1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Some Person

    Some Person

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    62
    Why is Klinklang on the list? It has an (approved) OU analysis (here) and though it has a horrible physical movepool, it has a great boosting move in the form of Gear Shift, which is basically an improved Dragon Dance. Klinklang is fairly bulky as well, and he can put full investment in HP and still outspeed several pokemon after a Gear Shift. Also, Klinklang has a 100 BP physical STAB that while not completely accurate, has the rare ability to break through Substitutes, sashes, and Sturdy. Either Klinklang should be allowed an UU analysis, or the OU analysis should be rejected (the analysis is already done, by the way). Also, if you chose to refuse Klinklang, please state why Klinklang is not viable in UU. Additionally, there are several other pokemon here that have completed OU analyses (such as Carracosta) who are on the "unfit" list for UU. It might be a good idea to either state why these pokemon deserve an OU analysis but not an UU analysis (for example, Jumpluff was allowed an Ubers analysis but not an OU analysis), or to talk to the OU QC team to take down the analyses for pokemon like Klingklang or Carracosta, or to allow these pokemon an UU analysis. Carracosta is quite a good Shell Smasher in the tier, and though he seems completely outclassed by Huntail, Gorebyss, and Omastar, he has access to Aqua Jet, Earthquake, and Stone Edge (three things which Huntail lacks), and while Omastar shares its typing with Carracosta, Omastar is a special attacker while Carracosta is a physical attacker. While Carracosta cannot SmashPass, Omastar can't either, and Carracosta has slightly more powerful sweeping moves than Huntail, as well as access to priority.
  2. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,126
    Carracosta and Crustle are also on the list and they are way better than Klinklang. And Shell Smash is better than Gear Shift.
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    The very reason Klinklang, Carracosta, and Crustle have an OU analysis is because they have the new super moves, Gear Shift and Shell Smash. They were allowed an analysis way before it was known that they weren't very good Pokemon.

    Now that it is known that they aren't good Pokemon, there really isn't any reason to give them even an UU analysis. Have you tried using Klinklang in UU? It's absolutely terrible. It gets walled by including, but definitely not limited to, Registeel, Arcanine, Empoleon, Cobalion, Dusclops, Chansey, Zapdos, Rotom-H, Deo-D, and Dusknoir. Now, if and when it gets Wild Charge, then maybe we'll talk. But for now it doesn't, so it won't get an analysis.

    As for Carracosta and Crustle, they are probably the worst Shell Smashers other than Magcargo and Torkoal. Not getting Baton Pass is a HUGE deal. And the reason why I don't have Carracosta is because it is almost entirely outclassed by Kabutops. Sure, being able to go mixed sounds like a good argument, but then you gotta realize that if you invest anything in both attack and special attack, you leave Carracosta freaking slow as hell. Even after a Smash, it's still gonna get outsped by a large portion of the tier, and Aqua Jet isn't really going to save it. Crustle I have the same kind of argument.

    Now, if you could provide logs to show that Carracosta and Crustle are worth having UU analyses for, then maybe I'll reconsider. But until then, they're staying on the list.

    Klinklang though is never getting an UU analysis, I don't give two shits that it has an OU one.
  4. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,126
    Heh heh, I was just giving Some Person here two other example of two Pokémon who got an OU analysis that's on the list and are better than Klinklang. Sorry for making you think otherwise, as I would never use those two in UU myself.
  5. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,142
    while combing through the list, I noticed you misspelled Lopunny.

    when can we expect to see the full list of new pokes to get analyses on the reservations page?

    anyway, until the next DW expansion, I'd argue that this list is pretty much done for now.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,622
    I'd argue that Braviary's choiced sets are reason enough for it to get a UU analysis. I'll admit it isn't exactly the ideal Staraptor replacement, but taking a banded Brave Bird to the face, as evidenced by the now-banned Staraptor, isn't exactly ideal for walls such as Milotic. Granted, SuperPower is inferior to Close Combat, but Braviary still has that powerful Fighting-type option with a one-shot personage.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    Braviary is just too slow imo. Base 80 Speed is just not ideal anymore.

    Superpower is very nice though.

    If you could provide logs to show that Braviary is worth it, I'll let it get an analysis, but for now I see no reason to use it over Swellow.
  8. pie cream

    pie cream

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    241
    Braviary has more power (base 123 to swellows base 80), has more bulk ( 100/75/75 to swellows 60/60/50), has a way to hurt steels and is not taking extra damage every turn it comes in.
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    Swellow is also almost twice as fast. And, the difference in base Attack is kind of negated by the Guts boost and the power level of Facade.

    The bulk doesn't really matter than much imo.

    Sure putting the hurt on Steel-types is nice, like I said, but I'm not convinced that Braviary is good enough.
  10. pie cream

    pie cream

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    241
    Ok, I understand.

    Also maybe give eviolite gurdurr some love
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    about gurdurr, I did, I'll add a list of approved/unapproved eviolites later
  12. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,142
    ok I'm being nitpicky as hell but

    why is mesprit now allowed? Healing Wish and 5 more base SpA is literally all it has over Mew.

    edit: ok, forgot about levitate; still don't feel it's amazing though (especially since a lot of its sets can be out statted by its brethren)
  13. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    eh like i said in the other thread, if QC thinks it best they still reserve the right to deny any of the Pokemon I left off the list. I just made a list of Pokemon that are for sure not getting an analysis.

    Plus, maybe the Healing Wish set is really good? idk
  14. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,927
    I used Mesprit on a Hail team one time just because it checked Mamoswine. Levitate is another pretty big selling point. Though I won't necessarily say it's worth a spot over Uxie.
  15. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    No Shuckle analysis? Well, I'm bummed (see previous page for argument).
  16. Scorpio

    Scorpio

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    What about Regice? It's a great special sponge, especially under Hail.
  17. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    About Shuckle and Regice

    Shuckle = big no. Sure it can wall, but that's it. It's like a 10X worse Chansey or Dusclops. It has absolutely no offense, sits there, and doesn't support the team in any way outside of spreading Toxic. And, it's typing is crap.

    Regice = Ice is still a terrible typing, and as long as Chansey, Empoleon, Dusclops, and Deo-D are in the tier, there's no reason to use Regice. About the only set I can see that's worth it is SubCharge, but even then you'd need hail support to make it worth it, and even then I'd much rather just use Walrein, Mamoswine, and Froslass.

    You can also compare Regice to Cryogonal. They are both Ice-type special sponges, but Cryogonal is technically better since it has Levitate and Rapid Spin. Two HUGE advantages over Regice. And sure, Regice has better physical bulk, but they both die to strong physical hits anyway.
  18. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,185
    Mesprit has some inferiority complex to Mew as a bulky offensive Psychic-type, but Levitate is definitely a nice selling point with Mamo around. I'd say it should eventually get an analysis.

    Going to echo Oglemi's thoughts on Shuckle and Regice. Both are definitely very subpar and very outclassed in the UU metagame.

    wtf, why does Cryogonal even get an analysis? it's floating shit frankly
  19. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,274
    It also gets access to Recover and Haze o_0. All the more reason to use Cryogonal over Regice.
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,444
    oh yeah it has those advantages too

    Also like I said Chou, if you want to reject any of those Pokemon you're free to. I've just seen and used Cryogonal successfully, so I was going to approve of the analysis. Plus, Rapid Spin is kind of a big deal with about the only other ones being Donphan, Hitmontop, and Claydol.
  21. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    Wall? Let me tell you, Shuckle can actually create dents this generation! You clearly haven't used a Defence Curl + Rollout Shuckle, have you? It might seem awful on paper but when in play, it can easily cause quite a bit of damage.

    I don't have a good UU war-story but it works quite well supporting the rest of the team.

    To boot, there's the fact that Hippopotas is UU this generation due to Eviolite and Shuckle really appreciates its support. There's also Dugtrio who can trap the crippled foe, snag a couple of boosts and then sweep. Aside from that, what I've said and the war story's all I got to support Shuckle getting an UU analysis.
  22. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,185
    Rapid Spin eh... its special movepool is just really disappointing, and in a metagame where we have Rotom-F and Froslass. I've only battled it twice though, and never used it. If you have had some success with it Oglemi, I would definitely prefer to defer to a QC member with more experience. Looking at the stats again, I don't want to dismiss anything with a 105 speed stat TOO easily.
  23. Scorpio

    Scorpio

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    I'm also guessing that Typhlosion is too much of a one trick pony to garner a UU analysis.
  24. Foxy Grandpa

    Foxy Grandpa

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    I would like to argue for the case of Kingler to be added to the list for analysiseseseses. As the owner of the highest attack stat of any Water Type at Base 130 and access to two great boosting moves in Agility and Swords Dance he is a menace is he is allowed to set up. With good physical bulk and the ability to get great neutral coverage with his STAB Crabhammer and Return hitting everything bar Ferroseed and Shedinja in the UU Tier (I think.) Regardless, I think those attributes make him deserving of a UU Analysis.
  25. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    No way. I'll admit, Scarf Eruption in the sun is devastating when you don't predict it but Drought is banned in UU. On top of that, Charizard has the same stats and a wider movepool than Typhlosion (though, the flying typing hurts).
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)