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Porygon-Z Suspect Discussion

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Oglemi, Jan 13, 2012.

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  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    What you're expected to do in this thread:

    1. Post which sets you used in the round and what you found good about it, what beat it, etc.

    2. Discuss Porygon-Z's place in the tier, has the metagame adapted properly to it? Does it break the metagame? What counters are there to Porygon-Z?

    3. All Council members are expected to post their thoughts on, experiences using, and experiences against Porygon-Z in this thread. As of now the Council isn't determined, but they will have to eventually!

    4. The Council, when decided, should also post here to figure out a time when they can get on IRC on #rarelyused to have a dedicated discussion on the suspects. Not all Council members are expected to make decided time, but MOST if not all Council members should try their damndest to attend.
  2. -Tsunami-

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    I voted against Porygon-Z last round, but its sheer power and coverage is out of control. Specs just literally shreds teams, Agility can sweep a whole team easily, and its extremely easy to do so with teammates such as Dual Screen Cresselia. Fighting-type usage has gone down too it teams, as expected with the arrival of Cresselia and Sigilyph in RU, making P-Z even harder to kill. Adaptability just lets it destroy anything that doesnt resist it with Tri-Attack, and Download essentially gives it a free boost whenever it switches in on a physically bulky Pokemon. The prevalence of these Pokemon make it even easier for Porygon-Z to destroy with Download. Ghost-types get destroyed by Dark Pulse, and entry hazards can be used to wear down opposing walls and such.
  3. Windsong

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    Personally I'm against the ban on Porygon-Z as I feel that it's not the real culprit, but rather simply broken when receiving the support of one mon - Cresselia. Not to derail the main aspect of the thread, especially as I've been advocating a PZ ban in the past, but at this point, I feel that one of the main things that breaks it is the support offered by Cresselia (specifically for the Agility and NP PZ sets, which go from capable of damaging teams but being stopped by priority and bulky mons to utterly ripping teams apart while barely being phased by priority with screens up). tl;dr, I'm rather neutral on PZ, but I'd prefer for it to stay until we've gotten rid of Cressy.

    edit @below: the "zero safe switch ins" argument is bullshit as full on criteria for a ban. Technically speaking the Choice Specs set can severally cripple and / or 2HKO the entire tier between its three coverage moves provided that there are rocks up. But there are a number of problems with using this as grounds for a full on ban. First off, there are some mons that can switch in on 2 (or hell even 3) of Specs PZ's common moves, such as Aerodactyl and Spiritomb. Specs PZ is also....slow as fuck. If you're using Modest (which is necessary to net 2HKOs on certain special walls), then you're outsped by all the base 80s and 90s in RU. If you're using Timid, you lose the ability to break through some walls and only speed tie with base 90s. Still not great.

    Not saying that it shouldn't be used as a supporting argument towards ban, but you should not state that its ability to 2HKO the entire meta is "reason enough to ban it from RU" because frankly it's not.
  4. skymastergamerpt

    skymastergamerpt

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    First off the Bad thing about Porygon-Z according to its Smogon thread it's that there are 0! Yes you heard it right 0 Safe-Ins in the RU tier for it because it's Choice set can pretty much 2HKO everything on RU metagame be it with Dark Pulse, HP Fighting or Tri Attack (who can either cause burn, paralsys or Freeze) and trick will cripple certain pokemon such as Munchlax and probably even another of the suspect tests Cresselia (not to mention Uxie while we are at it). Basically this first set and it alone is reason enough to ban it from RU.
  5. yee

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    The most suspect set IMO would have to be Specs.

    The power level we're dealing with in Adaptability Tri Attack is a special version of CB Mence Outrage. Looking at the natural bulk level in RU and PorygonZ's usable speed it's not too hard to explain why this is a problem. Max spD Steelix takes 39.3-46.3% from this attack and if it uses Download instead the boost lets it do up to 51.7%. That's as good as switch-ins get really. Other maxed out Rock and Steel types can hold off one hit and Tomb can stop it from spamming Tri-Attack but more likely than not something will get mowed down.

    Nasty Plot / Agility

    Nasty Plot is a broken force because Stall is pretty much hopeless against it. Even max spD Munchlax is taking almost 2/3s from a boosted Tri Attack, which is quite troublesome when it has to rely on Resttalk to recover. Spiritomb/other ghosts can't hit it nearly hard enough and once PZ gets past that it's just a shooting range until LO + Burn kills it. Agility is the least impacting set IMO but it still has this power and with a lack of priority to revenge it unprepared teams will be in loads in trouble. Can't forget how easy it can be to set up now with Cresselia also available to set up screens.

    Simply put, this pokemon is too powerful.
  6. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

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    IMO porygon-z best set is either agility or choice specs set. Agility can plow through teams that lack priority moves even though there are many priority users reflect can help porygon set up much easier and begin to sweep. With porygon massive power in suprised it is not used more. I hardly ever see it up high on the ladder. The only reason I can think of why it's not very common is because it requires tons of team support for porygon to do well. Unlike some pokemon that can just be throw into a team, porygon needs supporting mons to help it be used effectively. I'm not sure if it is banned worthy since of it's Mach punch weakness but also the amount of team support that is required. Porygon isn't even that common compared to some mons
  7. bluemon

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    why use dark pulse against gallade when you have tri attack?

    porygon isn't broken... yet. the metagame will fist have to balance itself with the new introductions. if anything, cressilia is the one thats bro
  8. Avira

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    Porygon-Z is in my opinion, too powerful for RU. The Specs variant is a powerful hit and run Pokemon that really blasts through commonly seen Pokemon with its huge special attack and sits at a decent speed tier. It will also often get a Download boost since the tier is predominantly physically defensive. Posted below are calculations for the bulkier portion of the Pokemon in the Top 30 of the December usage statistics.

    Timid Specs Adaptability Tri Attack vs 4HP/0SDef Timid Uxie: 73.3-87.0%
    Timid Specs Adaptability Tri Attack vs 252HP/4SDef Bold UXie: 60.5-71.2%
    +1 Timid Specs Tri Attack vs 4HP/0SDef Timid Uxie: 82.2-96.9%
    +1 Timid Specs Tri Attack vs 252HP/4SDef Bold uxie: 67.8-79.9%
    +1 Timid Specs Dark Pulse vs 4HP/0SDef Timid Uxie: 109.6-129.4%
    +1 Timid Specs Dark Pulse vs 252HP/4SDef Bold Uxie: 90.4-106.8%

    Eviolite Ferroseed:
    +1 Timid Specs HP Fighting vs 252HP/252SDef Sassy: 63.7-75.3%
    +1 Timid Specs HP Fighting vs 252HP/196SDef Impish: 74.0-87.7%

    Specs Adaptability Tri Attack vs 40HP/252SDef Calm Lanturn: 57.4-67.8%
    Specs Adaptability Tri Attack vs 252HP/252SDef Calm Lanturn: 48.5-57.4%
    +1 Timid Specs Tri Attack vs 40 HP/252 SDef Calm Lanturn: 64.3-75.8%
    +1 Timid Specs Tri Attack vs 252 HP/252 SDef Calm Lanturn: 56.8-67.0%

    Most other commonly seen Pokemon are not as bulky as those shown above and take much more damage than the figures shown above, and those that can revenge it, usually cannot come in safely until something is KO'd.

    The Nasty Plot set completely dominates stall. Once Porygon-Z comes in and gets a Download boost by coming in on a physically defensive Pokemon, it is pretty much game over with some prior damage.

    +3 Modest LO Tri Attack vs Specially Defensive Munchlax: 53.8-63.5%
    +3 Modest LO HP Fighting vs Specially Defensive Munchlax: 62.9-74.3%

    (Munchlax is only useful for phazing it once since it doesn't have reliable recovery.)

    +3 Modest LO Tri Attack vs 252Hp/252SDef Calm Cryogonal: 81.1-95.3%
    +3 Modest LO HP Fighting vs 252Hp/252SDef Calm Cryogonal: 94.8-111.6%

    +3 Modest LO Tri Attack vs 252HP/252SDef Careful Mandibuzz: 84.2-99.1%

    +3 Modest LO Tri Attack vs 252HP/252SDef Calm Lanturn: 86.1-102.1%

    +3 Modest LO HP Fighting vs Specially Defensive Ferroseed: 100.7-119.2%

    The Agility set with screen support can trouble hyper offense since many Pokemon on those teams do not invest in bulk and are OHKO'd, and the screens help Porygon-Z to survive strong priority.
  9. Omicron

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    Ok, so can people please stop making claims without backing them up? This thread is for serious discussion; we don't need unnecessary clutter clogging up the thread. If you're going to make a point, back it up with some solid evidence, such as damage calculations. And for your information, Specs Porygon-Z does not 2HKO the standard Bulk Up Gallade with Dark Pulse - it does a measly 29.4% - 34.7%, a 4 or 5HKO. Besides, Dark Pulse is not super effective against Gallade; a STAB Tri-Attack does 2HKO, but Gallade can 2HKO in return with Drain Punch, even uninvested.

    Anyways, on topic. While I believe Porygon-Z is incredibly powerful, I do not necessarily think it deserves to be banned. There are a number of things that resist its attacks, and many Pokemon are faster than it should it not carry a Choice Scarf or use Agility. The problem with Porygon-Z is that it needs Speed and Power in order to really be "broken." Unfortunately, one usually must choose one or the other - i.e. Choice Specs gives up Speed for power, while Choice Scarf and Agility provide Speed but lack the power to obtain certain OHKOs and 2HKOs. Of course, one may attempt to solve this problem with a "Double Dance" set with both Nasty Plot and Agility, but Porygon-Z's defenses are so frail that it rarely will find the opportunity to completely set up, unless given dual screen support from the likes of Cresselia. I've personally had the most problems with the Agility variant, as most Scarfers cannot hope to outspeed a +2 Porygon-Z (with the exception of stupid shit like Choice Scarf Sceptile -___-), and it usually takes out one of my Pokemon before I can revenge it with priority or w/e. So in essence, I'm leaning towards not banning Porygon-Z at this point.

    Also, ShakeItUp gets destroyed by Porygon-Z, no one listen to him xD
  10. jrrrrrrr

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    I was stunned to see P-Z so high on the usage list, it's never posed a problem for me and I've never seen it wreck other teams either. I think people are overreacting to its SpAtk stat and not taking in the whole picture.

    It has either OHKO power, Speed, or type coverage...but never all three at once. It can put dents in your team, sure...but so can most Specs users in RU. RU isn't a tier known for special walling. It can set up Agility and try to sweep, and it may be one of the better sweepers in the tier, but not nearly good enough to be banworthy because of its limited coverage. You don't even have to dedicate a special wall to shut it down, many common pokemon like Cresselia, Spiritomb and Lanturn can come in and cripple it without even worrying about a KO.

    It does get Nasty Plot but that does not fix its middling Speed, which is a huge limiting factor. It basically sets the Specs set as the ceiling of its power, which as others have established is very beatable. You could try to use Download to get a SpAtk boost but that is very unreliable, downright useless most of the time. It's other usable ability only boosts one move, a Normal-typed attack that gets pretty bad coverage in the tier.

    If I got a vote, I would vote for no ban. Even calling it a suspect in the same league as Cresselia is a stretch in my opinion.
  11. skymastergamerpt

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    Well and who is the main source of the Screens? Cresselia that is. Well it appears that by every point we talk about Porygon-Z sweeping like in that previous case is by the help of the Cresselia's double screen!
  12. Twannes

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    Again as many other stated, PZ is a good pokemon, but for it to be really broken is to have all sets in one. Agility lacks power. NP lacks speed. This hold true for the choice sets as well, and those are also easy RK targets, even though PZ is a hit and run kind of pokemon.

    What also severly hinders its sweeping capabilities is entry hazards. IT gets hit by SR neutrally, gets hit by Spikes and by Toxic Spikes too. It is tough sweeping with 37,5% less HP and sever poison (assuming every layer is on the field, which happenes with most stall teams) again a stall team, where you need to be alive as long as possible. Just a simple layer of each hazard cause trouble, giving PZ a timer.

    I haven't seen PZ on ladder much and i need to try it myself too. I haven't heard anything about a possible sub three attacks set, which could possible be a good set as well, avoiding status and beating priority. But then another problem comes around: his bulk. PZ is just frail, close to Alakazam like frail (Zam is even worse). Every jab can take him out. The only thing PZ offers as niche is its Hit and Run tactic and its unpredictability. Does it run specs or rather agility? That advantage doesn't last long however and when the opponent know which set he/she is dealing with, it wont be hard to take out PZ.

    Still PZ is a potent threat in the Tier, being able to score at least 1 KO per battle, which can be really handy for other sweepers. His frailty and hazard weakness just doesn't make it last long, which results in PZ not being that broken.
  13. spuds4ever

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    This is the set I used all the time virtually in RU. This functioned very well as a lead.

    Porygon-Z @life orb
    EVs:128 HP, 252 sp. atk, 128 spd
    Modest
    Magic coat
    Agility
    Tri attack
    Shadow ball

    Magic coat lets porygon work very well as a lead letting him often set up stealth rocks for free and then use agility when it switches or they try setting them up again. Tri-attack and shadowball hit everything except steel types hard. The HP EVs give me a bit of slack if I mispredict on a magic coat so it can still take a hit from a wall. Modest and max special attack with a life orb ensures I hit as hard as possible without a choice item or nasty plot.

    As for how it fits in to the metagame, although it's very hard to get a solid counter, it's not unbeatable. It's usually pretty predictable, if you don't see life orb recoil, 9 times out of 10 it will be choiced and then it's usually pretty straight forwards from there. Nasty plot sets can be beaten by revenge killers like primeape or anything with good speed (like manetric, an under-rated ru pokemon if ever there was one but I digress). Agility sets with tri attack, shadowball/dark pulse and HP fighting are probably the toughest to deal with as steels can't wall him and he has perfect coverage but this is definitely his most threatening set IMO. Overall, he's not overpowered, he's just a versatile and tricky threat (a bit like mienfoo in LC just with much less usage) so I don't think a ban would be appropriate and he keeps the meta-game on its toes making it a bit more exciting too!
  14. Molk

    Molk mfw zoroark
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    Ive been on the fence about porygon-z for a while now, i wasnt sure if it should be banned or not. but people were just using it wrong. Seriously? scarf when you outrun 80% of the pokemon in the tier? i mean, the specs and agility download sets are just better, these sets are incredibly powerful, and it has enough speed to outpace a large amount of the metagame, after using it myself i do believe that porygon-z is ban worthy, but for its agiity set. if that thing gets of an agility with a downloade boost, your team goes bye bye, no doubt about it. give it screens, its an unstoppable monster, nothing can switch in on the specs set except specially defensive cress and munchlax. and even then only cress can take repeated hits with moonlight. the nasty plot set destroys EVERYTHING once scarfers are down, and a double dance set is very deadly if it can force a switch. the only real check i can find to this thing is hitmonchan, and with some Hp investment mach punch wont OHKO. i say that if we ban porygon-z the metagame would be better as a whole

    tl;dr the specs set is annoying, and the agility set sweeps entire teams, nothing can switch in on or wall it, i say ban it
  15. DittoCrow

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    I've been experimenting with Porygon-Z alot this round, and I enjoy using the Choice Specs set the most. Tri Attack 2HKOs almost everything in RU (with SR), except for:
    Ghosts
    Munchlax (Does around 36%)
    252 HP / 252 SpDef Calm Cresselia (Does around 40%)
    Ferroseed (Does around 23%)

    With some prediction, you can beat most of the Ghost types with Dark Pulse, besides Spiritomb. Bold Cresselia and max SpDef Clefable get 2HKO'd by Specs Tri Attack, showing just how powerful this set is. With spikes AND Stealth Rock support, it will destroy any weakened team. I've even taken down Ferroseed before with Tri Attack + hazards. The opponent usually has to sacrifice a Pokemon before beating Porygon-Z. Any unprepared team will get 6-0'd.

    The biggest problem with Porygon-Z is that it can't have both power and speed. The Specs and Nasty Plot sets lack speed, while the Scarf and Agility sets lack the power to 2HKO most of the metagame. Another weakness that it has is priority. It's low defenses and the presence of Mach Punch make it easily revenge killed.

    Overall, I don't think it should be banned because each set has to give up either power or speed, and there are a few things that are able to resist its STAB moves. A slow Porygon-Z is easily KO'd because it is so frail, and the speedy sets can also be countered because they won't do as much damage. This Pokemon is pretty balanced because of this; it does not break the metagame.
  16. alexwolf

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    Just posting to say that Adaptability is usually better for NP sets since a +2 Adaptability Tri Attack is stronger than a +3 Tri Attack. Of 'course when using coverage moves the Download version hits harder but most of the time you will be nuking with Tri Attck anyway.
  17. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I've never thought P-Z was broken and nothing has yet to change my opinion on that matter. Maybe if someone popularizes Sharpen Porygon-Z...
  18. Fizz

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    Question, has anyone tried out a "double dance" set? NP/Agility/Tri Attack/Dark Pulse or something with Adaptability? I used it around when RU was formed and it proved pretty potent (alliteration woooo).
  19. Amarillo

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    Sure, Fighting-types have decreased because of Cress, but it's not like Porygon-Z ever saw a face of fighting types ever... if you played it right, Gallade is the only fighting type that's bulky enough to repeatedly switch into unboosted Porygon-Z. However, defensive Cress itself made it such that Porygon-Z is rather easy to wall. If you're a bulky team, you shouldn't have too big of a problem facing Agility variants. I mean, people say Agility PorygonZ murders offense, but really two can play the game. Offense usually murders unboosted Porygon-Z, too =P

    On the other hand, NP breaks a lot of defensive mons but gets manhandled by offense. I don't know about you, but I usually don't like to put an otherwise no-show Pokemon that can only function when you face a specific playstyle.
  20. New World Order

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    I think we can all agree that Porygon-Z is arguably the best special attacker in the tier, but I don't feel it deserves the banhammer. While all of its sets are very potent, none of them can be labeled as broken.

    Nasty Plot Porygon-Z has a serious Speed issue, and is pretty easy to revenge kill. While it can shred apart defensive teams, any team can just slap on a revenge killer to deal with NP Porygon-Z and call it a day. So yes, it's really powerful if it gets to set up. But you're probably not going to be grabbing many KOs with it. Choice Scarf Porygon-Z I anticipate nobody to argue is broken, as it just plain lacks to destructive power of its other sets. So lets go discuss the more controversial sets.

    First up, the Agility set. Some may argue that offensive teams are shredded apart when Porygon-Z gets an Agility up. However, if you play it properly, Porygon-Z will never get an opportunity to set up. Often times, the only way you're going to nab yourself a boost is to get up Dual Screens. While Fighting-types have been nerfed with the arrival of Cresselia and Sigilyph, this is probably more indication of Cresselia being broken than Sigilyph. Porygon-Z is also unfortunately prone to status, Thunder Wave in particular. If you opt to carry Substitute or Lum Berry, you will either lose coverage against Steel-types or a significant amount of power. Speaking of power issues, even after a Download boost, Agility Porygon-Z can be stopped by a number of special walls, such as Munchlax.

    Choice Specs Porygon-Z, is IMO, the closest set to being broken. However, as with any Choice item user, Porygon-Z relies heavily on prediction. It is indeed an annoying Pokemon to contend with, but you can generally play around it. The ability to 2HKO the entire tier after SR+3 layers of Spikes is impressive no doubt. However, getting up these 4 sets of entry hazards is easier said than done. It seems as if more than half of all teams are carrying a spinner nowadays. Even if you manage to get these hazards up, it is quite difficult to bring Porygon-Z in, as it is quite frail. You often have to sacrifice a Pokemon to bring in Porygon-Z, effectively swapping one for one.

    EDIT: and my Porygon-Z RU analysis is too awesome to be moved to locked/ outdated :P
  21. spuds4ever

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    Well to be honest, balanced teams are very common so there will usually be a check. I find porygon-z is best at late-game cleaning.
  22. Nails

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    specs porygon-z generally doesn't require too much prediction by the user. in most situations there are two moves you can make that will deal a lot of damage to their switch in, so there's a margin for error on your predicts.
  23. Honko

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    My thoughts on the four Peezy sets:

    1) Scarf is not a problem. It's a decent Choice Scarf user, but there are plenty of better ones in the tier. There's really not much to say about this.

    2) NP is obviously a stall-destroyer. I've never used NP P-Z, and I've never faced NP P-Z (or if I did it didn't set up so I didn't notice), so I don't really have a lot to say about it. I will say that just about any decently powerful and fast Pokemon with Nasty Plot would be a problem for stall in a tier where Chansey/Blissey don't exist; P-Z just happens to be the only good one we have. I don't think this set is broken.

    3) I used Agility a lot last round and have seen it a few times, and it's been disappointing in my experience. The idea is to set up later in the match and sweep through an offensive team, but this rarely actually works. P-Z has no resistances, and this set uses less Speed because of Agility, which together makes it difficult to set up or even bring him in at all because you risk taking a big hit that will put you in KO range for priority later. Several times this has resulted in P-Z just being death fodder at the end of the match because it never got the chance to set up against an offensive team that kept up the pressure. Even if you do get a chance to set up, offensive teams can still work around it. If you're using a Lum Berry, then something like Entei can survive a hit and revenge kill with Flare Blitz. If you're using a Life Orb, then recoil damage quickly puts you in range of priority attacks despite the HP investment. And against defensive teams, this set simply isn't powerful enough. Maybe it's just the teams I've been using that made it difficult for P-Z to set up against me, but I personally haven't been impressed.

    4) And then there is Specs. If there's a P-Z set that's broken, this is it imo. Here's what I've been using:

    Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Tri Attack
    - Dark Pulse
    - Trick
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    I almost never use the last two moves, so I changed from HP Fighting to HP Ground because I like outspeeding Lilligant and opposing P-Z. I can still hit Rocks and Steels just as hard, and that Speed point is more useful than 2HKOing Munchlax and Ferroseed (who are both rare and easy to handle with other team members).

    I opt for Download because, as jrrrr noted, this isn't a tier known for its special walls. It's easy enough to grab a SpA boost, and when you do, nothing is stopping you.

    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs 252/252+ Clefable: 59.39 - 70.05%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs 40/252+ Lanturn: 64.33 - 75.81%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs 252/252+ Mandibuzz: 53.42 - 63.12%
    +1 Specs Dark Pulse vs 252/116+ Slowking: 77.35 - 91.09%
    +1 Specs Dark Pulse vs 252/252+ Cresselia: 54.50 - 64.41%

    Yeah that's right, you 2HKO max SpD Cresselia. Essentially the only things that aren't 2HKOed by +1 Peezy are Munchlax, Ferroseed, and max SpD Spiritomb (if that even exists). None of them have reliable recovery, all of them are 3HKOed, and all of them are pretty easy to handle with teammates. They also all hate Trick, although it's probably not worth wasting your Specs on them.

    And this stuff about P-Z being slow is nonsense. Base 90 is the baseline for RU. Timid Porygon-Z has good Speed, and anything faster than it is "fast". Of those faster Pokemon, let's see which ones can switch in.

    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Sceptile: 122.77 - 144.48%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Galvantula: 161.20 - 190.03%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Durant: 104.65 - 123.25%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Typhlosion: 116.16 - 136.70%
    +1 Specs Dark Pulse vs Aerodactyl: 84.43 - 99.66%

    Aerodactyl can do it if SR isn't up, but then again, Aerodactyl usually doesn't live past the first third of the match. The rest have no chance of switching in, which means they have to wait for Peezy to get a KO before they can force it out.

    But what about priority? Well for one thing, those priority users aren't switching in any easier.

    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Entei: 102.96 - 121.56%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Feraligatr: 108.30 - 127.69%
    +1 Specs Tri Attack vs Hitmonchan: 111.15 - 130.67%

    For another, people seem to underestimate P-Z's defenses. It's not bulky, but it's also not really frail. 85/70/75 isn't terrible. If Peezy is at full HP, not even LO Hitmonchan's Mach Punch can take it down (82.69 - 98.07%), and Honchkrow's Sucker Punch, Entei's ExtremeSpeed, and Feraligatr's Aqua Jet do less than that. Priority is good for beating Life Orb variants, but Specs will survive and KO back, and you better hope you have something else that outspeeds or has priority, or else your team is toast.

    Calcs are great and all, but what really matters is how it actually performs, and in this case I can say it's been incredible. Specs Porygon-Z virtually always gets at least one KO, and usually more. With some paralysis support on the few things that outspeed it, it can just tear through a team. It has solid Speed, good enough bulk, and so much power that nothing in the tier can switch in safely. If anything is broken in RU right now, Specs Porygon-Z is it.
  24. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    I agree. I've been using Specs Porygon-Z in conjunction with Cresselia/Uxie with Thunder Wave and Screens support. This allows Specs Porygon-Z to make up for its slow speed, as well as allowing it to live any priority move at full HP. I think I've gotten at least one KO with this Porygon every single match I've used it. I forgot about how deadly it is with proper support. By itself, it can be easy to defeat. With proper support, it's broken.
  25. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Finally got settled in my new place, so I'm playing again.

    My only problem with using any Choice Normal-type spammer in this tier is that you can't just Pursuit the Ghosts away to beat them like you can with Fighting-type spam, you need to deal with the very viable steel, rock, and plain and simply bulky Pokemon. All Fighting-types need to deal with are various Poison-types (besides the Pursuitable Psychics and Ghosts) and most can either carry Reckless Double-Edge or a super effective move, such as (Iron Fist boosted) Ice Punch, Earthquake, or STAB Psycho Cut without making too big of a sacrifice (where as P-Z needs to spam a weak ass Dark Pulse). The Life Orb set is the most threatening in my experience.

    It wall breaks well, but not any better than other attackers with similar Speed / Power; there are some with arguably more that aren't being discussed. It's stupidly frail and vulnerable to priority and not quite fast enough to polish teams off. With Mach Punch, Krow / Absol (with Cress around, everyone should try and use this monster), and various Scarfers around, I don't see it sweeping.

    If I was still on the senate / whatever we are currently doing for suspects, I'd vote against banning it.
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