Good point, but then you've got Fairy types to watch out for. Aegislash's Sacred Sword too since it'll ignore the +1 Defence.
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Pokémon Porygon-Z
- Thread starter SketchUp
- Start date
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So I'm not very good at this, but I tried out a few porygon-z conversion sets. The first and less conventional was
Charge beam
ice beam
HP Ground
conversion
The idea was to make what was a setup sweeper even stronger over time, with electric type since it has the best defensive typing (no super effective priority moves, few superefective types), HP Ground offensively covers everything elec and ice doesn't (except shedinja), and trying to wall this guy would be a very bad idea. However while it does work on less skilled opponents, the problem is that with anybody remotely skilled the first two pokemon Pory-z faces will be the hardest to beat and both charge beam and HP ground need 3x stat boost to do real damage. Without charge beam hp ground is just dead weight unless that pokemon has an 4x weakness.
The other unconventional idea was
thunderbolt
ice beam
psyshocok
conversion
To deal with the special walls, but in practise most special walls have plenty of hp and even 2x multiplier from download + conversion isn't enough to tear them down (particularly magearna, one of the most dangerous enemies for Pory-Z because of heart swap), and defensively psychic doesn't work.
Didn't think of ghost + HP fighting Pory-Z, but i'm guessing it will have the same problem of HP Ground, 60 base attack is too low these days (which is why aegislash shadow sneak isn't fatal, if draining)
So the most usable set I could think of was a download porygon with
Thunderbolt/Thunder
ice beam
Hyper beam
Conversion
Why hyper beam? because now Pory-Z has 2 different Z-moves available, and it works with 3 "modes"; z-conversion makes it a strong sweeper if you can set it up, download can make thunderbolt/thunder or ice beam reasonably strong to exploit super effectiveness (and tells you if it's a good idea to use Pory-Z or not), and in extremis you have breakneck blitz powered Hyper beam (200 bp x stab x 1.5 from download) that will probably OHKO that one pokemon you really don't want to deal with, and you WON'T need to recharge afterwards.
So if necessary you can fire hyper beam again, so at worse it's almost two free kills for the price of one. Having these options also makes you less predictable, since protect would keep out the damage from breakneck blitz but would allow Pory-Z to use Z-conversion instead.
However I can't imagine it needing to be banned, it's a pretty good tool but it needs a team to use it well.
Charge beam
ice beam
HP Ground
conversion
The idea was to make what was a setup sweeper even stronger over time, with electric type since it has the best defensive typing (no super effective priority moves, few superefective types), HP Ground offensively covers everything elec and ice doesn't (except shedinja), and trying to wall this guy would be a very bad idea. However while it does work on less skilled opponents, the problem is that with anybody remotely skilled the first two pokemon Pory-z faces will be the hardest to beat and both charge beam and HP ground need 3x stat boost to do real damage. Without charge beam hp ground is just dead weight unless that pokemon has an 4x weakness.
The other unconventional idea was
thunderbolt
ice beam
psyshocok
conversion
To deal with the special walls, but in practise most special walls have plenty of hp and even 2x multiplier from download + conversion isn't enough to tear them down (particularly magearna, one of the most dangerous enemies for Pory-Z because of heart swap), and defensively psychic doesn't work.
Didn't think of ghost + HP fighting Pory-Z, but i'm guessing it will have the same problem of HP Ground, 60 base attack is too low these days (which is why aegislash shadow sneak isn't fatal, if draining)
So the most usable set I could think of was a download porygon with
Thunderbolt/Thunder
ice beam
Hyper beam
Conversion
Why hyper beam? because now Pory-Z has 2 different Z-moves available, and it works with 3 "modes"; z-conversion makes it a strong sweeper if you can set it up, download can make thunderbolt/thunder or ice beam reasonably strong to exploit super effectiveness (and tells you if it's a good idea to use Pory-Z or not), and in extremis you have breakneck blitz powered Hyper beam (200 bp x stab x 1.5 from download) that will probably OHKO that one pokemon you really don't want to deal with, and you WON'T need to recharge afterwards.
So if necessary you can fire hyper beam again, so at worse it's almost two free kills for the price of one. Having these options also makes you less predictable, since protect would keep out the damage from breakneck blitz but would allow Pory-Z to use Z-conversion instead.
However I can't imagine it needing to be banned, it's a pretty good tool but it needs a team to use it well.
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I don't think these sets will become that common. Running hyper beam in general is a bad idea and if you plan to use a nuking z-move you have far better options than Porygon-Z. Porygon-Z is a utility, one switch in nuke in itself. Adaptability thunderbolt with coverage ice beam can be devastating to a team if your main checks are out of the way and even with a boost, uninvested boosted stats are only becoming respectable not godly. To ensure it stays healthy enough to do work you need recover. It's not guranteed winning, most sash users in OU check this thing hard and an revenge kill super easily, and some higher speed mons (namely pheromosa) can still out speed most variants after the z-move boost. Setting it up is fairly difficult especially against high offense teams, but once you do you're gonna probably kill something before going down.
I wouldn't be shocked if it gets suspected in the future but I doubt anything will come of it.
The problem with adaptability is that ice beam isn't then strong enough to take on threats at neutral damage, like elecvire.
What about support moves? For example Tailwind or agility + baton pass should be enough to allow it to outspeed most scarfers, it also benefits greatly from electric field (more power to thunderbolt), psychic field (no priority moves) and grass field (basically gives you left overs) and all three last enough turns.
What about support moves? For example Tailwind or agility + baton pass should be enough to allow it to outspeed most scarfers, it also benefits greatly from electric field (more power to thunderbolt), psychic field (no priority moves) and grass field (basically gives you left overs) and all three last enough turns.
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Nah, Porygon Z has too many solid counters. It doesn't hit hard enough at +1 to break through any special walls without hitting them super effective while it isn't fast enough to outrun many notable Choice Scarfers. It is relatively weak defensively even after a Conversion boost (at +1 it's about as bulky as Mega Heracross). Porygon Z also has one set and only one chance to set up. You will see it coming a mile away.
Don't get me wrong it is a terrifying sweeper but it isn't broken. Not even close.
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I think it wont get banned, but this thing does have a lot of options. You can run boltbeam coverage, z-conversion and nasty plot on top to bust through walls. it can run agility in the last slot also. im really enjoying how useful recover is in the last slot. it still struggles with something no matter what you pick, but it can choose to change its flaws in this fashion
anyone tried a dark type set also? i know its not as immediately great as electric, but you can change the counters to your sweep and dark/ice is good coverage still.
I think pushing up lillacs is right, z power hyperbeam isn't as great as I thought because it's not strong enough to take down special walls, and you can't take advantage of super effective damage.
thunderbolt
ice beam
shadow ball/dark pulse
conversion
allows you to cover as many types as possible for super efective damage even without conversion, and occasionally the side effects (particularly freezing and flinching) help take down some walls. It actually happened to me switching in on a ghost attack from a alolan marouak, taking zero damage, and OHKO it back with download boosted shadow ball and then surprising the opponent when it converted onto an electric type (the inverse is also possible for a ghost porygon).
I don't think recover is a good idea though; recover works best either on extremely defensive mons that get damaged per hit less than 50% and can afford to wait with protect/toxic/leftovers/etc, or on mons that you can switch in, resist damage and recover while the opponent switches out, and porygon Z is not one of these; it's best defense is killing before taking hits, and once you set it off with conversion everyone tries to kill it or make it switch out by all means possible.
Protect or magic bounce might be useful though, because one of the ways to bring it down is to try to poison or paralyse it and then hide behind protect/king's shiled/baneful bunker/recover, because some scarfed mons that outspeed it invariably try something like u-turn/volt switch, and sometimes it might be better to see what kind of attack they have against you and switch out if necessary. Does magic coat work or roar/whirlwind?
Too bad it doesn't have acess to multi hit or priority moves to finish off foes that endure the first attack though.
thunderbolt
ice beam
shadow ball/dark pulse
conversion
allows you to cover as many types as possible for super efective damage even without conversion, and occasionally the side effects (particularly freezing and flinching) help take down some walls. It actually happened to me switching in on a ghost attack from a alolan marouak, taking zero damage, and OHKO it back with download boosted shadow ball and then surprising the opponent when it converted onto an electric type (the inverse is also possible for a ghost porygon).
I don't think recover is a good idea though; recover works best either on extremely defensive mons that get damaged per hit less than 50% and can afford to wait with protect/toxic/leftovers/etc, or on mons that you can switch in, resist damage and recover while the opponent switches out, and porygon Z is not one of these; it's best defense is killing before taking hits, and once you set it off with conversion everyone tries to kill it or make it switch out by all means possible.
Protect or magic bounce might be useful though, because one of the ways to bring it down is to try to poison or paralyse it and then hide behind protect/king's shiled/baneful bunker/recover, because some scarfed mons that outspeed it invariably try something like u-turn/volt switch, and sometimes it might be better to see what kind of attack they have against you and switch out if necessary. Does magic coat work or roar/whirlwind?
Too bad it doesn't have acess to multi hit or priority moves to finish off foes that endure the first attack though.
I disagree re: recover. It's a pretty great response to priority moves which tend to be used heavily in response to a +1 Speed PoryZ. It's kept a number of my sweeps possible where I'd otherwise be whittled down. Honestly my preference regarding Shadow Ball/Recover comes purely down to how likely it is I expect to be up against a Marowak.
Magic Coat is a pretty neat idea. According to Serebii it does look like it blocks Roar/Whirlwind in past gens. Definitely worth trying in the last moveslot.
Magic Coat is a pretty neat idea. According to Serebii it does look like it blocks Roar/Whirlwind in past gens. Definitely worth trying in the last moveslot.
It would also boost the power of Psyshock, making it even stronger against specially defensive Pokemon who try to wall you out.
So i've tried out both protect and magic coat, and i think neither are good ideas. Protect just makes you waste a turn, and magic coat as a move is useless unless your a mind reader. Recover didn't do much for me, but since even after conversion porygon Z still doesn't outspeed everything, what i did was to put evs in both special defence and defense and give it a modest personality. With conversion, he becomes reasonably bulky (it's like having an eviolite, after all) and there are other ways to raise it's speed, like scolipede and batton pass, tailwind etc.
Having shadow ball, thunderbolt and ice beam remains a good idea simply for maximum coverage.
The most important thing about using porygon-z is still knowing when to switch in, and with what to support it with. Safeguard, aurora veil, psychic field, electric field, grass field, stealth rock/spikes are all good options.
Having shadow ball, thunderbolt and ice beam remains a good idea simply for maximum coverage.
The most important thing about using porygon-z is still knowing when to switch in, and with what to support it with. Safeguard, aurora veil, psychic field, electric field, grass field, stealth rock/spikes are all good options.
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Running a bulkier ev spread without recover is just asking to be destroyed. The all out attacking conversion sets should run max speed and probably timid. I am intrigued by the possibility of nasty plot in the last slot, but It's too situational. Like Porygon is more of a cleaner then a flat out sweeper. Even with the boosted bulk you're not going to find a lot of time to set up. I personally use the boltbeam/recover set and it has served me well.
if you're running the electric type I think the best set hands down has ice beam and recover. Protect on porygon-z in singles serves basically no purpose, doubles it could save you or help you to scout if its safe to use conversion-z, but other than that it's situationally useful and not just flat useful like recovery.
With aegislash gone, is Shadow ball just for marowak on electric sets? Like I don't fully understand it's use outside of marowak. Without it as the move benefitting from adaptability it doesn't do a whole lot and x2 thunderbolt is neutrally doing more damage....so why is shadow ball so common on these sets?
The point of bulkier EV's is because I instead raise Porygon-Z's speed with Scolipede's Speed boost + baton pass. Even at max speed after conversion it doesn't outspeed a few specialized ataquers like Pheromosa or Mega Alakazam, not to mention scarfed garshomp and the like, while even at zero speed EV's a 2+ speed boosts from scolipede is enough to outspeed everything after conversion, (3+ if you need to outspeed scarfed pheromosa), and it means you're likely to be able to use conversion before the opponent attacks.
Even if you run an electric Porygon-Z, I find shadow ball is useful to OHKO important ghost threats like mimikyu (2HKO in this case), marowak, gengar, froslass, tapu lele, necrozuma and others in some cases even without conversion (as in switch in , kill, switch out) although really you could argue that dark pulse is better than shadow ball at this because of the chance for flinching. Porygon-Z's best defense is to OHKO the opponent before it has a chance to strike back.
I also tried nasty plot instead of recover, and I agree; in competitive getting one free turn to set up is already hard, let alone two (basically the problem with DD agility+nasty plot Porygon Z in previous gens) and the only reason you might use nasty plot is to take down special walls like eviolite chancey or blissey, and you'd need psyshock to do that.
Even if you run an electric Porygon-Z, I find shadow ball is useful to OHKO important ghost threats like mimikyu (2HKO in this case), marowak, gengar, froslass, tapu lele, necrozuma and others in some cases even without conversion (as in switch in , kill, switch out) although really you could argue that dark pulse is better than shadow ball at this because of the chance for flinching. Porygon-Z's best defense is to OHKO the opponent before it has a chance to strike back.
I also tried nasty plot instead of recover, and I agree; in competitive getting one free turn to set up is already hard, let alone two (basically the problem with DD agility+nasty plot Porygon Z in previous gens) and the only reason you might use nasty plot is to take down special walls like eviolite chancey or blissey, and you'd need psyshock to do that.
So i reckon i finished singles testing for now, so i'm going to sum up some conclusions. Offensively, the attacks worth having are:
ice beam/blizzard (ice) - super effective coverage against dragon, flying, grass, ground, ineffective against fire, ice, steel, water, can cause freezing
thunderbolt/thunder (electric) - super effective coverage against flying, water, ineffective against dragon, electric, grass, ground and quite a few pokemon with lightning rod, can cause paralysis
dark pulse (dark) - super effective against ghost, psychic, inefective against dark, fairy, fight, can cause flinching
Psychic - super effective against poison and fighting, inefective against dark, psychic, steel, lowers Sp-Def
Psyschock - like above, but with the important nuance that it's strong against special defense walls since it targets defense
shadow ball (ghost) - super effective against ghost psychic, ineffective against dark and normal
signal beam (bug) - super effective against dark, grass, psychic, ineffective against nearly everything else, can cause confusion
Ice beam is must have simply because so many pokemon are weak to it and so few outright resist it.
In the first slot (to which type you'll convert to) you can only really have three attacks: thunderbolt, shadow ball and psyschock. Thunderbolt because electric types have good coverage and there aren't STAB priority ground attacks, Shadow ball because fighting and normal type immunity and it won't be extra punished by the omnipresent earthquake, Psyshock mainly for surprise value since it turns a special sweeper into a a physical one, and you can cover for it with signal beam, dark pulse or shadow ball. Putting anything else in the first slot will get you killed very quickly.
Ghost and Electric porygon-zs can afford to run only two attacks, thunderbolt/shadow ball and ice beam, while leaving the third slot with a support move like recover. A psychic porygon-Z must have three different attacks for coverage, although having thunderbolt, ice beam and shadow ball/dark pulse also works well.
Because to get dangerous porygon-Z needs at least one free turn to be able to use conversion having setup moves like agility or nasty plot is not a good idea simply because in those two turn turns porygon-z is most likely dead and with two turns of setting up other pokemon would be equally, if not more deadly. Another thing to watch out is poison; while a porygon-z with thunderbolt or psyschock can OHKO the likes of toxapex easily, if the pokemon you switch in has toxic or is able to survive the first attack and poison you (like alolan muk, chansey, blissey), you're probably not gonna be able to take down even two pokemon.
Keeping that in mind porygon-z can be quite devastating if the opponent makes a mistake or has a team remaining that doesn't outright resist it, since without very good special defense stats most pokemon get OHKO'd by neutral damage. It is specially so if it is supported by a team that can compensate for it's weak spots and/or make it's good points even better.
ice beam/blizzard (ice) - super effective coverage against dragon, flying, grass, ground, ineffective against fire, ice, steel, water, can cause freezing
thunderbolt/thunder (electric) - super effective coverage against flying, water, ineffective against dragon, electric, grass, ground and quite a few pokemon with lightning rod, can cause paralysis
dark pulse (dark) - super effective against ghost, psychic, inefective against dark, fairy, fight, can cause flinching
Psychic - super effective against poison and fighting, inefective against dark, psychic, steel, lowers Sp-Def
Psyschock - like above, but with the important nuance that it's strong against special defense walls since it targets defense
shadow ball (ghost) - super effective against ghost psychic, ineffective against dark and normal
signal beam (bug) - super effective against dark, grass, psychic, ineffective against nearly everything else, can cause confusion
Ice beam is must have simply because so many pokemon are weak to it and so few outright resist it.
In the first slot (to which type you'll convert to) you can only really have three attacks: thunderbolt, shadow ball and psyschock. Thunderbolt because electric types have good coverage and there aren't STAB priority ground attacks, Shadow ball because fighting and normal type immunity and it won't be extra punished by the omnipresent earthquake, Psyshock mainly for surprise value since it turns a special sweeper into a a physical one, and you can cover for it with signal beam, dark pulse or shadow ball. Putting anything else in the first slot will get you killed very quickly.
Ghost and Electric porygon-zs can afford to run only two attacks, thunderbolt/shadow ball and ice beam, while leaving the third slot with a support move like recover. A psychic porygon-Z must have three different attacks for coverage, although having thunderbolt, ice beam and shadow ball/dark pulse also works well.
Because to get dangerous porygon-Z needs at least one free turn to be able to use conversion having setup moves like agility or nasty plot is not a good idea simply because in those two turn turns porygon-z is most likely dead and with two turns of setting up other pokemon would be equally, if not more deadly. Another thing to watch out is poison; while a porygon-z with thunderbolt or psyschock can OHKO the likes of toxapex easily, if the pokemon you switch in has toxic or is able to survive the first attack and poison you (like alolan muk, chansey, blissey), you're probably not gonna be able to take down even two pokemon.
Keeping that in mind porygon-z can be quite devastating if the opponent makes a mistake or has a team remaining that doesn't outright resist it, since without very good special defense stats most pokemon get OHKO'd by neutral damage. It is specially so if it is supported by a team that can compensate for it's weak spots and/or make it's good points even better.
This doesn't make your case.
I'm starting to think you didn't read what I said. Run calcs if you don't believe me but thunderbolt is doing the job you're saying shadow ball will do. After adaptability neutral thunderbolt is stronger than a super effective shadow ball on the electric one.
This only leaves marowak as the soul reason to run shadow ball which is niche at best.
Further more Magic coat had it's uses as a move but it's more useful on walls. Prediction is the name of the game my friend if you can't see a painfully obvious opening for your opponent to use a status or hazard then don't run it but players should be able to predict each other.
So ive been running the electric conversion bolt beam porygon and really liked it. I agree that shadow ball is almost useless on it. The best coverage move for the boltbeam electric porygon is hp ground imo. It lets you hit Tapu Koko, Magnezone, raikou, alolan marowak and other electric type Pokemon for more damage than the other moves.
Pushinguplillacs, i think I mentioned running shadow ball or dark pulse on an electric porygon-z is not strictly necessary but only there as an option for maximum coverage. Indeed, adaptability means that hitting for neutral damage with electric or ghost is like hitting for 2X damage with an equally strong move of another type, but when I mentioned shadow ball I was also thinking of possible download sets. As for magic coat, like the only real way I could see it being useful on porygon-z is if somebody tried to switch in an eviolite chancey or a blissey or other non poison special walls, which seems extremely situational, and you can't for example attack and repeal the status effect at the same time like an magic bounce espeon could. Might as well have magnet rise and negate ground attacks other than zygarde's thousand arrows.
As for HP Ground, a base 60 power and no STAB means it is difficult to OHKO with it, even if you have Download boosting SpA further instead of adaptability; if porygon-Z had acess to earth power that would be a must have though, since ground would compliment ice and electric nearly perfectly. To give the tapu koko example, thunderbolt from an electric porygon-z actually does more damage to tapu koko despite the resist because of electric terrain. That said, a super effective HP Ground would be preferable to a neutral ice beam or shadow ball, for example, and quite a few pokemon that are immune to electric are weak to ground, so really I should have mentioned HP Ground on the list of attacks worth having.
To look at Porygon-Z from the defensive point of view, the first thing to keep in mind is that before conversion porygon Z can maybe survive one strong hit, and after conversion with no prior damage it can maybe survive two strong hits, so you want to be able to use z conversion before the opponent attacks. The other thing to keep in mind is that speedwise before conversion porygon-Z is only average, and after conversion it can outspeed most of the metagame, but the speed boost only amounts to having a choice scarf so the likes of a scarfed garschomp can switch in to earthquake it. It is also not fast enough after conversion to fully outspeed extremely fast mons like a max speed EV's pheromosa, electrode, mega alakazam, mega aerodactyl, ninjask etc. Finally porygon-Z doesn't have a single priority move to chose from, so it's vulnerable to back attacks from mons with sturdy or focus sashes.
That means it's not a fire and forget kind of sweeper that you can bring in at anytime to cause chaos or to take down that particularly dangerous mon right now. The odds that a team has no answers for a porygon-z after conversion at the start are extremely low. The best way to use it is within a team that can take down the threats Porygon-Z can't (So physical pokemon, fire types, fighting types, ground types, grass types, steel types, fairy types, depends on what kind of moves you have) and wait until the road is clear. Download porygon-Z can switch in and take advantage of a super effective attack to take down some pokemon even without conversion, but that's a big gamble since you have to both outspeed the other pokemon and pray that it's SpD is lower than it's defense, while an adaptability porygon-Z is guaranteed to hit hard after conversion.
To be able to bring in Porygon-Z earlier it's worth noting that it benefits immensely from moves or abilities that contribute to the whole team; stealth rock and or spikes keep focus sash users from being able to fight back, safeguard stops the odd toxic from dedicated walls, tailwind means you can comfortably use conversion and attack, sticky web is enough to outspeed anything short of a scarfed pheromosa, aurora veil gives you useful defenses, wonder room means dedicated special walls would be in trouble, and of course a baton pass from a speed boost user could give you that speed edge as well. Psychic terrain invalidates those damaging priority moves and strengthens psyschock (if you have it), electric terrain makes those electric attacks even stronger, grass terrain gives you leftovers and cuts the power of ground moves by half (it seems almost tailor made to fight with or against the tapu's, amusingly enough). Relying on rain for always accurate thunder or harsh sunlight for repeated solar beams is not at all reliable, if possible.
As for HP Ground, a base 60 power and no STAB means it is difficult to OHKO with it, even if you have Download boosting SpA further instead of adaptability; if porygon-Z had acess to earth power that would be a must have though, since ground would compliment ice and electric nearly perfectly. To give the tapu koko example, thunderbolt from an electric porygon-z actually does more damage to tapu koko despite the resist because of electric terrain. That said, a super effective HP Ground would be preferable to a neutral ice beam or shadow ball, for example, and quite a few pokemon that are immune to electric are weak to ground, so really I should have mentioned HP Ground on the list of attacks worth having.
To look at Porygon-Z from the defensive point of view, the first thing to keep in mind is that before conversion porygon Z can maybe survive one strong hit, and after conversion with no prior damage it can maybe survive two strong hits, so you want to be able to use z conversion before the opponent attacks. The other thing to keep in mind is that speedwise before conversion porygon-Z is only average, and after conversion it can outspeed most of the metagame, but the speed boost only amounts to having a choice scarf so the likes of a scarfed garschomp can switch in to earthquake it. It is also not fast enough after conversion to fully outspeed extremely fast mons like a max speed EV's pheromosa, electrode, mega alakazam, mega aerodactyl, ninjask etc. Finally porygon-Z doesn't have a single priority move to chose from, so it's vulnerable to back attacks from mons with sturdy or focus sashes.
That means it's not a fire and forget kind of sweeper that you can bring in at anytime to cause chaos or to take down that particularly dangerous mon right now. The odds that a team has no answers for a porygon-z after conversion at the start are extremely low. The best way to use it is within a team that can take down the threats Porygon-Z can't (So physical pokemon, fire types, fighting types, ground types, grass types, steel types, fairy types, depends on what kind of moves you have) and wait until the road is clear. Download porygon-Z can switch in and take advantage of a super effective attack to take down some pokemon even without conversion, but that's a big gamble since you have to both outspeed the other pokemon and pray that it's SpD is lower than it's defense, while an adaptability porygon-Z is guaranteed to hit hard after conversion.
To be able to bring in Porygon-Z earlier it's worth noting that it benefits immensely from moves or abilities that contribute to the whole team; stealth rock and or spikes keep focus sash users from being able to fight back, safeguard stops the odd toxic from dedicated walls, tailwind means you can comfortably use conversion and attack, sticky web is enough to outspeed anything short of a scarfed pheromosa, aurora veil gives you useful defenses, wonder room means dedicated special walls would be in trouble, and of course a baton pass from a speed boost user could give you that speed edge as well. Psychic terrain invalidates those damaging priority moves and strengthens psyschock (if you have it), electric terrain makes those electric attacks even stronger, grass terrain gives you leftovers and cuts the power of ground moves by half (it seems almost tailor made to fight with or against the tapu's, amusingly enough). Relying on rain for always accurate thunder or harsh sunlight for repeated solar beams is not at all reliable, if possible.
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I really wouldn't call A-Marowak niche at best. He's being used everywhere right now because he stomps a large portion of Pokemon that everyone uses on their team, whether it be Tapu's, UB's, or anything that doesn't resist his Bonemerang/Shadow Bone. Having a way to take out the one Pokemon that would normally stop your sweep completely is vital, and from experience worth running over moves like Recover.
I may be wrong, but I think he meant that Shadow Ball is what is niche because it's just for Marowak.
That's a good point, but until Marowak stops being one of the best anti-meta Pokemon in the game Shadow Ball has some reason to be there. It or Dark Pulse.
As i've finished singles testing for now, i've been trying out Porygon-Z in doubles. Having a great movepool and a strong special attack means it's dangerous by itself, but as i think someone else already pointed out Porygon-Z and Porygon 2 compliment each other near perfectly.
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7pokebankdoublesou-489382643
Basically you can distribute offensive moves between them, and boost porygon 2 with psych up in the same turn porygon Z uses conversion, and then use protect to alternate between them or to soften the opponents before porygon Z can finish them off. Porygon Z NEEDS protect because it draws attacks like nobody's business, I think porygon 2 would be better of with recover though.
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7pokebankdoublesou-489382643
Basically you can distribute offensive moves between them, and boost porygon 2 with psych up in the same turn porygon Z uses conversion, and then use protect to alternate between them or to soften the opponents before porygon Z can finish them off. Porygon Z NEEDS protect because it draws attacks like nobody's business, I think porygon 2 would be better of with recover though.
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