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Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.
Agreeing with all of those, but Poliwrath has already been declined.
Wait, going back to Lanturn.
I don't have a whole lot of time to write this up, but SubCharge Lanturn is ridiculously good, even in OU. As long as Chansey is removed from play by something like Dugtrio, Subcharge lanturn can run through the opponent quickly. That's something that separates it from other pokemon in the tier.
Oh woops, my bad, I didn't realize Poliwrath already had a rejection >.>
Edit: Lanturn is just too underwhelming, even in UU. It doesn't sport Rotom-w's nice immunity to ground, and can't set up reliably, especially since Charge Beam is a very unreliable set-up move. Its offenses are subpar and its defenses are as well besides HP. Also, its hella slow, so not much sweeping is gonna get done there.
Ninjask should definitely have an analysis. Sceptile probably should, and is definitely a strong choice in UU-- it's biggest problems being somewhat outclassed by Shaymin and Celebi...
Mandibuzz is... ok... I've seen it, but I've never been really impressed tbh. I'd say it should get an analysis eventually, but it's not really a high priority poke...
Poliwrath we've been over.
Lanturn is always a fairly respectable Poke, but I haven't really seen too many in UU, and it's not a huge player in the meta. Kind of in the same boat of priority as Poliwrath and Mandibuzz-- it's there, and it's ok, but it's not anything we NEED to get on.
Crygonal works well as a support poke and special wall. Stat wise it the same SpD as Blissey (135), a very quick base 105 Spe, and respectable base 95 SpA. Its Hp is only base 70 and Def is only but that can be remedied by the fact he gets Recover and Acid Armor/Reflect. His support movepool is really where he shines though. He can DS, haze, Rapid Spin (he is weak to SR but immune to spikes and toxic spikes thanks to levitate) and can even Toxic Stall. Below I did some Damage Calcs agains some common threats.
252 Hp / 252 Def Bold@leftovers:
252 Atk Adamant Honchcrow@Life orb Sucker Punch: 71.51% - 84.01% 2HKO
Same Crow with +2 Def (Acid Armor or Reflect up): 35.76% - 42.15% 3-4HKO
252 Atk Adamant Guts Hariyama@Flame Orb Close Combat with +2 Def: 60.17% - 71.51% 2HKO
252 Atk Adamant Heracross@Choice Band Close Combat +2 Def: 62.79% - 74.13% 2HKO
252 Atk Jolly Heracross@Chioce Band Close Combat +2 Def: 56.69% - 67.15%
252 SpeA Modest Sheer Force Nidoking@Choice Specs Flamethrower: 74.42 - 87.79% 2HKO
252 Hp / 252 SpeD Calm@leftovers:
Same Nidoking as above: 55.81% - 66.28% 2HKO
252 SpeA Modest Shaymin@Life Orb HP Fire: 31.4% - 36.63% 4HKO
I think he deserves an shot because of the amount of options he has for support and his potential as a strong special.
I was trying so hard to figure out why those calcs were so convincing...
Every one of them has +2 def and does not take into account SR damage.
Realistically, you're never going to get to use Acid Armor before something OHKOes you. When a pokemon has a defence of 30 (iirc), it's not able to pull off defensive sets unless it has obscene amounts of HP.
Even then, what is it doing with 252/252 Bold? as a rapid spinner, it's outclassed. As a screener, it's outclassed. By the virtue of its typing, it is inherently outclassed.
Ludicolo is synonymous with Rain teams. It should definitely be on the priority list.
I VERY much agree with this.
Cryogonal-- no not really... This thing is just not good enough (for now). 95 is still weak, and its physical bulk is just bad (252/252 bold? You're pretty much sacking any reason to use it). Rotom-F is a much better sweeper, and everything else is better at support.
I haven't seen enough rain around to really weigh in, but there are enough non-weather teams that I could see rain succeeding (and ludicolo is awesome in rain, and still a decent bulky water-type out of it). If Oglemi gives it the okay, I'd say add it.
I think Leafeon deserves an analysis, since it is kinda fast and can beat a lot of UU's current walls (bulky waters) and can beat Tangrowth with X-Scissor. It can also baton pass Wish and its swords dance boosts if it has to gtfo. Even more, Registeel is not as common as last gen, which is its main counter. Sure, there's Victini, but it already beats a lot of stuff, like Sawsbuck, who is used a lot.
I'm not sure of Leafeon's offensive capabilities. Last gen, it was awesome in gen 4 uu because it could simultaneously sweep and BP its SDs and had a higher attack than Venusaur (and Power Whip is not as reliable as Return, but w/e). Its speed tier was also perfect for the tier that it was in; in a metagame populated largely by pase 80s and one very big base 90, 95 was a huge advantage.
But now, it seems outclassed by Celebi, IMO. Bar a few very specific things (slightly higher attack and... yawn and wish I guess?), Celebi seems far better. Plus, the presence of Escavalier (and, as you noted, victini) make it far more lackluster.
For reference, Leafeon's Returns are 6.7% stronger; its Leaf Blades are almost exactly 20% stronger than Celebi's Seed Bombs; Celebi is far more Specially bulky and has more physical bulk by an extremely small amount.
Suggesting Murkrow for an analysis. It has good defenses with an Eviolite and an amazing ability in prankster. Priority Featherdance, Calm Mind, Taunt, Roost, Toxic, Mean Look, Perish Song and Haze are all extremely useful. I've seen it used to great effect and I think it deserves an analysis.
Agreeing with mooo. Run any four of those moves (and possibly night shade) and you have a truly annoying pokemon.
Arguing for Clefable here. I'm shocked that no one else has caught on to using it. It's still an incredibly sturdy special wall, and its doesn't get raped by SubCMers + Toxic Spikes like Chansey thanks to Magic Guard, and Encore is still annoying as hell even after the nerf, especially if you catch something off guard. It can CM Psyshock and beat pretty much every Calm Minder/Quiver Dancer in the UU Metagame (excluding stuff like CM Stored Power Espy), and can be extremely painful for stall to take out once you get rid of Hitmontop/Haze Milotic.
Clefable already has an analysis, it's in Copyediting :P
I searched for it but couldn't find it.
GtM, I think you found the 4th gen UU analysis.
Clefable is a mixed bag. It possesses the godliest movepool ever and the best ability ever, but is let down really hard by its rather.... meh stats and unspectacular typing.
plus, heracross just laughs at it.
good to go
Leafeon, Mandibuzz, and Cryogonal I'm going to hold out on for a bit. Leafeon because Celebi/Sceptile > Leafeon, Mandibuzz because it is pretty meh from what I've seen and really it loses to most other defensive Pokemon one on one (Deoxys-D in particular though there are more), and Cryogonal because it's a freaking Ice type. I have seen Meru use Cryogonal to some success, but overall it's pretty underwhelming too.
EDIT: Also Chansey > Clefable
I agree, your post needs moar CB Double-edge though.
It also got Unaware this gen(unreleased though ;( ) which is neat.
Does Magneton Deserve a Spot?
It has a niche for trapping Steels.
Magneton can potentially trapping and KO-ing your opponent Annoying Steel Types that don't carry a Fighting, fire or ground move, like Magnezone in OU
Potentailly taking out Foes like Empoleon, Escavelier, Durant, and even Registeel if Magneton carries a Air balloon or magnet rise.
It even Speed ties with Bisharp if Bisharp happens to max Speed EV. It'd come down to a coin flip to who hits first with brick break or HP-fire and Magneton Resist Suckerpunch, if Bisharp decides to go for reliable damage, if they know they can not out speed Magneton.
Magneton's only competition in UU trapping is Wobbuffet and Dugtrio.
Wobbuffet is a different Beast all together
While Dugtrio is very frail can can't really switch into anything that isn't a electric attack, and used more like a revenger.
The only thing Dugtrio is better at doing or just as good as doing in terms of taking out steels are Cobalion and Empoleon (although Empoleon has access to Aqua Jet but it's rarely used) Dugtrio won't be KO-ing Escavelier, Durant, Registeel unless significantly damage or Bisharp who has priority sucker punch.
Dugtrio obviously traps everything else better that doesn't Fly, Levitate, carry a Air Balloon or has access to Baton-Pass and U-turn
What about Bouffalant?
Although Sawsbuck does a similar job with Sap Sipper and has Greater Speed, Bouffalant has a Higher Attack and bulk and doesn't suffer 5 extra weaknesses from a secondary grass typing.
And Bouffalant has moves Sawsbuck could only dream of like Payback and Pursuit.
And with the Removal of Drought, Sawsbuck is likely to fall in usage as previously Sawsbuck was most likely used to leverage Chlorophyll.
Bouffalant can come in and wall, while gaining an attack boost from most of the Grass pokemon threats like Celebi, Shaymin, Roserade, Tangrowth, Abomasnow or anyone carrying a grass move like Venemoth's sleep powder.
Pursuit is especially interesting as it put Celebi in a checkmate position, especially if bouffalant is carrying an choice band and received a attack boost from celebi's grass moves (like leech seed or leaf storm)
It can also pursuit the many frail sweeping ghost type like Mismagius if they don't have Will-o-wisp.
and even if you don't pursuit, with a choice band and and a attack boost from Sap Sipper Combined with it's signature Stab Move Head Charge, it will do a lot of damage.
Other notable mentions I can think of...
It's has access to Spore, The only other pokemon that have it in UU are Smeargle and Parasect, not much competition there, it also has Clear smog to Counter pokemon that may try to set up on it. I'm not very familiar with this pokemon so maybe someone else could expalin why it deserve a UU analysis.
Deserves an UU analysis just to exploit Hail with Ice Body and reasonable good bulk.
Is a maybe for me...I'm kinda split whether or not it should deserve a UU Analysis
Compared to other Physical walls, the 1st that come to mind are Tangrowth and Registeel.
Weezing is used entirely differently with it's move pool that has Pain split, will o wisp and Clear-smog/Haze and only 1 weakness being Psychic which can be supported with a dark type pokemon like Bisharp.
But then the likes of Dusclops/Dusknoir comes to mind with better bulk and similar move pool.
But Weezing has the advantage of better typing and ability and leftovers, can't be toxic stalled if you're comparing it with Dusclops... hmmm...
I'm surprised it's not on the list, anything full evolved pokemon with speed boost, proabably deserve a UU analysis.
Works well together in the sandstorm with Hippotas support, not to mention it Storm drain gives it a Water Immunity and raising it's Special Attack.
Walrein and Sharpedo are on the list.
The rest are a big no from me for now. As you said, most are kinda outclassed by other Pokes already on the priority list, so they can wait a little bit.
Amonguss and Cradily got OU analysises, for Christs sake. Are you telling me in UU there is no niche for them?
There is, but I want to focus on the important Pokemon for now and get them done so that they can be ready for when the site finally gets updated. I don't want to waste time on niche Pokemon for now.
If you want me to explain I can.
Amoonguss, while bulky, is fucking slow and gets ass raped by every bird in the tier (Honchkrow, Staraptor, etc.). Cradily needs infinite sandstorm to be useful, and that's not as common as it is in OU with Tyranitar and Hippowdon available. Here we have to rely on Hippopotas (though he isn't too bad).
I can do without the condescending tone too.
I thought Bouffalant was a solid choice... ah well
I believe Bouffalant would be better then Sawbuck but I guess that base 95 speed makes all the difference, even though most of the grass types it switches into will likely have a move to counter other grass types like HP-fire/ice or in Abomasnow's case Blizzard.
I guess I can only pray for Bouffalant usage to rise and Swasbuck to fall this month, Last month Statistic ranking of #16 was pretty high even if it was related to drought abuse.
Ok thats understandable. Hopefully though its not totally denied for a later analysis.