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Politoed

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SJCrew, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    [​IMG]

    Old analysis

    [Overview]

    <p>Drizzle had been long overdue to test the waters of a standard metagame, and it was a wise decision to release the ability in a generation where OU is more powerful than ever. The weather has a phenomenal effect on OU, with various offensive and defensive perks that any OU team can take advantage of. Rain's dominance is undeniable; the stormy weather singlehandedly accounts for the viability of Pokemon such as Gastrodon, who is seemingly designed to defend against rain teams, and Tornadus, whose signature Hurricane saves it from obscurity. The potency of rain stall must also be recognized; rain turns previously annoying support Pokemon, such as Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi, into defensive stalwarts.</p>

    <p>But who's the lucky winner in our Dream World lottery? None other than the Pokemon from GSC that everyone forgot about: Politoed. With such lackluster stats and a strictly average movepool, it's easy to see why our froggy friend has remained unused in every competitive metagame since it was introduced. However, with former greats such as Suicune and Empoleon bumming in the depths of UU while Politoed maintains higher usage than ever, Drizzle's influence says more than enough about Politoed's role in OU.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Surf
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Being able to deal with this set is a requirement for OU teams. Politoed might not have the most dangerous stats or movepool, but the viability of this set is determined by its ability to summon rain upon entry, making its STAB attacks considerably more dangerous. The boost from Choice Specs and rain more than doubles the power of Hydro Pump, which allows it to 2HKO some of the most specially bulky Pokemon in OU, including Jirachi, Latios, and Mew. It is not easy to switch in a Pokemon that simply resists Water-type attacks due to its massive damage output. To illustrate the might of its Drizzle-enhanced power, here is a small list of common Politoed checks that should almost never switch into Hydro Pump:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Salamence: 68.3% - 80.7%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Salamence: 75.8% - 89.4%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Haxorus: 95.6% - 112.6%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Hydreigon: 63.1% - 74.5%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Hydreigon: 70.2% - 82.8%</li>
    <li>Hydro Pump vs. 252/252+ Deoxys-D: 63.5% - 75%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Even without coverage, only the bulkiest of resists are capable of tangoing with the walking flood that is Politoed. One of the few things stopping Politoed from drowning everything in its path is Hydro Pump's imperfect accuracy, as a 20% deduction has a proven side effect of costing games. In case you want to play it on the safe side, Surf is a viable option in lieu of or alongside Hydro Pump to ensure that an untimely miss doesn't come into play during the simple act of revenge KOing a target.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam, Hidden Power Grass, and Focus Blast all serve a similar function in tripping up Politoed's usual checks, provided you can predict their switch-in. Ice Beam prevents the likes of Latias and Dragonite from switching in and setting up freely, while also warding off Celebi and Virizion, who can take a Hydro Pump better than most. Hidden Power Grass is Politoed's best option against both Gastrodon and Jellicent, who make most of Politoed's offensive options useless. Focus Blast will probably see the least use of the three coverage options, as its only notable targets are Ferrothorn and the odd Abomasnow; however, Ferrothorn's omnipresence and Politoed's lack of convincing other options makes it the optimal choice for the third slot. Do keep in mind that it's usually safest to open up with a STAB attack, as its coverage moves are much weaker and easy to punish.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Specs Politoed is a perfect fit for offensive rain teams. The front-runner of its teammates is Tornadus-T, whose commanding speed, powerful Hurricane, and Regenerator help it break down and outlast the common enemies of rain teams, such as Ferrothorn, Latios, and Latias. Following behind it is Keldeo, whose 129 base Special Attack and secondary Fighting typing allows it to threaten both Ferrothorn and Chansey, making it a valuable asset to rain teams. Thundurus-T is as dangerous a teammate as it is an enemy; its Volt Absorb negates the Electric attacks used against Politoed and its teammates while the rain increases its Thunder's accuracy to perfection, allowing it to deal major damage even to the Pokemon that resist it. Starmie is also a powerhouse under the rain, sporting a souped-up Hydro Pump and powerful Electric-type coverage with Thunder.</p>

    <p>Politoed really shouldn't be using anything other than the moves listed above, but as a passing recommendation, Psychic can be useful over Focus Blast for preventing easy setup from Venusaur, Toxicroak, and Tentacruel. Perish Song is also a good last-ditch attempt to defeat Calm Mind users and especially bulky walls during the endgame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Protect / Ice Beam / Refresh
    move 3: Perish Song / Encore
    move 4: Toxic / Hypnosis
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Politoed is a competent special attacker thanks to Drizzle, but the only thing it needs to do in order to support its team is survive. To this end, a defensive Politoed can be a valuable asset, with access to some of the most infuriating support moves in the game. Scald is the worst of them all; someone at Gamefreak apparently decided Water-types weren't good enough, so they were granted the ability to deal decent damage and burn opposing switch-ins with one move. The threat of a burn is enough to keep Ferrothorn at bay, as a burned Ferrothorn is easy prey for Substitute users such as Gyarados, Landorus, and Gliscor.</p>

    <p>Protect further aids Politoed's stalling capabilities by scouting the opponent's moves while residual damage slowly withers away their HP. In addition, it garners free Leftovers recovery from its guaranteed safety, giving it further survivability despite of its lack of reliable recovery moves. Perish Song works brilliantly in tandem with Protect by discouraging the opponent from staying in and attacking as the count goes down. An alternative approach to warding off set up sweepers is the use of Encore and Ice Beam; Ice Beam is the one thing standing between Dragonite and several Dragon Dances, while other set up sweepers are thwarted by Encore, forcing them to boost futilely as a check switches in. Last but not least are Politoed's status attacks of choice, Toxic and Hypnosis. Toxic is preferred alongside Protect and Perish Song, allowing Politoed to force switches, spread poison, and wither away the HP of Pokemon it is normally helpless against, including enemy bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Water Absorb Vaporeon. Hypnosis does not require a specific combination of moves in order to work, making it useful in nearly any situation. Its only real limitations are its low accuracy and Sleep clause, but it's a welcome balance for the ability to disable one Pokemon on the opposing team nigh permanently.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>There are a few other options worth considering to keep Politoed healthy. Chesto Berry + Rest is a tried and true combination for defensive Pokemon with no recovery, and Politoed can make good use of it as a one-time full heal. The downside to this, aside from only being useful once, is that Politoed can't make use of Leftovers to heal throughout the battle. Refresh allows Politoed to heal status ailments at no cost, which can be extremely useful in the war of attrition versus Pokemon such as Ninetales and Heatran, who often employ the use of status attacks to wear Politoed down.</p>

    <p>Concerning teammates, this Politoed is often seen on more defensive teams, or as a glue for offensive teams. Its defensive partners include Jirachi, who takes no scuff from Grass-type attacks, or the likes of Latios and Hydreigon under rain, Tentacruel, who uses its increased longevity from Rain Dish to set up Toxic Spikes and stall out the opposition with Protect, and Ferrothorn, whose reduced Fire weakness allows it to shrug off the damage from a stray Hidden Power Fire and set up hazards with further impunity. Ferrothorn also counters Electric-types who would otherwise give rain teams problems.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Perish Song / Hypnosis / Encore
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Politoed is a far cry from the best revenge killer, but a Choice Scarf gives it a chance to flex its power on much faster foes. With a Choice Scarf equipped, Politoed can outpace any Pokemon under 130 base Speed and assail it with the corresponding attack. Hydro Pump gives it just enough power to KO Tornadus-T reliably with as little as one round of Life Orb recoil, and 2HKO the likes of Starmie, Rotom-W, and Salamence with the help of Stealth Rock. Surf is a reliable secondary STAB attack whose reliability is crucial in the face of dangerous setup sweepers, such as Terrakion and Thundurus-T, that can use a missed opportunity to turn the game around. Ice Beam is also a vital move for this set, revenge KOing not only the likes of an unboosted Haxorus, Salamence, or Hydreigon, but even an Adamant Dragonite with a Dragon Dance under its belt (Multiscale notwithstanding).</p>

    <p>The fourth moveslot is Politoed's last resort, useful in situations where simply attacking will not get the job done. A quick Perish Song can really ruin a Calm Mind Jirachi's or Reuniclus's day, and is Politoed's only chance at forcing either foe to switch. This is especially useful against pesky Substitute users, such as Gliscor, who are forced to forfeit their momentum before the timer runs down. A fast Hypnosis is also useful in allowing Politoed to disable a threatening sweeper or punish a switch. With precise prediction, Encore can lock a supporting Pokemon into a harmless attack, and give defensively lacking sweepers such as Lucario an easy chance to switch in and set up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The primary function of this set is revenge killing, but a Choice Scarf opens Politoed up to issues it wouldn't have to address with the commanding power of a Choice Specs or the ability to switch moves with Leftovers. For example, Gastrodon is nigh impossible to wear under normal circumstances. To address this issue, one can add to the ranks a considerably bulky Grass-type that can absorb status attacks (Celebi and Lum Berry Virizion come to mind) or set up hazards and predict with Hidden Power Grass. Overall, this set is completely useless against defensive playstyles, so especially potent stallbreakers such as Bulk Up Breloom and Toxicroak can exploit the presence of an enemy Chansey or Blissey for easy switch-ins and setup. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Focus Blast
    move 4: Hypnosis / Encore / Perish Song
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A common criticism for Choice-item wielding Politoed sets is that being locked into any move other than its STABs leaves it vulnerable to opposing setup. This set has virtually no problem with setup sweepers, as it has just the right moves to foil their every attempt. The power of Hydro Pump is necessary for allowing Politoed to 3HKO specially defensive Tyranitar under sand and 2HKO Ninetales under sun. Ice Beam punishes any Dragonite or Hydreigon attempting to set up on Politoed and deals major damage to Breloom and Latios on the way in. The third move slot is a bit trickier, as both moves provide important coverage: Ferrothorn will not want to switch in on Focus Blast, and both Gastrodon and Rotom-W loathe Hidden Power Grass. Tyranitar also fears Focus Blast, suffering a 2HKO even with a specially defensive set in sand.</p>

    <p>The final move slot allows Politoed to aggravate any Pokemon it cannot outright KO. Hypnosis can cripple any Pokemon that switches in, save for Natural Cure users such as Chansey, Blissey, and Celebi. Predictable setup sweepers such as Latias are foiled with Encore, which locks them into their boosting move while a threatening teammate comes in to finish the job. Finally, there's Perish Song. While this set lacks any real methods of stalling, the function of the move remains useful in forcing any defending Pokemon to switch before the third turn expires. Ferrothorn makes a good switch-in to most Pokemon under rain, and can use its own Protect to stall out the Perish Song turns in place of Politoed while setting up Spikes as the opponent switches.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This Politoed is best for offensive teams that cannot sacrifice even an ounce of their momentum. In place of Hydro Pump, Surf or Scald are usable alternatives, each for different reasons: the burn rate of Scald helps defeat Ferrothorn when not using Focus Blast, while Surf is a reliable all-purpose attack with perfect accuracy and the power to KO many Pokemon that don't resist it. A Water Gem makes a shockingly useful tool for this set, allowing Politoed to bluff a Choice item when using a coverage move, and save its STAB attack as a trump card. Wobbuffet might be a rare sight in OU these days, but at max Speed, it can outpace any Politoed at minimum Speed and lock it into an undesirable move with Encore. A Politoed player can cover for this contingency by sparing at least 24 EVs for Speed, which allows it to switch to a safer attack to use against Wobbuffet, such as Hypnosis.<p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Politoed has a physical movepool consisting of Waterfall, Earthquake, Ice Punch, and Payback; moves that can be used to hit the likes of Tyranitar and Latias harder than the rest of its options. Belly Drum increases its Attack stat to sky-high levels, which is surprising for a Pokemon with only75 base Attack—all at the cost of 50% of its HP. Difficulty of setup aside, Politoed will almost never be able to pull off a sweep after a Belly Drum boost, even with a Salac Berry. Haze is a good move, but Politoed doesn't have the defenses to stop setup sweepers in their tracks. The best it can do is wipe away their boosts while taking a major blow, and then switch out to a better check. Rest and Sleep Talk are fairly useful options for a defensive Politoed, giving it some means of recovery outside of Leftovers to survive weather wars. It is recommended to carry a teammate with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to relieve Politoed of its sleep status, as the new sleep mechanics of Black and White force the defending Pokemon to wait out its sleep turns all in one sitting in order to cure. Much to any rain player's chagrin, Politoed is unlikely to survive those turns under the heat of offensive pressure.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Politoed is powerless outside of rain, so it stands to reason that its mortal enemies are not only Pokemon that can switch in and KO it, but Pokemon that can change the weather. The mere presence of an enemy weather setter is enough to change any rain team's game plan in favor of keeping Politoed alive. Eternal sun is simply a nightmare for rain, lowering the accuracy of Thunder and Hurricane, while also weakening Water-type moves. The battle is all but won once the weather war is in a Drought team's favor. However, Ninetales is a Pokemon that requires a dedicated crew as well, even moreso than Politoed due to its common weaknesses, so slapping it on one's team is usually not the best solution for combating rain. On a dedicated Sun team, Ninetales can use Sunny Day as Politoed switches in to reverse the rain team's momentum and threaten Politoed with SolarBeam, or eliminate Politoed with a +2 Energy Ball. Tyranitar can easily trap a Politoed locked into Ice Beam with Pursuit. Abomasnow laughs at all of Politoed's attacks, save for Focus Blast.</p>

    <p>Even under ideal weather conditions, many OU Pokemon can exploit Politoed's mediocre stats. Defensively, Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, and Jellicent have little trouble switching into Politoed unless it predicts with a Specs Focus Blast or Hidden Power Grass, respectively. Ferrothorn uses its free turns to set up a minefield of hazards for its teammates, while Gastrodon can use the +1 boost from Storm Drain to threaten Politoed's teammates. Keldeo freely sets up Calm Minds on Politoed lacking Encore, as do Latios, Latias, and Virizion. Celebi has no trouble switching into a non-Specs Ice Beam and can recover the damage as Politoed switches, or even leech HP from Politoed with its STAB Giga Drain and Leech Seed. Rotom-W, Jolteon, Zapdos, and Raikou keep both Politoed and its teammates in check with STAB Electric-type attacks. They can Volt Switch away from incoming counters and Rotom-W can burn Ferrothorn with Will-O-Wisp, making Ferrothorn much easier to handle.</p>

    <p>Most prominent offensive Pokemon in OU carrying a Choice Band or Choice Specs can simply KO Politoed without much prior damage. For example, a Choice Band Terrakion can KO a defensive Politoed with up to 77% of its health left. Specs Latios and Hydreigon both OHKO Politoed most of the time with Draco Meteor, requiring no prior damage whatsoever. Haxorus, Dragonite, and Lucario can also KO a relatively healthy Politoed using their STAB attacks and a Choice Band. A special mention goes to Gothitelle and Dugtrio for being able to trap and KO a weakened Politoed. With the help of Choice Specs, Gothitelle can KO even a healthy Politoed with Thunderbolt.</p>
  2. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene hold me, whatever lies beyond this morning is a lil later on
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    [SET]
    name: 3 Attacks
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Perish Song / Encore
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    I think the 3 attacks set seen above deserves a spot in the analysis. While it has neither the power of the Specs set nor the revenge killing abilities of the Scarf set, I believe it deserves a spot in the analysis because of the ability to switch moves and maintain a respectable amount of bulk.
  3. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    I know you're not finished yet, but for Specs, maybe put a bulky spread in AC? Something like 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe with a Modest nature could work so you can tank a couple of hits and hit back really hard.

    Also, according to my QC assignment thread:
    I'd probably move Scarf up to number 2, or move Specs down a bit and put Scarf in number 1, simply because Politoed is more useful than ever with it, you can outspeed therian forms with it, which is pretty damn useful for a rain team to have.

    Like I said, I'd like to see a disclaimer when using Perish Song about opponents using Dugtrio and Wobbuffet, simply because of the sheer amount of stupidity I've encountered when people have used it against me. Even something like a "When using Perish Song, remember to scout Team Preview for opposing trappers. Smogon University is not liable to compensate for any Politoeds lost via stupid play. Have a nice day" would be nice.

    Lastly, 3 attacks looks fine, you could probably put it in, although I'm very tempted to just slash it with Specs and call it "Special Attacker", but I know that's probably not going to be accepted. Otherwise, any defensive set that Politoed runs should run 24 Speed EVs to outspeed Wobbuffet (Specs is fine because you're locked into a move anyway).
  4. Cherub Agent

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    Possibly mention that Surf is an option over Focus Blast in the AC of the Specs set, as sometimes Politoed doesn't need the pure firepower of Hydro Pump, and likes to fall back on a more reliable STAM move. Also for the 3 attacks set, I've had massive success with Water Gem as the item, as luring opponents into thinking you're using like scarf ice beam or HP grass, and then nailing them with what is basically a specs hydro pump is immensely satisfying. might also deserve an AC mention
  5. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I think Specs needs a bulky spread similar to the 3 attacks set (252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe). A max speed spread should go into AC, probably with a timid nature for Breloom. I'm also happy for the two sets to be combined if you want.

    Hidden Power Grass is not a great move on Scarftoed. Bearing in mind that it should now be running a Timid nature, it isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO on Gastrodon after SR. Water-type targets such as Rotom-W only take marginally more from the move than they do from Hydro Pump. So, although I don't think the move should be removed entirely, it most certainly does not deserve a slot to itself. Focus Blast probably ought to have a slot to itself, and then HP Grass can be slashed with Perish Song or even Surf.
  6. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Oh, I'm going to thank jc104 for reminding me, but:

    No. I will never accept Protect being a main slash on ANY set unless it is absolutely integral to the set (Wish/Protect, Poison Heal stalling, Stallrein, Rain Dish Tentacruel). While yes, it gives you a turn of Leftovers recovery, lets you scout things, blah blah blah, but in general, you'd be able to fit a move that is more useful. Like seriously, Politoed has like a million options that would be more useful than Protect. Protect can get a second slash with something if you really want it, but I would never accept it as a first.

    So yeah, this should make things pretty obvious:

  7. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'd be willing to make something of an exception to the general Protect rule for Politoed. It is a Pokemon that MUST keep itself alive, has no other recovery, and actually can't do all that much but spam Scald. The move also works well with both Toxic and Perish Song.

    I think you should move Protect down to the bottom, just because it isn't the 2nd most important move. I'm not sure exactly how to slash things at the moment, but Protect should not be an absolute given.
  8. SJCrew

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    Don't worry too much about the ordering of the moves, nothing is finalized. I just ran out of time for editing and wanted to get the thread up as soon as possible. The defensive set definitely has more options than that I haven't gotten into (Ice Beam, Encore, Refresh), and I haven't written anything about Protect being 'the second most important move on Politoed'. But is it pretty damn important? Yes. A lot of players use it, it helps keep Politoed alive, and it is required alongside Toxic and Perish Song. In fact, the only reason it is not mandatory is because neither are Toxic and Perish Song.

    Hidden Power Grass is most certainly not a vital move for Choice Scarf, and I personally don't use it at all. But there is some justification for using it, and I'd venture to say you'll get a lot more usage out that than Focus Blast, which also does not 2HKO its main target and has shaky accuracy to boot.
  9. jc104

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    Though Focus Blast might not manage to 2HKO Ferrothorn, it hits a whole host of Pokemon significantly harder than its other moves, which HP Grass doesn't. For example, it hits Tyranitar in sand (it OHKOes all but specially defensive sets), Hydreigon (because Ice Beam doesn't do nearly enough), and Abomasnow. Ferrothorn is also a lot more common than Gastrodon, and has no recovery.
  10. Colonel M

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    Protect is probably one of the other reasons why it's difficult for me to get in a Gyarados sweep (though Encore / Perish Song are usually the biggest ones, stopping Bounce sucks since Waterfall is a 2HKO - it may seem "good", but it's annoying as hell). Protect does deserve minor emphasis because, like jc104 said, it's probably Politoed's only way of recovery outside of Wish-passing and you want to keep it alive. It works well in tandem with Perish Song and Toxic, too. Minor emphasis that it can help out on burnt Pokemon, but that depends on the case. I personally wouldn't make it the main option on the slashes, though.

    Encore is also big on the Defensive set. A lot of times I find that Politoed can be setup bait, and using Encore can still be as effective as Perish Song. Even if I Encore something like Toxic, I usually pull out Scizor and either catch opposing Pokemon on the run with Pursuit or get my free U-turn in. You could even Swords Dance if you want with said Scizor.

    - Scald
    - Toxic / Hypnosis
    - Ice Beam / Protect
    - Perish Song / Encore

    This is how it should be slashed IMO.

    And yeah definitely mention about Refresh on the Defensive set, though it seems like you were getting to it and just ran out of time.
  11. Danger Mouse

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    I'd also mention Shadow Tag Gothitelle as a potential check. It can trap Politoed and hit it with a Specs Thunderbolt. It's especially dangerous to the defensive variant, since it can't really do much to prevent Gothitelle from doing its job (scald won't hit hard enough and toxic won't kill Gothitelle before Politoed itself is eliminated).
  12. EonX

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    From using Politoed quite a bit, the Scarf set has been the most effective. HP Grass is pretty damn expendable on the set though since it doesn't even OHKO Gastrodon (only a 48% chance to 2HKO after Rocks) nor does it 2HKO Jelicent (only a 2% chance to 3HKO the Utility Counter set after Rocks) Mention that Jolteon still outspeeds the Scarf set (trolls it by 1 point actually) and that Timid is non-negotiable to outrun Tornadus-T.

    Specs set needs to main a bulky spread IMO. There's almost no reason to run a fast Specs Politoed when you have Keldeo. Keldeo has higher Special Attack, much higher Speed, and a Fighting STAB that actually makes Chansey, Blissey, Ferrothorn, and other weather inducers think twice about switching in. The bulk will be more useful as it lets Politoed take neutral and resisted hits more easily.

    I've never had a problem running Protect on the defensive set as Politoed can Toxic stall some physical threats and it has no other reliable form of recovery. Although I don't think it's mandatory, it is certainly very helpful since Politoed usually needs to stay alive. Also, it helps to scout Choice users like Thundurus-T and Rotom-W to see if they want to predict a switch-in or not.
  13. tab

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    Contrary to this, Protect should be a main slash on defensive Politoed. The only reason to run that set is to have a Politoed that survives as long as possible, and Protect is the best way to make sure that happens. Sure, it's only 6.25% every time you use Protect, but on the kind of teams that you're going to use defensive toed on, that's going to add up and often win you the weather war. Not to mention that CBtar on sand is becoming more popular in BW2, so being able to Protect is pretty huge there.
  14. Ojama

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    Protect is obviously a main slash on Defensive Politoed, what did you smoke shrang ?
  15. shrang

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    Problem is that it's not like Politoed is starved for options. He has plenty of support options that are more useful than Protect. Seriously, look at the moves that Politoed has access to: Ice Beam, Focus Blast, HP Grass, Haze, Perish Song, Encore, Refresh, Psychic, Hypnosis. I would personally prefer Scald / Perish Song (or Encore) / Ice Beam / Toxic. He has bad enough 4MSS as is.
  16. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse

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    Protect can also extend toxic damage and stall out turns of perish song...whenever i run the defensive set I always find it to be extremely useful...
  17. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
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    I don't think I've ever seen anyone even half decent run defensive toed without protect. but ok.
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Sorry, shrang. Politoed may have a multitude of options, but really none of them are actually that useful. The fact that you consider them to be equally useful really has no impact on whether to run Protect or not. The number one thing I do with my Politoed is spam Scald, no question. It's Politoed's strongest move by a long shot. But I also always have protect on there, because other than Scald it's the only move I KNOW I'm going to use. It provides a minor benefit, but provides it often. Really often.

    Protect helps Politoed to do what it's supposed to do, and that is first and foremost to survive. On top of that, it works well in tandem with Toxic, Perish Song, and Scald burns. It seems like a perfect fit. Should be a main slash on the set, but it's also clearly not compulsory like scald is. Scald is the only compulsory move on defensive Politoed.

    I apologise for reminding you.
  19. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I partially take back what I said - after thinking about it with Choiced Pokemon like Genesect and Tyranitar, I think it being a main slash is fine. Protect can be a mixed bag, but it provides more positives than negatives. But I do want to point out that I have run non-Protect Politoed just fine.

    Scald
    Protect / Ice Beam
    Perish Song / Encore
    Toxic / Hypnosis

    That should be how it works. AC mention Refresh to spare Politoed from status, but also mention the possible sacrifices that are made with it moveslot-wise.

    I also would like to point out that I feel running Defensive Politoed without one of Perish Song or Encore is absurd, and thats why I situated the options like I did. Without one of these moves, setup sweepers such as SubDD Kingdra just laugh at you.
  20. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
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    Would it be possible to put Substitute in OO? I've used it successfully in the past; it gives you the edge in matchups against walls like Gastrodon and Water Absorb Vaporeon because you can use Substitute before they can poison you, allowing you to poison them. It also allows somewhat safer prediction and lets you stay in for an extra turn against something that'll break your substitute. I'm not saying it should even be included on the sets (Protect seems much more viable in the first place) but not giving it even an OO mention wouldn't be doing it justice.
  21. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    I think the scarf should be
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Perish Song/Hypnosis/Encore

    with HP Grass getting an AC mention, because HP Grass is really weak and only useful against Gastrodon (it does 50-60% wich shows how patheically weak it is).
    Not sure about the order of moves on the last slot , but all of them are good options. Hypnosis is always a good move to use on turn one as it will likely put a counter to sleep wich is propably the best thing Toed can do at the start of the match (that it forces a double switch isn't really cool, but it could be worse).
    Perish Song is always a huge boon against BP teams and some bulky set- up sweepers.
    I am not 100% sure if Encore should get a slash or just an AC mention, because it is a little more situational but a fast Encore can safe you a game and it absolutly needs to get mentioned somehow.

    Edit: I am not that convinced that substitute is really doing you good. Its great against other toxic users, but Protect has much more benefits and losing 25% of health on a Pokemon that:
    a) wants to stay alive the whole game (or at least until the opponents weather inducer is gone)
    b) got no recovery outside of rest and lefties
    c) is set-up fodder for a lot of dangerous Pokemon that won't care about the sub at all because you can't really hurt them

    isn't a good idea. Protect does not 100% outclass it, but will be superior in the long run
  22. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    I discussed Scarf with QC, and AC for Hidden Power Grass is good. I don't use or endorse the move (I opt for Electric, personally), but it has its uses. Focus Blast isn't a great move either, and you'll rarely use it, but it hits a few damn important targets and that should be enough. Truth be told, I'm on board with it mostly because it's more effective for revenging Hydreigon than Ice Beam.
  23. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I approve of the sets posted by BurningMan and Colonel M.

    Can we think about adding a bulky spread on specs now? And can we add the three attacks set either as a set on its own or by slashing it onto specs?
  24. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    I am really for adding a bulky spread to Specs, because the extra bulk is very useful for staying alive or just getting a second hit in. The only useful thing about the speed investment is outspeeding some defensive Pokes that can't really hurt you with the defensive spread anyways. No HP investment Toed isn't exactly frail but much easier to one shot compared to full HP Investment toed wich has roughly a 70% chance to survive a Specs DM from Latios. The bulky Spread turns Specs toed into a moderatly bulky and extremely powerful tank.

    Honestly i never got why QC did dissmiss the bulky spread for a Pokemon that is likely the most important one on your team and often needs to stay alive through the whole length of the match.
  25. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    As I said earlier, Politoed needs a bulky spread on the Specs set now more than ever thanks to Keldeo's presence. Personally, whenever I used Specs Toed in BW1, I ran a 248 HP / 252 SAtk spread with the extra 8 EVs going into Speed to outrun uninvested base 70s (like Skarmory and opposing Politoed) and it always went a lot better than a max Speed spread. You should have something defensive for faster threats anyway since Politoed will be locked in on a move, so the Speed rarely mattered at all in the first place. Max Speed is useful for Breloom I guess, but that's about it imo.

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