Pokkén Tournament

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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I think that they are definitely thinking about type representation, which might be why they're not putting Mr. Mime in -- they already put in Gardevoir, and they're the same types. I don't think that should be how they are doing things though, because Mr. Mime would have a really interesting mimey playstyle (playing somewhat defensively with moves like Light Screen and Reflect could actually be something new and different) and really past the slight hate upon the game's release of fans of a certain type crying about their Pokemon of their type not getting in, that's not how they should be doing it. And regardless, I can think of a few Pokemon in each type that would fit in the game really bloody well, but Mr. Mime is about the only other Fairy-Type I can see being mobile enough to function properly.

Also I do feel the need to bring up the fact that we're getting the first incomplete Nintendo game. By that I mean they KNOW that the game won't have enough content when they release it, but they're still going to release it at full price, and then probably add enough DLC to make players essentially by the game twice money-wise. Before now Nintendo has been really good in terms of DLC prices; I would actually pay a lot more for the Mario Kart 8 DLC for example, and I think they grossly underpriced it... and they also gave 200cc to everyone for free, which lost them about £3 per player. A part of me doesn't want this game to do well so that Nintendo doesn't see this third party company's DLC plan making them a load of money and then having Nintendo replicate it in the future.
I'll wait until I see the full roster for the WiiU because there has to be more. That said even if there's not that much and are still working on some, characters that they want in the game should be made free DLC (like the 200 cc for Mario Kart). Characters the fans demand they decide to make into a fighter should be paid DLC since they had to go out of their way to make it. But if they charge for a character they were planning on having in the game I would call BS on that. And even then you're right its BS they would be releasing a game with missing content they'll patch in later. How about you wait to release the game until you have all the characters made, are you really that hurting for money?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
They probably picked Weavile for type representation. Honestly if those are the only ones that got a significant amount of votes they'll probably be announced/added later since that's only 5 more Pokemon. They also probably don't want to over saturate it with Fighting-types but, come on, its a FIGHTING tournament, this is their bread and butter! Surprised that Mewtwo, Heracross, Pangoro (if they also include an Ursaring we can have Pokemon versions of Panda and Kuma, it is a Tekken game afterall except with Pokemon), Breloom (speaking of which, Roger expy?), and the other part Fighting-type starters didn't get many. Also I would have though a lot of the Pokemon with Mega Evolutions and Legendaries would have garnered a lot of votes. *shrugs*
Pangoro did have a few votes but not that significant



Man they should have another vote for USA and Europe since they like very different stuff
 

Celever

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Pangoro did have a few votes but not that significant



Man they should have another vote for USA and Europe since they like very different stuff
Nintendo hasn't done that with any other games, I don't think they'll do that now with Pokken. The whole fighting genre is a lot bigger in Asia than elsewhere anyway, at least in terms of sales, so it makes sense that they want to focus on that market.
I'll wait until I see the full roster for the WiiU because there has to be more. That said even if there's not that much and are still working on some, characters that they want in the game should be made free DLC (like the 200 cc for Mario Kart). Characters the fans demand they decide to make into a fighter should be paid DLC since they had to go out of their way to make it. But if they charge for a character they were planning on having in the game I would call BS on that. And even then you're right its BS they would be releasing a game with missing content they'll patch in later. How about you wait to release the game until you have all the characters made, are you really that hurting for money?
That would require a certain amount of integrity which you don't see so much in any video game companies besides Nintendo. Nintendo really needs to harden up to keep bringing in the profit TBH.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Nintendo hasn't done that with any other games, I don't think they'll do that now with Pokken. The whole fighting genre is a lot bigger in Asia than elsewhere anyway, at least in terms of sales, so it makes sense that they want to focus on that market.
.
I agree, but strangely, it seems to be USA people who are shouting on Youtube that they want Pokken on Wii U.
Plus, as far as I know, the Japanese are not very hyped about Pokken, as there are too many other similar games.
 
Also I do feel the need to bring up the fact that we're getting the first incomplete Nintendo game. By that I mean they KNOW that the game won't have enough content when they release it, but they're still going to release it at full price, and then probably add enough DLC to make players essentially by the game twice money-wise.
Uh, what? Where on Earth are you getting this from? 0_o
 
Uh, what? Where on Earth are you getting this from? 0_o
I think what he means is that they're going to be consistently updating the game with more characters, but he speculates that, like the extra characters in Smash, they'll charge you for every new character they release after initial launch. If that's true, it's likely to be set up so that, to have a full roster, you'll have to basically pay the original price of the game when it only had 9 or 10 playable characters cumulatively as they release DLC.

But I don't think GF would be cool with that.
 
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Harada has made it a point in the past that he wouldn't charge money for dlc characters. He has made early access to dlc characters as a pre-order incentive but he's never charged them. In fact, he also gave costumes and stages for free as well so he likely won't be pushing for paid dlc characters. So really, it'll be up to GF.

I also agree that Pikachu Libre is a waste of spot, especially when Hawlucha exists. It should have been an alternate costume (along with the other cosplay variations). If they were to have another pikachu, they should done Flying Pikachu. It would have been more interesting, imo.
 
Except that Pikachu Libre didn't stole Hawlucha's spot, or any pokemon for that matter, since it's most likely an easy clone, and complaining now when we haven't seen the complete roster of the console version is expecially stupid. You guys almost look like the kids complaining that Dark Pit stole King K. Rool's spot or something in Smash Bros lol.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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I won't be buying this if it only stays at 10 characters + 8 supports. Not if it retails for £30+. They need to be careful how they price/market this.

Why would you when Smash exists and has 4 times as many playable characters? Even Tekken/SF has a huge amount more.

I mean, if it comes out at £20 or so, I might look at it. Unless they have a lot of stuff hidden in the pipeline (which would be strange considering it's an arcade game, why would you make the home version "better") I'll be giving this a miss.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I won't be buying this if it only stays at 10 characters + 8 supports. Not if it retails for £30+. They need to be careful how they price/market this.

Why would you when Smash exists and has 4 times as many playable characters? Even Tekken/SF has a huge amount more.

I mean, if it comes out at £20 or so, I might look at it. Unless they have a lot of stuff hidden in the pipeline (which would be strange considering it's an arcade game, why would you make the home version "better") I'll be giving this a miss.
I agree that they definitely should increase the roster.
What they have now is way below what that appeals to Pokemon fans.
Ideally, they should include every single Pokemon. Although it's quite impossible, they should fit as many as they can.
 

Typhlito

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If there ends up being a much bigger roster, how cool would it be if you can do 6 vs 6 like a real pokemon battle? It would be like the show but much better.

Although with support pokemon, that would make this idea unlikely...
 
Hmm, I've been away for a week and it seems as though discussion has pretty quickly turned from:

"Hooray, Pokken Tournament is coming to the Wii U, all aboard the hype train!"

To:

"Jeez, this game is lacking in content, and wouldn't have been given a second glance by anyone were it not for the Pokemon brand. I think I'll skip this one..."

What happened?

I do agree that the game seems a little bare-bones once you get off the hype pedestal. But let's try to put a positive spin on things:

- We still don't know how much content the game will end up with, and whether we will have to pay extra for it. Splatoon, for example, was criticised at launch for its limited range of weapons, maps and game modes - accusations that fail to hold water three months later.
- In a game like this, the responsiveness of the controls and depth of the core mechanics easily trump the amount of content. Of course that's something we don't know anything about yet.
- It's not like 2016 is shaping up to be a year of milk and honey for Wii U owners. We're getting Zelda (if it isn't delayed again), Star Fox (maybe), "the definitive port of Yooka-Laylee" (according to the butthurt Nintendo fans who still haven't forgiven Rare for selling out) and... some lame-looking Animal Crossing-themed Mario Party clone which appears to be going down the Skylanders route of being unplayable without accompanying Amiibo? Let's take what we can get, guys.
 
- It's not like 2016 is shaping up to be a year of milk and honey for Wii U owners. We're getting Zelda (if it isn't delayed again), Star Fox (maybe), "the definitive port of Yooka-Laylee" (according to the butthurt Nintendo fans who still haven't forgiven Rare for selling out) and... some lame-looking Animal Crossing-themed Mario Party clone which appears to be going down the Skylanders route of being unplayable without accompanying Amiibo? Let's take what we can get, guys.
This should be a reason to make a better game, not to settle with a worse one...
 
I'll just come out and say right now that saying the game'll be bad based off the current 10-Pokémon roster is... just stupid. I mean first of all we practically know for sure this is not gonna be the final roster; I kind of doubt they'll show off the whole thing before release, unlockable characters are a thing in fighting games, and due to how low-key and cloney Pikachu-Libre's reveal was I sort of don't think that'll be the last reveal. Second off, even if somehow we only end up with 10-15 characters... I kind of think you're missing the point of a fighting game here. I mean of course, variety is fantastic and the more characters the better; but a lot of beloved fighting game franchises like say Smash and Street Fighter had their first game's roster be incredibly meager. Did that stop them from being great games? No! of course it didn't! I mean, hell, in Smash 4 I play like 10 characters - Shulk, Lucina, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Link and a few others - and that doesn't stop it from being a great game. Why? Because the quality isn't directly equivalent to roster size. What matters is how the game plays and what other features we have. Smash 64 for instance had 8 starting characters, 4 unlockable ones, 9 stages, VS mode, target smash, training mode and board the platforms. And I know, that's a Nintendo 64 game and this is a Wii U one. But despite the meager roster size, that is more than enough content to keep me going. There's so many fighting games where people just pick up one or two characters and use them the entire time. As long as the roster has variety and quality, quantity shouldn't be that much of a problem.
And in general dooming a game before it's released based on limited information and pre-conceptions is just generally stupid as well. Remember the hate Wind Waker got before it's release? Hell, remember how people on Smogon thought Mega Evolutions were going to be a one-note gimmick that'd only give like a 10% increase to some stats or something? Sorry to get so passionate about this, it's just... this looks like one of the best things to happen to the franchise in a long while, with a fun varied roster; people who have played the arcade version saying it plays great; a lot of clear effort and passion put into the graphics and music; and a team working on it well-renowned for putting out some of the best fighting games in existence. Fuck, doesn't thinking a game's going to be bad based on what limited information we have fall under baseless speculation? C'mon guys :P
 
Okay, let's sum up the information we know for certain:

- The current character roster.
- Limited Wii U footage, a bit more footage on arcades.
- The release date, to within a month or two.
- The track record of the team working on the game (from which little can be conclusively deduced).

And that's it to be honest. Anything else is somewhere between speculation and wishlisting. Unless Cresselia~~ you're one of the few Japanese people here, have you had any hands-on experience with the arcade version?
 
I'll just come out and say right now that saying the game'll be bad based off the current 10-Pokémon roster is... just stupid. I mean first of all we practically know for sure this is not gonna be the final roster; I kind of doubt they'll show off the whole thing before release, unlockable characters are a thing in fighting games, and due to how low-key and cloney Pikachu-Libre's reveal was I sort of don't think that'll be the last reveal. Second off, even if somehow we only end up with 10-15 characters... I kind of think you're missing the point of a fighting game here. I mean of course, variety is fantastic and the more characters the better; but a lot of beloved fighting game franchises like say Smash and Street Fighter had their first game's roster be incredibly meager. Did that stop them from being great games? No! of course it didn't! I mean, hell, in Smash 4 I play like 10 characters - Shulk, Lucina, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Link and a few others - and that doesn't stop it from being a great game. Why? Because the quality isn't directly equivalent to roster size. What matters is how the game plays and what other features we have. Smash 64 for instance had 8 starting characters, 4 unlockable ones, 9 stages, VS mode, target smash, training mode and board the platforms. And I know, that's a Nintendo 64 game and this is a Wii U one. But despite the meager roster size, that is more than enough content to keep me going. There's so many fighting games where people just pick up one or two characters and use them the entire time. As long as the roster has variety and quality, quantity shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Also, another I would like to add to that is that Super Smash Bros. Brawl, which has 21 starting characters, 14 unlockable characters, 41 stages, VS mode, a few minigames, training mode, a story mode, and 4 possible choices for controllers. However, it is still regarded as a low-quality game by most of the competitive smash players due to the mechanics changes that made it a slower and more casual game than its predecessor, making a good example of a game that has a lot of characters and options, but is still not that great.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Okay, let's sum up the information we know for certain:

- The current character roster.
- Limited Wii U footage, a bit more footage on arcades.
- The release date, to within a month or two.
- The track record of the team working on the game (from which little can be conclusively deduced).

And that's it to be honest. Anything else is somewhere between speculation and wishlisting. Unless Cresselia~~ you're one of the few Japanese people here, have you had any hands-on experience with the arcade version?
Not yet... I'm not Japanese. (Though I started learning Japanese when I was 8)
Not sure if these arcades will come to Hong Kong.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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I'll just come out and say right now that saying the game'll be bad based off the current 10-Pokémon roster is... just stupid. I mean first of all we practically know for sure this is not gonna be the final roster; I kind of doubt they'll show off the whole thing before release, unlockable characters are a thing in fighting games, and due to how low-key and cloney Pikachu-Libre's reveal was I sort of don't think that'll be the last reveal. Second off, even if somehow we only end up with 10-15 characters... I kind of think you're missing the point of a fighting game here. I mean of course, variety is fantastic and the more characters the better; but a lot of beloved fighting game franchises like say Smash and Street Fighter had their first game's roster be incredibly meager. Did that stop them from being great games? No! of course it didn't! I mean, hell, in Smash 4 I play like 10 characters - Shulk, Lucina, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Link and a few others - and that doesn't stop it from being a great game. Why? Because the quality isn't directly equivalent to roster size. What matters is how the game plays and what other features we have. Smash 64 for instance had 8 starting characters, 4 unlockable ones, 9 stages, VS mode, target smash, training mode and board the platforms. And I know, that's a Nintendo 64 game and this is a Wii U one. But despite the meager roster size, that is more than enough content to keep me going. There's so many fighting games where people just pick up one or two characters and use them the entire time. As long as the roster has variety and quality, quantity shouldn't be that much of a problem.
And in general dooming a game before it's released based on limited information and pre-conceptions is just generally stupid as well. Remember the hate Wind Waker got before it's release? Hell, remember how people on Smogon thought Mega Evolutions were going to be a one-note gimmick that'd only give like a 10% increase to some stats or something? Sorry to get so passionate about this, it's just... this looks like one of the best things to happen to the franchise in a long while, with a fun varied roster; people who have played the arcade version saying it plays great; a lot of clear effort and passion put into the graphics and music; and a team working on it well-renowned for putting out some of the best fighting games in existence. Fuck, doesn't thinking a game's going to be bad based on what limited information we have fall under baseless speculation? C'mon guys :P
If you want a better example of a wildly acclaimed fighter with a limited roster one I immediately think of is Skullgirls. That game started with 8 characters and 6 DLC ones later for a total of 14 characters. But still what made Skullgirls good was that it was fast-paced, each character felt unique, and the overall mechanics felt tightly made.

I think the reason people are disappointed with the roster is due to two things:

1. There are over 700 Pokemon with dozens who you could imagine being great fighters. Expectations often misguides judgement as people start comparing how the game actually is to the game they created in their own head which can often lead to disappointment. This also includes character rosters and surely with the character roster as big as Pokemon they'll include as many Pokemon as possible, right? Well, yes and no. They'll include as many they think is necessary and would be interesting, but they won't throw in a Pokemon just for the sake of having that Pokemon in the game. Going back to my Skullgirls example, in a fighter you want each one to feel unique and with Pokemon while there's potential for a lot of Pokemon to have a unique fighting style there's also probably just as many who would fight similarly to another (not to mention in fighting games there are certain tropes that people expect to be filled). So in truth the Pokemon we've seen so far are probably what the Tekken team and the Pokemon Company felt best represented certain fighting styles. Also let's not forget about the Assist Pokemon which helps stack on the number of Pokemon even though they're essentially just one use items, but hey how else would they have been able to add in prevos (Pikachu is the sereis mascot he gets special treatment) and some Pokemon who just aren't suited for this type of fighting game.

2. The most recent Tekken game was Tekken 7 which had 27 characters (though only 20 are playable with the rest the other 7 being added as DLC). Tekken games in general are known for their large cast of characters so people who know the Tekken series probably expected more or less of the same thing. However there's a major difference between making a fighting game you created and a fighting game using another franchise properties. First off you got to work with the people who own that franchise so right away there might be conflicting opinions. Each group may want to include certain Pokemon for various reasons, the franchise owner may not feel the game creators have gotten the character quite right, the game creators are having a difficult time working with a character the franchise owners want in, etc.. Secondly the Tekken team are able to have so many characters in Tekken because they created them, they know these how those characters act and fight. Now while for the most part you don't need to worry about a Pokemon's personality since they're animals, you still need to understand how they fight. Think of it this way, would it look right if Machamp was a fast Pokemon who's fighting style was quick boxing jabs? How about if Pikachu or Weavile being slow but they do large sweeping moves that do tons of damage? Or how about Gardevoir doing martial arts? No, it wouldn't look right at all (it'll look funny though, but that's not what you want). You want the characters to feel natural, like how you would expect them to fight. Pokemon haven't really ever fought like this in a game before so this is new territory and to do it right they'd need to do a lot of brain storming, discussions, and research. I wouldn't be surprised if they have read Pokemon manga and anime episodes featuring the playable fighters to get an understanding of how the Pokemon creators see these Pokemon acting and, most importantly, fighting.

We need to take this game as it is and not what we imagined it to be. We can have expectations, but they should be reasonable expectations and ones that come from understanding why certain decisions were made. I'm sure they'll also be introducing more characters anyway, heck more will probably come via DLC which we know was confirmed. Also let's not overlook the characters we have now and their playstyle, by Types and body shape they're quite varied even though there's only 10 (Pikachu Libre not withstanding, but hey every game has its clone characters. Pit and Dark Pit anyone?).

And who knows, if this works out maybe more we'll be seeing more varied Pokemon games. In another thread I think Vader_the_White commented that even though Pokemon are said to be able to do various things such things aren't usually focused on besides them fighting. Now while he was only talking about within the main game series that comment and this read reminded me of an idea direction that Pokemon could take. When it was first announced I thought Pokken would mainly be filled with Fighting-types (and it should, I know they want to make it diverse which they done a good job with but personally I think it kind of unfair to Fighting-types. I think the game should at least be a fourth or third filled with Fighting-types. At the moment I think they'd have no problem finding a place for Hitmonchan (boxer), Hitmontop (capoeira), Hariyama (sumo), Medicham (meditation & yoga), Pangoro (gansta), Hawlucha (lucha Libre), Heracross (attacks with its horn), Gallade (swordsman), Chesnaught (armored bruiser)) so I thought of what types of games would fit other types. Here is what I thought of:

Firefighting: You create a team of Pokemon who work to put out fires, perform rescues in burning buildings, etc.. While it would include mainly Water-types it'll have Pokemon of other types too depending on the job they'd need to do. For example Fire-types would be useful as rescuers and maybe dealing with forest fires by burning down path of trees to prevent the fire from spreading.

Forest Creator: Here me out. Basically think a cross of Sim City and Ages of Empire. You basically create your own forest for your Pokemon to inhabit and grow. Not only would you be growing and expanding your territory but you'd also have to protect it from rival groups. I imagine it having mainly Grass- and Bug-types but honestly any Pokemon who lives in a forest area would be in. Heck, maybe even expand from forests and make include other environments like mountains, caves, deserts, volcanic, arctic, etc..

Racing: I first imagined it for Flying-types as air races but thinking about it you can have all sorts of races with all sorts of Pokemon participating in them. Flying races, swimming races, digging races, and of course running races.

That's the main ones I thought about before shoving it aside to think about later (which I never did), but maybe that was a good thing as with Pokken including Pokemon of other type it dawned on me I could easily do the same thing. As it turns out Pokemon are very versatile creatures. ;)
 

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