Poliwrath [QC 1/3]

[HJAD]

seeking more opinions on Dat Blast reccomendations on Poliwrath's special set

in the meanwhile i have finished the rest of Poliwrath analysis ready for qc check:
boltsandbombers
Montsegur
Kiyo
Are the main parties involved.

 

[boltsandbombers]

-Be wary of the likes of Samurott, as you dont often know what set they are (in regards to physical or special) so be sure to switch in appropriately once this is determined

I'm not sure how true this is, but unless Samurott is packing HP Electric (which isnt all that common) it cannot touch poliwrath at all. I honestly can't think of something that would fit in that sentence, and if you or someone else can't either then that should be removed.
edit: wait nvm I forgot about grass knot :P

Team Options
=========
The way this is worded is really awkward and you're probably just making it harder for yourself for the writeup. Try and take a look at other analyses for an idea, but the best way to list things in team options is not really a list. For example, the first point would be "entry hazard setters such as ferroseed pair well with poliwrath to increase the residual damage racked up on the opposing team with the use of circle throw"
In addition, there are other spikes setters that can be added apart from ferroseed, such as weezing, roselia, and garbodor. While they don't have the best of synergy, they're still solid teammates.

Steel Types: Help wall stuff that otherwise checks it, like Flying Mons, Psychic Mons and Fairy Mons. Steel types like Klinklang, who can come in on most of Poliwrath's checks, as well as its own checks being weakened by Poliwrath's Circle Throw and Hazards.

This still needs a lot more expanding. Just saying this type mon helps with this type mon can be applied to any tier fwiw, and it's really important to have examples of relevant pokemon. So, something along the lines of "steel-types such as (x) help with psychic, flying, and fairy-types such as (x) which threaten poliwrath with (x)"
Obviously the (x) is where you'd put examples of pokemon that apply to that point you're making.

Specially Defensive Walls: allows for poliwrath to have another option when being threatened by the likes of Swanna etc

Same here pretty much. The sentence itself is kinda vague and idk if swanna is the best example of a special attacker that threatens poli.

Sub Punch
#######

Set Details
=======

-We want Maximum Attack with an adamant nature as to make the most use of focus punch as possible. This is also required to secure OHKO's and 2HKO's on neutral targets with Focus Punch

Make sure to remove the pronoun here and everywhere else (this is a gp thing but it's just helpful removing small errors like this earlier on), and the sentence is too wordy overall. Just say "an adamant nature is used to hit as hard as possible"

-96 Speed allows Poliwrath to reach the crucial 200 speed tier, faster than most walls, therefore it can reliable finish off unaware opposition and/or Substitute before a status move

I'm not disagreeing that the 200 speed tier is really good, but what specific pokemon does that allow poliwrath to outspeed?

Encore the settup sweeper like Feraligatr if it gets out hand

Team Options
========

Ground Types: Stop fast pokemon that check Poliwrath like Rotom from gaining momentum. Pokemon like Mega Camerupt or Rhydon do this to great effect.

Note here that while they do pair well in checking electric types, most ground types compound a grass weakness.

Flying Types: For example Scyther, Swellow and Archeops all benefit from Poliwraths existence on your team as you can use Poliwrath to eliminate their main counters in Rock Type Pokemon (e.g. Rhydon, Carracosta, etc)

Poliwrath isnt eliminating them since rock-types dont switch into poli nor will they stay in. What poliwrath does is threaten / pressure them, and also pairs well with the former two pokemon since they can u-turn out of the rock types into poli.

Add another line here, the general rule of thumb is to have at the very least 3 lines in each section.

Special Attacker
#########

Moves
====

Be sure to have one full bullet point / line for each move listed.

-Focus Blast as your secondary STAB coverage move. It acts as your high power coverage move if you would like to rid of pokemon that otherwise annoy Poliwrath such as Samurott and more so Malamar. Poliwrath with a modest nature 2hkoes Malamar after rocks with Focus Blast.

I mean, samurott isnt staying in on a poliwrath but thats w/e. Add that it also hits seismitoad (2hkoed p.def toad) and ferroseed.
Add what faster pokemon vaccum wave picks off, like tauros, sneasel, cacturne, pyroar, etc
I'm still not sold on Psychic. You only have it listed as "extra coverage" and nothing else - hariyama hates scald burns, gurdurr is 2hkoed by hydro pump, and everything else it would target is hit by ice beam. Psychic should be OO unless you can make a really good case for it.

Set Details
======

Remove Timid from the slash as its not mentioned anywhere in set details, poli really needs modest on this set since it has such a poor spa to start off with.
Does it really need max speed? I'll take a look at speed tiers, but I dunno about that.

A Specially Defensive spread should be mentioned at the very least in OO, maybe even set details.

 

[HJAD]

I'm not sure how true this is, but unless Samurott is packing HP Electric (which isnt all that common) it cannot touch poliwrath at all. I honestly can't think of something that would fit in that sentence, and if you or someone else can't either then that should be removed.
edit: wait nvm I forgot about grass knot :P

Team Options
=========
The way this is worded is really awkward and you're probably just making it harder for yourself for the writeup. Try and take a look at other analyses for an idea, but the best way to list things in team options is not really a list. For example, the first point would be "entry hazard setters such as ferroseed pair well with poliwrath to increase the residual damage racked up on the opposing team with the use of circle throw"
In addition, there are other spikes setters that can be added apart from ferroseed, such as weezing, roselia, and garbodor. While they don't have the best of synergy, they're still solid teammates.


This still needs a lot more expanding. Just saying this type mon helps with this type mon can be applied to any tier fwiw, and it's really important to have examples of relevant pokemon. So, something along the lines of "steel-types such as (x) help with psychic, flying, and fairy-types such as (x) which threaten poliwrath with (x)"
Obviously the (x) is where you'd put examples of pokemon that apply to that point you're making.

Same here pretty much. The sentence itself is kinda vague and idk if swanna is the best example of a special attacker that threatens poli.

Sub Punch
#######

Set Details
=======

Make sure to remove the pronoun here and everywhere else (this is a gp thing but it's just helpful removing small errors like this earlier on), and the sentence is too wordy overall. Just say "an adamant nature is used to hit as hard as possible"

I'm not disagreeing that the 200 speed tier is really good, but what specific pokemon does that allow poliwrath to outspeed?



Team Options
========

Note here that while they do pair well in checking electric types, most ground types compound a grass weakness.

Poliwrath isnt eliminating them since rock-types dont switch into poli nor will they stay in. What poliwrath does is threaten / pressure them, and also pairs well with the former two pokemon since they can u-turn out of the rock types into poli.

Add another line here, the general rule of thumb is to have at the very least 3 lines in each section.

Special Attacker
#########

Moves
====

Be sure to have one full bullet point / line for each move listed.

I mean, samurott isnt staying in on a poliwrath but thats w/e. Add that it also hits seismitoad (2hkoed p.def toad) and ferroseed.
Add what faster pokemon vaccum wave picks off, like tauros, sneasel, cacturne, pyroar, etc
I'm still not sold on Psychic. You only have it listed as "extra coverage" and nothing else - hariyama hates scald burns, gurdurr is 2hkoed by hydro pump, and everything else it would target is hit by ice beam. Psychic should be OO unless you can make a really good case for it.

Set Details
======

Remove Timid from the slash as its not mentioned anywhere in set details, poli really needs modest on this set since it has such a poor spa to start off with.
Does it really need max speed? I'll take a look at speed tiers, but I dunno about that.

A Specially Defensive spread should be mentioned at the very least in OO, maybe even set details.

changes implemented, ready for next problems :]

 

[boltsandbombers]

As I mentioned, remove the Sub Punch set - there were no objections to it from other qc members when I brought it up. As such, mention a sub punch set in OO.

On the special set, remove substitute - I don't see the positive merits of that either, vaccum wave is just that important imo.

As for the EV spread, you don't outspeed anything relevant with max speed.

I'd like to see a spread of 96 / 252 / 160 (for now at least, this can be changed later) as this hits 216 speed, notably outpacing threats such as modest aurorus (vaccuum wave doesnt kill from full hp lol), rampardos (you get one hit off and then vaccuum wave limiting it to just rocks and not allowing it to endeavor you), adamant torterra, neutral natured golurk, exeggutor, and cacturne. To be clear, just list the pokemon that this ev spread allows you to outspeed in set details, the reasoning was just for explanation.

I'd also like to see LO slashed before specs since being able to switch up moves outweighs the power provided by specs, as you still 2hko just about everything your coverage moves target. Also being able to hit a foe with scald / fblast / ice beam and then finish them off with vaccuum wave can be crucial.

Add other grass types as ice beam targets such as gourgeist, tangela, leafeon (focus blast and ice beam do almost the same but ofc you'd rather hit it with an accurate move), and torterra.

In team options, list pokemon that appreciate bulky grass types lured in and 2hkoed or weakened with ice beam such as malamar, leafeon, sawk (fighting spam is pro), torterra, etc

This is looking better, do this and I'll come back for one more look and stamp assuming nothing else needs to be changed.

 

[HJAD]

As I mentioned, remove the Sub Punch set - there were no objections to it from other qc members when I brought it up. As such, mention a sub punch set in OO.

On the special set, remove substitute - I don't see the positive merits of that either, vaccum wave is just that important imo.

As for the EV spread, you don't outspeed anything relevant with max speed.

I'd like to see a spread of 96 / 252 / 160 (for now at least, this can be changed later) as this hits 216 speed, notably outpacing threats such as modest aurorus (vaccuum wave doesnt kill from full hp lol), rampardos (you get one hit off and then vaccuum wave limiting it to just rocks and not allowing it to endeavor you), adamant torterra, neutral natured golurk, exeggutor, and cacturne. To be clear, just list the pokemon that this ev spread allows you to outspeed in set details, the reasoning was just for explanation.

I'd also like to see LO slashed before specs since being able to switch up moves outweighs the power provided by specs, as you still 2hko just about everything your coverage moves target. Also being able to hit a foe with scald / fblast / ice beam and then finish them off with vaccuum wave can be crucial.

Add other grass types as ice beam targets such as gourgeist, tangela, leafeon (focus blast and ice beam do almost the same but ofc you'd rather hit it with an accurate move), and torterra.

In team options, list pokemon that appreciate bulky grass types lured in and 2hkoed or weakened with ice beam such as malamar, leafeon, sawk (fighting spam is pro), torterra, etc

This is looking better, do this and I'll come back for one more look and stamp assuming nothing else needs to be changed.

done, ready for check again.

 

[boltsandbombers]

+ability to wall top tier threats like Malamar, Sneasel, Swords Dance Samurott and Rhydon

Change this to check top tier threats as its not completely walling all of them due to its lack of recovery, and for example rest talk poliwrath loses to sub 3 attacks malamar (which while it may not be nearly as common its still a decent set)

-We want a maximum possible special attack in order to buff is lackluster base 75 Special Attack. This is also why a Modest nature is preferred as well as a life orb as its item. This will also allow the power of vacuum wave to be increased as to revenge kill targets easier, and overall boost Poliwrath's cleaning ability.

This is super small, but its still bothering me. Just word it along the lines of "life orb gives a significant boost to poliwraths attacks and helps patch up its lackluster base special attack"

Remove HP Grass from OO since quagsire is cleanly 2hkoed by hydro / scald / focus blast while seismitoad is 3hkoed at most while it can't do that much back. Add that HP electric should only be used if your team desperately needs a mantine lure.

There's still a bunch things that can be improved here and there, but I'm not going to do everything and you've done enough work on this for the first check.

Fix these 3 things, and you have QC Approved 1/3

 

[Blast]

dropped