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All Gens Post-SPL sets dump megathread (Old Gens)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by SoulWind, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. SoulWind

    SoulWind
    is a Tiering Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    Copy-pasting the OP from McMeghan's thread, which was copied from the Nails RU thread. Credits to him for original idea.

    Now that SPL over, lets all share our awesome ideas we've been hoarding for months and years. Because if you hold out now you're a jerk. Let's write some things about our creative and metagame-changing sets we can use in the old gens to innovate atm!!

    Descriptions are encouraged, but not required. But if it requires some explanation or key information, pls include it. Teammates you used it with are excellent. 2-3 sentences should be enough, so don't feel pressured to write a lot unless you want to.

    Let's make all this thread popular and enjoyable so we can all learn about new metagame trends!
    I'm going to highlight some SPL players but everyone should be welcome to share their thoughts & ideas too!

    Jorgen Mr.E Veteran In Love Colchonero Picollo Tiba Conflict Floppy Golden Sun Danilo ]V[ajinTupacZ Triangles 6A9 Ace Matador Halloween Ojama Fakes Marshall.Law DracoMalfoy 199 Lives TV-Rocka Iconic Heist george182

    Discuss and have fun!
  2. Danilo

    Danilo
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    A lot of dudes fall in the trap of having their stalls weak to Forretress.
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 SAtk / 160 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    This set helps to solve that problem by owning other Forres. Players are always keen to bring their own Forres in on your Forre for nice n clean 50 50 wars or the boring Spike --> Spin --> Spike --> Spin --> Spike --> Both go to Gengar. This gives u a nice n clean edge. U can change Earthquake if ya want.

    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 52 Def / 72 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hypnosis
    - Explosion
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch

    The defensive boom gengar is here! i don't like porygon on my cm teams so this is a nice mence check if u don't want to rely solely on the cune. use a dugtrio. fuck dekzeh
    muramusaw8 and SoulWind like this.
  3. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

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    i didn't play this year but i'm posting anyway!!

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Lunar Dance
    - Ice Beam

    this set was originally used on a featured rmt in the smog way back when and i decided to try it with max speed since cress is actually pretty fast with investment. everyone knows it has ridiculous defenses and some really good resists but it's often slow and weak. this set is meant to come out mid/late game to throw up screens and die, potentially healing one of your near-dead sweepers to hopefully finish the job. it can also check shit in a pinch with ice beam and its speed. the speed is what really makes the set work, it sits at a nice 295 (aka as fast as timid suicune) meaning that against more offensive teams you'll be able to do what you need to even if you aren't at good health (for example, i once won a game by reflecting in offensive heatran's face with a 3% cress which gave dragonite a lane to safely dragon dance, unable to be killed by explosion).

    soulwind rules
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
    Jaiho, Nails, badabing and 2 others like this.
  4. 199 Lives

    199 Lives

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    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 240 HP / 48 SAtk / 176 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leech Seed
    - Rest

    Specially defensive shaymin, checks all water and electric types exceptionally well. Can run Hp fire or Earth power over hp ice.

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 SAtk / 208 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Hydro Pump
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Ice Beam

    A great spinner for offensive teams who don't like their starmie being trapped by tar/sciz.
  5. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I'll post after Conflict and Picollo finish their match. There's a few gimmicks I wanted to try, but was too chicken to use or too busy to test this SPL, so I'll post that kind of stuff rather than the stuff I actually used (because the latter was all standard as shit).
  6. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Winner

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    Swagger: bad.

    Porygon2: good
    Steelix: good

    Smeargle: ???

    Sexchamp: always sexin'
    Tomahawk likes this.
  7. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    [​IMG]
    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
    - Cross Chop
    - Fire Blast
    - Curse
    - Rest

    It's always hard to even make creative or new sets in old gens, especially GSC considering how limited your possibilities are. This is the only remotely creative thing i ran, Machamp to break stall/turbodrumming teams. What this set does is basically snipe Skarmory with Fire Blast while still having the option of cursing up and sweeping. I know a +1 critical hit Cross chop ohkoes Skarmory, etc, etc, but with 8PP and a only semi-reliable accuracy you can't bank on crits. This set is pretty bad against teams with Zapdos over Raikou, gladly enough Raikou/Skarm is a very common core (way more common than Skarmbliss these days). I didn't even bother with hp bug/ghost since starmie wrecks your shit anyways, and Exeggutor is 2hkoed by fire blast too. Rest to basically give it the opportunity to heal up on things like Raikou, Suicune, etc, because longlivety is important when trying to break stall teams.
    I know, pretty matchup reliant set, but it clutched me a win. It's usually good at punching holes to open for Lax/Zapdos to do work.

    Also is this thread only about sets you used, or can i comment on other people's sets too? I am boring and ran pretty standard stuff all the time myself, but i did see some noteworthy sets.
  8. adv

    adv

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    Fat Bastard (Snorlax) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Immunity
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Def / 28 SDef / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Body Slam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Curse
    - Self-Destruct

    I used this set twice. This is designed to bait out and destroy stuff like Skarm and Cele, and it works very well. Both Curse and Selfdestruct are common moves on Lax, but the surprise value is seeing them together on the same set. When you see Curse, you switch off to the possibility of Selfdestruct which is what makes this set cool. When I used it, it was on Magneton-less fast physical offense teams. The speed creep is for Lax vs Lax and also a paralyzed Aero.
    I took some other cool stuff too, but I thought that this was one of the things that worked the best for me.
    SoulWind and Pocket like this.
  9. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Champion
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    Some sets I used more or less recently.
    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Rapid Spin

    Props to Ojama for this one, Offensive Forretress is a really good Spinner in defensive team when you already have a Spiker to pair it with. HP Ghost from an invested Adamant Forretress hits Gengar real hard (2KO almost every variant), and Explosion is surprisingly strong, letting you hit +1 Curselax/Suicune for way more damages than anticipated by your opponent (letting you get the revenge kill with a Dugtrio for example).

    [​IMG]
    Heracross (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spd (a Max Speed spread works too)
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Megahorn
    - Rock Slide
    - Focus Punch

    Classic SD Heracross with a twist: Focus Punch. Most (every) Skarmory nowadays don't pack an offensive move which means SD Heracross has a field day against it since +2 Focus Punch (especially with Guts) will take care of it handily. Paired with Porygon2, it's one of my favorite stallbreaker. Boudouche and BKC liked it a lot and they both used it in their Smogon Tour run last season.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 164 Atk / 208 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rock Slide
    - Fire Blast
    - Brick Break

    A MixMence set that aims to hit super-effectivly everything relevant in ADV. Works best with Spikes to punish switches. Rock Slide is there for SpDef Zapdos which otherwise walls it too easily.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Immunity
    EVs: 112 HP / 88 Atk / 180 Def / 112 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Belly Drum
    - Focus Punch
    - Shadow Ball
    - Self-Destruct

    Props to CrashinBoomBang for this one. BD Snorlax is a nice Tyranitar/Skarmory "lure" that performs well even outside of that particular job. BD ensures that you can dismantle stall early game and against Offense, you can catch a kill with Focus Punch and/or Self-Destruct. Lack of Body Slam/Return is sometimes annoying but this set works way better in practice than in theory.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 192 Atk / 164 SAtk / 152 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Drill Peck
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roar
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    MixZapdos. Played like MixMence showcasted earlier. Needs spikes to work obviously (letting you cripple Blissey/Snorlax/Regice/Celebi on their predicted switch-in to net the kill with Drill Peck/Tbolt later).

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 228 HP / 240 Atk / 28 Def / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    This Metagross set is designed to fuck up with people who rely on Physically Defensive Celebi + Bulky Water to check Metagross (and thus avoiding the Explosion on the bulky Water). Works even better alongside Magneton/a Skarmory Lure.

    [​IMG]
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 60 SDef / 156 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Roar / Sleep Talk
    - Rest

    Super bulky Raikou with a recovery move. Needs proper team support (Porygon2 is greatly appreciated, something to cripple/lure the bulky ground too). It basically beats every special sweeper one-on-one (given you don't get critted of course) and also beats Blissey on the long run thanks to Pressure. Really great cleaner which brings good team support. I know BKC used/liked it in Tour Play-Off.
    Nails, asterat, Karrot and 20 others like this.
  10. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Where did those sprites come from :o

    EDIT: found em. And then I used Google Translate. I can't stop laughing at the fact that Zubat is a butt.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
    Grey Knight likes this.
  11. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
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    pokesho
  12. george182

    george182

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    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue32/dpp-ou

    All of them ^ and I swear bkc stole half of them off me :P

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    248 Hp, 8 sp.def, 252 speed
    Timid
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Hp ground raichi is amazing at the moment, it just has so few counters, sets up with ease and sweeps with ease. With this ev spread it survives the 2hko from LO gengar and makes a much better check to all the water types.


    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Choice Scarf
    Poison Heal
    48 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
    Jolly
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge

    Scarf loom is an excellent utility check to loads of current threats like starmie, suicune, +1 tyranitar, rotom etc. It's also one of the best leads for shutting down your opponent's plans with spore, allowing you to switch to a counter. Don't think it's lacking in power either because it still packs a punch.
    SoulWind likes this.
  13. Fakes

    Fakes
    is a Past SPL Winner

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    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    Bulky Dragonite might not be the most 'orginal' set in this thread and you cant consider it as Gimmick but it isn't used/seen much, thats why i am posting it. This Set isnt create to punch holes in the opponent's team like a Mixed Nite or a CB Nite would, its more about sweeping the opponents team like the offensive DD Dragonite would, but with a diffrent princip. With the EV's it aims to get 2 Dragon Dances instead of one. With the added Defenses and Roost it also checks Sweeers like SD Lucario or Scarf Heatran :)
  14. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
    is a Pre-Contributoris a SPL Winner

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    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Explosion
    - Giga Drain

    Used this one quite a bit. Forretress is criminally underrated/underused at the moment and everyone seems to fall back on Cloyster. This set actually lets Forry win 1v1 vs Cloyster (Giga Drain 33.6 - 39.6% -> 3-4hko) due to Giga Drain healing Forry. So this Forry actually pressures Cloyster while still performing its usual duties (spiking, ~spinning as well as checking some stuff via Boom). This set works best if paired with a Pursuiter because those can remove those pesky Ghosts that stop Forretress from spinning freely (and TTar/Umbreon+Forry also form a solid defensive Core). I myself found exspecially Umbreon an appealing teammate due to it being able to weaken/kill Ghosts as well as Starmie and keeping Cursers that can setup on Forry in Check.
    Forry obviously also works just fine with a Ghost instead of a Pursuiter but if you run a Ghost i feel that Toxic or another Move (Hp[Bug]) are superior to Giga Drain because those Ghosts diminish the Cloyster-issue greatly already.
    Forretress also can be used to pivot around some dangerous sweepers (with the added threat of a Boom!) like for example Nidoking or Exeggutor.


    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor (M) @ (No Item)
    - Thief
    - Psychic
    - Giga Drain
    - Explosion

    Standard Eggy with a Twist. Exeggutor usual first Counters/Switchins are the Electrics(!), Skarm and sleepabsorbers like Sleeptalk-Snorlax. Thief enables you to steal the Leftovers of those Mons letting Eggy aid other Mons in their sweeping capabilities. If you manage to steal the Leftovers from Skarmory then several Sweepers will have an easier time (hello Snorlax!) breaking it and if you hit one of those pesky Electrics several Mons will be able to push right through em rather easily (Nidoking if you thief'd Zapdos/Snorlax, Vaporeon if any Electric, your own Electric if Raikou/Snorlax, etc.). This Eggy therefore pairs well with Mons that can abuse these conditions as well as a Poke with a Sleeping Move (since Eggy lacks one). Curse-Lax (Lovely Kiss!) or Nidoking work exspecially well.
    Has seen use from Tiba and me.


    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
    - Growth
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest / Hidden Power [Electric]

    Offensive Growth-Vaporeon. Usually inferior to other variants it shines on really offensive Teams with tons of pressure that also provide it with Spikes-Support and the ability to cripple the Electrics with Status (Sleep, Para). Ice Beam safely 2hkoes Exeggutor after +1 and has a shot at 2hkoing at +0 (guaranteed with Spikes) whereas Hydro Pump enables Vaporeon to 3hko Snorlax at +1 (Hydro Pump 37 - 43.7%) and 2hko Raikou (letting you stomach 1 Thundr-hit and killing status'd Raikou in Return easily). Rest vs. HP[Electric] is a tossup honestly if your team doesnt have the defensive to let you actually sleep a few rounds then HP[Electric] provides a neat alternative that lets you 3hko Suicune/Vaporeon pretty reliably at +1 (and can also surprise a Cloyster!). Many counters to Vaporeon wont boom straight up because they fear a switch so letting you 2hko them (while being faster!) lets you kill those before they can do it vs you. And if youre running Hp[Electric] than your own Vaporeon serves as a very good secondary check for opposing Vaporeon.


    [​IMG]
    Golem (M) @ Leftovers
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast/Roar/Curse
    - Explosion
    - Rapid Spin

    Utility Golem. Its not that great but it fills one niche: It gives you a Spinner that also threatens the Electrics as well as Skarm (also serves as a ~Skarm-Lure with Fire-Blast: Fire Blast 45.9 - 54%). Fire Blast also hits potential switchins like Eggy (Fire Blast 40.2 - 47.3%) and Cloyster (Fire Blast 31.6 - 37.2%) rather nicely. And lastly you still have Explosion as well as Earthquake to discourage something setting up on you. It works best in Teams that need a secondary answer to the Electrics and are rather desparate for a spinner (and cant rly include a different one because those would increase their weaks ~ Electrics).


    [​IMG]
    Heracross (M) @ MiracleBerry
    - Endure
    - Megahorn
    - Reversal
    - Flail

    A kinda Fun set that gives Heracross a better shot at sweeping than most other Sets (Curse-Stalk only sweeps vs a few limited teams). This Set lets Heracross beat Skarmory, Zapdos and friends in the long run but it requires good prediction to bring it in (or you use Slow-Bpers...). The strategy is easy and straightforward, spam Mega Horn and Endure when you can exspect an attack that knocks you out. Then go to town with 200 BP-Stab-Reversal and 200-BP Flail (2hkoes Zapdos, Nidos, etc.). Miracle Berry saves you from Status which would destroy this Set (B-Slam-Paras :( ). This Set needs Spin-Support to work and certain Pokemon that can force highly-guaranteed switches (Snorlax, Misdreavus!, etc.). It also greatly enjoys paralysis-Support. Other than that it makes for a great cleaner in the lategame.
    Its downsides are rather huge though: Its pretty much a defensive liability, diminishing your switch-in options and even with 200-BP moves not strong enough to straight up OHKO the whole Metagame (many Mons are just 2hkoed: Skarm, Suicune, Nidos, Zapdos, etc.).
    Still a cool set to use once in a while. Oh and its fucked by Ghosts so it probably requires an Pursuiter too (EQ is shit because you still need to hit GGar on the Switch and Missy just dgaf).
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    badabing, cbt, muramusaw8 and 8 others like this.
  15. MoxieInfinite

    MoxieInfinite

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    FINALLY someone who appreciates Golem in GSC *cough* Andeby *cough*
  16. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Eh, Flail just doesn't seem good enough to me. EQ for Gengar on the switch is actually a pretty big deal, and even if it weren't, Seismic Toss would probably be my second option to spook Skarm into actually attacking. Flail only gets Zapdos and doesn't necessarily even 2HKO it unless you use Pink Bow.

    I agree with you on MiracleBerry (it's also handy for dodging Thunder para), but it's worth noting that Black Belt vastly improves your chances of OHKOing Steelix (even guaranteeing the OHKO after Spikes damage, although you're probably going to focus more on a reliable spinner than a spiker/spinner with this set) and actually makes OHKOing +1 Snorlax possible.

    Never liked this set at all. If you plan to use this without spinblock, you straight-up lose to Starmie and opposing Forry teams. And even for fighting Cloys, Toxic is better. You should be aiming to win the Spikes war long-term anyway, and even short-term, Giga Drain is a 4HKO and only has 8PP, making it very easy to PP stall.


    I guess I should post some shit instead of just bashing other people's too, huh. Okay.

    [​IMG]Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    -Thunder
    -Ice Punch
    -Explosion
    -Destiny Bond

    There's a billion Gengar sets that could be posted. This is one I used last SPL because Dbond is pretty unexpected and can nab some cool KOs, but replacing Explosion with it for your suicide moves misses out on Gengar's Raikou killing abilities, which isn't cool. So, out with the unreliable Hypnosis/Dpunch methods of fighting Tyranitars, and in with Dbond to literally ensure that, worst-case, you trade with it. Dbond Gar is also the best thing I can think of to take out Ttars for stuff like Fire Blast Lax, particularly on non-Spikes teams.


    [​IMG]Miltank (F) @ Leftovers
    -Seismic Toss
    -Growl
    -Milk Drink
    -Heal Bell

    Nidoking kicked my ass this SPL. Miltank would've been a handy thing to use (I used it in most of my matches the first half of last SPL!) This is a slight modification, with SToss over Bslam (that I didn't even come up with, I think the first I saw it was when Floppy used it 2 SPLs ago, though it probably far predates that). SToss means a sleeping Skarm can't come in to waste Rest turns on you willy-nilly, which can be handy if you're trying to wake up a sleeping Drumlax. It's also handy for ensuring that you can force CurseLax to Rest, for preventing Curse Steelix from just getting free Leftovers on you, and for actually damaging MixTar so you aren't totally at the mercy of DPunch confusion or Crunch SpD drop luck. Oh, and Forry/Cloy no longer set up Spikes as easily. Obviously there's downsides to no Body Slam (Zapdos, Raikou, and Egg come in a lot more easily, stuff like Nidoking and Tentacruel can afford to set up), but overall SToss just lets Miltank do its main jobs better.

    [​IMG]Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    -Earthquake
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic
    -Encore

    In keeping with the Ground spinners trend, Donphan just feels like a way more reliable one to use than Golem. With Encore being a "discovered" move for him, he can actually put a stop to Snorlax setting up and might even beat a last-Poke Lax. Obviously shouldn't be your first answer to Lax or anything, but it definitely helps, and without having to take a big hit unlike Roar sets. It can also screw up stuff like Missy, which it 2HKOs if it can't Protect, so it still can technically check Ptrap even without Roar. Speaking of smashing Missy, he can't be spinblocked, so that's pretty cool, even if he baits Cloyster like a motherfucker. A handy mon for teams that want a reliable answer to Ttar, a second look for Curselax, a reliable Rapid Spinner, and a Thunder immunity, something that I find a lot of my teams would definitely welcome. Oh, and I use Toxic over Rest because it gets Cloys (and Eggs, which is pretty cool), plus Donphan, being a ground, probably isn't getting many opportunities to Rest without Heal Bell support anyway.

    [​IMG]Suicune @ Leftovers
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Mirror Coat
    -Rest

    Again, not especially new, and more a twist on an old classic (that Borat posted a while ago on PO forums iirc). I kinda didn't like it then because it missed out on both the benefits of Roar and Sleep Talk, but Ice Beam + Mirror Coat together really do make Suicune really good at screwing with Zapdos. I find that I'm often reluctant to use Suicune because I feel like, while it'll shore me up against a bunch of crap, I kind of waht to use that slot to shore up my Zapdos defenses, too. So in a sense, this set lets me have my cake and eat it too. You still lose to Vap unless you can freeze it while it Growths up, though: a Mirror Coated +5 Surf followed by a Suicune Surf will never 2HKO Vap even with a crit on the latter, so it's free to go for attacks rather than passively let you try to go for freezes. I guess Toxic is possible over Ice Beam to not be a lump vs. Snorlax and to keep Cloys out, and Roar is possible to be able to actually counter Vap and maybe get some Spikes damage. However, not being able to 3HKO Zapdos means you don't really force the issue with Mirror Coat, which is kind of the point here.


    [​IMG]Porygon2 @ Leftovers

    -Double-Edge
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunder Wave
    -Recover

    So I used this more last SPL than this SPL. It's no longer even new, but because I made a big deal of it then, I may as well post now for those unfamiliar. This is based on a pondering by Borat about how to make Pgon2 good: in this case, ditching Curse for support. It actually works really really well, as the most common Sleep Talkers (Zapdos and Raikou) are both 3HKOed by it, and it hits a lot of other things harder than you'd expect (Skarm is 4HKOed by Ice Beam, as is Snorlax [sometimes], and if you're desperate the Miltank Freeze is always an option). Pgon2 also squares off well against Explosion team threats like Gengar and Exeggutor, so it's really nice for defending against offensive teams and spreading para versus them. Its main weaknesses are giving Cloy an opening and being walled to hell and back by Suicune, and I guess also its tendency to just get Exploded on (not a weakness per se because whatever else would have been in this slot would have died anyway and might not have even forced the Explosion to begin with, but it is annoying that Pgon2 often doesn't get to do more but be Explosion fodder). Oh, and Normal redundancy, making it difficult to build a team with it.

    [​IMG]Ampharos @ Leftovers
    -Thunder
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen

    VIL used this and he doesn't seem to post too much, so I figure I'll spread the word. He may have used Tbolt > Thunder, and possible HP Water over Ice, but it's mostly whatever. The main selling point is Dual Screens in a pure Electric, being able to set up on Raikou while hammering everything else with its attacks. Screens are pretty rare in GSC, so using them with a sweeper can sometimes mean insta-win as you befuddle an unprepared opponent. Amphy's a cool Electric to use if you want a Zapdos wall that supports your team better than Raikou can. It's a shame it's too slow to counter Vap. You probably also shouldn't Rest with it, as you can usually tank Thunders all day anyway, you probably will be dodging other attacks anyway, and you really want to maximize your use of Twave/Reflect/Light Screen/Dpunch to set you apart from Raikou.


    You know, there's more I could put here (strange things like 4 attacks hera and Entei, non-novel but underutilized twists on classics like Light Screen Starmie, high-risk dick moves that I was too chicken/polite to use like Sleep Trap Smeargle), but I'm gonna stop for now.
  17. Royal Flush

    Royal Flush in brazil rain
    is a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
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    456
    [​IMG] Piloswine @ Leftovers
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Beam
    -Toxic
    -Rest

    yes I used Piloswine on a serious match


    overall a poor man's Nidoking, but has its merits. Well maybe not. Huhhh it's slower but bulkier, and a solid electric switch. Gengar as well. Nice for fishing freezes and toxicing the obvious cloy/starmie switch. Hard walled by vap/cune though.
    It's not really worth a team slot, but it's surprisingly effective against offensive teams without vaporeon. Compared to nido, it can switch easier.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    SoulWind and MoxieInfinite like this.
  18. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    The more classic set there is EQ/Blizzard/Curse/Roar. Curse + Roar means Snorlax can't set up on you, Blizzard can actually 3HKO Skarm, and EQ is EQ (obviously). I'd say there's more merits to your set though, as dealing with Cloyster somehow is a big deal, Rest lets you survive Spikes, and going for Ice Beam freezes is safer than the Blizzard 3HKO on Skarm because it's not too difficult to PP stall an 8PP move that barely 3HKOes its intended target. Not to mention that Curse + Roar isn't 100% necessary for Snorlax, as he doesn't want to switch in on an Earthquake anyway.
  19. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Winner

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    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,653
    hey guys can I join

    nidoking.png @ Leftovers
    Counter
    Fire Blast
    Earthquake
    Lovely Kiss

    Ice Beam would've been nice to "force the issue" against Zapdos but I used Fire Blast because it hits both Skarm and Eggy (where Nido would normally have BoltBeam), plus forces Heracross' hand. Lack of Ice Beam further encourages Zapdos anyway and discourages it from Resting early to avoid dying to super-effective crit/freeze, improving the chance of the desired result: Zapdos coming in to absorb sleep and eating a Counter for 80% when you avoid that and it tries to force Nidoking out. That's pretty much the point of it, though you get some mindgame potential with Snorlax and shit where it's less likely to Body Slam your switch-in, you can OHKO other Nidoking if they walk into it, etc. The just-strong-enough STAB Earthquake and Lovely Kiss are what make it usable anyway, so the other two moveslots can be tailor fit to your team's needs.
  20. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,284
    [​IMG]

    Lucario @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 96 Spd (EVs are really whatever imo)
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Bullet Punch

    Kind of an old set I used to use, it may be kind of crappy, but this was mainly built as an anti lead(and late game utility check) for the common Azelf, Dragonite, Ttar, Aerodactyl and other leads commonly used in the era of this set. The point between 96 Jolly is to speed creep neutral nature base 80s and other odd speed tiers caught in between. I actually chose Bullet Punch over Extremespeed due to the rising popularity of gengar as a suicide anti lead on the shoddy ladder. The other moves are mainly standard though, CC kills big ol' fighting weak sweepers and leads like tyranitar and proves as a generally good STAB to use. Crunch is, as previously stated, for azelf and psychics/ghosts like starm/gar. And Ice Punch wraps it all up by hitting early game scarfgon, mixnite and late game DDNite, Cleaner Flygon, and Aero. And if were wondering: I just threw around the last 4 EVs into sdef after I chunked in the HP EVs for longevity for no reason at all since they really did nothing in the HP slot and they really do nothing anywhere else.

    You can chunk out more HP for speed, but that ruins the utility after SR has been set, not letting it live much, which all in all, it's a lucario so whatever who cares if it's frail.
    Hollywood, tab and dice like this.
  21. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    You would have been able to get a little bit more Attack out of Adamant.
  22. Karrot

    Karrot plant
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    846
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Toxic

    Toxickou which I used on my Bob/Celia-esque stall week 4. Actually does an incredibly good job at crippling Raikou/Snorlax. If you can keep spikes down this mon is a terror. Just pray they don't have a Nidoking.

    Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Megahorn
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Floppy used this week 1 vs me, and I in turn used it vs. Conflict in week 4. Most reliable non-FB Machamp counter in the game. Pair it with a curseboom lax to explode on Skarmory (!!), and an Exeggutor or other Zapdos lure for a clean playing field.

    The way this functioned on my stall team was to wall Non-FB Nidoking, which my Toxickou made the team especially weak to.

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power: Fire / Bug / Explosion
    - Giga Drain / Explosion

    Variation of the set Conflict posted above; introduced to me by James G last summer. You give up Rapid Spin for powerful spikes control. Toxic + giga drain completely cripples Cloyster. Pack HP: Bug and you should be able to keep spikes down in a majority of battles. Choice of the third move is dependent on match-up; on a faster offensive team, I like bug + explosion, as other forretress can usually be dealt with simply with smart ghost-mon play.

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    - Body Slam / Return
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Belly Drum
    - Rest
    Incredibly powerful stall-breaker. I believe Colchonero used it week 1 vs. Royal Flush. This lax has an incredibly strong match-up against more typical stall teams. Pack a Pursuiter for Ghosts and you're golden.


    Jolteon (M) @ Leftover
    - Roar
    - Thunderbolt
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute

    EVs set to be slower than Raikou. Incredibly stupid Jolteon set I came up with to fuck with Roarkou/Skarm/Lax stall; get somes spikes down for easy roar abuse, use roar to prevent Raikou from blocking your subpass. Obviously terrible when the opponent packs a Steelix/Rhydon (with Rhydon matchups, though, you can feign hp: water). Pair with BDLKlax for gamebreaking results.
    adv, cbt, BKC and 2 others like this.
  23. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Oh can I post a Lax set that wasn't used this SPL but was used against me almost a year ago in another tournament?

    [​IMG] Snorlax @ Leftovers
    - Body Slam
    - Fire Blast
    - Substitute
    - Curse

    I believe the Mexican apple, elmanzano, used this against me in... I think PO world cup last year? Like I said, it was a while back. It's not exactly a revolutionary Lax gimmick, as CurseKissBlast is something everybody knows about but doesn't use, and Substitute is something that people pay lip service to as viable on Lax (but which, again, nobody never uses). It still kinda surprised me with how effective it could be, though (mostly because it's never used).

    Obviously, it's screwed up by Roaring Rocks and Misdreavus, but it blows past the Growlers, puts Gengar in a tight spot as it's unable to Explode but can't break the sub (not to mention Fire Blast erodes it evenutally), and once it's got a couple Curses going not much of anything is breaking its subs. Fire Blast keeps Skarm and Steelix from just Phazing it (and before you try to use Flamethrower for PP against Gengar, realize that Fire Blast's 2HKO on the Steels is mega handy). Body Slam is to make things slower/fp so that you can better abuse Substitute (paralyzing mixed Ttar is especially helpful here). Sub is super-handy for keeping Toxics off of it, which normally forces Lax to Rest and, if played correctly, can really limit what it's able to accomplish (and maybe even outright KO it in conjunction with Spikes!)

    You'll probably want the same support for this as any old FB Curselax would want: Ttar Pursuit and Spikes to wear down opposing Ttar/Rhydon (or maybe even something like Dbond Gengar to take them down outright). Heal Bell, Rapid Spin, and screens support are always welcome for a non-Rest Lax set, too, but I wouldn't say that you'd need to bend over backward for it.

    EDIT: It's been like half a week and there's another set that I remembered caught me off guard against Tiba. And it's like the one Pokemon he used that didn't have Thief:

    [​IMG] Cloyster @ Leftovers
    - Spikes
    - Clamp
    - Screech
    - Explosion

    So the main idea behind this set is to be able to trap and KO stuff like Reflect Starmie and boosted Curselax, which would normally just be brick walls for Cloyster to Explode into. Clamp ensures the opponent can't run away, Screech will cut through defense boosts, and Explosion finishes the combo. Spikes are there because it's still Cloyster and that's still his main job. Outside of the two main targets, this Cloyster finds versatility in the fact that Clamp is amazing at keeping any potential Explosion target put. Main issue with this Cloyster is the lack of Surf, which isn't too big a deal against most Grounds because they'll switch out if they're slower anyway, but it might be a problem against Tyranitar or when it comes to wearing down Ghosts. Also, it doesn't have any tools to fight other Cloysters outside of just Exploding on them, so keeping Spikes might be trickier than usual if they bring a spinner.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014

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