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Power Creep in Pokemon TCG

Discussion in 'TCG' started by Eagle4, May 9, 2013.

  1. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    Have you noticed something in TCG? Perhaps Stage 2 Pokemon now average around 140HP...almost every Stage 2 Pokemon has a move of 70+..or that EX cards are now basic? Well, what you've been noticing is the humongous power creep that has infested TCG. No more will you require 4 energy cards to deal damage of 70 base power... now it could be 3 energy cards for 80.

    Here's two examples of Power Creep in TCG

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    Reasoning for why this card is so overpowered is it is pretty obvious. First thing you'll notice is that despite this card being EX, it is a basic. It is a basic card with 180HP. So already, this card would be brilliant as it is... and then you see the moves. Hammerhead requires one fighting energy for a net damage of 60... what. This is a basic as well, keep that in mind. Land's Judgement can deal up to 150 damage... again, this is unheard of before DPP or even BW. So yeah, overpowered card is overpowered.

    Next, we move on to Darmanitan.

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    The main selling point is Damage Counterpunch. 120 damage for 3 energy cards is unheard of, and by the time Darmanitan gets enough energy to use that attack, it will probably have a few damage counters on it anyway.

    Well, this thread is basically for the discussion of Power Creep and how it has affected TCG and the gameplay of it. If you wish, you can showcase any cards you deem overpowered and clear evidence of Power Creep. Post away!
  2. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I moved this to the correct forum.
  3. Phadunk

    Phadunk

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    This is just how it is now.. Stage 2 cards aren't making a huge impact because of how slow they tend to be, and how inconsistent [which we can all agree with], plus the fact that Basic EXs are everywhere now and really staples to win tournaments and matches.

    Big Basics is the top deck for a reason. A deck with Darkrai, Poison, and Sableye to retrieve items is top for a reason.. simple.. fast.. powerful.. hard to counter.

    Idk what we're really suppose to discuss, this isn't new information. But I'm glad there is some sort of discussion attempt going on :p
  4. leadfoot9

    leadfoot9

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    I agree that power creep is happening, but you give really bad examples. I personally think that Landorus is terrible except as a cheap donk attempt (might change in the future, with Plasma Freeze cards helping it), and Darmanitan isn't even GOOD. 120 damage for 3 energy? Try BW Zekrom and Reshiram. They were BASICS, and they actually matched up with the main energy accelerators of their day. Zekrom's Bolt Strike's drawback actually powered up its Outrage attack, too! Oh, yeah. and Empleon can do it for one energy. With an awesome Ability to boot.
  5. lucariojr

    lucariojr goodra will hunting
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    started playing in this format and i can definitely see why the veterans are labeling it as the worst. what really turned me off to the tcg (right now anyway) is the fact that EXes that can perform amazing turn one to turn two attacks are dominating the scene and thund-ex+deo-ex is looking like it's gonna be the bdif unless people find room for x4 enhanced hammers. the power creep wouldn't be a problem imo if it wasn't so damned fast and you had to work for that one energy hammerhead (like on a stage 2 or something). the only reason you need to evolve stuff nowadays is to get that deluge or dynamotor energy accel, really.
  6. Yixagurpuldink

    Yixagurpuldink

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    I HATE THE NEW FORMAT, BUT I HAVE A DECLARATION...

    This sounds odd, but there are some practical reasons to increase it. I don't like it, but it is the way it is.

    Remember the beginning of the TCG, when most pokemon had less than 60 HP? Think about the amount of damage that could be done logically. It was normally 10-40 damage. Think about the effects of actions such as poison (1 Dmg Cntr). That really didn't give you much fluctuation. Pidgey=10 Pidgeotto=20 pidgeot=30? Really? That close?

    Any player and fan knows that there is more difference that just 10 between those three. By adding more HP, the card creators could become more creative. Imagine moves in which you discard cards. For each [_____] discarded, do X damage. Early on, a move like that would have been considered OP if it was even 3 cards. Now, I think I saw a card that discarded 8 cards (14% of your deck). Think how exciting it is when you use that move. It is almost impossible to predict what will happen. Flipping coins, one of the most major aspects of the TCG ever, has undergone metamorphosis due to this change. Think about moves in which the damage is compounded for every heads flip. In order to not be overpowered in the sense of the 1st set of cards, who really couldn't flip that many times. Now... flip 4,5,6 times! The creators thought: more flips--> More excitement--> More fun.
    The 1st pokemon EX set this is motion with the basic idea of being an EX card. A player had to be willing to risk 2 prize cards for this good pokemon. "It should be worth it." The creators said. These EX pokemon had higher HP stats and attacks than before. Lo and behold, people started using them(found out they WERE worth it), and EXs almost became the norm. Other pokemon were left in the dust, and the creators had to increase their Hp too. That reduced the glory of the EXs, who were still at 2 prize cards, while their stage 2 counterparts were almost as strong for only 1. The creators made the special cards stronger, and that is where it all begins.

    I saw this power inequality coming. I wonder whether the TCG rules will pull an "ACE SPEC" criteria on EX pokemon? That would be cool.
  7. Kikuichimonji

    Kikuichimonji

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    Wondering why stage 2's aren't making a huge impact in today's metagame?

    Reverse power creep:

    Hoppip in 2000

    50 HP, no retreat cost, call for family attack

    Hoppip in 2012

    30 HP, 1 retreat cost

    In 15 years, we saw "big basic Pokemon" go from 70 HP to 180 HP, while basic Pokemon that evolve are still running around with 30-60 HP. And having that same amount of HP means less than it used to. In 1999, having 60 HP on a basic Pokemon that evolved was a lot. One of the factors that contributed to Wigglytuff from Jungle being so potent is that it evolved from a 60 HP basic, which was amazing at the time. Now, you can lead with a 60 HP basic and lose the game on turn 1. In the olden days, 40 HP wasn't a lot, but it at least meant that your opponent needed to put down several Pluspowers if they wanted to kill you on the first turn, but now it's trivially to drop down a Mewtwo EX with a Pluspower. In today's metagame, having 30 HP basically means you don't get to participate.
  8. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    Only time I ever played TCG before getting into things recently was on base set/jungle/fossil. Felt right at home with these new Basic EX decks compared to old Haymaker.

    It's obviously power creep, but it's made Pokemon come full circle from the time where 1 energy 20 and 2 energy 30/40 was a lot. Now it's just 1 energy 60 instead, with health being a lot higher as well.
  9. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    @leadfoot9 well there you go then lol. They may be bad Pokemon in the BW tcg, but they're certainly too powerful for the DPP/HGSS/Platinum era. You saying that these are bad examples basically justifies my point; If they're powerful yet still poor in today's metagame, it just shows that the cards are extrememly powerful and victim of power creep.

    @Kikuichimonji That's a very specific example. Most basics which evolve now have 60HP or even 70HP rather than 30HP.
  10. RoyalBlue

    RoyalBlue

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    There is no doubt that there is/was a power creep.EXs are the defining Pokemon cards now, but at the same damn time, ex Pokemon, SP Pokemon, Prime Pokemon were all defining components of their respective formats.

    You have to keep in mind that there are plenty of topish decks that would be nothing without their evolution cards. Think about Fluffy Chomp, GothGor (which was probably the BDiF in its format), Garbodor decks, Blastoise, Darkrai+ Hydreigon, RayEels, ReshiBoar, Flareon decks. So, yeah.
  11. Oopa

    Oopa

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    It is so funny to compare the new cards to the good ol' Base Set cards. IMO there's been the most power creep in Pokemon TCG than any other TCG (Yu-Gi-Oh maybe a bit less, and MTG the least)

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