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Porygon2 (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by capefeather, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    The Battling Seizure Robot is out to get you!!! Now fully OU-friendly! And now in full sentences!!!!!

    I seriously love this thing. It has obvious, painful flaws (fail movepool and Speed) but its ability to practically erase the threat level of some offensive threats is amazing. Comments (especially on EV spreads) are greatly appreciated.
    [​IMG]
    Porygon2

    -------------------------------------------

    [Overview]
    <p>Porygon2 is a solid, all-purpose wall to use on a team that needs, but can't afford to run, a large defensive core. It is among some of the bulkiest Pokémon in the game, and it has an excellent ability in Trace, which allows it to switch with little fear into opponents with abilities such as Flash Fire, Water Absorb, and Volt Absorb, which are usually very powerful special attackers. Trace also allows Porygon2 to take advantage of other abilities such as Levitate, Natural Cure, Intimidate, and Poison Heal. A workable 105 base Special Attack goes a long way in preventing Porygon2 from becoming a "sitting duck", taking attacks from the likes of Gliscor, Gyarados, and Salamence, and OHKOing or 2HKOing them back.</p>

    <p>Nonetheless, this virtual duck suffers from several drawbacks that ultimately prevent it from taking the OU environment by storm. Lack of Leftovers recovery, low Speed, and shallow movepool mean that Porygon2 is relatively easy to overwhelm with multiple fast sweepers or with pure brute force from boosted attacks. All in all, Porygon2 is a jack of all trades when it comes to walling; its Normal typing is a double-edged sword, having only one weakness (to Fighting), as well as only an immunity to Ghost and no resistances. Porygon2 is a solid wall that certainly won't discriminate when it comes to walling offensive threats.</p>

    <p>Porygon2 should not be the main focus or the starting point of a team; it is a "glue" Pokemon that turns momentum in its team's favor, and thus it may not be suited for heavily defensive teams or teams with solid cores of specialized Pokemon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Discharge / Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Toxic / Thunder Wave
    move 4: Recover
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Trace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Porygon2 is an all-purpose defensive pivot that discriminates almost purely by numerical power. Depending on the EVs, it can go toe-to-toe with, or outright defeat, many offensive threats, such as Choice Band Scizor, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Salamence, Hydreigon, and Gengar. The "BoltBeam" combo is essential to maximize offensive presence and especially to deal with threats such as Gyarados and Gliscor in a timely manner. With Trace, Heatran, Jolteon, Chandelure, and Jellicent are also walled. Porygon2's low Speed means that it should try to use Recover at any available opportunity to maximize the impact that it has on the match. The EV spread listed avoids a 2HKO from Salamence's Draco Meteor in sand, and the rest are dumped into HP and Defense to protect against the numerous physical threats in OU, surviving even Life Orb Haxorus's +1 Outrage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Porygon2 has three main options for its support move; Toxic is a great option against defensive teams to cripple walls and Calm Mind users, but Thunder Wave is good against offensive teams for crippling switch-ins, creating better match-ups, and giving itself more breathing room to use Recover. Magic Coat is more of an anti-support move, reflecting opponents' status moves or entry hazards back at them. The EV spread can be altered for more specialization; for instance, 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD Bold avoids a 2HKO from Life Orb Cloyster's Icicle Spear, while 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe Calm maximizes the probability of surviving through powerful special attacks such as Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor. Yet another option is 252 HP / 136 Def / 72 SpD / 48 Spe Bold to outrun Vaporeon and still avoid a 2HKO from unboosted Tyranitar's Superpower. Analytic is plausible because it directly exploits Porygon2's low Speed for a nearly guaranteed power boost with every attack, but it gels poorly with Discharge and Thunder Wave, and it doesn't really fix any of Porygon2's problems enough.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for Porygon2 tend to have key immunities and resistances, especially to powerful Fighting-type moves and status moves. Notably, Bulk Up Conkeldurr's low Speed, high bulk, powerful Fighting-type STAB, and Guts prevent the Virtual Pokémon from doing much of anything to it. Reuniclus is the best answer to Conkeldurr as its Psychic typing and abysmal Speed prevent Conkeldurr (and Fighting-types in general) from doing much against it. Jellicent is one of two Ghost-types with Recover, making it an effective sponge for Fighting-type moves, and it can also burn opponents for Porygon2; however, it also has problems with Conkeldurr. Offensive Ghost-types such as Gengar and Chandelure also benefit from Fighting-type moves aimed at Porygon2, though once again KOing a specially defensive Conkeldurr will prove difficult. Other Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, and Sigilyph can be of help as well.</p>

    <p>Entry hazards and Rapid Spin are of huge help both for helping Porygon2 switch into attacks and for punishing the switches that Porygon2 forces. Forretress and Ferrothorn in particular can do both and attract Heatran and Chandelure, providing many opportunities for Porygon2 to switch in. Another option is to use Espeon or Xatu, as their Magic Bounce ability means that the opponent has to play around them to lay down their entry hazards. Alternatively, one can employ suicide leads such as Deoxys-S to lay down hazards quickly and repel early hazards from the opponent.</p>

    <p>Powerful threats boosted by weather or Choice items can surprise Porygon2 with a 2HKO, though often it is not guaranteed. Landorus is a very notable example of a weather sweeper that may be too much for Porygon2 to handle. Powerful Choice Scarf users such as Politoed and Hydreigon, as well as Chlorophyll Pokemon, can revenge kill offensive threats. Additionally, Ninetails and Politoed can alter the weather to help Porygon2 against certain threats with Fire- or Water-type moves, as well as negate sandstorm and hail damage to prevent its HP from leaking. This kind of weather control also helps to mitigate the threat of Excadrill, which is immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic and can thus set up with impunity. Excadrill itself can be an effective offensive partner that can switch into Thunder Wave and Toxic from walls, but the partnership is rather awkward since Excadrill thrives in sandstorm and Porygon2 is harmed by it.</p>

    <p>Oddly, a Pokemon that can outrun opponents with certain abilities, such as Venusaur or Jirachi, can be a valuable partner for Porygon2 for a different reason, namely with respect to its ability. In the event of a double switch, priority depends on the Pokemon that are switching out; the faster Pokemon switches out first. This can be used to Porygon2's advantage; for instance, Jirachi lures in Poison Heal Gliscor, and at that point a poisoned Porygon2 is guaranteed to Trace Poison Heal if it switches in, even if Gliscor promptly switches out.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Trace
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Porygon2 is one of the best Trick Room users in the game due to its consistent bulk. Its low Speed becomes an advantage for this set, giving it much more offensive and defensive prowess. Trick Room itself allows powerful but slow attackers to become "fast" and attempt to sweep much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As a bulky Trick Room user, Porygon2 should generally be preserved, not sacrificed, so that it can use Trick Room repeatedly. Its EV spread depends on the desired playstyle; the presented offensive spread is for leading or switching in after a teammate has been KOed, possibly right when Trick Room ends, and attempting to double as a "fast", bulky attacker, while bulkier EV spreads may be more appropriate if switching into an attack on the last Trick Room turn is needed. Download can be used to grab power boosts, but it is rather unreliable. Trick Room users who resist Fighting, such as Reuniclus, Slowbro, Dusclops, and Cresselia, make great partners; Reuniclus in particular is a potent sweeper as well as a supporter in Trick Room, and Slowbro is no slouch, either. Excadrill is a particularly appealing sweeper to pair with Porygon2 because of its ability to switch into the walls that Porygon2 may attract, as it is immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic. Ghost-type sweepers such as Chandelure are also appealing due to their increased ability to take on normally faster opponents in Trick Room.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned before, Porygon2's movepool leaves much to be desired, though it does have a few other options. Charge Beam is a notable option for an offensive Porygon2, but there are plenty of Calm Mind users who play this role better. A Choice Specs set can incapacitate the majority of Porygon2's switch-ins with Trick, but outside of that it is literally a sitting duck and loses out on the defensive boosts from Eviolite. STAB Tri-Attack is an option but has poor two-move coverage, causing Porygon2 to be walled unnecessarily. Porygon2 is also blessed with two other great abilities, Download and Analytic, both of which can see some use, but Trace is so crucial to its countering utility that it's almost too good to pass up.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Some threats are simply too powerful for Porygon2 to handle effectively due to sheer might on one of the offensive stats or having a powerful Fighting-type move. Lucario, Infernape, Terrakion, Virizion, and weather sweepers can overwhelm the virtual duck through sheer force. It is also a sitting duck against Conkeldurr (especially Bulk Up variants) and Excadrill. Porygon2 is also very vulnerable to status from walls such as Chansey and Blissey; Toxic in particular shuts it down completely. However, one should be careful if using Pokemon such as Poison Heal Gliscor, as Porygon2 can find a way to switch into it and Trace Poison Heal. Remember that, in the event of a double switch, priority depends on the Pokemon who are switching out; the faster Pokemon switches out first.</p>

    Ubers skeleton just in case (open)
    The Battling Seizure Robot is out to get you!!!

    Overview: Done
    Sets: 2/2 Done
    Team Options: Done
    Optional Changes: Done
    Counters: Done

    I've gotten mixed messages over the weeks as to whether Porygon2 is worth it, but after some thinking, I've decided to do this thing. I tested it a bit, and it seemed to be not all that bad. Admittedly, though, it was difficult to build a team with Porygon2 in mind; it's not the kind of Pokémon that you just build a team around because you feel like it.

    Also, could someone confirm what happens if Porygon2 attempts to Trace Illusion?

    Raw match-up list for reference (first four gen Pokémon only) (open)
    Good

    Garchomp
    Giratina-O
    Heatran
    Metagross
    Gengar

    Decent (basically the result depends on prediction and/or move choice)

    Scizor
    Palkia (depends on weather/set)
    Heracross

    Iffy (long-term)

    Most Arceus
    Mewtwo

    Iffy (short-term) (basically the result depends on luck and/or prediction and/or the set)

    Groudon
    Latios
    Latias
    Rayquaza
    Salamence
    Shaymin-S
    Tyranitar
    Manaphy (+3 Tail Glow in the rain does 89.8% - 105.9%... so basically REALLY dependent on weather)

    Bad (just don't switch into these...)

    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Dialga
    Ho-Oh
    Kyogre
    Lucario
    Infernape
    Poison/Steel Arceus
    Walls in general

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2

    -------------------------------------------

    [Overview]

    • With the Evolution Stone equipped, Porygon2 becomes among the bulkiest Pokémon in the game
    • Can EV itself to become bulkier on both sides than the likes of Lugia, Cresselia, Arceus, and Giratina-O
    • Unlike Lugia, Cresselia, and Giratina-O, Porygon2 doesn't suffer from weaknesses to Pursuit or any other common attacking type
    • Both Trace and Download are excellent, albeit somewhat inconsistent, abilities to have in this environment
    • Workable 105 Base Special Attack (higher than Lugia's 90)
    • Suffers from lack of Leftovers recovery and Speed, requiring heavy investment to outrun even uninvested 90 Base Speed Pokémon, making Porygon2 relatively easy to overwhelm with multiple sweepers
    • Shallow movepool really limits Porygon2's options
    • Jack-of-all-trades defensive typing in Normal is a double-edged sword, having only one weakness but also only one resistance
    [SET]
    name: Utility Counter
    move 1: Thunder
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Toxic / Magic Coat
    move 4: Recover
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Trace
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD

    Set Comments:

    • All-purpose defensive pivot
    • EVs allow Porygon2 to survive two Draco Meteors from Mixed Rayquaza or one +1 Outrage from Dragon Dance Rayquaza; i.e. sweeping Rayquaza are countered and Mixed Rayquaza's hand is somewhat forced, a truly incredible feat
    • By extension, Porygon2 can go toe-to-toe with many offensive threats, such as Reshiram and Mixed Zekrom, and threaten status on them and/or stall them with Recover
    • &quot;BoltBeam&quot; combo is essential to maximize offensive presence
    • Garchomp, Sazandora, and Gengar are outright defeated (although Garchomp could win with Yache Berry)
    • Metagross can be beaten as well thanks to Recover, but beware of Meteor Mash Attack boosts
    • With Trace, Heatran and Burungeru are also walled; Burungeru needs Will-O-Wisp rather than Boiling Water to burn Porygon2
    Additional Comments:

    • Thunder Wave is the primary option to cripple most sweepers and create a better match-up (especially faster Recover)
    • Toxic is another option to cripple walls and Calm Mind users, or for a last-resort battle against Normal Arceus
    • Magic Coat is more of an anti-support move, reflecting opponents' status moves or entry hazards back at them, though it becomes predictable
    • EVs + Nature can be altered for more specialization
    • Download can be used for a chance to grab a Special Attack boost
    • STAB Tri-Attack is an option but has poor two-move coverage, causing Porygon2 to be walled unnecessarily
    Teammates & Counters:

    • Main switch-ins have powerful Fighting-type moves or status moves
    • Kyogre, Zekrom, and Choice Band Rayquaza can beat Porygon2 through sheer force but Kyogre must watch out for Thunder
    • Dialga and Ho-Oh wall Porygon2; the former may use Bulk Up
    • Doryuuzu also walls Porygon2 and is immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic
    • Poison and Steel Arceus are immune to Toxic and typically carry Calm Mind
    • Other Arceus are very risky to face; even if Porygon2 uses Toxic on them, they may carry Refresh
    • Porygon2 can actually hold off Mewtwo for a while and status it, but +1 Aura Sphere 2HKOes
    • Porygon2 can't switch into a Tail Glow Manaphy in the rain, but Manaphy can't switch into Porygon2's Thunder, either
    • Latias can deal with some Fighting-types, Kyogre, and some Arceus, while putting Dialga in a bad position
    • Lugia doubly resists Fighting
    • Zekrom walls Ho-Oh's and Shaymin-S's STABs and has Lightning Strike to beat them, but it must watch out for Earthquake / Earth Power
    • Powerful Choice Scarf users such as Dialga, Palkia, Kyogre, and Garchomp can revenge kill offensive threats such as Darkrai, Kyogre, Doryuuzu, and Zekrom
    • Kyogre and Groudon can alter the weather to help Porygon2 against certain threats with Fire- or Water-type moves
    • Doryuuzu is an effective wallbreaker that can switch into Thunder Wave and Toxic from walls
    [SET]
    name: Trick Room
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Trace
    nature: Quiet / Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    Set Comments:

    • One of the best Trick Room users in the game due to its consistent bulk
    • Low Speed is actually an advantage for this set
    • Trick Room allows powerful but slow attackers, such as Doryuuzu, Shandera, Kyogre, Groudon, Zekrom, and Reshiram, to become &quot;fast&quot; and attempt to sweep
    Additional Comments:
    • As a bulky Trick Room user, Porygon2 should generally be preserved, not sacrificed, so that it can use Trick Room again
    • EV spread depends on the desired playstyle
    • The presented offensive spread is for switching in after a teammate has been KOed, possibly right when Trick Room ends, and attempting to double as a &quot;fast&quot;, bulky attacker
    • Download is an option on offensively oriented Porygon2 to increase its offensive presence
    • If switching into an attack on the last Trick Room turn is needed, the Utility Counter spread with Sassy may be more appropriate
    Teammates & Counters:

    • Possible switch-ins to Porygon2 are fairly varied, as seen in Utility Counter
    • Trick Room users who resist Fighting, such as Ghost Arceus and Cresselia, make great partners
    • Dialga is another good Trick Room user, though it shares Porygon2's Fighting weakness
    • Doryuuzu is a particularly appealing sweeper to pair with Porygon2 because of the walls that Porygon2 may attract; Doryuuzu is immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic
    • Ghost-type sweepers such as Shandera and Giratina-O are also appealing due to their increased ability to take on Normal Arceus and Mewtwo in Trick Room
    [Team Options]

    • Porygon2 should generally not be the main focus of a team or the starting point of a new team; it is a &quot;glue&quot; Pokémon that turns momentum in its team's favor, and thus it may not be suited for heavily defensive teams
    • Due to lack of specialization, a more specialized Pokémon may be a better fit; make sure that the team needs Porygon2 to maximize its effectiveness
    • Kyogre and Groudon hate Burungeru and will greatly appreciate Trace Porygon2 switching into Boiling Water; in return, they remove sandstorm and provide Porygon2 with a type &quot;resistance&quot; to Fire- or Water-type moves
    • Pokémon who resist Fighting-type moves, such as Latias, Latios, and Lugia are great partners
    • Zekrom can check Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S
    • Wallbreakers with immunities to status moves, such as Doryuuzu and Dialga, are great partners as well
    • Wobbuffet is very effective for setting up on or beating most walls; Porygon2 provides a great lure for them
    [Optional Changes]

    • Charge Beam is a notable option for an offensive Porygon2, but there are plenty of Calm Mind users who do that better
    • A Choice Specs set can incapacitate the majority of Porygon2's switch-ins with Trick, but outside of that it's literally a sitting duck and loses out on the defensive boosts from the Evolution Stone
    [Counters]

    • Some threats are simply too powerful for Porygon2 to handle due to sheer might on one of the offensive stats or having a powerful Fighting-type move (e.g. Darkrai, Deoxys-A, Kyogre, Lucario, Infernape, Terakion, Birijion)
    • Porygon2 is literally a sitting duck against Dialga (especially Bulk Up variants), Ho-Oh, and Doryuuzu
    • Porygon2 is very vulnerable to status from walls such as Chansey, Blissey, and Dialga; Toxic in particular shuts it down completely
    [Dream World]

    • Analyze is an interesting ability that directly exploits Porygon2's low Speed for a nearly guaranteed power boost with every attack, but it gels poorly with Thunder Wave and doesn't really fix any of Porygon2's problems enough
    • Analyze is still more reliable than Download is
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Added a few missing colons, marked as done.
  3. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    (Sorry for necro-bumping this thread, but I wasn't able to post in this forum until recently.)

    Magic Coat deserves to at least be mentioned for the Trick Room set. Since Magic Coat now reflects Taunt, Stealth Rock, and (Toxic) Spikes, it allows Porygon2 to make a great Trick Room lead. It still allows you to reflect status as well, so you can use it to set up on Sleep leads. Many times I was able to bounce back my opponent's Taunt or Stealth Rock and get a free turn to set up Trick Room as they either switched out or set up Stealth Rock again. This ended up giving me an early advantage in 2 out of 3 battles.

    I was running it over Thunderbolt so I could still use Porygon2 to counter Dragon-types and Shaymin-S but it could just as easily be run over Ice Beam if your team has trouble with Water-types.
  4. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Since this is in the OU board, the Ubers should be removed.
  5. Twins

    Twins

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    Porygon2 is an insanely good mixed wall that can actually do some damage, but why would you compare its special attack to lugia? Lugia is completely different. It's like saying Starly has a higher attack stat than onix (which it does for some strange reason).

    EDIT: Oops, Pidgey and Onix have the same attack stat, despite Onix being a 20 feet long snake thing that can easily crush you to bits. Starly, another small bird pokemon, does have a higher attack stat than Onix, though.
  6. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    All right, I finally got around to making this OU-centric. To answer Twins's question, in Ubers, Porygon2 got inevitable comparisons to Lugia and Normal Arceus. I compared the Special Attack stats to show that Porygon2 has passable offensive capabilities just as Lugia does, because in many cases the offensive capability does help.
  7. jrp

    jrp Waves grow frigid as darkness freezes light
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    One thing to mention, I've been noticing a lot of toxic orb Gliscor flinging the orb to hit an opponent with Poison.
    If you switch Porygon2 in on this, it can trace Poison Heal, then force gliscor out with Ice Beam while enjoying the 12 % health boost from Poison.
  8. Plusle

    Plusle

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    Lol. Why not just toxic?
  9. emirinho

    emirinho

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    does evolution stone work on all pokemon or just on the unevolved ones.
  10. jrp

    jrp Waves grow frigid as darkness freezes light
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    It works on Pokemon that are not at their final stage of evolution
  11. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    Yeah, I Traced Poison Heal once and I didn't even realize it. It was epic. I'll keep that in mind when I get around to making this a full analysis
  12. jrp

    jrp Waves grow frigid as darkness freezes light
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    I didn't notice it at first either, but it was great, essentially having 2 leftovers and Evo. Stone boosts
  13. PooF

    PooF

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    Gliscor uses fling instead of toxic because getting rid of his item powers up acrobat (new flying type move).
  14. BubaOReally?

    BubaOReally?

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    In the overview you should change "having only one weakness but also only one resistance" to "having only one weakness but also only one Immunity." he is immune to ghost he does not resist it.
  15. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    That's just semantics and anyone intending to play competitive Pokémon should know that Normal-types are immune to Ghost. The typing is mentioned both as a selling point and as a disadvantage.
  16. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    I think that this is basically done now. I'm still not entirely sure about how the EV spreads should be presented, but I think that the ones that I mentioned are the best ones.
  17. jrp

    jrp Waves grow frigid as darkness freezes light
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    One thing, why not put Thunderbolt as a slash for discharge if you have thunder wave listed? It's almost redudant of you run Twave and Discharge and you don't list bolt as an option.
  18. capefeather

    capefeather no shit
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    Nice catch. Thanks!
  19. jacktoto7497

    jacktoto7497

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    Why don't you try a conversion 2 set.

    It would look something like this

    [SET]
    name: Conversion 2
    move 1: Conversion 2
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Toxic / Thunder Wave / Magic Coat
    move 4: Recover
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Trace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 72 SpD / 48 Spe

    I just listed the same evs as the walls evs because I don't feel like doing damage calcs to see how many evs he needs to survive +1 outrages from Ononkusu and sazandora and the like.
  20. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Shouldn't that say "Conversion 2" in the first move slot, and not "Conversion?"

    Also, can you give examples where this would really be more beneficial to a battle than Porygon2's other sets? Changing its type could be useful, but it would be oh-so easy to phaze out. This just seems to be a really situational and luck-based set, and many players don't play relying on luck.
  21. Xav

    Xav

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    An bulkier alternate EV spread for the Trick Room set is Relaxed - 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA. It allows Porygon2 to take more physcial assualts and act as bulky pivot to restore TR and switch to your sweepers. I've been using it and it is very effective.
  22. min min

    min min

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    ...wait what?
  23. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    I think you should include what the 48 Speed EVs do for Porygon2 and why to put them there rather than in [Special] Defense.
  24. NightShadow

    NightShadow

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    you mention infernape in the counters, though I think you should remove that and replace it with blaziken.
  25. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

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    Why not just add Blaziken and keep Nape? From what I've read and heard, people still use the monkey, just not as frequently.

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