Politoed

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
If you guys want to use Politoed, it should be very very defensive in order to allow it to switch into Tyranitar when needed:

Politoed @ Leftovers
Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
-Surf
-Toxic
-Perish Song
-Ice Beam/Encore

There is really no use in using a sweeper set on Politoed; it's main purpose is to keep rain up for your swift swimmers, and no HP or defense EVs puts a huge damper on its survivability.

Also, always pair it up with Wishers and Clerics. Blissey/Vappy are good options for this.
 
If you guys want to use Politoed, it should be very very defensive in order to allow it to switch into Tyranitar when needed:

There is really no use in using a sweeper set on Politoed; it's main purpose is to keep rain up for your swift swimmers, and no HP or defense EVs puts a huge damper on its survivability.

Also, always pair it up with Wishers and Clerics. Blissey/Vappy are good options for this.
While I agree with this, Politoed also works very well as a special sponge. With 100 base SpDef vs 75 base Def, Poli will only fear STAB Thunderbolts and Thunders. I use mine to soak up draco meteors and then recover with protect + lefties.

The important thing is that Politoed can be a very effective member of the team. Yes his niche is rain support, but he can in fact do much more.
 
You guys are going to hate me, but since Politoed has been officially released in the DW and his special moves are known, we can now go into move combination legality issues with Drizzle. Egg moves are fine, gen IV only moves are a problem. He gets Sleep Talk in the DW, however it does not pass down so any Politoed with Sleep Talk can have no Egg Moves so...

Upstart's ~ Rest Talker ~
Encore is illegal with Sleep Talk if you're going to use Drizzle.

I checked every other set suggested and they all look fine.

My opinion about Politoed: Arguably the best weather inducer, and this is not because I am a toed fanboy, I actually like Ninetales a lot better. Here's why the Toed is awesome:

-Good bulk with the best defensive mono type in the game. There are so many weather inducers your personal one needs to survive. Only Hippo does this better imo and that's because he has Slack Off. Drizzletoed's rain interrupts Solar Beam, Grass Knot is only 60 power against him, and Energy Ball has many users, but hits Toed on his bulkier side. Power Whip/Wood Hammer can do a number to the guy, but there aren't a ton of good users (Abomasnow, Venusaur, Tangela come to mind). Just coming out he neutralizes Chlorophyllers' speed boost and possibly their main STAB - Solar Beam (the Beam won't last for long, people will probably run Energy Ball or Giga Drain instead). He is asking to be struck by Thunder, but I've seen very few pokemon that run it w/o rain support (that might become more common however). If your opponent has Rain Support then it really doesn't matter if your toed dies. His two weaknesses can easily be covered by some great rain-abusers, including Zapdos and Nattorei. Lightning Rod and Herbivore can make trying to hit a Politoed SE a big mistake.

-His STAB is SE against all non-rain weather inducers other than Abomasnow. He gets Focus Blast and Brick Break to deal with him. Sun does neutralize his STAB, but Hydro Pump is still SE and 120 BP. Also, running a fighting move on him helps deal with Ttar more easily, particularly if Sand Storm is up.

-Rain is definitely the second-best, if not the best weather (Sand Storm did get some epic improvements with Sand Throw and Strength). Rain is versatile. You don't have to worry about residual damage on your own pokemon if you chose to use other types than water. As a matter of fact, it's amazing with Steel types, neutralizing one of their weakness (though it does virtually give them a weakness to water), and can also be used to help defensive Bug and Grass pokemon with their myriad of weaknesses (just don't use synthesis/moonlight/morning sun). Guys like Scizor, Forretress, and Nattorei become even better with Rain support, as it halves their 4x weakness. In general, water is a great attacking type and can reach near perfect neutral coverage with just a normal move (Nattorei kind of screws that up this Gen). Other than Sand-Strength Bullet Punch (which I'm not even completely sure exists), Aqua Jet is the only weather-boosted priority, and it has a ton of great users. I can't really argue too much against Sand Storm, but sun teams can be dubious because most Chlorophyll users are weak to fire, Solar Beam is easily dealt with by another weather-inducer (whereas Thunder and Gale still has a 70% chance to be effective even if the weather is changed), and though Fire pokemon do lose their weakness to water in it, they are still weak to Rock and Ground -- two very common types. Hail's short-comings are pretty obvious, so I won't go into them.

I don't think Kyogre and Politoed should be compared. I feel like it's pretty obvious Game Freak gave these abilities to Toed and Tales so these weather effects would be more prevalent in standard play. Leaving Smogon's tiers out of this, Kyogre and Groudon are banned from almost every local tourney I've been to (allowing ubers in locals only attracts little kids lol) and this year was the first year Nintendo's VGCs allowed them (in recent memory, I don't know much about gen 3 VGCs).

I hope I made some valid points ^^.
 
I'm really excited Drizzletoad is now "legal"...I expect another metagame shift as more weather becomes viable.

Drizzletoad could also be a decent revenger to Doryuuzu. Ninetales can do that better, however (i.e. Dory kills something, send in Ninetales, outspeed and Fire Blast its ass)
 
-His STAB is SE against all non-rain weather inducers other than Abomasnow. He gets Focus Blast and Brick Break to deal with him.
sometime obama isnt OHKOed by FB BB though and theyre going to OHKO with Hammer or Subseed you

-Rain is definitely the second-best, if not the best weather (Sand Storm did get some epic improvements with Sand Throw and Strength). Rain is versatile.
Not as versatile as you though. Rain cant use fire type as well as another weather

I can't really argue too much against Sand Storm, but sun teams can be dubious because most Chlorophyll users are weak to fire, Solar Beam is easily dealt with by another weather-inducer (whereas Thunder and Gale still has a 70% chance to be effective even if the weather is changed), and though Fire pokemon do lose their weakness to water in it, they are still weak to Rock and Ground -- two very common types. Hail's short-comings are pretty obvious, so I won't go into them.
Yup hail is obvious but you musnt underestimate hail team. Its a very poweful team in practice. You better explain its shortcoming for many people to understand how it works

I don't think Kyogre and Politoed should be compared. I feel like it's pretty obvious Game Freak gave these abilities to Toed and Tales so these weather effects would be more prevalent in standard play. Leaving Smogon's tiers out of this, Kyogre and Groudon are banned from almost every local tourney I've been to (allowing ubers in locals only attracts little kids lol) and this year was the first year Nintendo's VGCs allowed them (in recent memory, I don't know much about gen 3 VGCs).

I hope I made some valid points ^^.
Overall nice post though
 
Thanks for the kudos JSND. You proved some pretty good points I missed.

As for hail teams, I enjoy using them, and like Sandstorm, it penalizes your opponent for using anything but specific types. The problem is it penalizes you as well. Gen V helped hail out a lot with upgrades to great hail abusers like Articuno and Regice, and a slew of new non-ice pokemon that don't get damaged by hail, however, you are still extremely limited to the pokemon you can use. Basically 18 fully evolved Ice types, the four fully evolved Magic Guarders, and the six fully evolved Dustproofers (not counting Rankurusu because he also has MG). Mono ice-types have four weaknesses and one measly resistance to Ice. That makes even ice-type combinations have dubious defensive typing. Hail only positively affects one move, Blizzard. Blizzard is an amazing move because Ice is a very good attack type, however to get full use of it you are forced to run special and mixed sets on all of your pokemon. You're also forced to keep Abomasnow alive, which has a 4x fire weakness, along with six other weaknesses. Subseed is about all he does well with 90/75/85 defenses and 60 base speed. He does have a good move pool and his attack typing can surprisingly come in handy, however being one point slower than Ttar means he needs a sub or TR to really get any offensive work done. Hail is useful for aiding stallers and slaying Dragons, however it fails to other weather types in most other aspects. Does that mean hail teams suck? No. It is a high risk/high reward weather type. You risk Terrakion wrecking your entire team, however you gain an excellent stalling aid and an awesome 120 BP ice move to abuse. Rain has less opportunities to aid stalling (there's always Ludicolo ^^), however it boosts every damaging water move, decreases the power of a fairly common attack type, has two great moves that get perfect accuracy in it, and has a plethora of pokemon that work very well in it.
 
I've had large amounts of success with Specs Politoed using a set of Surf/Hydro Pump/Focus Blast/Ice Beam. Hydro Pump OHKOes Ononokusu and 2HKOes 252/0 Nattorei, so obviously it OHKOes everything sans Blissey and Evolution Stone Pokemon that don't resist it (Calm 252/252 Porygon2 gets cleanly 2HKOed, though). Focus Blast is to OHKO most Tyranitar if they try and stay in when they get Sand up against you in the lead position (a Water move will 2HKO any variant that tries to switch in, Careful 252/252 variants need one layer of hazards to be guaranteed) and also hits Nattorei hard. Ice Beam is filler tbh, the Water moves hit plenty hard enough and have less risk in using them if you mispredict.

This thing does so much damage it's ridiculous. People often stay in with their Bulk Up Zuruzukin only to be OHKOed by Hydro Pump. I've had people switch in Espeon on a predicted Hypnosis, only to be OHKOed by Surf. I often win against other weather teams just because I continuously sacrifice my Pokemon just to get Politoed in more, which causes them to lose a member every time until they are forced to sacrifice their own weather abuser, which usually ends up in my win (since my Politoed is alive to bring the weather back). The best part is that Politoed is bulky enough to take weaker hits even without investment, so it can just keep coming back for more.
 
^I agree that Politoed is equally viable offensively, simply because of its rain-boosted STAB attacks. For me, I wanted to test Scarf Politoed as a Pokemon on its own, without building a rain-abusing team around it. Scarf Politoed works really well since it revenges all Doryuuzu and does a crapload of damage to everything. It also outspeeds Adamant +1 Gyarados to hit it with HP Electric. Politoed is viable balanced teams that don't use Fire attacks.
 
After experiencing the might of Toed im going to use defensive set for some reason.
Toed is physically fragile. LO kurimugan OHKO with Outrage (i know its very powerful)
and preserving toed is not as risky as the other weather due to water being such an amazing type making stiicking him as long as possible for wreaking havoc is a very great thing to do. Losing rain is not as risky as losing Sun and maybe hail. This make SS and Rain overall best weather IMO.

Also we need to remember Weather team =/= Mono type or "put 3 Weather affiliation type pokemon in a team and call it a day" team. For example my Hail team only us a whopping 2 ice type in the team. That is what make my team succesful for me by far.
Especialy considering most of weather ace didnt enjoy hail
 
Honestly, Politoed is the scariest weather inducer out of the bunch. Maybe because Boil Over is a bitch. I don't like switching my Nattorei into Boil Over because it does a decent chunk and could possibly burn me, which means my Power Whip doesn't hit stuff like Ludicolo or Kingdra hard enough. On top of that, it has Encore, Hypnosis, and Toxic, so it can really screw over switchins or Pokemon that try to set up on it (CM Suicune). On top of that, its Specs set hits tremendously hard with Hydro Pump as its powerful STAB and Surf as the reliable one. Ice Beam covers random shit like Celebi, and Focus Blast hits other stuff. Whenever I see Politoed, I panic. I'm not sure why but it's frightening.
 
If you're speaking of scary weather-inducers, TTar is by far the most sufficient and powerful outside the lead position.
You never know which set it'll run, be it Scarf, Band, Boah, Curse, Mixed, Special, or support...
Compared to Toed, which btw is completely destroyed by CurseTar and CBTar, TTar has the offensive and defensive presence. It is bulkier on every end of the spectrum.

I find Hypnosis to be a gondsend on Toed, as it can eliminate a counter sent in. I use double status (Hypnosis and Toxic) on my Toed, along with Boil Over and Protect.
 
Tyranitar is 2HKOed by Specs Hydro Pump.

Even in the sand. Even with 252/252+ investment in HP/Special Defence.

Obviously it's good, but saying it destroys Politoed is a fabrication. (It also has much worse typing, so saying it's bulkier is iffy.)
 
Never mind Hydro Pump, it gets 2HKOed by Specs Surf. Ttar really doesn't want to switch into a Boil Over from defensive sets, either. Since Politoed has Encore, Ttar can't even Curse up on it.
 
~ Rest Talker ~
Politoed @ Leftovers
Calm
Drizzle
252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Def
Boiling Water
Encore
Rest
Sleep Talk

Suggested by Upstart. This set has the intention of increasing Politoed's longevity by using RestTalk as a recovery method.
But, how it is possible? Sleep Talk is not a TM anymore....
 
If you're speaking of scary weather-inducers, TTar is by far the most sufficient and powerful outside the lead position.
You never know which set it'll run, be it Scarf, Band, Boah, Curse, Mixed, Special, or support...
Compared to Toed, which btw is completely destroyed by CurseTar and CBTar, TTar has the offensive and defensive presence. It is bulkier on every end of the spectrum.

I find Hypnosis to be a gondsend on Toed, as it can eliminate a counter sent in. I use double status (Hypnosis and Toxic) on my Toed, along with Boil Over and Protect.
Tyranitar isn't the most powerful in the slightest. He gets a special defense boost from his weather, rather than a boost to his STAB. Politoed's Special Attack may be lower than Tyranitar's Attack, but the rain more than makes up for it. Hydro Pump from the Specs set does a ton of damage, while defensive sets carry Boil Over, Encore, Toxic, and Hypnosis. Those moves are all very scary in comparison to lolStone Edge and Crunch.

Tyranitar should never, ever switch into Politoed. Specs Politoed 2HKOs with Hydro Pump in the sand while defensive Politoed could possibly burn you with Boil Over. Curse sets are laughable, as are Dragon Dance sets. Encore ruins you.

EDIT: ninja'd :]
 
What are you talking about?Just because Magmortar beats Scizor dsnt make Magmortar a better poke then Scizor.
Toad has the type advvantage ofcourse Tyranitar will find it hard to switch in.But that in no way is a measure of their utility aginst any other poke.Politoad could never compare with Tyranitars stats and Movepool.Yes he could beat Tyranitar but he will always be inferior.Thats why Toad was NU last gen and Tar was top 3 OU.Even with the ability buff its still not as good as Tyranitar.And just for the fact Toad cant switch into Tyranitar either as it also risks getting 2hk0d even with the most bulky physical spreads.
 
Dream world Politoad is legal now. So i would expect to see rain vs sandstorm for the next few months. I've already seen some Sun in random matches.


But, how it is possible? Sleep Talk is not a TM anymore....
Read the following quote.

Small forest
Miltank F - Iron Tail (4th gen TM move)
Poliwag M - Sleep Talk (4th gen TM move) Not reported on the Japanese wiki.

Shining Ocean
Dratini M - Thunder Wave (level up move)
Corphish M - Endeavour (egg move)
Tentacool M - Supersonic (level up move)

Really great news, rest-talk drizzletoad is legal.
Kudan has told us that it is legal due to the move that Poliwag gets when u transfer it from PGL. Every pokémon gets one or two special moves and sleep talk is in poliwag's moveset. Rest is a tm so there u go.
 
If you guys want to use Politoed, it should be very very defensive in order to allow it to switch into Tyranitar when needed:

Politoed @ Leftovers
Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe
-Surf
-Toxic
-Perish Song
-Ice Beam/Encore

There is really no use in using a sweeper set on Politoed; it's main purpose is to keep rain up for your swift swimmers, and no HP or defense EVs puts a huge damper on its survivability.

Also, always pair it up with Wishers and Clerics. Blissey/Vappy are good options for this.

Perish Song is what I use. It makes people switch out, this is a very helpful set
 
I'm surprised Politoad has no major affect on the meme metagame. I'm sure he is on a level comparable to Slowpoke.
Anyway, his only claim to fame is now setting up the rain, so if his ability is banned at somepoint, he will become obsolete.
 
Is running Water Absorb Politoad even worth considering (for mind games?)
If you don't bring in them in, the ability is impossible to know: given enough pokemon on your team that appear to be suited for rain, your opponent will put two and two together and try to kill Politoad and change the weather (this works for other weathers too btw) to something that "doesn't" benefit you, namely sand. You could basically engineer teams that appear to be weather teams at first glance, but are meant to fool teams and take them by surprise while still functioning fine.
 
Is running Water Absorb Politoad even worth considering (for mind games?)
If you don't bring in them in, the ability is impossible to know: given enough pokemon on your team that appear to be suited for rain, your opponent will put two and two together and try to kill Politoad and change the weather (this works for other weathers too btw) to something that "doesn't" benefit you, namely sand. You could basically engineer teams that appear to be weather teams at first glance, but are meant to fool teams and take them by surprise while still functioning fine.
But WA frog is outclass by Vappy or even Gastrodon
 
Is running Water Absorb Politoad even worth considering (for mind games?)
If you don't bring in them in, the ability is impossible to know: given enough pokemon on your team that appear to be suited for rain, your opponent will put two and two together and try to kill Politoad and change the weather (this works for other weathers too btw) to something that "doesn't" benefit you, namely sand. You could basically engineer teams that appear to be weather teams at first glance, but are meant to fool teams and take them by surprise while still functioning fine.
I don't understand what you're suggesting. You want to make what looks like a rain team but give Politoed Water Absorb instead of Drizzle? Why would you ever want to do that? To surprise the opponent when you reveal that your Politoed is a waste of a team slot, thereby neutering the rest of your team?
 

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