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Gen 3 Porygon2 tier change

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by meteor64, Oct 25, 2012.

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  1. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Porygon2 in recent months has become by far and away one of the most used pokes by top players in Adv OU, what with being a a very good substitute for a Bulky Water that, unlike them, can check Gyarados and additionally fills its most important (and unique) role in the tier by revenging Dugtrio (Trace gives it other goodies too like stealing Natural Cure from Bliss to cure a crippling Toxic), whilst additionally being a rather potent status spreader. The pokemon is undeniably OU, by both usage and (I'm very sure) common consensus, so I think the on site tier list should reflect that.

    Just throwing it out there.
  2. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    Totally agreeing. P2 is clearly OU in both usage and potency. Many top teams of the current era include P2, and it definitely deserves a place up there.

    EDIT: @Sir: RoA works as a place to discuss this - take this thread for example http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464398
  3. Danilo

    Danilo
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    I don't think this is the place to discuss this. It should probably be in the PR forum.
    Also, Smogon's OU and BL lists aren't based on how often Pory2 is used on PO. Pory2 definitely wasn't one of the most used mons in the Smogon Tour this season(I only saw one).
  4. meteor64

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    Last time I saw an old gen tier change thread I'm pretty sure I saw it here...

    As for usage in ST, even if it wasn't used much, it doesn't detract from how very viable P2 is in the tier, much more viable than the likes of, for example, Clops or Doom.
  5. Danilo

    Danilo
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  6. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Yeah, thats kinda what I'm aiming for. I'm looking for significant backing.
  7. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    It's just one thing though - I don't think this needs to go to a vote, just a general consensus. I made a link to the last time something similar to this happened in my previous post. In that, just a bit of discussion and some players throwing their names behind the idea, and bam changes made.
  8. Danilo

    Danilo
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    thanks for clearing that up, triangles.
    may we get dusclops to bl if a consensus is formed?
  9. meteor64

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    I would support Clops to BL if the motion came around. Ever since Bulky Gar became popular Clops might not as well exist, its now a niche option.
  10. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    Also agreeing with Clops to BL - as meteor said, with the advent of bulky Gar and pioneering teams such as DracoMalfoy's using it, Clops has become rare and is not often used in high-standard play.
  11. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    P2 is a gimmick though, but it's p good if you need to trap and kill Duggys. BL is its place.
  12. Danilo

    Danilo
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    agreeing with maestro dragon that bl is pory2's place
  13. meteor64

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    I don't see how it is a gimmick... among OU pokes , it reliably checks
    -Aerodactyl
    -Claydol
    -Cloyster
    -Dugtrio
    -Flygon
    -Gengar (in a pinch)
    -Gyarados
    -Salamence
    -Skarmory
    -Starmie
    -Swampert (Non-curse, but nobody uses that anymore)
    -Vaporeon

    And outside of Blissey and Lax, it can threaten all of its switch ins with status. Its one of the best defensive pivots in the tier.
  14. Danilo

    Danilo
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    gets poisoned by vap and pert, cb mence beats, gengar statuses, and i wouldnt want p2 to be my aero switch in.
    it's a good pokemon in ou that is seen every now and then but so are steelix, moltres, and umbreon
  15. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    I dont think that you get the fact that P2 can recover status off itself by switching into Celebi, Starmie, or Blissey (all of which it can come in on mostly unscathed), which most teams have at least one of. Either that or you've got a beller. CBMence is doing the same with HP Flying as it is to Milotic if P2 invests in Defense as it should, and few CBMences run Brick Break, so if P2 user is smart, P2 will always be healthy. The case with Aero is similar to the case with CBMence.
  16. meteor64

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    pert toxic isnt exactly common, Vap toxic is handleable because that is literally all it can do to you, gengar can status but it only beats p2 with WoW+taunt or hypnosis, and tbh status isn't the worst thing in the world when you can mooch natural cure from celebi or something

    smogon evs for p2 are bad, with right evs you guarantee 3HKO from cb mence hp flying, and consequently from aero DE as well
  17. Danilo

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    there's no point in arguing this. get a list of competent adv players and organize a vote.
  18. Crystal_

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    Porygon2 is placed #30 this month in the ADV usage stats, was #47 last month, and #64 two months ago. Not enough usage to be moved up to OU.

    Proof (open)
  19. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    P2 is fine in BL. While it has multiple uses, its main draw is revenge killing Dugtrio, and if it isn't there, it's not particularly threatening - just annoying.
  20. adv

    adv formerly Triangles

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    Usage stats can never be trusted in old gens. I mean, Dusclops is above Regice there and Mankey is above Primeape. Therefore, you simply have to make the decision based on what you see when you play, and its potency wthin the respective tier.

    Non-Cursing Swampert is "not particularly threatening" - it's walled by a lot of stuff. It's still a brilliant defensive pivot. P2 is a similar case, keeping like a third of the tier in check while only being completely switched in on safely by Lax and Bliss, and after a while that gets easy to predict around.

    I'm beginning to like Sir's idea of a vote, as argument is not going to really get us anywhere. In all honesty, I didn't think there was going to be much argument when I first disagreed with the idea of a vote. Also, what do people think about Clops for BL, as was mentioned earlier in the thread?
  21. Crystal_

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    To be honest, usage stats is the most accurate and unbiased reference we have at the moment. What you see when playing, or what anybody else sees, only covers a small part of the meta. And "potency" is also subject to bias.

    I also think Porygon is better than #47 and #64, but tiers doesn't have to do with what I think or with anybody's think alone. It's the thinking in general what makes the usage stats, and, consequently, the tiers.
  22. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Yeah P2 is good but not "change the tiers" good. It has a certain niche but its power isn't as obvious as, say, GSC Vap, who was definitely grounds for the BL -> OU rise.
  23. Danilo

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    There's probably no reason to vote when just based on this thread you're outnumbered 5 to 2
  24. ola

    ola

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    5 to 3 now, i think it should be OU too :)
  25. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    To put this to rest, I honestly don't think there's enough support to warrant a vote. Has the meta changed so drastically from earlier this year that Porygon2's placement needs changing as well?

    Porygon2: 12 OU, 29 BL, 2 Abstain = BL

    That was the result of voting earlier this year, and the general consensus in this thread seems to reflect that.

    If Dusclops should be moved back to BL (bulkyGar), I'm fine with that. Let me know and I'll make shit happen~
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