Politoed (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed 90% of you people are whiny little children.
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    Alright, I would like to thank Rising_Dusk for considering me for this analysis, honor taken. Let's hope we can all get busy with this little guy...

    Credits to Dusk also for making this easy to read for all of us...

    Status: Done!

    QC Approvals: (3/3) (Iconic) (PK Gaming) (Eo Ut Mortus)

    GP Approvals: (4/2) (Gen. Empoleon <3) (Calm PokeMaster <3) (+ Chou Toshio) (+Rising Dusk) (+jc104)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    Politoed

    [Overview]

    <p>Since its debut, Politoed had been considered a depressingly outclassed Pokemon, with only a few niche moves to give it any sort of competitive interest. Confronted with steep competition from other superior Water-types, including Suicune, Starmie, Milotic, and even Golduck, Politoed became one of the most forgettable competitive Pokemon in history. Three generations later, everything changed.</p>

    <p>The emergence of the Dream World brought Politoed one of the most game-changing abilities that exists: Drizzle. Previously exclusive to Kyogre, this ability allows Politoed to provide valuable team support in the form of eternal rain. Politoed is no slouch either with impressive defenses; its bulk, combined with a decent Special Attack stat and double-STAB Water-type attacks thanks to rain, makes Politoed difficult to defeat. While this zero-to-hero will encounter obstacles in threats such as Ferrothorn and opposing bulky Water-types, Politoed-powered rain teams are extremely effective.</p>

    <p>Despite that Drizzle Politoed with Swift Swim teammates is probably the first thing you want to try, it is important to note that a ban was implemented disallowing this combination of abilities on any team. Politoed, nevertheless, is still a key factor in the success of many rain abusers, such as Pokemon weak to Fire-type attacks, Pokemon that can abuse Water-type attacks, and Pokemon with an assortment of other rain-driven abilities like Dry Skin and Rain Dish. Politoed is a huge influence on BW OU, and has aided tremendously in shaping the metagame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Politoed admittedly lacks the traits of traditional Choice Specs users—most notably high Special Attack and Speed stats—Drizzle makes it a potent threat. Factoring in rain's boost to Water-type attacks, Politoed's double-STAB Hydro Pump is <em>the</em> golden arrow of OU, powering through many Pokemon that resist it. Unlike other Choice Specs users, Politoed can be played like a tank, should you not require it to be healthy in order to restore rain. Water typing gives it few weaknesses, and with good bulk, it can sponge even some super effective attacks.</p>

    <p>The Water-type attack chosen is Politoed's main weapon; all other attacks are just coverage for use based on circumstance. Ice Beam allows Politoed to check opposing Dragon- and Grass-type foes, who resist Politoed's Water-type moves. Focus Blast is useful for smashing Ferrothorn and Empoleon. The last slot is given to Hidden Power Grass to cover Water Absorb Jellicent, Rotom-W, Storm Drain Gastrodon, and the rare Water Absorb Quagsire. Keep in mind when using Politoed that a neutral Hydro Pump will deal more damage than 2x super effective coverage moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To illustrate the power that Choice Specs Politoed packs, some calculations assuming a Modest nature are listed below:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculations">
    <li>Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/4 Blissey: 40.5% - 47.9%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/216 Scizor: 103.2% - 121.5%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/252 Reuniclus: 101.9% - 120.1%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/0 +1 Reuniclus: 67.8% - 79.9%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/224+ Jirachi: 68.6% - 80.9%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (sun) vs. 0/4 Ninetales: 87.8% - 103.1%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump (sandstorm) vs. 252/252+ Tyranitar: 59.9% - 71.3%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Maximum Special Attack EV investment is necessary, as Politoed needs the power. Maximum Speed investment allows Politoed to outrun major threats, such as Scizor and specially defensive Jirachi. Investing in general bulk can be useful, however, so all of the Speed EVs can be relocated to HP for extra bulk.</p>

    <p>Water Absorb Pokemon are excellent checks to Choice-locked Politoed. Gastrodon and Jellicent will fare well against all moves but Hidden Power Grass. Politoed should also be wary of wasting Hydro Pump's PP against very specially bulky foes, such as Blissey and Celebi. Having alternative methods to handle Politoed's checks and counters is extremely important. Magnezone supports Politoed spectacularly by taking out Ferrothorn, and simultaneously appreciates rain support to reduce Fire-type damage. Paralysis support from the likes of Jirachi, Thundurus, Dragonite, and Rotom-W is also appreciated to compensate for Politoed's low Speed. All of these Pokemon also greatly appreciate rain support; Jirachi takes pitiful damage from Fire-type attacks in rain, Thundurus can sweep with STAB Thunder in rain, Dragonite can abuse Thunder and Hurricane, and Rotom-W can sweep with its double-STAB Hydro Pump and STAB Thunder. With entry hazard support, Politoed is able to achieve OHKOs and 2HKOs it could have never attained before. Ferrothorn, with its 4x Fire-type weakness, loves playing in the rain and can set up Spikes or Stealth Rock depending on what the team needs. It also matches up well against many Pokemon that otherwise bother Politoed, like Latios.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Modest / Timid
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf, Politoed can eliminate many enemy weather abusers with fast super effective attacks or its powerful STAB Water-type attacks. With the popularity of sun- and sandstorm-based teams in the metagame, all Politoed needs to do is switch in to activate Drizzle, and proceed to revenge kill common weather abusers, such as Excadrill, Venusaur, and Sawsbuck with the appropriate moves.</p>

    <p>While weak stat-wise, the extra damage from rain makes Hydro Pump and Surf as powerful as is needed for revenge killing. Whereas Hydro Pump is the more powerful option, Surf is generally more beneficial against weather abusers where reliability matters most. Ice Beam, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power Grass complete this set's coverage, allowing Politoed to check some threats that resist Hydro Pump and Surf. Surf maybe used alongside Hydro Pump over Hidden Power Grass, allowing Politoed to choose between power and accuracy based on the situation.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximize Politoed's Special Attack and Speed with the available EVs as bulk is not especially relevant for this particular Politoed. A Modest nature is primarily used to help Politoed's Special Attack while still allowing it to outspeed common unboosted weather abusers in the rain, including Venusaur, Excadrill, and Sawsbuck. If one decides to use Politoed as a general revenge killer, though, a Timid nature can be used in order to outspeed a wider range of threats. A Timid nature ensures that Politoed outruns +1 Adamant Dragonite, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and positive-natured base 115 Speed Pokemon such as Starmie and Raikou.</p>

    <p>Jellicent and Ferrothorn can sponge Politoed's moves easily thanks to great special bulk and advantageous typing. This Politoed also has issues with bulky Calm Mind boosters such as Reuniclus. Though some of Politoed's faster checks can be removed, Politoed cannot continually switch into powerful attacks due to the lack of defensive investment. Breloom is able to check many of Politoed's counters with STAB Seed Bomb or Focus Punch. Toxicroak can be used in the same vein with a Bulk Up set, with the benefit of Dry Skin keeping it in battle longer. Starmie, Thundurus, Tornadus, and other extremely powerful rain abusers are good options for a team using Choice Scarf Politoed because they can switch in and dole out massive damage against Politoed's traditional checks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Hypnosis / Toxic
    move 3: Encore / Perish Song
    move 4: Protect / Ice Beam / Focus Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> Politoed can opt for a more defensive role, while still providing rain support with Drizzle. While Politoed is by no means the best bulky Water-type or support Pokemon, face it, you'll consider using Politoed for its ability, Drizzle. Unlike the offensive sets, this Politoed is designed to survive for as long as possible until threats—most notably other weather starters—are eliminated.</p>

    <p>As with similar bulky Water-type Pokemon, Scald is the primary STAB attack for its 30% chance to burn the opponent. The rest of the moveslots depend on the user’s preferences. Toxic can be used to soften other walls and tanks, such as Jellicent and Dusclops. While Hypnosis does have rather disappointing accuracy, the possibility of shutting down a threat makes it worth considering. The third moveslot is a toss-up between two extremely useful utility moves. Perish Song is an excellent option on stall teams to stop possible threats that set up, such as Calm Mind Jirachi, Calm Mind Reuniclus, and Baton Pass teams. Meanwhile, Encore can be used to force out a threat that attempts to set up on Politoed.</p>

    <p>
    Since Politoed lacks reliable recovery, Protect can be used in the last slot to gain an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, scout incoming attacks, as well as stall out opposing Pokemon through poison or burn damage. Either Ice Beam, for Dragon- and Grass-types, or Focus Blast, for Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, should be used if you need a coverage option against them.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>There is little to be gained from investing in anything other than Politoed's HP and Defense, since its main job is to remain alive. A specially bulky variant of this set can be used with max Special Defense instead of Defense if the needs of your team call for it.</p>

    <p>Powerful, offensive rain attackers, such as Starmie, Thundurus, and Tornadus, can batter any team with their devastating attacks. Additionally, Thundurus can use priority Thunder Wave to instantly paralyze fast non-Ground-type opponents, notably Dragon-types and Quiver Dance users. Jirachi complements Politoed fairly well, as it can set up on many defensive threats with Calm Mind, or alternatively, provide support with Wish and paralysis. With the use of Perish Song and Encore, Politoed also forces many switches, making entry hazard users such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress (all three of whom appreciate the damper on Fire-type attacks) optimal teammates. Like most defensive Pokemon, Politoed hates dealing with Toxic Spikes. Using Dry Skin Toxicroak takes care of the Toxic Spikes problem while simultaneously keeping Ferrothorn and other problem Pokemon in check. Starmie, while an amazing offensive threat in its own right, is also able to use Rapid Spin and clear the field of all hazards. Finally, since Politoed lacks an instant recovery move, Wish healing from the likes of Blissey, Eviolite Chansey, and Jirachi is appreciated to preserve Politoed's health.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Don't use any of Politoed's other abilities, as if you do, you may as well use a better Water-type like Jellicent or Vaporeon. Politoed’s only other notable support option is Haze. Politoed can also use the RestTalk strategy to keep itself healthy, and this can be particularly annoying combined with Scald's burn chance. Politoed can also forgo Sleep Talk on such a set and pack a Chesto Berry for a one-time no-penalty full recovery.</p>

    <p>Offensively, Politoed does have access to Belly Drum, but lacks the Attack and Speed to utilize a set based around it. Also, quite frankly, you don't want to sacrifice 50% of your weather starter's HP for a sweep that will almost assuredly fail. Politoed can also use Endeavor for a surprise, but in most cases one of its coverage options is the better choice. Politoed can run an all-out offensive set with a non-choice item, such as Life Orb or Leftovers, but this is generally better left to Politoed's offensive rain teammates. Lastly, Psychic can be used on any set for screwing with Toxicroak, which otherwise walls Politoed entirely.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Politoed's best switch-ins are those with Water Absorb, a resistance to Water-type attacks, or amazing special bulk. These switch-ins should be mindful of burns from Scald and sleep from Hypnosis, however. Suicune is one of the best Politoed checks, as it can use Calm Mind, Rest, and Sleep Talk to shrug off anything non-Perish Song Politoed uses. If Politoed isn't faster, Suicune usually does not mind Encore either. Jellicent and Vaporeon, both having solid special bulk and Water Absorb, can sponge everything Politoed throws at them bar Toxic. Electric- and Grass-type Pokemon with a strong STAB attack, such as Jolteon, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Shaymin, and Celebi, can usually check Politoed in a pinch. Like the other bulky Water-types, Politoed is extremely susceptible to Toxic and Toxic Spikes, which hinder its longevity significantly. Both Latias and Latios can brush off Ice Beam with their special bulk, and Latias with enough defensive investment can take boosted Hydro Pumps as well. Latias can Calm Mind against Politoed, while Latios outright maims it with Draco Meteor if it stays in. Both should be mindful of Ferrothorn switch-ins, though, and prepare accordingly. Magnezone is a great weapon against a Ferrothorn and Politoed core, with STAB Electric-type attacks for Politoed and Magnet Pull for Ferrothorn.</p>

    <p>Since many rain teams rely on Politoed as their source of power, other forms of weather are checks to Politoed as well. It would be foolish to send in a weather inducer early in the game, only to be defeated by Politoed or its teammates. Abomasnow, with its Ice / Grass typing and good Special Defense, is the only weather inducer that is actually capable of defeating Politoed one-on-one. Notably, if the opposing team happens to contain a Swift Swim user—most commonly Kingdra—Politoed will have to find a way around it without making too many sacrifices. When using other inducers, the best thing to do is to try defeat Politoed as quickly as possible. Due to Team Preview, this may be difficult to execute, but since Politoed lacks recovery and can be crippled with Toxic, it will go down to constant pressure.</p>
  2. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Why is Jibaku's Zekrom mentioned as if it was Politoed?
  3. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Code:
    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Hypnosis
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Ice Beam / Toxic
    nature: Modest
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    1. Always put a space before and after slashes, so it looks like " / "
    2. Very minor, but technically "nature:" goes before "item:"
    3. Since Politoed has more than 1 ability, you must specify which one should be used.

    As for content, I think that Surf should also be an option if you don't want to deal with Hydro Pump's accuracy. However, that could be in either Additional Comments or Optional Changes if need be.
  4. for54years

    for54years

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    That is the model that all formal analysis must follow. I had left it in there for my reference while I was getting the skeleton posted.
    Thank you for your help, Ditto. Changes are made, and I added the 3 other effective OU sets for Politoed that I've seen.
  5. soonerorlater

    soonerorlater

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    each set should have "Set comments" and "Additional comments"
    each analysis should have "Other options," "Team options," and "Counters"
    (Dream World is unnecessary, imo, since Drizzletoed has been released.)

    HP Electric or Grass should be slashed in with Hypnosis on Choice sets, since Hypnosis means either you miss and take damage, or you sleep something, and now you're forced to switch, so you don't break the sleep clause.
  6. for54years

    for54years

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    Thanks for pointing that out to me. I wound up not using HP myself, due to the underwhelming amount of damage even in super-effective situations, but it may work for a different play style. Changes are made to incorporate your comments.
  7. AuhsojSivart

    AuhsojSivart

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    Here's a set I've been running with quite a bit of success:

    name: Endeavor Lead
    move 1: Endeavor
    move 2: Hypnosis
    move 3: Hydro Pump / Boil Over / Surf
    move 4: Ice Beam
    nature: Modest
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 56 HP / 200 Def / 252 SpA
    ivs: 0 Spe

    The 0 speed ivs are to make sure that Drizzle comes out against other weather users.
  8. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin's #1 Fan and Ghoster
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    I think you should condense the defensive sets into one set, as they are fairly similar. Specially defensive should be the primary option, anyway, as Politoed's typing and stats are more suited towards switching in on common special attackers, such as Heatran and Octillery. The set should also be something like this:

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Boiling Water
    move 2: Hypnosis / Toxic
    move 3: Encore / Perish Song
    move 4: Ice Beam / Focus Blast
    nature: Calm
    item: Leftovers

    Substitute isn't particularly useful on Politoed.

    I would also shift the Specs set to the last position; Scarf and defensive have more utility, although Specs has decent surprise value.
  9. Juice!

    Juice!

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    I've been using this set as a lead on my rain team with a fair degree of success.

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Calm
    252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
    -Boil Over
    -Perish Song
    -Toxic
    -Protect

    I like Protect because it does all sorts of neat stuff like block random Fake Outs, helping Perish Song count down sooner, racks up Toxic damage, etc...

    I know this is fairly similar to your defensive sets, so I guess my point is that Protect should at least be slashed after Encore maybe? =)
  10. Agonist

    Agonist He had seen it, felt its might, bent under
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    would HP Fire have any merit on the first set? Being able to take out Abomasnow easily, as well as Nattorei, without having to rely on focus blasts shaky accuracy, as well as serving as a deterrent from other grass pokemon from coming in, and killing you.
  11. for54years

    for54years

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    This is a very interesting set. I will make a point to playtest it.
    Thank you for your input. Changes are made.
    You're right - Protect is a good option. Politoed's support movepool is so huge, though, that I'm afraid of making such a slash-heavy set write up.
    Just say no to fire attacks and Politoed, period. The reason Tyranitar works so well with it is that it can come in and actually threaten to OHKO Nattorei with Fire Blast, thanks to the weather cancellation. But a Base 90, Neutral-Natured, Rain-Weakened HP Fire isn't even going to dent Nattorei, who can easily OHKO back with Power Whip.
  12. AuhsojSivart

    AuhsojSivart

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    The set I posted should probably use Quiet nature rather than Modest. I don't know why I didn't think of that.
  13. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Just curious but what does HP Grass cover that HP Electric doesn't in regards to the main option ? Like isnt hitting Gyara and still maintaining coverage on other waters way more useful than like Quagsire/Gastrodon (which no one uses anyway) ?
  14. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Swampert.
  15. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck <kryptonite intensifies>
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    The Specially Defensive set needs EVs. (and, I guess, an ability)
  16. for54years

    for54years

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    this^
    Thanks, I had just cut and pasted Et Tu Mortis' set in place of the one I had posted before. It's fixed now.
  17. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Well im not sure how good hitting Swampert really is with HP Grass considering;

    A Choice Specs Surf in the rain does : 76.3% - 89.8% to 252 HP / 0 SDef Swampert.

    Timid Scarf Surf in rain also 2hko's with SR support, sometimes without doing up to 54%

    Just that i dont really see Swampert as a threat compared to that of Gyara.

    But yeah its up to you lol
  18. for54years

    for54years

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    Fair enough. I'll switch the two, and change the additional comments to discuss Swampert.
  19. Trex

    Trex

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    I have been using an amazing set even though the EVs might seem weird.

    name: Bulky Scarfer
    move 1: Boiling Water
    move 2: Hypnosis
    move 3: Encore
    move 4: Ice Beam
    nature: Timid
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Drizzle
    evs: 252 Hp / 4 SpAtt / 252 Spe

    Doesn't have a lot of fire power, but can kill weakened Pokes. The advantages of using this set are that you can get rain up multiple times against other weather teams, and Encore screws over many Pokemon. I don't know why, but it is very effective.
  20. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Um, small nitpick in your Team Options section. Seeing as the only reason you'd be running Politoed is to get Heavy Rain up and running, why would you be using Tyranitar on the same team? That's pretty much counter-productive, unless you're using some odd Double Weather team.
  21. for54years

    for54years

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    Okay, I'll make sure to test this.

    That's exactly the reason - rain either reduces or eliminates many Steel-types' weaknesses to Fire. Pokemon such as Nattorei, Skarmory, or Forretress can be the bain of a rain-based team's existence. With Tyranitar, you can 1 or 2hko these trouble mons, and then just switch in Politoed to get the desired weather on the field once Tyranitar's job is done.
  22. Mew

    Mew

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    Fast Burugeru's with Taunt and Recover counter pretty much all sets of Poilitoed. Maybe he deserves a mention as he resists or is immune to Boil Over/Surf, Ice Beam and Focus Blast.
  23. for54years

    for54years

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    Yes, any Water Absorb mon is a pretty good answer to Politoed. However, I'm apprehensive about listing every specific bulky water in the Counters section, since they all work pretty well. Hydration Vaporeon is also a pretty great answer, and may see more use if Manaphy gets banished to Ubers. I'll think about adding Burungeru to that list.
  24. The Main

    The Main

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    I have a weird suggestion;
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Belly Drum
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Bounce / Hypnosis
    Nature: Jolly
    item: Salac Berry
    Trait : Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Attack / 252 Spe

    EVs are for maximum bulk and speed, for durability. Sub or Belly drum on the switch, and do the other one, activate Salac, and sweep with unresisted moves, for the exception of Dialga and Empoleon.
  25. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

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    Not only is this outsped by scarfed anything plus every swift swimmer and resisted by Empoleon, but it's crucial to keep your weather user alive in a weather duel. I can't see a team that would benefit from this set.

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