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Porygon2 - Underestimated?

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Osharlock, Dec 28, 2012.

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  1. Osharlock

    Osharlock

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    I believe Porygon2 is a under-rated pokemon, with incredible bulk and potential. The fact that it can live stab fighting moves and still manage to pull itself forward is great as it is, but with a good movepool for the little duck and the eviolite to back it up, I believe it is a great contender for anyone's team. However, does anyone agree with me on this? I'm aware it can have severe flaws, such as lack of leftovers recovery, and trouble with certain pokemon (A STAB DynamicPunch is nothing to laugh about.)

    What do you guys think? Does Porygon2 belong where it does, or does it have so much more potential?
  2. kd24

    kd24 lemme just whip my dick out and slam it on the table
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    it's 24th in usage and fighting weakness is the worst weakness a mon could have at this point - mienshao, heracross, cobalion, and hitmontop all are tough to face

    snorlax can be a huge pain for porygon2 as you're stuck just trading small damage. lax has the advantage due to leftovers as an item and curse/whirlwind as moves. p2 not being able to heal sucks

    i also think having anything that is a liability vs raikou is reaaaaally bad and that's the story of p2. sub cm raikou can pretty easily start setting up and right now, i think raikou tears holes through team better than any mon.

    so i think porygon2's usage is about right. it's a good mon but it's tough to be top tier with an awkward stab in normal, a fighting weakness, etc
  3. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Don't be so quick to dismiss the Porygon2 vs Raikou matchup, KD. SubCM needs 2 Calm Minds versus max SpA Porygon2 (the standard) in order for a Substitute to stay up past a single hit. Obviously you don't bring Porygon2 into Raikou, but if Raikou switches in on Tri Attack to attempt a set up, it will have taken a minimum of 66% damage after Leftovers, not to mention that by the third hit Raikou has a 49% chance of receiving a status condition. All of this is without a Download or Analytic boost, by the way - Analytic Porygon2 can actually 2HKO!

    Porygon2 is a neat Pokemon, certainly, and it has a few valuable niches. Trace Porygon2 can touch Flash Fire Arcanine and Chandelure are stopped in their tracks, though some Chandelure now run Flame Body anyway. I would say its main problem is that as a defensive Pokemon, it can't provide much more than status support for a team, and as an offensive tank, it's a bit slow and doesn't have many useful resistances. However, it's still a really neat Pokemon.
  4. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    Porygon2 is pretty good. Its history in Adv shows it to be one of the bulkiest pokemon in the game. Now, in BW, it 'would' have been renderered obsolete by the power increase, but Porygon2 has also been given its own weapon in the form of Eviolite, making the duck a very bulky duck.

    Furthermore, Porygon2's superior Bulk can combine with its decent Special Attack and extremely powerful Coverage in TriAttack + BoltBeam to damage many common enemies in the game such as Flygon, Slowbro, Gligar, Togekiss, while they can do nothing back to Porygon. Not to mention, Porygon2's spammable STAB attack in Tri Attack also gives it a 20% chance of inflicting major hax(Burn/Para/Freeze, pretty painful any way you look at it) on your opponent.

    It's the premier Special Tank in UU(fuck snorlax) and also a very viable Physical Tank.

    So Porygon2 is quite a good pokemon.
  5. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    This is mostly accurate, except that most Togekiss can beat Porygon2 one on one, between Roost, Thunder Wave, and / or Nasty Plot.

    It is absolutely not! Snorlax takes hits better, hits back harder, has more resistances, and Pursuit access. Umbreon has Wish access and comparable bulk as well, plus an important Psychic immunity. It can't stand up to hits from the likes of Mew and Zapdos nearly as well.
  6. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    :p That was a purely subjective view, I personally prefer P2 more than Snorlax because of the colorful coverage + hax chance, but you have a point. Snorlax is also a pretty good pokemon. However, I really do hate Umbreon, that's just my opinion though.

    Snorlax has an enormous 160 base hp, and superior ability in Thick Fat. Hits back harder? I'm not sure about that... 105 SpA vs 110 Atk isn't really THAT much of a difference. But if there's one thing Snorlax Lacks, it's that 20% Chance to deal Crippling Status to the opponent. Burn or Freeze on Snorlax never goes well, even though Paralysis is negligible. Snorlax also has unreliable recovery in Rest, while P2 has its wonderful Recover to take hits with. But both of them have their pros and cons, and I can agree with that.


    Umbreon, is one mon I don't really like. Monodark is setup fodder, and most variants don't run Taunt at all, leaving it to be set up on by the likes of Bisharp, Zoroak, Empoleon, Klinklang, SCRAFTY, and many others. Its 130 SPDef, may seem impressive, giving it a max SPdef of 394, but when you consider P2's Eviolite-Boosted Spedef of about 460, and superior offensive Stats and coverage(along with hax!), Porygon 2 is clearly more superior compared to Umbreon.


    Porygon2 is also my favourite Trick Room Setuper :)



    *All of the above walls listed get OHKO'd by Heracross's Close Combat!
  7. silenced

    silenced

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    Much as it pains me to concede, P2 is no longer the special wall it used to be. Chandelure beats it with specs if it uses flame body as it's ability, and is a major liability against the SubCM set (yes, such a set exists even if it isn't one of the great choice sets), or for that matter, any SubCM set, or other sub sets (damn you kingdra).

    The attacking set is probably the better one now, though trace itself has merit on the set, especially against balance/stall (copying natural cure/regenerator/magic bounce is a godsend, especially the last one due to the irritation of xatu and its status inflictions). I've fought one or two analytic P2 and those are a real pain, as while not quite as powerful as the download boost, the coverage P2 gets means most slower pokemon aren't going to be wanting to stay in on P2 anyway.

    Also, to add to Cims post, P2 does not appreciate togekiss's flinchhax at all, much less paraflinch. Zapdos is superior in taking that sort of strategy, especially nasty plot due to resisting air/fighting coverage that togekiss employs.

    As for the fighting weakness, while fighting pokemon will beat P2 down, the only safe fighting switch I'd be backing would be shed skin scrafty, or maybe guts heracross (who won't appreciate freeze/paralysis though). The risk of status from tri-attack, or parahax from discharge if you persist with defensive sets, is far too much of a liability for any other fighting type to risk, let alone taking such hits to get in safely. Getting P2 in safely can be hard at times, but not impossible, and once in, becomes very annoying to remove.

    Another thing to perhaps consider: If you're having 4MSS for P2, bear in mind while the super-effective coverage is poor, Normal-electric has perfect neutral coverage on all of UU except for Rhyperior, if you want to keep STAB tri-attack.
  8. Warb

    Warb

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    That reminds me of a friend's team which employs a defensive P2.
    It traced my Rhyperior's Solid Rock and suddenly Mienshao was unable to kill it while it would threaten me back with Discharge -_-

    On the topic of being underappreciated: I think P2's position in UU is fairly solid, it doesn't seem as underappreciated to me as some people make it out to be.
  9. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    Ouch that hurts. Yeah, I love the little duck though. I use defensive duck with Discharge, Ice Beam, Toxic, Recover. Generic, but effective. On the subject, can NP Togekiss effectively dispatch of P2 with a boost and Aura Sphere?
  10. hilarious

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    I know some people talked about psych up p2 anyone try it out?

    I love it when my opponent uses p2 for the most part because i find all my attacking teams (all of which have froslass to stack spikes) just steamroll through p2. Granted thats easier typed than done when you consider p2's large defenses but constant residual damage especially with a u-turn here or there coupled with hazards and no leftovers means p2 is well...a sitting duck.

    Plus p2s defenses are really overrated sometimes if you think he can counter guys like CB Bat or CS Darm you are sadly mistaken because spikes and no leftovers means p2 dies really really quickly. plus p2 hates all forms of status so if you have a hard time with ps just slap on toxic on something like zapdos which is like a perfect lure for p2 to cripple. or if it fits your team better just smash p2 with specs zapdos - remember p2 has pretty much no resistances except random things like flash fire and lighting rod tracing and ghost so if you just use a strong move with hazards there is almost no chance p2 is going to be anything more than a speed bump.

    Beyond the lack of leftovers, weakness to hazards and fear of status p2 has another flaw that makes me just quack at the opponent when i see it, its really really predictable. unlike other walls/tanks like slowbro and snorlax p2 doesn't really have the option of surprising counters by hitting them hard because he really needs eviolite (and pz is there for your offensive needs). the biggest surprise p2 can really do is like should i use discharge...or thunderbolt?!!? you should really expect the same moves on all p2 except maybe if you see download you don't expect thunderwave. speaking of download most people have caught on to the extra 4spd evs thing so its pretty hard to find a boost for spa on my team of ambipom/cofag/froslass/zapdos/sharpedo/rhyperior p2 can only get a spa boost on a couple guys it doesn't exactly enjoy switching in on (rhyperior will set up r and phaze while cofagrigus might be able to win one on one). while of course even at +0 it does pose some sort of threat a base 80 power stab move coming off only good spa with no boosts at all doesn't particularly scare me.

    So yeah p2 is weak to any kind of passive damage while being predictable and lacking resistances means p2 is only a good wall/tank at best (especially considering i can use he mighty snorlax!!).
  11. LionKingMax

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    P2 is overshadowed by Snorlax's massive size :P. Well, in reality, Snorlax is just better at everything when you consider the many sets he can use and the threats he can check (Chandelure in particular*), base stats, leftovers, pursuit, curse, rest, etc.

    There's not much I can say that hasnt already been said so I'll stop here. P2 is good, but not the best option.

    *P2 with Trace can wall chand too, but some uses flame body, and Trick completely wrecks P2 more than Snorlax.
  12. Bassmaster4

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    I would have to say the reason P2 gets so little use is that Snorlax is better in everything. It has Ice and Fire resistances, access to Leftovers, a way to rid status with Rest + Sleep Talk, and a phazing move in whirlwind. Sure P2 has the advantage of spreading status with Discharge and Toxic, and the fact that he can hit almost all of the tier for neutral damage, but Snorlax just takes the job as special tank and does it better. That's just my opinion though, it really is up to preference in the end.
  13. Jeffbelittle

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    I found a pretty awesome way to use Porygon2.

    Basically, I use a Baton Pass/Tail Glow/ Encore/ Bug Buzz Prankster Volbeat.

    Then, I jump in to a buffing Pokemon. Like a Raikou. Then I encore them. I get them to buff to x4 x4 and they won't argue because they are excited to unleash their Raikou. I then Encore 1 last time, and use my next turn to use P2. I then get both my swap in and a Psych Up before he gets to attack.

    The difference? I now have a x4 x4 EVIOLITE P2 with recover that more than likely will one on one crush that Pokemon. This is an absolute win condition if you have eliminated or TWave their physical sweeper. Mienshao ain't tanking a 4SpA anything if he's slowed by TWave. Or burned.

    Very interesting and very fun. A little gimmicky but a 2.5 raised Spa P2 EVIOLITE from tail glow baton pass isn't terrible either. And a focus sash makes that near unavoidable.
  14. spuds4ever

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    I think porygon is good but where it really shines is in its I-run-an-offensive-team-and-have-no-bulk-let's-cover-as-much-as-possible-with-one-pokemon niche. I would say that's its main justification for use over snorlax, otherwise lax is just much more reliable and all its choices of sets can make it fit snugly on to nearly any team while still hitting harder and not suffering nearly as bad 4MSS and covering many threats more reliably such as chandelure, roserade, and zapdos.

    It's a good mon, but just not reliable in enough areas to push up its usage. A good example of a jack-of-all-trades for a defensive pokemon.
  15. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Any half decent player should realize that you can get them Encored ad infinitum using a Prankster pokemon under those situations.
  16. EspeonX

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    I'll quickly add my stuff before this dies again.

    Porygon2 is a great wall, however, it is given problems in general by fighting types. The one thing I noticed that no-one mentioned in this thread is that Porygon2 hates Toxic. Eventually, it will have to switch because poison damage will end up doing more than Porygon2 can Recover from.
  17. Cheatingtaco

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    Well, of course you could give Porygon2 a Lum berry to heal it, giving it an oppertunity to OHKO or 2HKO the opponent. This could also give him time to set up a stat boost, if the opponent switches out to a pokemon that knows Toxic. This would give two turns to set up. Than, of course, he can recover any damage he gets while setting up.
  18. Warb

    Warb

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    WAT? I'd advise to do some thinking before blurting out unviable ideas such as these.

    @topic: Well of course Toxic is a really good way to deal with P2's sturdiness, but as long as the opponent can't OHKO or 2HKO P2, the cyber duck can threaten shit with Discharge or Toxic itself. If you really rely on P2 as a defensive pivot, pairing it up with a cleric would be a solution to status. There exists another rather gimmicky but kinda viable option to get rid of toxic: tracing Gligar's Immunity.
  19. EspeonX

    EspeonX

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    Eviolite? Besides, Bronzong (for example) can run Toxic and cripple Porygon2 with it, but idk how rare Toxic is on Bronzong. It is one of a fair few that isn't typically 2HKOd by anything Porygon2 normally runs. Even if you switch Porygon2 out, there are a good number of pokemon in UU that don't like poison damage.

    Of course, despite sharing a Fighting weakness, Umbreon can serve as a cleric with Heal Bell, whilst also being able to use Wish should Porygon2 be heavily damaged or for other teammates. Porygon2 would fare better with Gligar, who is not only immune to Toxic (as mentioned above), but also resists Fighting type moves and serves as a hard counter to most bar HP Ice Mienshao. It can also provide SR for Porygon2 to take advantage of, tracing Flash Fire from Chandelure and either forcing it out for an extra 25% damage when it switches in, or for it to be crippled by Discharge/Toxic.
  20. SerperiorThanU

    SerperiorThanU

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    Porygon2 is AMAZING, with the standard defensive set, it's not even OHKO'd by Life Orb mienshao's Hi jump kick or Heracross's Close Combat!! In return, it can either a. thunder wave them to neuter them or in my case, with a tail glow pass, it can OHKO with ice beam! It isn't even 2hkoed by scarf darm's flare blitz! Porygon2 is extremely bulky and is great in supporting with paralysis support or doing stuff like tracing Flygon's levitate.
  21. Nas

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    This thread has run its course.
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