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Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.
Sorry man, kinda sleepy... :P
Right, got it. Torterra's useless
Any verdict on Rhydon or Zweilous? I analysed them fairly extensively in an earlier post, but noone really seemed to notice.
Breludicolo: I was recommending the use of eviolite Zweilous. This set, being very bulky, does not require trick room at all (well it helps I suppose) and can afford a miss on occasion. Since posting I have tested a bit and have been pleasantly surprised. Just make sure to support it with Spikes. Here is the set:
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Dragon Tail
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Fire Fang
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
edit: Blah my bad. Rhyperior takes SE hits ever so slightly better (I must've read some incorrect calcs somewhere). I think it might be good to have a mention of Rhydon somewhere in Rhyperiors analysis though. Also maybe you should add it to the list.
Sorry jc, I totally missed your excellent post :(
Zweilous gets the go ahead
Rhydon though, while its defenses are better, I'm not sure it can necessarily take hits better due to the lack of Solid Rock. Can you provide some calcs, like Rhyperior vs. Rhydon? Obv stuff like Close Combats and Earthquakes.
hope this helps:
I'll throw up my 2 cents on Rhydon vs Rhyperior with some calcs (save my buddy there some time) While the physical tankiness increases with the evioloite the special tankiness actually lowers
a scarfed jolly garchomp (just for reference's sake) hits impish 184 Rhyperior (the typical OU tank build) at 35.6-42.6% never 2HKOing while the same build Rhydon's is BARELY better at 35.4-42.2%. So we improved by .2-.4% ....yay I guess
Here's the problem
Im again using a bit of an overkill with slowbro (again for reference's sake)
a physically defensive slowbro hits that same rhyperior for 100.7-119.4% but hits Rhydon at 105.8-126%. These differences are so close but here are the kicks: no leftovers or any interesting items as it requires the evioloite and it is worse at variety tanking - something keeping Rhyperior from being a true tank.
I was voting for Rhydon as he was one of my main 6 in the old red blue days - alas his numbers do him no justice.
Hope this helps
Solid Rock, better attack and Leftovers make Rhyperior much better. Rhydon is also limited to a defensive set because it is tied to Eviolite, whereas Rhydon can also run Rock Polish / Choice Band. Rhydon's abilities are all offensively geared too, which really sucks for it
Requesting the removal of Raichu. After a bit of testing, I think it deserves an analysis.
Ordinarily, i'd say its outclassed by the likes of Raikou, Zapdos etc. But its new dreamworld ability (Lightningrod), when paired alongside encore AND team preview gives him way more chances to set up. Encore is the sole reason to use Raichu now, because it lets him set up on a ton of Pokemon he wouldn't be able to otherwise. It even lets him checkmate Chansey. For example, if Chansey comes in on Nasty Plot, it needs to seismic toss or turns into set up fodder. T-wave Chansey's get destroyed if Raichu switches on a predicted T-wave. Oh and if its been weakened, Chansey just outright loses because it can't softboil. The ability to switch into stray Thunder Waves is a big deal, because Raichu necessarily need Focus Blast to beat Registeel anymore. Just like in gen IV its a decent sweeper / support Pokemon hybrid thats in a good speed tier and he has a lot of opportunities to set up. Its not "great" though and it can't take a hit at ALL.
I've got a log to get my point across.
Edit: Oh and Ursaring should be removed from the list. SD Quick Feet Ursaring is an incredible sweeper.
The last three posts on Rhydon weren't very helpful because all three posters kept confusing Rhydon and Rhyperior (at least to me). Just some straight Rhydon vs. Rhyperior calcs would be nice (both SE and non-SE).
PK, if you want to do Raichu go right on ahead.
Ursaring I'm a bit iffy on. I can see it being able to sweep late-game no problem, but there's too much going against it in the early- to mid-game. I'd hate to give something a set simply because it works late-game (when nearly any dedicated sweeper is good late-game if you get the conditions right).
SD Samurott gets the go ahead from me too. Being able to 2HKO Tangrowth is pretty damn impressive.
These values run rhydon and rhyperior at impish 244/184/80 defenses
Medicham@CB Adamant HJK vs Rhydon@eviolite : 92.2% - 109.2%
Medicham@CB Adamant HJK vs Rhyperior@Solid Rock : 93.1% - 109.7%
Dragonite@LO Adamant Outrage vs Rhydon@eviolite : 30.8% - 36.7%
Dragonite@LO Adamant Outrage vs Rhyperior@Solid Rock : 41.9% - 49.5%
Rhydon Better physical presence all around
Magmortar@LO Timid HP Grass vs Rhydon@eviolite : 151.5% - 178.6%
Magmortar@LO Timid HP Grass vs Rhyperior@Solid Rock : 143.1% - 168.8%
Celebi@LO Timid Psychic vs Rhydon@eviolite : 62.1% - 73.5%
Celebi@LO Timid Psychic vs Rhyperior@Solid Rock : 78.5% - 92.6%
Rhydon better special presence without SE but worse when SE
he therefore loses the option of leftovers or any other items
OK those percentages aren't big enough to warrant an analysis. Even though Rhydon takes that Outrage ~10% better, it then doesn't have Leftovers, thus making Rhyperior superior.
Rhydon will not get an UU analysis.
Exactly my point. Ty and I hope those numbers helped.
Put Cottonee on the list.
Can we give klingklang an analysis? Not for offensve sets, but because he's a steel type trick roomer? He provides really important resists for a trick room team. Access to volt switch also allows it much needed momentum.
klingklang is awful. you are reccomending it for a purpose that makes it even more awful than it already is.
Uxie is better for the role of fast trick roomer.
No, i'm recommending it for the position of a niche trick room setter providing ridiculously useful resistances and the ability to maintain offensive momentum.
Base 90 speed doesn't make it look like a good candidate for Trick Room. To boot, Bronzor is better at setting up Trick Room. That said, what about Bronzor?
Wish to write for Riolu, Pranster + Copycat + Phazing move
I do not believe that Prankster is released, unless something changed very recently.
Oh sorry for the trouble, and anyway where do you check whether it is released?
it shows all the ones released AND the ones that are breedable.
I'm in no position to even pretend I'm an expert at Pokemon, but I noticed Crustle has an analysis in the OU forum - and while I know it's not OU, if it has an analysis there, shouldn't it have one here?
Thanks, SuperJOCKE. I'm sorry for wasting time here.
The thing is, base 90 can be made slow. It's not all that fast. Likewise, access to volt switch and actually not useless offensive capabilities easily differentiate itself from Bronzor. Likewise, it NOT sharing the psychic typing that practically every other setter has is the whole point. It only has 135 speed with a minus nature anf zero ivs.
Frankly, I can't think of any reason to use KlingKlang in a meta with Registeel. Trick Room or no-- and I can't think of any reason why you would need its resistances over the bulk of Deoxys, Cress, or Uxie. It also has no way of moving to a teammate either-- no explosion. Uxie or Victini on the other hand, could use a fast U-Turn to get a teammate in without exposing it to an attack, or Uxie could use momento. Klingklang just seems bad.
I'd have to see some really good arguments for Bronzor too. It just looks extremely unimpressive. I'd rather use Claydol really
I reject both unless provided with some REALLY good argument.
Big NO to Riolu too.