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Discussion in 'BW LC' started by iss, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 5, 2009

    Approved by Vader​


    Overview (open)
    In Generation 4, Porygon was a nice bulky sweeper with Thunderbolt and Ice Beam. Lacking important level-up moves such as Tri Attack and Recover, it was simply a pretty bulky Normal-type that was slow but hit pretty hard with Download factored in. Even Hyper Beam was an option, as it was Porygon's only special STAB move. With Munchlax used on many teams, sets such as Trick Room/Return/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt popped up to give Porygon some STAB attacks. Then the Pomeg Glitch happened.

    While others were ogling at marvels such as Belly Drum + ExtremeSpeed Zigzagoon and Hydro Pump Staryu, others saw how Porygon now could become a fierce sweeper with its newfound access to Agility and Tri Attack. 85 base Special Attack was no slouch, and it was fast enough to outpace common Choice Scarfers such as Mankey after an Agility. I remember using Porygon on Team Stinky Music, and it was a pretty solid sweeper. However, Porygon was still stuck in the land of good but not great. It spent more time Googling for #littlecup users than actually being used in battle. Vader was probably the only reason why Porygon was still considered a somewhat major threat.

    Things appeared to get worse in Generation 5, with a huge influx of new and powerful Fighting-types. Porygon seemed doomed to the nonexistant LC UU. The addition of Eviolite meant that Agility Porygon was no longer such a huge threat, and even Meditite was around to terrorize Porygon. For many months, the usage of Porygon was extremely low.

    After the bannings of the so-called "Big Four" (Gligar, Misdreavus, Meditite, and Carvanha), Porygon's future seemed unclear. While Meditite and Misdreavus were both pretty good Porygon checks, a huge rise in the usage of Mienfoo and Scraggy meant that Porygon still couldn't really sweep. However, a long-forgotten set known as the Charge Beam set made a return, abusing Porygon's excellent bulk, Trace, and that massive Special Attack stat. If you can 6-0 Elevator Music with one Pokemon, I think that would be pretty good.

    So what's next for Porygon? Will it still be a decent stallbreaker and check to Chinchou and Gastly? Or will the Agility or Trick Room sets make a return and sweep teams like they used to? Only time will tell.
    Stats and Movepool (open)
    HP: 65
    Attack: 60
    Defense: 70
    Special Attack: 85
    Special Defense: 75
    Speed: 40
    BST: 395

    (note: this is for Generation III, as Porygon can only obtain its level-up moves via Pomeg Glitch from Emerald. These are illegal with Download.)
    1 Conversion 2
    1 Tackle
    1 Conversion
    9 Agility
    12 Psybeam
    20 Recover
    24 Sharpen
    32 Lock-On
    36 Tri Attack
    44 Recycle
    48 Zap Cannon

    These are illegal with Download.
    Dream Eater
    Psych Up*
    Sleep Talk*
    Thunder Wave*
    * Available via TM, legal with Download but not with level-up moves.

    These are legal with Download, but not with level-up moves.
    Icy Wind
    Last Resort
    Pain Split
    Role Play
    Signal Beam
    Zen Headbutt

    03 Psyshock
    06 Toxic
    10 Hidden Power
    11 Sunny Day
    13 Ice Beam
    14 Blizzard
    15 Hyper Beam
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance
    21 Frustration
    22 SolarBeam
    23 Iron Tail*
    24 Thunderbolt
    25 Thunder
    27 Return
    29 Psychic
    30 Shadow Ball
    32 Double Team
    34 Shock Wave*
    40 Aerial Ace
    42 Facade
    43 Secret Power*
    44 Rest
    46 Thief
    48 Round
    57 Charge Beam
    58 Endure*
    67 Recycle*
    68 Giga Impact
    70 Flash
    73 Thunder Wave
    77 Psych Up
    82 Sleep Talk*
    83 Natural Gift*
    85 Dream Eater
    87 Swagger
    90 Substitute
    92 Trick Room

    * Gen IV TM.
    Sets (open)
    name: Eviolite
    move 1: Tri Attack
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Charge Beam / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Ice Beam / Shadow Ball / Protect
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Trace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpA

    Firstly, credit to Goldenknight for not only creating this set but also bringing it to #littlecup's attention. There's no way I would have written this thread without this set.

    This is actually incredibly bulky. Eviolite along with those great defenses, as well as a pretty good defensive typing makes Porygon nearly unbeatable outside of very strong Fighting-type attacks. To demonstrate how bulky this set actually is, here are some calculations:

    76 Atk Mienfoo Hi Jump Kick vs 236 HP/196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 69.23% - 92.31%
    196 SpAtk Staryu Hydro Pump vs 236 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Porygon: 38.46% - 50%
    232 SpAtk Chinchou Hydro Pump vs 236 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Porygon: 38.46% - 50%
    196 SpAtk Gastly Sludge Bomb vs 236 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Porygon: 34.62% - 46.15%
    252 Atk Stunky Explosion vs 236 HP/196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 46.15% - 57.69%
    156 Atk Larvesta Flare Blitz vs 236 HP/196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 34.62% - 46.15%
    236 Atk Drilbur Earthquake vs 236 HP/196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 34.62% - 46.15%
    240 SpAtk Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs 236 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Porygon: 38.46% - 53.85%
    As you can see, Porygon can comfortably tank hits from some of the metagame's most powerful Pokemon and annihilate them with Tri Attack off of 16 Special Attack or a coverage move. If you have Toxic or Toxic Spikes support, Porygon can actually just Recover off damage until the foe dies from poison. Charge Beam is nice against things like Lickitung, which you beat (if you don't get Toxiced) instead of having to spam Ice Beam/Tri Attack for status. Thunderbolt gives you more upfront power though, although Ice Beam can help out since it has somewhat similar coverage. Shadow Ball gets pretty good coverage with Tri Attack, only being resisted by the rare Steel-types. It also always OHKOes standard Gastly that do not carry Eviolite. Protect can actually let you beat Mienfoo one on one if you get lucky, although most Mienfoo will U-turn out after having been hurt by Hi Jump Kick.

    Toxic Spikes help this set out a lot, as with Recover you can actually stall out a lot of Pokemon (as previously mentioned). Tentacool is pretty good, as it resists Fighting-type moves often aimed at Porygon. Protect helps here too. A Heal Bell user such as Chinchou also is beneficial, as Porygon absolutely hates being Toxiced (unless you manage to Trace Poison Heal, in which case the game is basically over). Pokemon that beat Fighting-types such as Gastly also help out here, as you generally want to make them think twice about using Hi Jump Kick. Bulky Mienfoo or Croagunk are also nice for Scraggy that try to set up on Porygon. Paralysis support, whether via bulky Chinchou (who can also Heal Bell), Shroomish, or another Pokemon, is also pretty nice as Porygon reaches a measly 10 Speed. In general, Porygon and Chinchou make pretty good teammates, as Porygon can even remove Diglett by Tracing Arena Trap, living an Earthquake (a 3HKO) and OHKOing back with Tri Attack or Ice Beam. Staryu/Natu for removal/prevention of entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, makes Porygon a lot happier too. Porygon can even trace Volt Absorb from Chinchou trying to Volt Switch on Staryu and get some HP back that way.

    The EVs give Porygon quite a bit of bulk. You can move some Defense EVs into Special Defense to take things like Abra's Hidden Power Fighting and Hydro Pumps better.

    EDIT: A word from Goldenknight:
    Other sets that Porygon does pretty well are Agility and Trick Room. Porygon does Agility pretty well, with that nice 19 Special Attack and 26 Speed after Agility. Tri Attack and Shadow Ball do pretty well together, and a coverage move to hit Steel-types like Hidden Power Fighting or Fire makes for one of the best Agility sweepers. However, the huge amount of Mienfoo, Scraggy, and Croagunk, all three of which Porygon is unable to OHKO even with Life Orb and a Modest nature, limits the viability of an Agility set. If Download ever becomes legal with Tri Attack, Agility could make a big return.

    Trick Room is also pretty good, as with such massive bulk and Special Attack Porygon can either set up Trick Room for its teammates or sweep under it. Even the mixed Download set is pretty good if you can get Fighting-types out of the way. In general, that's the one rule of using Porygon: if you can kill Mienfoo, Scraggy, Croagunk, Timburr, Machop, and other Fighting-types, Porygon will easily rip teams apart. It's just getting there that's the hard part.

    Thanks for reading!
  2. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 24, 2009
  3. little gk

    little gk competitive oosos player
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Mar 19, 2009
    ok I should probably say one or two things that aren't really important, but are worth saying? yeah that sort of!

    I actually made the Charge Beam set like last year during the Murkrow meta because I really really liked Prankster and wanted to have fun beating that Featherdance set! I made sure it wasn't 2HKO'd by Brave Bird or something like that (I remember doing a bunch of calcs that I don't actually remember) and theorymoned beating Houndour, Chinchou, Diglett, and having more fun with Pokemon with Natural Cure. I pretty much just wanted to abuse Trace and use it to set up which has worked pretty well over the past year.

    The other thing I wanted to say was to be careful when using this Pokemon! As bulky as it is and all that (and status is overhyped imo), you really have to pick and choose your battles, especially in the middle of the game. It's really not worth it against anything besides like Diglett, Chinchou, Bronzor, or other Pokemon that are just destroyed here if you're going to try and do things late in the game. It seems pretty obvious, but Porygon becomes useless when you can't keep it healthy enough to switch in and be free to Recover when necessary which is made a little harder since it has like 10 Speed.

    EDIT: [18:05] <@little_gk> porygon is MY mon
    [18:05] <@little_gk> forever
    [18:05] <@little_gk> in gen5

    don't let vader fool you... he's a nazi
  4. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    May 20, 2010
    Why is this Pokemon so good? I'll tell you. "If Ice Beam can freeze, it will."

    In all seriousness, this guy's one of the most underrated mons in the metagame. Think of an Abra that can set up and take hits and Recover. Used in conjunction with Larvesta is pretty annoying to pump Mienfoo out of the way (I don't care what set you run, Mienfoo's not going to use Stone Edge against a +1 Porygon). I've also seen it used with Exeggcute and, as you mentioned, Toxic Spikes.

    All I can say is thank you GK!
  5. Methmite


    Jun 11, 2010
    Porygon really suffers from the fact that its normal type. fightings tend to roll the fuck all over it.

    Mienfoo, timburr, hell even Scarf-chop can just beat it to hell and back before it has the opprotunity to do much else that get its Download boost. running larvest like ray said is a good way to deal with it; but its important to remember to deal with it at all when you decide to run him.
  6. Pen Ink

    Pen Ink

    Feb 2, 2011
    I can say that Porygon is a really good Trick Room abuser (albeit, waaay better in 4th Gen. In fact, I don't even think he can be used with TR in 5th Gen). I used Trick Room throughout half of 4th Gen (after Missy, which I wasn't there for), and he was fucking incredible. I believe I ran something like:

    Porygon @ Life Orb
    EV's: Max Sp.A, etc
    Quiet Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - coverage
    - coverage
    - Trick Room

    LO STAB Tri Attack hit like a fucking truck. Seriously, I could suicide lead my TR Exeggcute and go out right to Porygon and start sweeping. Unfortunately, Porygon really can't run a raw power set anymore, even in TR. Eviolite makes shit way too hard to KO along with so much fighting types it's not funny (and, no surprise there, they all run Eviolite).
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 5, 2009
    What Goldenknight said is practically essential to the usage of Porygon. If you're going to use Porygon, read his post!

    Porygon is not a standalone Pokemon in the way Mienfoo or Chinchou is. Although it doesn't need an entire team to support it, it definitely means that you need to run good Fighting-type counters like Eviolite Gastly or Larvesta. Remember that against most teams you will not be sweeping with Porygon until late-game—unless it's a heavy stall team and you manage to dodge Toxic. Porygon is a situational counter, and by that I mean for the early- to mid-game you should not be taking too much damage and Recovering instead of going for kills (like Goldenknight said).

    This is a powerful set, but in the current metagame you can't OHKO Mienfoo via Tri Attack, which forces you into using Psychic for one of your coverage moves (pretty bad move outside of hitting Mienfoo) so the overall viability of offensive TR Porygon is limited. As a Trick Room supporter however, it is one of the best due to the combination of bulk and Recover. It also synergizes pretty well with Slowpoke, as Slowpoke can Trick Room on Mienfoo, Croagunk, and Timburr while Porygon easily gets a Trick Room up on Chinchou and Staryu.
  8. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    Oh my god, Porygon is so amazing under Hail. It's EXTREMELY bulky, and very hard to stop. Blizzard hits so hard. It completely wrecks Stall teams if you switch into Tentacool, Tracing its Liquid Ooze. Ferroseed comes in and Leech Seeds you, while takes damage. +1 Blizzard does 36%. Amazing Pokemon!
  9. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 5, 2009
    This really demonstrates how useful of an ability Trace is. If you Trace the right ability, you're golden. This is probably best shown in the 6-0 sweep, as without Fighting-types it is nearly impossible to stop a Porygon that cannot be statused.

    I'd like to give a special mention of Porygon in hail. Blizzard has the same BP as STAB Tri Attack, so it will do a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. The only problem is Fighting-types, but you should have an answer for those on any hail team. Scarf Porygon also does pretty well in Hail, as Blizzard is just amazing to spam.

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