It's pretty sad I couldn't memorize such a short list.
In any case, SDS's reject stands, so sorry dudes.
In any case, SDS's reject stands, so sorry dudes.
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Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses
- Thread starter Oglemi
- Start date
- Status
I know I'm going to sound like a smart Alec saying this but why did Klingklang (and a few others) get an OU analysis but not an UU analysis?
It was given an analysis because of Shift Gear, before people knew how crappy it was in every other respect.
Gardevoir has been added to the unfit list, as per Snunch's request.
...sorry Oglemi. lol
...sorry Oglemi. lol
Ok...I'm probably gonna get walked on for this one, but I think Ampharos could at least be decent with Trick Room up. It's not that fast (0 speed iv's puts it at 115), it's spATK can be fairly high (choice specs would make it even better). It can be semi-special bulky due to it's good HP stat and slightly above average spDEF. And if none of that is worth it, it can use heal bell and NOT be weak to fighting types like most of the other pokemon that get it.
A few random moves like Power Gem, Cotton Guard, and Dual Screens are also available to it.
Just thought I'd throw some of that out there for Amphy's sake.
Also, will there be RU analyses when everything else settles down?
A few random moves like Power Gem, Cotton Guard, and Dual Screens are also available to it.
Just thought I'd throw some of that out there for Amphy's sake.
Also, will there be RU analyses when everything else settles down?
I couldn't find the post, but here's what it is in a summary: "We are not giving Pokemon analyses that could be good in Trick Room. Trick Room does not warrant an analysis as it is unreliable and quite ineffective in the current metagame."
Or something along those lines.
EDIT: Yes, there will be RU analyses available after the first round of suspect testing iirc, which probably won't happen for at least another month since RU isn't top priority right now.
Or something along those lines.
EDIT: Yes, there will be RU analyses available after the first round of suspect testing iirc, which probably won't happen for at least another month since RU isn't top priority right now.
yeah, no ampharos (or other trick room dependents that can't set it up)
and we need more proof that is is better than zapdos or raikou, or even jolteon for that matter
(hint: it isn't, even under trick room- a movepool comprised of electric attack, focus blast, hidden power, and signal beam does not a fearsome sweeper make)
Besides, Ampharos is outclassed by Eelektross as an offensive bulky Electric type anyway.
You could make the argument of it's "niche" of being one of two Electric types that can learn Heal Bell (The other being Lanturn), though that is still not enough for UU. Again, Lanturn does the whole Heal Bell thing better with its better typing and defenses.
You could make the argument of it's "niche" of being one of two Electric types that can learn Heal Bell (The other being Lanturn), though that is still not enough for UU. Again, Lanturn does the whole Heal Bell thing better with its better typing and defenses.
We'll as you can see I'm literally new, sorry for any mistakes. I've been looking in the thread and no one mentioned Serperior. Why is that?
~Serperior has decent bulk of 75/95/95 access to Dual Screen, SubSeed, Scouting Move(Dragon Tail), Support, and offensive 75/75/113 Mix Sweeper with Growth.
~Raticate is the other one. I know he's frail with 60/70 defenses. Look at it offensive he has 81/97 in Atk and Speed. Access to Swords Dance(SD) it can hit really hard with Guts activated. Jolly is the nature reaching Atk261 and S322 with SD reaching Atk522. I've done some calcs with bulky UU pokemon to prove my point. Every calcs used Jolly Raticate SD+Guts just FYI.
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Registeel Hp364/Def438
Facade 37.09-43.68 3-4 to KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2-3 hits to KO)
Iron Head from Registeel can't kill(3 Hit Kill). Dead weight if it lacks Rest and/or Curse
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Tangrowth Hp404/Def383
Facade 75.99-89.85 2 hit KO (SR OHKO(15.38) 3 Layers of Spikes (100))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Milotic Hp394/Def282 Marvel Scale Active
Facade 70.81-83.25 2 hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes OHKO(58.97))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Ferroseed Hp292/Def309 Eviolite
Facade 43.49-51.37 2-3 Hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Chansey Hp704/Def119 Eviolite
Facade 93.89-110.51 OHKO(58.97) (SR OHKO, 1 Layer of Spikes OHKO)
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Cradily Hp376/Def322
Facade 48.4-57.18 2-3 Hits to KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
U-turn 64.89-76.6 2 Hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes OHKO(15.38))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Empoleon Hp372/Def302
Facade 52.42-61.56 2-3 Hits to KO (3 Layers of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
Wild Charge 90.32-106.45 OHKO(41.02) (SR OHKO(74.35) 1 Layer of Spikes(100))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Shaymin Hp404/Def328
Facade 88.61-104.7 OHKO(28.2) (SR OHKO(100) 1 Layer of Spikes(100))
U-turn 59.41-70.3 2 Hit KO (SR+3 Layor of Spikes OHKO (66.66))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Dusknoir Hp294/Def
Zen Headbutt 37.76-44.56 3 Hits to KO (SR+3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
Wild Charge 42.52-50.34 3 Hits to KO (3 layer of Spike 2 Hit KO)
Sorry for the long list!
As you can see after Sword Dance and Active Guts can demolish everything! Aggron and Rhyperior can wall a +2 Raticate easily. If you see any Pokemon left out it's because they get OHKO'd by a Swords Dance Raticate Guts activated or I left them out. Most Pokemon are either Done and Copyediting. Highly recommend for UU with proper support of Dual Screen and Wish Support. Again sorry for the long list.
~Serperior has decent bulk of 75/95/95 access to Dual Screen, SubSeed, Scouting Move(Dragon Tail), Support, and offensive 75/75/113 Mix Sweeper with Growth.
~Raticate is the other one. I know he's frail with 60/70 defenses. Look at it offensive he has 81/97 in Atk and Speed. Access to Swords Dance(SD) it can hit really hard with Guts activated. Jolly is the nature reaching Atk261 and S322 with SD reaching Atk522. I've done some calcs with bulky UU pokemon to prove my point. Every calcs used Jolly Raticate SD+Guts just FYI.
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Registeel Hp364/Def438
Facade 37.09-43.68 3-4 to KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2-3 hits to KO)
Iron Head from Registeel can't kill(3 Hit Kill). Dead weight if it lacks Rest and/or Curse
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Tangrowth Hp404/Def383
Facade 75.99-89.85 2 hit KO (SR OHKO(15.38) 3 Layers of Spikes (100))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Milotic Hp394/Def282 Marvel Scale Active
Facade 70.81-83.25 2 hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes OHKO(58.97))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Ferroseed Hp292/Def309 Eviolite
Facade 43.49-51.37 2-3 Hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Chansey Hp704/Def119 Eviolite
Facade 93.89-110.51 OHKO(58.97) (SR OHKO, 1 Layer of Spikes OHKO)
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Cradily Hp376/Def322
Facade 48.4-57.18 2-3 Hits to KO (3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
U-turn 64.89-76.6 2 Hit KO (3 Layer of Spikes OHKO(15.38))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Empoleon Hp372/Def302
Facade 52.42-61.56 2-3 Hits to KO (3 Layers of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
Wild Charge 90.32-106.45 OHKO(41.02) (SR OHKO(74.35) 1 Layer of Spikes(100))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Shaymin Hp404/Def328
Facade 88.61-104.7 OHKO(28.2) (SR OHKO(100) 1 Layer of Spikes(100))
U-turn 59.41-70.3 2 Hit KO (SR+3 Layor of Spikes OHKO (66.66))
~Raticate Atk522 vs. Dusknoir Hp294/Def
Zen Headbutt 37.76-44.56 3 Hits to KO (SR+3 Layer of Spikes 2 Hit KO)
Wild Charge 42.52-50.34 3 Hits to KO (3 layer of Spike 2 Hit KO)
Sorry for the long list!
As you can see after Sword Dance and Active Guts can demolish everything! Aggron and Rhyperior can wall a +2 Raticate easily. If you see any Pokemon left out it's because they get OHKO'd by a Swords Dance Raticate Guts activated or I left them out. Most Pokemon are either Done and Copyediting. Highly recommend for UU with proper support of Dual Screen and Wish Support. Again sorry for the long list.
no to both Serperior and Raticate. Serperior just doesn't hit hard enough, and we already have Sceptile and Whimsicott (when it drops). We have no need for covering Serperior as it is.
Rat is frail, slow, and is outclassed by Pokemon like Swellow and Tauros, both of which are mediocre at best in UU. So no, Rat is no good.
Rat is frail, slow, and is outclassed by Pokemon like Swellow and Tauros, both of which are mediocre at best in UU. So no, Rat is no good.
And did anyone even read my justification to riolu?
no Riolu
Added.
probably not going to win this but im bored. i nominate fraxure and here is a log of the conversation and calcs.
ya if you dont want to read through that then i will make it simple, but im tired so ill just use the log for now
07[11:27] <prem> snunch wuold you accept fraxure
[11:27] <~JibaNOTHERE> either way it still hurts more than ray
[11:27] <+Moo> does fraxure have eq?
[11:27] <+toaster> no
[11:27] <+toaster> not even brick break iirc
[11:27] <+Snunch> idk thats more of an oglemi question
[11:28] <+Moo> i'd rather use druddigon
[11:28] <+Moo> it gets sucker punch too
[11:28] <prem> but fraxure is a ddancer
[11:28] <+Moo> what moves does it get?
[11:28] <prem> ddance outrage dual chop dig :D
[11:28] <+toaster> it gets....dig and possibly rock smash
[11:28] <+Moo> lame
[11:28] <prem> ya rock smash
[11:28] <@JabbaTheGriffin> DIG
[11:28] <+Moo> awful movepool
[11:28] <+toaster> as coverage moves
[11:28] <prem> dude it works with dig
[11:28] <prem> cause of mold breaker
[11:28] <~JibaNOTHERE> !bulba fraxure
[11:29] <prem> and the fact that everything that is flying type is gonna get outraped
[11:29] <~JibaNOTHERE> all this talk about outrage just reminded me of how iris' axew recently learned outrage in the anime :p
[11:29] <+Snunch> lol
[11:29] <+Snunch> i bet fraxure is walled by chansey :/
[11:29] <prem> lol
[11:29] <@JabbaTheGriffin> how would you know that
[11:29] <prem> nope its not
[11:29] <prem> i checked
[11:29] <@JabbaTheGriffin> nerd
[11:29] <+toaster> thing is dig gives something like milo to come in and if you just dd'd....
[11:30] <+toaster> then it can do something after you hit it with dig
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> well erm
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> it gets reversal
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> if that counts
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> :p
[11:30] <+toaster> idk really I'd like to see some calcs of a +1 outrage against common walls
[11:31] <+toaster> heh
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Chansey@Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 51.2 ~ 60.5% (361 ~ 426 HP)
[11:31] <~JibaNOTHERE> that's without life orb right?
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Slowbro (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 46.7 ~ 55% (184 ~ 217 HP)
[11:31] <prem> ya no life orb
[11:31] <prem> i use evilite
[11:31] <~JibaNOTHERE> evilite
[11:31] <+toaster> and neutral nature too hmm
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Rhyperior (160/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 52.7 ~ 62.2% (217 ~ 256 HP)
[11:31] <+toaster> how much does it do to bro with adamant
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> just multiply it with 1.1x
[11:32] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, +Nature, +1) Outrage vs Slowbro (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 51.7 ~ 60.9% (204 ~ 240 HP)
[11:32] <+toaster> ah
[11:32] <prem> it needs jolly to outspeed base 115s though
[11:32] <prem> and weavile
[11:32] <prem> so weaviles cant ice punch
[11:32] <prem> while ice shard from weavile and mamo fail to ohko
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> prem
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> do +1 Outrage vs 252/252+ eviolite shelgon
[11:33] <@Theorymon> wait shelgon is used in UU this gen?
[11:33] <prem> lol
[11:33] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Shelgon@Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 79 ~ 93.4% (264 ~ 312 HP)
09[11:33] * Dinnerator is now known as Zarator
[11:33] <~JibaNOTHERE> idk but kd's Shelgon survived CB druddigon outrage so....
[11:33] <+toaster> 6.6
[11:33] <prem> if it uses lo it will kill it
[11:33] <+Snunch> lol shelgon what a champ
[11:34] <+Snunch> tanking +1 outrages
[11:34] <prem> lol that thing is a bulky fuck
[11:34] <prem> lol i should just show oglemi this log. maybe it will get a go
[11:34] <prem> who the fuck cares if it has to use dig
[11:34] <prem> its walled by emp, registeel, and escaviler
[11:27] <~JibaNOTHERE> either way it still hurts more than ray
[11:27] <+Moo> does fraxure have eq?
[11:27] <+toaster> no
[11:27] <+toaster> not even brick break iirc
[11:27] <+Snunch> idk thats more of an oglemi question
[11:28] <+Moo> i'd rather use druddigon
[11:28] <+Moo> it gets sucker punch too
[11:28] <prem> but fraxure is a ddancer
[11:28] <+Moo> what moves does it get?
[11:28] <prem> ddance outrage dual chop dig :D
[11:28] <+toaster> it gets....dig and possibly rock smash
[11:28] <+Moo> lame
[11:28] <prem> ya rock smash
[11:28] <@JabbaTheGriffin> DIG
[11:28] <+Moo> awful movepool
[11:28] <+toaster> as coverage moves
[11:28] <prem> dude it works with dig
[11:28] <prem> cause of mold breaker
[11:28] <~JibaNOTHERE> !bulba fraxure
[11:29] <prem> and the fact that everything that is flying type is gonna get outraped
[11:29] <~JibaNOTHERE> all this talk about outrage just reminded me of how iris' axew recently learned outrage in the anime :p
[11:29] <+Snunch> lol
[11:29] <+Snunch> i bet fraxure is walled by chansey :/
[11:29] <prem> lol
[11:29] <@JabbaTheGriffin> how would you know that
[11:29] <prem> nope its not
[11:29] <prem> i checked
[11:29] <@JabbaTheGriffin> nerd
[11:29] <+toaster> thing is dig gives something like milo to come in and if you just dd'd....
[11:30] <+toaster> then it can do something after you hit it with dig
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> well erm
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> it gets reversal
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> if that counts
[11:30] <~JibaNOTHERE> :p
[11:30] <+toaster> idk really I'd like to see some calcs of a +1 outrage against common walls
[11:31] <+toaster> heh
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Chansey@Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 51.2 ~ 60.5% (361 ~ 426 HP)
[11:31] <~JibaNOTHERE> that's without life orb right?
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Slowbro (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 46.7 ~ 55% (184 ~ 217 HP)
[11:31] <prem> ya no life orb
[11:31] <prem> i use evilite
[11:31] <~JibaNOTHERE> evilite
[11:31] <+toaster> and neutral nature too hmm
[11:31] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Rhyperior (160/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 52.7 ~ 62.2% (217 ~ 256 HP)
[11:31] <+toaster> how much does it do to bro with adamant
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> just multiply it with 1.1x
[11:32] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, +Nature, +1) Outrage vs Slowbro (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 51.7 ~ 60.9% (204 ~ 240 HP)
[11:32] <+toaster> ah
[11:32] <prem> it needs jolly to outspeed base 115s though
[11:32] <prem> and weavile
[11:32] <prem> so weaviles cant ice punch
[11:32] <prem> while ice shard from weavile and mamo fail to ohko
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> prem
[11:32] <~JibaNOTHERE> do +1 Outrage vs 252/252+ eviolite shelgon
[11:33] <@Theorymon> wait shelgon is used in UU this gen?
[11:33] <prem> lol
[11:33] <prem> Fraxure (252 EVs, Neutral Nature, +1) Outrage vs Shelgon@Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 79 ~ 93.4% (264 ~ 312 HP)
09[11:33] * Dinnerator is now known as Zarator
[11:33] <~JibaNOTHERE> idk but kd's Shelgon survived CB druddigon outrage so....
[11:33] <+toaster> 6.6
[11:33] <prem> if it uses lo it will kill it
[11:33] <+Snunch> lol shelgon what a champ
[11:34] <+Snunch> tanking +1 outrages
[11:34] <prem> lol that thing is a bulky fuck
[11:34] <prem> lol i should just show oglemi this log. maybe it will get a go
[11:34] <prem> who the fuck cares if it has to use dig
[11:34] <prem> its walled by emp, registeel, and escaviler
ya if you dont want to read through that then i will make it simple, but im tired so ill just use the log for now
So, I know that it's already in the GP stage of development, but I don't really understand why Pinsir is getting an analysis.
The analysis itself states that Pinsir is no good unless he is ran alongside Heracross, and that he's almost completely outclassed by Heracross. To me it seems that if a Pokemon is only viable if used on a team with another Pokemon (who outclasses it) then it isn't really all that viable at all.
I realize how great Pinsir pairs with Heracross, but I don't think he deserves an analysis if it's a "use me with Heracross or don't use me at all" scenario.
The analysis itself states that Pinsir is no good unless he is ran alongside Heracross, and that he's almost completely outclassed by Heracross. To me it seems that if a Pokemon is only viable if used on a team with another Pokemon (who outclasses it) then it isn't really all that viable at all.
I realize how great Pinsir pairs with Heracross, but I don't think he deserves an analysis if it's a "use me with Heracross or don't use me at all" scenario.
Like there aren't a million users that depend on drizzle P'toed or tails... Don't rag on my bug >:(
And might I make an attempt to bring about the inclusion of Lapras, whom already has a completed OU analyses yet is still on the list? Essentially a feraligatr with ice type but has access to ice shard and hydration, a useful ability even without the presence of Drizzle.
Fraxure gets the go ahead, spamming that boss Outrage seems good enough to me.
About Pinsir.... idk, I think it's just going to be a special case because it does have a nice niche in Moldbreaker. I can also make the argument that as far as outclassing something goes Heracross > Pinsir is far less than say Mew/Uxie > Gardevoir. I won't argue that you should run Pinsir instead of Heracross though. I think we'll just let it slide.
About Pinsir.... idk, I think it's just going to be a special case because it does have a nice niche in Moldbreaker. I can also make the argument that as far as outclassing something goes Heracross > Pinsir is far less than say Mew/Uxie > Gardevoir. I won't argue that you should run Pinsir instead of Heracross though. I think we'll just let it slide.
Drizzle is the only reason Lapras has an OU analysis >.>
Without Drizzle, Lapras is terrible and is in no way "a Feraligatr with an Ice-type." It's more of a "crappy Walrein."
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