Serious Political Correctness and Race

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Chou Toshio

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Yeah that and inaccurate. Hawaii fielded the most Human Resources complaints of discrimination out of any state when my mom was in the national arbitration office for Securitas. It also was the state that they found they had to settle the most often because discrimination was verifiably happening.

But yeah the Hawaiian model is so forgiving (read: repressed and toxic).
I'd not be at all surprised if you can find metrics that seem to point to Hawaii being more racist than other areas; but that's not really the point. Racial inequalities and issues that arise from racial tensions are realities everywhere-- however, I still think that Hawaii's culture that leads to broader acceptance and inarguably a much higher degree of cross-race integration are points worthy of reference by mainlanders.

In short, just like stated in the op-- we have our issues, and they are real, but I'd definitely say we don't have issues on the same level or the same degree of severity as on the mainland, including in the mainland's liberal states.

On your point about HR complaints-- it might turn out that it means that our state provides a better environment/infrastructure to make those complaints.


Anyway, "Hawaii is a repressed and toxic place from which we have nothing to learn from" is an opinion I cannot find as anything but wrong, even laughable. Certainly not progressive.

My sister (white af) married a native Hawaiian and moved there, from what they've said native Hawaiians can be super racist/prejudiced against those who are not from Hawaii. I don't think this is a particularly difficult claim to verify, that there is a lot of disdain for those who aren't natives.
You will notice that I referenced Hawaii's issues from the beginning-- including the topic of anti-white racism. It's a thing--

But then, there is also a broadly known opinion that racism experienced by whites in Hawaii is not so significantly more pointed than it is towards other races-- but white mainlanders find when they come, for the first time in their lives, that they are not the mainstream, they are not the default, they are just one more race subjected to the same kind of social critique as any other race, and in a state where said social critique is not taboo. They are just "another group in the discussion" for the first time, and that bothers them and feels racist.

Also, there is the fact that compared to their local-haole (Hawaii born/Hawaii raised/long-time Hawaii resident whites) counterparts, they just don't fit in as well; which is natural. Mainlanders tend to act with urgency, speak too frankly/with too much confrontation, and unintentionally act in ways that Hawaii locals can take as arrogant. There is a learning curve whenever you move somewhere new, and there is definitely a big discrepancy between different white individuals in how well they end up acclimating to Hawaii.



Off-topic but really just to clarify some details about the state--

your post seems to be off in terms of context for Hawaii; because its wording makes it out to be that there is a special dynamic between native Hawaiians and whites-- which is not really the case because it's more of a dynamic between whites and non-whites, or mainlanders and Hawaii locals.

Most people from the mainland don't realize that the word "Hawaiians" only refers to literal, ethnic Hawaiians, when the term they are often looking for is "Hawaii locals," or "Hawaii residents", which refers to the broader category of Polynesian, Asian, and yes local whites who have long roots and largely have created Hawaii's modern society/culture. Example, I am from Hawaii, but I am not a Hawaiian. I am a Japanese/Chinese American, I am a Hawaii local, or a Hawaii resident. In Hawaii, I would also say "I'm local Japanese". If your sister stays long and acclimates, she could say "I am local haole," or "I am local white."

Saying "Native Hawaiians are racist to whites" is a really weird statement because Native Hawaiians are only a very small percentage of the population who don't have a notably different attitude towards whites/mainland whites that isn't shared by the broader category of Hawaii locals, or Hawaii non-whites. The issue is made more complex by the fact that people of pure Hawaiian heritage are basically non-existant, and most Hawaiians only have a small part of their overall genetic heritage from Hawaiians, and so are inextricably connected to the other Polynesian/Asian/and even White communities who they universally have heritage from.
 
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verbatim

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The problem is that society is NOT changing, at least not naturally changing. People are not upset that there a natural public groundswell of their neighbors trying to get them to change their attitudes, they are upset that some peon got himself a government office and thinks the best way to use that office is to subvert the values and culture - using whatever penalties they can administer - of the people that put them there.
This is not a new phenomenon, or one that subscribes to any political creed. It's also 100% representative of clashing ideologies, which government officials can have and acted on, for better (Little Rock Nine), or for worse (Trail of Tears), or for logistical reasons more than anything else (Emancipation Proclamation).


People got incredibly upset at all of them. That in and of itself doesn't make them all wrong.
 

Yeti

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your post seems to be off in terms of context for Hawaii; because its wording makes it out to be that there is a special dynamic between native Hawaiians and whites-- which is not really the case because it's more of a dynamic between whites and non-whites, or mainlanders and Hawaii locals.
I appreciate your write up but I think you need to read a bit more closely...

native Hawaiians can be super racist/prejudiced against those who are not from Hawaii. I don't think this is a particularly difficult claim to verify, that there is a lot of disdain for those who aren't natives.
Like this is literally what you said the dynamic is, I didn't say anything about race except that my sister was white and her husband native.

The wording makes out nothing of the sort that it's between natives vs whites, but natives vs people who are not native to the islands.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/interior-...lling-racist-golliwog-keyrings-160719053.html
Should history really be considered when judging whether an item is racist or not? Or eventually, people who aren't from that generation should let it go?

I want to know what libs think about this issue and their explanations.

TheValkyries atomicllamas
Historical context is important. For example, there is nothing inherently racist in calling someone an ape, but given there was a particularly dark era where scientists tried to prove non-whites were less intelligent and "sub-human", calling a black person an ape is considered universally (I think) racist. Same thing if you told a black person to go pick cotton, without historical context, it's just telling someone to do a menial task or something shitty (ala "jump off a bridge"), but with context it's pretty clearly a slavery joke with racial motivations.

TBH I didn't even know what a golliwog was, but given I know what racist caricatures look like, I probably would have cringed at that item, the historical context doesn't make it better.

Also tags don't work in edits FYI.
 
golliwogs weren't popular in America, but I know a minstrelry when I see it. Black Caricatures are racist by design, and time will never change that.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Or eventually, people who aren't from that generation should let it go?
I want to clarify this question before I respond because I'm making an assumption about it.

What do you mean by not being from that generation wrt the golliwogs?
 

Yeti

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http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/01...-alleged-kidnapping-torture-is-live-streamed/

tl;dr mentally unwell boy kidnapped by 4 people, cut up, wounds used as ash tray, anti-white/trump crap spouted

any white guilters wanna try and excuse away this hate crime?

or can we just accept every single shade of skin can do something crappy to any other shade of skin and we should all just treat each other with respect and dignity????????
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
#notallcrimes

Edit: man what useless shit is that like "oh people can be angry and say mean things about white people racism goes all directions". Yeah totally let's forget all of the history involved and all of the white supremacy rooted in our culture and attribute criticisms based on that as just stemming from reverse racist attitudes and not actually having any actual merits.

Fucked up things happen for fucked up reasons but to just act brand new and pretend that there aren't power dynamics along racial fault lines that go certain ways is just ludicrous. Race exists, race has a history in America, acknowledging those things and approaching things from that perspective isn't "white guilting" or whatever you want to call it to disparage it. White Supremacy is an evil fucked up thing and attacking it wherever it is found is important given how strongly it is attached to society. Being anti-white supremacy doesnt make one anti-white but boy howdy is that not telling of how tightly tied white supremacy and whitenesss is in America when they can be confused for each other.

Edit 2:
James Baldwin said:
“I will state flatly that the bulk of this country’s white population impresses me, and has so impressed me for a very long time, as being beyond any conceivable hope of moral rehabilitation. They have been white, if I may so put it, too long; they have been married to the lie of white supremacy too long; the effect in the personalities, their lives, their grasp of realty, has been as devastating as the lava which so memorably immobilized the citizens of Pompeii. They are unable to conceive that their version of reality, which they want me to accept, is an insult to my history and a parody of theirs and an intolerable violation of myself.”
 
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Cresselia~~

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I want to clarify this question before I respond because I'm making an assumption about it.

What do you mean by not being from that generation wrt the golliwogs?
I mean like, people being born after racist caricatures were a thing.
Or even, I don't think anyone living right now had been a black slave.
So, another example of my question was, as atomicllamas said, should "go and pick cotton" still be racist nowadays, even when no one living right now had been a black slave?


(I mean, I understand how black people are still very oppressed right now, but I think that calling everything racist is making them more unhappy instead of making the world a better place for them.)
 

Yeti

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Being anti-white supremacy doesnt make one anti-white but boy howdy is that not telling of how tightly tied white supremacy and whitenesss is in America when they can be confused for each other
"During the video you hear them say "Fuck Donald Trump" and "Fuck White People""

this literally was an anti-white hate crime.

but i am glad you think torturing someone mentally disabled is apparently not as bad if he's white and the douchebags assaulting him are not-white, than if he's black or some other race. genuinely what's wrong with the far left. their cognitive dissonance that cripples them from understanding there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "it is equally bad to torture or disrespect a person of X skintone as it is a person of Y skintone" because if X is white that's apparently white supremacy makes it extremely difficult to get a productive discussion about race going without dragging pointless guilt into it.

minorities have been the victims of disadvantaged positions, rights and respect for centuries so it is extremely important to make sure prejudice against them is dispelled so anyone of any race has the same respect and opportunities as anyone else but that doesn't make a hate crime against a majority any less sickening and disgusting. attacking someone because they received genetics that give them a certain skintone is WRONG no matter what that tone is. tf is this even something you try and dispute?
 
thank you for your irrelevant sidebar and sweeping generalization. i don't really see your point. you accuse the left of being morally bankrupt because you feel like it? i am curious as to your what your argument is & how it ties to the current discourse.
 
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TheValkyries

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Yeah good thing I didn't defend that crime or mention it as being anything other than disgusting Yeti glad I could be represented properly. My entire post I was referring to you trying to use this crime as some strange "gotcha" against people talking about white supremacy.

Also on guilt: stop projecting. When someone says "hey don't do this this isn't good" and your response is "oh shit my bad I wasn't aware of that" and you stop doing the thing YOU LITERALLY HAVE NOTHING TO BE GUILTY ABOUT. Everyone has learned in white supremacy so much of what we know is tainted by it you're going to run into it a lot when thinking about race. But when you think all the left is doing is trying to assign needless guilt when calling that shit out I suggest you actually examine why you personally have that guilt because the only guilt being inserted is YOURS.
 

Yeti

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i dont treat people poorly or differently based on their race and i value showing diversity of representation and the stories of those from different backgrounds and skintones but tell me more about what i feel guilty about??? besides not being sorry i'm white and think white people, just like literally everyone else, shouldn't be the victims of hate crimes??? or something? lol.

i'm sure you think that professor who tweeted "all i want for christmas is white genocide" is completely within bounds to wish millions of people die bc they're white lmfao
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Yes because white genocide hasn't been an established term used by white supremacists for decades to describe the erosion of white supremacist culture. Again you're acting brand new to all of this.

And again I'm sure I don't know what you're guilty about I don't know why you brought it up in the first place.
 
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Cresselia~~

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But they still are? You even linked an article about one.

e: Will probably add more later.
I don't think the ones I posted have racist intentions.
Why would such an image (as an image alone) be racist without historical context?

There are people who don't know about that piece of history, especially if they aren't from America.
These keyrings somehow, for some reason, are kinda popular in China right now, and they are being produced by clueless people from China.
(Which probably is where the UK shop's supply came from.)

But of course, I'd say it's a really bad idea for a UK or American shop to sell them, the shopkeepers should have known the history.
 
or can we just accept every single shade of skin can do something crappy to any other shade of skin and we should all just treat each other with respect and dignity????????

No shit. The only people who say otherwise are the "Black-on-black and/or black-on-white crime means that we shouldn't care about white-on-black and/or cop-on-black crime" types.

Which, in fact, seems to be the only possible reason for even bringing this unrelated piece of horribleness up.

You're projecting like an IMAX theatre.
 
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Yeti

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Yes because white genocide hasn't been an established term used by white supremacists for decades to describe the erosion of white supremacist culture. Again you're acting brand new to all of this.
except the professor in question published a paper praising the genocide of white people in haiti and genuinely believes exterminating people of [race] is a good thing? but that's ok because [race] is white? makes u a $#!% person in my book t b h.

but yea it's totally unrelated to bring up a racially motivated hate crime in a thread that was half-dead ABOUT race lmao and try and throw logical fallacies at my posts but ignore the irrelevant ad hominem attempts to claim i'm projecting some.. guilt.. thing? why aren't you calling those out dice?

i didn't realize this thread was just here to circlejerk considering you lot care more about claiming i'm projecting than focusing on the fact a mentally disabled kid got tortured over his race, which, again, he didn't exactly pick. look at your own ugly mentalities when you reflect on how much more you'd care if the perpetrators were 4 white people doing this to a minority spouting UP WITH TRUMP HATE [BLACKS MUSLIMS HISPANICS ASIANS] hateful nonsense and ask yourself why tf it matters what color the victim of a hate crime is in how invested in the incident you are. i didn't vote trump due to my dislike for his views on race before you try and spout that btw.
 

Cresselia~~

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Physically attacking anyone due to their skin color is wrong, no matter what skin color the offenders are...
But it seems that some libs don't agree and think that hate crimes against white people are ok.
 
Right so i'm not American, but people talk about these highly controversial "libs" all the time, and I don't think i've ever heard of someone with the sort of extreme views people describe as seemingly common in my entire life? Are crazy "libs" who attack white people in the name of political correctness a thing in the US? Or is it just people chatting shit on twitter?

I suppose my view is that I obviously don't wish abuse or hate crimes on anyone, however I think a lot of people really exaggerate "reverse racism" against whites when it is a minor issue compared to ongoing systematic racism against minorities in Western countries. I believe humans as a species have an innate desire to put people in groups and support our own at the expense of others, and if we could all acknowledge that and try and see past it the world would be a much better place.
 

Cresselia~~

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Right so i'm not American, but people talk about these highly controversial "libs" all the time, and I don't think i've ever heard of someone with the sort of extreme views people describe as seemingly common in my entire life? Are crazy "libs" who attack white people in the name of political correctness a thing in the US? Or is it just people chatting shit on twitter?

I suppose my view is that I obviously don't wish abuse or hate crimes on anyone, however I think a lot of people really exaggerate "reverse racism" against whites when it is a minor issue compared to ongoing systematic racism against minorities in Western countries. I believe humans as a species have an innate desire to put people in groups and support our own at the expense of others, and if we could all acknowledge that and try and see past it the world would be a much better place.
I thought "reverse racism" means when you favor an ethnic minority over a white, (like affirmative action), or that a dark skinned person could get away with something because he/ she has dark skin, so some people think it's a good thing.
I don't think the phrase means oppressing/ abusing white people.
 
I thought "reverse racism" means when you favor an ethnic minority over a white, (like affirmative action), or that a dark skinned person could get away with something because he/ she has dark skin, so some people think it's a good thing.
I don't think the phrase means oppressing/ abusing white people.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, some people do definitely get away with saying stuff that is out of line. Its frustrating because being vile doesn't help anyone's cause; being angry (which is perfectly acceptable imo, and being loud/demonstrating etc is the only way to attract attention to your cause) is different to just being nasty to people because they're white. I don't see it as a huge social issue, but I definitely judge people who talk like that haha.
 
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