and an actually useful ability to go with it, I would not know how a "Dawn Lycanroc" would manage to have anything to make itself special yet not just a clone of the other form.
    Mq and TheGreatSplurge like this.
  14. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

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    True true, plot twist, Dawn Lycannroc is the third Silvally o.0

    But yeah I understand where you're coming from on this, although highly unlikely I still hold out hope lol
  15. Merritt

    Merritt

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    [​IMG]

    Didn't see this image in the thread yet, most of this is just a big picture of the three legendaries, but there's two little screenshots on the right and left that show what looks like a cutscene of Necrozma reaching out and grabbing Solgaleo/Lunala.

    Kyurem vibes intensify.

    Also the red and black portal thing in the background of those two looks a lot like the massive portal in the sky we saw on the region map.
    The Idealistic, Mq, Codraroll and 7 others like this.
  16. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

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    That is a find and a half, can't tell if they're facing toward or away from necrozma, just a minor detail, but yeah leans more towards the necrozma sucking the life force of the legends over dna splicer work imo, anyone else willing to chip in?
    Zowayix likes this.
  17. BPGXMG

    BPGXMG

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    Looks more to me like parts from Necrozma are assembling around them.
  18. Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111
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    So the "new" Pokemon are a fusion of Necrozma with Solgaleo/Lunala. In other news we're also allowed to choose the playable characters gender and have the choice of picking from three Starter Pokemon!

    Okay, sarcasm aside, this does clear up somethings about the new formes. Pretty much they're pulling a BW2 Kyurem, they are formes of Necrozma after somehow fusing with Solgaleo/Lunala. In addition Necrozma will be learning the Signature Move of the one it fused with, once again much like Kyurem (question is does it keep the moves or loses them after de-fusing. Kyurem kept the signature moves so I'm guessing the same for Necrozma, curious how that would affect move set suggestions for it and its formes). Kind of sad my idea of Necrozma unleashing its true form by attaching its armor onto Solgaleo/Lunala giving all of them new forms was false, but this case they only need to make stats for two Pokemon instead of three (of course that does bring up the question what is that light Pokemon we see than if its not Necrozma's true form?).

    Speaking of stats, curious how that'll work. Kyurem's stats were balanced so it didn't favor Physical or Special, that way when it fused it'll skew in the favor of the dragon it absorbed:

    Normal Kyurem: 125/130/90/130/90/95//660
    White Kyurem: 125/120/90/170/100/95//700
    Black Kyurem: 125/170/100/120/90/95//700

    However Necrozma's stats do skew (a mix of offensively Special and defensively Physical): 97/107/101/127/89/79//600. Now yes, it honestly doesn't matter what Necrozma's original stats are and have them reflect Solgaleo/Lunala's with the excuse it's possessing them so using their strength. Still, just seems odd they made Kyurem's stats balanced as they intended on it fusing while not with Necrozma. Also, how big would the stat increase for Kyurem's forms be? Will they pump it up to 700 BST like with Kyurem? Finally, would Necrozma gain the Abilities of Solgaleo/Lunala or keep Prism Armor? Kyurem had no problem adapting the Ability of the absorbed dragon has it just had Pressure, but with Necrozma having a Signature Ability and it still keeping its armor parts its a toss up what they may do.

    That's all I really got to point out, onto comment responses:

    CoroCoro: Pfft, you want us to spoil everything? Here, some more info on something you obviously know but with some more clarity.

    Though this does bring up a point with it now revealed Necrozma is getting Solgaleo/Lunala's signature moves: is Solgaleo & Lunala getting anything special? While Reshiram & Zekrom wasn't given anything else in BW2, they had two Signature Moves each and Kyurem only copied the "Fusion" one. However, Solgaleo & Lunala only have one signature move and now it's no longer signature. Now if they decide to have Necrozma keep Prism Armor I guess that's one way to keep Solgaleo & Lunala special... but then this comment made me think. Okay, sure, Necrozma may now get their Signature Moves... but what if Solgaleo & Lunala get a Z-Move using their now former Signature Moves, thus creating a new Signature Move for them. I'm calling it now, Solgalium Z and Lunalium Z are coming!

    I wished they used the DNA Splicers, however context is important so they'll probably have another way for them to fuse. With Necrozma appearing at the Alter of the Sunne/Moone maybe it'll be a location specific thing just to make it different from how Kyurem needed an item (though that might be a pain next gen as they'd either need to include a similar location in all future games or create an item for it anyway). It would be easier to make a new item in that regard, something like the Prism Absorber, a Legendary artifact/item from Ultra Space that traps all light and revealed to have come from Necrozma.

    That image is on the main site, I posted it a few pages back:
    [​IMG]

    I did notice the names were "swapped", though it wasn't until your and other's posts did I realize they are the event that ends the part of the day that the celestail bodies Solgaleo & Lunala represents. I'm not quite sure what this means, I'm iffy on it meaning Necrozma being the ender of the world but then again Groudon and Kyogre almost caused it so wouldn't be that farfetched.

    BTW, Bulbapedia is saying Necrozma's Solgaleo form is "Mane of Dusk".

    Well it is an Ultra Beast...
    [​IMG]
    They are a little messed up (though then again real life is just as, if not more, messed up).

    That would be interesting, especially if they kept their typing and Abilities, though I have a feeling if they wanted to do more than two new forms they would have made these forms for Solgaleo & Lunala and given Necrozma a new form. Being Necrozma's forms are in their "light forms", my guess Solgaleo & Lunala are forced to enter into their light forms so that Necrozma, a Pokemon who absorbs light, can possess them thus forcing them to remain in their light forms.

    While they have an easy design for Dawn Lycanroc (a Midnight with probably the Midday's spike collar, also maybe purple colored). That said, from what we know about it and that Dusk is an Event Pokemon to coincide with Ash having one in the anime, I don't think so. The naming is just coincidence and in context means two different things: Lycanroc Dusk is the "inbetween" form of Midday and Midnight thus there only needs to be one, Necrozma Mane of Dusk has to do with dusk being the transitional phase that ends the daytime when the sun sets, something that is reflected with Necrozma Wings of Dawn (end of night and moon sets).

    Shiny Silvally has to do with promoting the upcoming TCG set, nothing with the games. The mystery of the third Type: Null is still a mystery, and if this game does take place in an alternate timeline will at least remain a mystery in the SM dimensions.

    Their facing toward Necrozma's "give me a hug/grabby grabby" stance. All this really tells me is that this fusion is probably not consented upon by Solgaleo and Lunala. However this would probably radically change the story as I don't think Necrozma has the same plans as Lillie does and don't think Lillie would like the Pokemon she treats like a child being possessed.

    Though all this brings me back to Necrozma being an Ultra Beast that came to our world in ancient times. Could Necrozma being here has something to do with Solgaleo and Lunala? Could Necrozma have been waiting all this time for a Solgaleo or Lunala to appear so it could possess them? If so, what for? To simply return to Ultra Space? Are Necrozma natural predators of Solgaleo and Lunala?

    Honestly, I think the news bits we're all waiting for has to do with the story and not any new mechanics as right now that's the biggest question which could answer some other questions. "What if they want to keep these questions a mystery". I'm not asking for a plot synopsis, I'm asking just to know what mindset should we be going into this: is this a expansion/revamp of the story in SM or is it a completely new story using same characters and locations. I would think it would be a bad marketing decision to not inform players who, so far, are pretty much seeing this as just the same game as SM except with Necrozma bits not to go into some story details with what should we be expecting is different from SM to justify me buying the game.
    The Idealistic, Mq, ssjjynx and 3 others like this.
  19. Prof. Almeida

    Prof. Almeida

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    I've seen this mentioned before, but where exactly did we get the info that it's an alternate reality?
    Mq, Codraroll and girazard like this.
  20. TheGreatSplurge

    TheGreatSplurge

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    Once again the depth you put in is greatly appreciated. The Legendaries getting z moves is a shout and a half, I'd stand behind that. The Lycannroc thing though was wishful thinking on my part.

    Now to the fun part, so theorying here, or openning up possible theorying, If Necrozma absorbs Solgaleo/Lunala completely then what are the eyes in the cover arts? Because they were a large point of conversation last round when this was openned up and I feel people are sleeping on this fact again, I understand that it was discussed into the ground last time but if we throw off the idea of some part of solgaleo or lunala being left behind is the shinning a completely new mon? Or some new form of a major UB? (wouldn't understand why they would box art it) or is it a third Necrozma form? General spewing of thoughts here. The whole Necrozma eats light and forcing solgaleo and lunala into their ultraspace forms is a solid idea. Again just reacting off of this, feel free to tear it apart :)
    Pikachu315111 likes this.
  21. Worldie

    Worldie

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    Iirc it was simply in the announcement of USUM. They specifically said it's not taking place "after" but in an alternate version of Alola, where people and events may and will not be the same as we witnessed.
  22. Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111
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    Which is also how I took it, but as many pointed out you can technically call any version of its generation an "alternate version" of the events that transpired. Personally I think them specifically pointing that it takes place in an alternate Alola instead of an expanded upon Alola means they're going for the alternate reality thing (especially since they set it up with you able to go to the alternate version of your game at the Alter), but once again vagueness prevents a definite answer.

    Thank you! :)

    The Lycanroc Dawn isn't a wild of an idea, just if you think about how they're handling Lycanroc Dusk and the meaning behind with how they're using the theme of dusk/dawn puts holes in that theory.

    I'm still going to say that light being is Necrozma's "true" form. It's a light creature that feeds on light and can possess Solgaleo & Lunala by using its light trapping body. Think of it like how Zygarde's Cores are the real Pokemon but it uses the Cells to create a body to control and fight with.

    But at this point any theory has merit as long as there's reasoning to back it, only official source will prove you right or wrong.
    Prof. Almeida likes this.
  23. Worldie

    Worldie

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    To be honest all the screenshots and videos shown from Nintendo also clearly show the same places with different things, including same NPCs (like the dragon trainer) doing different things, to me it looks pretty evident that's it's simply an alternate reality, in same fashion as ORAS are an alternate universe of Hoenn compared to RSC
  24. Leader Wallace

    Leader Wallace

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    I'm curious to see how the plot goes for the Kyurem Rip Off Necrozma fusions goes. I wouldn't be surprised if Lusamine tried fusing them thanks to her Ultra Beast obsession similar to what Ghetsis did. Though I wonder if Necrozma's type changes or Prisim Armor changes. I assume the fusion mechanics to be the same as Kyurem.
  25. Worldie

    Worldie

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    I'm of the opposite opinion: that Lusamine is not the bad guy...girl...woman....whatever in USUM, but someone else will be. We memed Colress obviously due to the similarities and the fact that there is also a cameo of him in s/m saying he's "there to study Alola and UBs", but it would be pretty... "boring" design-wise if Lusamine is again the bad person, everyone would be expecting it so there'd be no surprise or discover.

    It would be far more entertaining if the bad guy is someone else. Not necessarly someone we know from S/M, or someone who in S/M was actually a nice person.

    DEXIO, I KNEW IT, IT'S YOU AND YOUR DAMN WHIMSICOTT
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