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Poseidon Adventure

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Arkarian, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Arkarian

    Arkarian

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    So, I haven't played Pokemon competitively in years, but today I thought I'd hop on Pokemon Showdown and try out an NU rain team. It's my first NU team, and I seem to be doing pretty well with it so far. It more or less uses moves recommended by Smogon, but hey, I'm having fun with it anyhow:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
    Liepard @ Damp Rock
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+SpD, -Spe)
    ~ Rain Dance
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ U-Turn
    ~ Encore

    Usually my lead. First of all, I love Damp Rock, and it's a key part to this team. I try to keep Liepard alive (via U-Turn) so I can set up another 8-turn Rain Dance late in the match. Typically I'll start off with a priority Thunder Wave, then Rain Dance, then U-Turn the hell out of there. Encore is useful for completely shutting down any opposing leads who use a stat-boosting move. I just bring in a Swift Swimmer and blast away while they're still Encored. Overall, she's been very effective on this team.


    [​IMG]
    Ludicolo @ Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    ~ Surf
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Rain Dance

    A special sweeper, support Rain Dancer, and my alternative lead (if a see a lot of fighting pokes on the opponent's team). I don't like running RD teams with just one Rain Dancer (especially since this team depends so much on RD), and since he does well against many leads and can take some hits, Rain Dance is working great on him. I toyed with putting Damp Rock on him too, but it hasn't felt like I've needed it so far. I used to run Hydro Pump but switched it for Surf given that Rain will boost Surf plenty—what do you think of this?


    [​IMG]
    Seismitoad @ Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Mild (+SpA, -Def)
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Rain Dance

    A mixed attacker and supporter who can take hits. Generally I like using him immediately after Liepard to set up SR.

    Still not sure about the EVs. This is the Swift Swim set on the site, but does he need all those Speed EVs? It seems they could be better put into Def or SpD (I'm not too worried about facing Scarfs because he can take a hit or two anyway).


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-S @ Damp Rock
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 224 HP / 220 Def / 64 Spe
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    ~ Rain Dance
    ~ Air Slash
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Pain Split

    A defensive wall who can switch in to set up RD, hit flying types, or types weak to flying. He's here to provide type coverage and handle common threats like Mantine and Exeggutor and other grass types. I don't need any electric attacks on him except to handle Mantine, which Volt Switch does better than Thunderbolt IMO. I've got Ludicolo's Giga Drain to handle water types and plenty of ice moves for flying types.


    [​IMG]
    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)

    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ X-Scissor
    ~ Aqua Tail
    ~ Rapid Spin

    What's that—another Swift Swimmer? Of course. Armaldo's not fantastic, but he's good on Rain teams, and my team really needed him to handle common threats I was having problems with before (entry hazards, stall pokes and Regice). I've been pretty happy with how he's turned out so far, but any suggestions for alternative movesets would be appreciated. Aqua tail feels a little excessive, considering all the other water type attacks on my team, but I don't have a physical water attack, and I can't think of anything else to put on him.


    [​IMG]
    Jynx @ Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

    ~ Lovely Kiss
    ~ Nasty Plot
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Psyshock

    I find myself being able to take advantage of Jynx's Lovely Kiss + Nasty Plot in almost every match, and Dry Skin is handy to have in the rain. She works surprisingly well with a rain team, and Psyshock is enormously useful, particularly against Regice. So she's essentially a mixed attacker, which makes me feel more comfortable about having so many special attackers on this team. One thing I'm not sure about is the Focus Sash—it seems potentially useful, but it didn't get used once during my test matches. Maybe I should be less afraid to switch her in on potential threats, considering she outspeeds almost everything.


    [​IMG]
    Gorebyss @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)

    ~ Substitute
    ~ Shell Smash
    ~ Surf
    ~ Hidden Power (Grass)

    Yep, a third Swift Swimmer. Think this one's pretty self-explanatory. Don't need Ice Beam because a couple other pokes on this team have that covered: HP Grass has been a godsend so far on this guy. However, I often have trouble using Substitute effectively. Perhaps I should give her a White Herb and Ice Beam (or perhaps even Baton Pass?) and just forget about Sub? Her defenses allow her to take some hits.


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    I used to have Lapras and Floatzel on this team. Lapras was very handy for absorbing hits and using Roar, but I couldn't find a spot for her after deciding to add Armaldo and Gorebyss, and her lack of Swift Swim doesn't help. But what do you think about Gorebyss v. Floatzel? Would it be better to have another physical attacker like Floatzel back in the team? I'll be honest, I haven't managed to effectively pull off Gorebyss's Substitute very often, though I can occasionally still get a Shell Smash in without using a Sub.

    Also, one thing this team lacks, with the explusion of Floatzel, is a priority move, though Liepard's Prankster somewhat makes up for that.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  2. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    This team seems to have trouble with Mantine and specially defensive Ludicolo, and they can wall you to no end since you lack a way of dispatching them quickly. I suggest Rotom-S over Gorebyss. Gorebyss doesn't really add much to the team apart from an additional swift swim user. Rotom-S, on the other hand, can destroy Mantine and deal large amounts of damage to Ludicolo (who can't heal as effectively in rain), set up rain, and provide support and momentum.

    I also suggest you change Seismitoad to the Swift Swim set, which is onsite. This gives you another offensive Pokemon, and together with Ludicolo, wears down each other's checks and counters really well.

    Finally, I'd give Jynx a Life Orb over the Sash, which would provide you with lots of extra power. The recoil damage is mitigated mostly by rain anyway, if you were worried about that.

    Nice team, hope I helped.

    Show Hide

    Rotom-S @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Air Slash
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Water]

    Seismitoad @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hydro Pump
    - Earthquake

    Jynx: Focus Sash --> Life Orb
  3. Arkarian

    Arkarian

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks for the suggestions. I'm totally new to NU, so it's nice to hear some perspective on what the threats are. I played against a lot of teams with Rotom-S (though no rain teams), and it was always a bitch to take down. If I'd known it could learn RD I would have looked at it sooner. Looking forward to trying out the new team with your changes. One question: why HP water for him? Is there any reason besides just the boost from rain? It seems something like HP fighting could be more useful.

    Hmm, taking a look at Mantine's page, he seems pretty interesting too. It looks like he could fit well on a rain team, but perhaps not on this one. There's just no reason to use him over Rotom-S that I can see.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  4. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    HP Water is mainly for the Rain boost and I guess lure in Ground-types like Cameupt but uhh this is a rain team so I guess you're right that it's a bit redundant.

    Rotom-S has a really large movepool so that last option can be filled with anything really. Things like Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, Discharge, Tbolt, HP Ice, etc. If you wanted, you could even run a more defensive EV spread on it, but that's up to you
  5. Qualna

    Qualna

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    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
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    Seismitoad should run a Relaxed Nature, it will not miss the speed(the Pokémon that still outspeeds it in the rain are Scarf Pokémon that still outspeeed it even with Quirky) as only obscure threats are outsped with Quirky or 'outslowed' with Relaxed and the extra defense helps, and why are some EVs not used? Just dump them into Sp.Atk and Seismitoad should use a different move instead of Toxic, most common switch in's are those who aren't fazed by Toxic like Vileplume and Altaria. And also, Seismitoad can lead well when the enemy has Golurk because Liepard fears Dynamicpunch, just make sure the enemy doesn't have a Grass type or it will be a mindgame.

    Gorebyss really wont be using Substitute effectively, most skilled players attack(or even Taunt, assuming not under rain) to prevent from you from getting Shell Smash, and also, the moves Baton Pass and Shell Smash on one Pokémon is banned at NU. Just give him another coverage move.

    At Armaldo, you might want to try X-Scissor instead of Aqua Tail, it's his most reliable STAB. But Aqua Tail has great covergae with Rock Blast.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  6. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Without Aqua Tail, you lose completely to Golurk, which will definitely be switching in to block Rapid Spin. Use the offensive Swift Swim Toad set, it's really good on rain. And I disagree with Qualna: Substitute is actually one of the best moves on Gorebyss because otherwise it is very vulnerable to status and revenge killing and it can now set up on Metang, Torkoal, and Alomomola. If you're keeping Gorebyss (which I don't recommend) or ever using Gorebyss again, you should do Signal Beam over HP Grass which would provide the best coverage, hitting Exeggutor, Jynx, and Ludicolo really hard.
  7. Arkarian

    Arkarian

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    What do you think about giving Armaldo X-Scissor and Aqua Tail and forgetting about Rock Blast? I know RB is handy for breaking subs, but I've often felt like having a good Bug-type STAB would be useful for taking down psychic and dark types (especially as I don't have any fighting moves for the latter). It looks like Aqua Tail and X-Scissor would give him at least neutral coverage for all types.

    EDIT: updated the first post with my team as it currently stands. Rotom-S is in, Gorebyss is out. I did choose to go for a more defensive set on Rotom as he's a great wall stat-wise and I was a bit lacking in defense on this team. Also changed Seismitoad to the Swift Swim set, gave Life Orb to Jynx and Seismitoad. In my test battles last night this worked pretty well.

    Also, what do you think about Timid over Modest on Jynx? With Life Orb she should have plenty of attacking power, and I really can't afford for her to be outpsed.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw 502 bad gateway
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Hi Arkarian ,

    scorpdestroyer fixed most of your teams issues with his rate, though I have a few nitpicky changes to your Pokémon's movesets. The first one is on your Liepard--I really don't see any reason to be using Thunder Wave on it, since your team is fast enough and you should focus more on setting up rain. I suggest replacing T-Wave with either Sucker Punch or Pursuit. Sucker Punch gives your team a decently strong form of priority, which your team currently lacks. Meanwhile, Pursuit lets you trap Ghosts and Psychics, which seem to be pretty big threats to your team. It's all up to you. I'd also change the EV spread to 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd, since it powers up Sucker Punch/Pursuit and a specially defensive spread really just isn't helping in the long run.

    You should probably also be using the Choice Scarf set on Jynx. Scarf Jynx gives you a fast Pokémon that doesn't rely on rain to outspeed things, and Nasty Plot isn't really needed since you already have plenty of powerhouses on your team. Also, you should definitely be running Timid on Jynx, the extra Speed is just way too good to pass up.

    Finally, you should probably be running Lum Berry over Life Orb on Armaldo. Lum Berry is really useful for switching into Toxic Spikes without getting poisoned, and since your team currently lacks a grounded Poison-type, this is really invaluable. It also lets you do other random things like absorb a Swagger from Liepard and Rock Blast it to death. And idk if that's a typo or not, but you should really be running max Attack.

    Good luck.

    Suggested changes (open)
    Liepard: Thunder Wave --> Sucker Punch or Pursuit (your choice), EV spread --> 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd with a Jolly nature
    Jynx: change to the Choice Scarf set
    Armaldo: Life Orb --> Lum Berry, EV spread --> 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
  9. Arkarian

    Arkarian

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    Messages:
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    Thanks for the suggestions, Dat Blast. I've made all those changes (yep, Armaldo's EVs were a typo, thanks though), except Scarfing Jynx—for now. I've found Jynx already outspeeds almost everything in NU even with a Modest nature, so switching her to Timid should give her enough speed—I think. I really don't want to Scarf her because Lovely Kiss + Nasty Plot is too good to pass up, but I'll keep that in mind and try some test battles with and without Scarf.

    Lum Berry on Armaldo is particularly smart, thanks for that recommendation. He does tend to get poisoned a lot, and as a spinner it's a no-brainer.

    The reason I had Liepard's EVs set to what they were is that Prankster gives all her non-attacking moves priority anyway, so speed is essentially useless on her. Her only attacking move was U-Turn, which I like using after the opponent has attacked, so I get damage + a free switch. However, it's hard for her to take a hit, so I'm going to try Jolly and 252 Spe EVs and see if it helps.

    I tried a Specs version of Ludicolo, but I think it only hindered his versatility. Switching him out when his chosen attack would be ineffective is just too costly on this team. I've also started using Rotom-S as my lead, and he does very well. He can set up RD and Volt Switch no problem, unlike Liepard. Liepard's Encore has been wonderful for checking Substitute and other less common threats, and she's great for scaring off Psychic types, so I'm glad I've kept her on the team.

    EDIT: the first post now contains the updated team.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  10. Qualna

    Qualna

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    Jynx is still not using Timid Nature? The extra power provided by Modest Nature is mostly unneeded anyway.
  11. Arkarian

    Arkarian

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    Whoops, no, she definitely is. I just forgot to update that. Thanks!

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