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Power-Twist - V3.0

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by The Eevee General, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Awakened
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    Approved by Arcticblast originally, updated version approved by Hollywood


    Welcome to the metagame where your strongest moves suddenly hit like a burned Shedinja, your weaker moves suddenly punch like a drunk Machamp, and your godawful never-would-ever-use-it moves suddenly decimate foes like a judgmental Arceus.


    Time for a Power-Twist!​


    Move base power is all that changes (open)


    [​IMG]Old Base Power - New Base Power[​IMG]

    10 -> 140
    15 -> 135
    20 -> 130
    25 -> 125
    30 -> 120
    35 -> 115
    40 -> 110
    45 -> 105
    50 -> 100
    55 -> 95
    60 -> 90
    65 -> 85
    70 -> 80
    75 -> 75
    80 -> 70
    85 -> 65
    90 -> 60
    95 -> 55
    100 -> 50
    105 -> 45
    110 -> 40
    115 -> 35
    120 -> 30
    125 -> 25
    130 -> 20
    135 -> 15
    140 -> 10
    145 -> 5
    150+ -> 1




    So from now on, Close Combat only has a base power of 30? And Tackle has a base power of 100? And Leech Life is now 130? Yes!
    -BUT-
    Power comes at a price! When the strength of the moves got twisted around, so did some of their effects. What that means is moves that decreased or increased a stat now have that effect inverted. So you mean Power-Up Punch lowers Attack 1 stage now? And Superpower raises Attack and Defense? And Mud-Slap raises the opponent's accuracy? Yes to all three.
    Isn't that a little too stornk in the case of stuff like Superpower? And don't forget V-Create! Sure, if you think moves with 30 or 1 base power are threatening.
    Follow this link to see all the moves that changed.


    While turning this stuff on its head sounds really fun and all, there are a few things that need to be addressed:
    - Priority base power will stay the same! Otherwise Feint becomes the new Extreme Speed but with 120 bp that ignores Protect. Priority moves at the old 40 bp mark would become 110. Priority is generally weak for a reason so let's keep it that way.
    - Multi-hit moves will stay the same! This is for simplicity's sake and to avoid really broken moves. Sorry, you can't have a Double Kick with 120 base power that hits twice in one turn with 100% accuracy.
    - Moves that change power will have that effect reversed. For example, Knock Off will now be cut by 50% when it knocks off an item (but then goes back to full power if the opponent doesn't have one.) Pursuit will halve if the opponent switches out. Fury Cutter will get consistently weaker. Acrobatics' power is halved without an item. And so on. (see link for full list, let me know if I missed any)
    - And finally, moves that rely on factors like Happiness, Weight, Speed, PP, HP, user's items, stat boosts, and pure luck stay the same. This again is for simplicity's sake and to avoid Return with 150 base power and no drawbacks. (see link for full list)


    Well why the restrictions? I'll tell you why. I wanted this metagame to focus on moves inverting in power, not the subtle mechanics of why that happens, but instead to look at which "weak" moves become all of the sudden "strong" and who that benefits.


    Obviously there are some types that will do much better now. Bug looks dangerous with Infestation, Fell Stinger, and Leech Life. Flying gets Peck, a move almost on par with Brave Bird's bp yet with no recoil. Water Gun is Hydro Pump with 100% accuracy. Other moves to watch out for include Nuzzle, Draining Kiss, and a Rapid Spin that doubles as hazard removal and very powerful attack.


    Also, Pokemon that were once regarded for their wide movepools full of great attacks will need to look to new strategies to survive. On the flip side, Pokemon that had movepools full of so-so or weak attacks now get the chance to shine. Make of it what you will and have fun!


    examples of top OU threats (open)

    [​IMG] - Ember (110), Aerial Ace (90), Air Cutter (90), Flame Charge (100), Sky Drop (90), Power-Up Punch (110), Mud Slap (130), Rock Tomb (90), Ancient Power (90), Bite (90), Dragon Claw (70), Hidden Power (90)
    [​IMG] - Thunder Shock (110), Volt Switch (80), Ominous Wind (90), Mud-Slap (130), Hidden Power Water (90)
    [​IMG] - Shadow Claw (80), Shadow Sneak (40), Aerial Ace (90), Shadow Ball (70), Iron Head (70), Fury Cutter (110), Hidden Power (90)
    [​IMG] - Peck (115, uh-oh...), Flame Charge (100), U-turn (80), Steel Wing (80)
    [​IMG] - Bubble (110), Lick (120), Feint Attack (90), Smack Down (100), Aerial Ace (90), Acrobatics (95), U-turn (80), Power-Up Punch (110), Hidden Power (90)
    [​IMG] - Bullet Punch (40), Metal Claw (100), Fury Cutter (120), Acrobatics (95), U-turn (80), Rock Smash (120)
    [​IMG] - Dual Chop (40x2), Sand Tomb (115), Rock Tomb (90), Bulldoze (90), Rock Smash (120)
    [​IMG] - Power-Up Punch (110), Knock Off (85), Smack Down (100), Mach Punch (40), Ice Punch (75)
    [​IMG] - Smack Down (100), Bite (90), Bulldoze (90), Power-Up Punch (110)
    [​IMG] - Fire Spin (115), Mud-Slap (130), Ancient Power (90), Flash Cannon (70), Hidden Power (90)
    [​IMG] - Psyshock (70), Twister (110), Whirlpool (110), Water Pulse (90), Icy Wind (95), Mud-Slap (130), Shock Wave (90), Hidden Power (90)


    other potential threats (open)

    [​IMG] - Thanks to Leech Life (130) and Tinted Lens, Yanmega doesn't much care about Stealth Rocks anymore and will be recovering tons of HP with its high Special Attack. Air Cutter (90) is its best Flying STAB. Mud-Slap (130), Hidden Power (90), and Ancient Power (90) are good coverage moves.
    [​IMG] - With Pixilate and a much stronger Normal move in Echoed Voice (110 vs Hyper Voice's old 90), Sylveon can fire off strong attacks in between supporting the team. Thing is, if it uses Echoed Voice twice (or more) in a row, the base power drops by half each time, so it will have to attack with other moves if it wants to stay on the offensive.
    [​IMG] - No longer burdened with Close Combat's side effects, Sawk has a reliable Fighting STAB with no drawbacks in Karate Chop (100). Now that Knock Off is a bit wonky as it does less if the target is holding an item, there's Payback (100), which does full damage as long as Sawk moves first. With a base 85 Speed and good 125 Attack, Sawk is screaming for a Choice Scarf, something that combos well with Payback. Otherwise it has coverage moves in the elemental punches (still 75) or the double-edged-sword Rock Tomb (90) which will increase your target's Speed. Again, a Choice Scarf can remedy this against slower foes.
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  2. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    I would highly recommend banning Return/Frustration. This is just me, but those moves have 1 BP at min/max happiness, so they would effectively be spammable Giga Impacts. Couple that with the fact that everyone gets it... As for Hidden Power, that becomes a spammable blizzard-esque attack.
    Celever likes this.
  3. Lyto

    Lyto

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    Hmm, constrict finally gets a use :D
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  4. Prosecutor Godot

    Prosecutor Godot

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    Politoed gets BP 131 Bubble, BP 121 Ice Ball, BP 131 Mudslap...rains going to be so good. Especially with Aqua Jet Azumarill.
  5. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    I see this meta as Priority Spammers like Fake Out + BPunch + VWave Toxicroak, BP Scizor, Mach Puch Conkeldurr and pretty much anything with Fake Out tbh, so I feel this meta is going to turn out extremely priority spamming
  6. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Awakened
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    Don't worry, Return/Frustration and HP stay the same. Anything contingent on HP (Seismic Toss/Nightshade/Final Gambit/Wring Out), Speed (Gyro Ball), Weight (Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Grass Knot, Low Kick), happiness, IVs, etc etc function as normal.

    Punishment changes because its base power is based on the opponent's boosts. Fling/Natural Power's base power relies on the object held and fluctuates. Magnitude and Present are lottery moves that pick a base power at random. Those change.
  7. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Well there goes my HP Grass Ninetales ;-;
  8. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    I like this meta. There are so many unique options. Also all three Special fighting attacks are now mediocre as Focus Miss is now 31, Aura Sphere about 61, and Secret Sword is 66 meaning Keldeo is better off running Vacuum Wave even with the blobs running around.

    Funnily enough, something like venusaur benefits from physical attacks the moost. Bulldoze and Razor Leaf. Razor Leaf was a great move in Gen 1 and now it's good here.

    Edit: Nvm about the keldeo part, I keep confusing regular Keldeo with Stabmons Keldeo o.O
    The Eevee General likes this.
  9. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Does this mean that Natural Gift is always 150 BP without a berry? Or am I missing something?
  10. Kl4ng

    Kl4ng

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    Base 135 power poison sting Weedle now better than ever

    If I'm not missing anything, Frost Breath and Storm Throw now get base 110 power each with a guaranteed chance to crit, so that's probably going to need to be banned/nerfed. Other than that though, moves with very useful side effects like absorb, leech life, and struggle bug seem to be very good options for most pokes. Also Payback and Avalanch which can hit anything faster/priority users extremely hard.
  11. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    Aren't Payback and Avalanche incredibly weak against faster things?
  12. Kl4ng

    Kl4ng

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    I'm assuming that Payback will work as 100 doubled since 100 is the new base power instead of having it work as 150 - 100 = 50 since Eevee said only the original base power of the moves would be affected, though I could be wrong.
  13. Jaiho

    Jaiho

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    Garchomp could be interesting. STAB dual chop and bulldoze, fire fang, rock smash, aerial ace, metal claw, shadow claw and tackle for a pretty nice physical movepool. mud shot, twister, incinerate, and sand tomb make good special moves, for physically defensive things like skarm and tangrowth.

    tornadus is pretty cool too, it has gust, incinerate, round as a special set, but physical is where it is at. acrobatics, aerial ace, thief, astonish (finally a powerful physical ghost move), rock smash, sky drop, revenge, and a slightly better u-turn.

    oh yeah, and trappng moves, most lotably whirlpool, fire spin, and sand tomb are base 116, albeit inaccurate.



    btw, awesome meta!
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  14. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Awakened
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    Natural Gift doesn't do damage if the user is not holding a berry, so no. http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/natural_gift

    Avalanche and Revenge are base power 91. Payback is base power 101. Avalanche and Revenge double in base power when the user has already taken damage from the target that turn. Payback doubles if the user moves after the target (not including a switch). Payback will double to 202. Very lethal. Slow Dark- and Fighting-types will like it. (Fast Dark-types will want Knock Off)

    Good point. I forgot to mention those are nerfed so they are 55 base power now (110 after crit). Still better than the original 40 but they aren't widely distributed.
  15. Kl4ng

    Kl4ng

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    Zangoose

    73/115/60/60/60/90
    Ability: Toxic Boost
    Notable Moves: Feint, Swords Dance, Double Kick, Pursuit, Rock Tomb, Facade, Protect.

    Currently this thing looks to wreck in this meta. Base 121 power STAB +2 priority Feint is nothing to joke about when backed up by toxic boost and possibly a swords dance. Pursuit and Double Kick give it all the coverage it needs while it can't be protect stalled due to the fact that Feint passes right through it. Facade is slightly stronger at base 160 power, though it's hard to find room. Protect allows it to beat Fake Out users.

    Sample calcs:

    252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Feint vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 183-216 (51.69 - 61.01%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Poison Active)
    252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Feint vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 183-216 (45.29 - 53.46%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Pursuit vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 202-238 (63.32 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Now keep in mind that none of these calcs are with swords dance.

    With Feint's high priority, only fake out users can really scare Zangoose, and that's if it's not carrying protect...Truly terrifying.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  16. The Reptile

    The Reptile Wonderful Wiggling Wyrms!
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    Now that I'm home, I can write a more in-depth TTar's Choice Band/Scarf set.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Pursuit
    - Smack Down / Rock Tomb
    - Rock Smash
    - Bulldoze / Fire Fang / Ice Fang

    This set works a lot like the OU version of it, except thanks to Puruits crazy power gain, it can now run a coverage move. Pursuit has more power than the normal Crunch, but with the added bonus of doing even more damage to anything that wants to switch out. Smack Down is the best rock STAB available, but Rock Tomb is an option for the speed drops. Keep in mind both have the same BP, but Rock Tomb has 80% accuracy. Rock Smash provides strong coverage like Superpower did, except now it lowers defense instead of weakening you. The last moveslot depends on your team. Bulldoze wrecks Steel-types like Heatran and has a nifty speed drop effect. Fire Fang is mainly for Ferrothorn. Ice Fang if you hate Dragons. TTar is probably the best Pursuit Trapper in the tier.



    #powertwistdoubles2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  17. kitty mulcher

    kitty mulcher

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    Acid spray will be awesome, at 111 base base power, and guaranteed to drop opponent's spdef stat by two stages, nothing will like to come in on eelektross without a steel typing.
    Multi hit moves didn't get buffed, but considering the buff priority received, I feel that multi hit moves should all get a 50% base power boost, as if they got technician.
  18. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Awakened
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    ^Oh but they did. Some might have kept their old base power (like Bullet Seed) but other things like Double Kick, Double Hit, Spike Cannon all got big buffs.

    Only multi-hit moves that hit 25bp 2-5 times or 50bp 2 times stayed the same. Everything else got stronger.
  19. Jaiho

    Jaiho

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    Here are some possible sets I think could be effective:

    [​IMG]
    Hitmonlee @ Normal Gem
    Unburden
    252 Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    -fake out
    -mach punch
    -knock off
    -rock tomb/bulldoze/double kick

    once some physical walls are out of the way, hitmonlee can start smashing through the opponent. fake out has base 111 power, and uses up the normal gem for a massive speed boost, beating even the chlorophyll sweepers. Mach punch is for insane priority and knock off gets great neutral coverage with it. The last move can be 1 of 3 things, rock tomb hits annoying flying types, bulldoze to hit bulky poison types, and double kick is a slightly more powerful STAB.


    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
    Rough Skin
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Hp or SpAtk
    Jolly Nature
    -dual chop
    -sand tomb/bulldoze
    -incinerate/fire fang
    -rock tomb

    Garchomp, as i previously said, has a rather large movepool in this meta. Dual chop is garchomp's only dragon STAB, and is only marginally weaker than outrage. Sand tomb and bulldoze is like hydro pump and surf, sand tomb is more powerful but less accurate, and bulldoze is more reliable. incinerate or fire fang is similar to garchomp in standard, with incinerate hitting many physically defensive pokes hard and fire fang eliminating the need for a naive nature and gets boosted by the band. rock tomb is mostly for the 4x weak, such as the newly buffed volcarona.

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
    Dry Skin
    28 HP/252 SpAtk/ 228 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Substitute
    -Vacuum Wave
    -Mud Slap
    -Icy wind/Nasty plot

    I decided to make a set that would hopefully be mind-numbingly annoying and toxicroak provides just that. As many of you know, toxicroak is a pain to face in rain, with its HP restored every turn. This set alters that with a special set. Sub is an obvious move on croak, as it prevents status, and allows the dry skin healing to rack up. Vacuum wave has priority and is extremely powerful. Here is where it gets annoying. Mud slap is absurdly powerful, at 131 base power, with a 100% chance to drop accuracy. This move has the potential to cause so many switches, and lets toxicroak grab free subs. Icy wind rounds out the bullfrog's coverage, and especially handles flying types like landorus-t. Nasty Plot is a lesser option, but can be used to sweep with vacuum wave once certain counters are eliminated.
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  20. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    My primary suggestion is in regards to moves which increase in power via certain conditions, as I see them being overwhelming in this meta. Keeping with the reversal theme of the meta, I would instead have them DECREASE in power when those conditions are met. Affected moves (important ones in bold) as follows:

    Acrobatics (96) - power is halved (48) if user has no item.
    Assurance (101) - power is halved (50) if opponent has already taken damage.
    Avalanche (91) - power is halved (45) is the user takes damage.
    Brine (86) - power is halved (43) if the opponent is below 50% health.
    Bug Bite (91) - power is halved (45) if opponent is holding a berry.
    Echoed Voice (111) - power is halved (55, 27, 13...) with successive uses by friendlies.
    Facade (81) - power is halved (40) if statused.
    Fury Cutter (131) - power is halved (65, 32, 16...) with successive hits.
    Hex (101) - power is halved (50) if opponent is statused.
    Ice Ball (121) - power is halved (60, 30, 15, 7) with successive hits.
    Payback (101) - power is halved (50) if opponent has already moved.
    Pluck (91) - power is halved (45) if opponent is holding a berry.
    Punishment (91) - power is reduced by 20 for every stat boost opponent has.
    Pursuit (111) - power is halved (55) if the target switches.
    Retaliate (81) - power is halved (40) if a friendly fainted last turn.
    Revenge (91) - power is halved (45) is the user takes damage.
    Rollout (121) - power is halved (60, 30, 15, 7) with successive hits.
    Round (91) - power is halved (45) if Round has already been used this turn.
    SmellingSalt (91) - power is halved (45) on paralyzed opponents.
    Stored Power (131) - power is decreased by 20 for every stat boost user has.
    Triple Kick (141) - Power is halved on successive hits - 141+70+35=246. Very powerful, but much more reasonable than the current 141+282+564=987 the current rules allow.
    Venoshock (86) - power is halved (43) on poisoned opponents.
    Wake-Up Slap (91) - Power is halved (45) on sleeping opponents.
    Weather Ball (101) - Power is halved (50) during weather.

    On a related note, moves like Low Kick would have the opposite effect.
    Low Kick hits lighter opponents harder
    Heavy Slam hits heavier opponents harder
    Flail hits harder at high health
    Water Spout hits harder at low health
    Electro Ball hits faster opponents harder
    Gyro Ball hits slower opponents harder
  21. kitty mulcher

    kitty mulcher

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    This isn't a serious meta, priority is amazingly hard hitting, rapid spin is an offensive move, roll out is viable on shuckle. There's so many things that are unbalanced about this that I assume it'll balance itself out.
  22. TheAzumaKiller

    TheAzumaKiller

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    Cinccino uses DoubleSlap!
  23. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Awakened
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    I love it. Good collaboration. I will incorporate it.

    Technically, Triple Kick hits 57, 47, 37. Since it's a multi-hit move, I took the original base power (10), converted it to the new base power (141), and divided by 3 (47). Since the move is supposed to hit with decreasing power of base 10 (opposite of increasing power of base 10 on original move), I have it hit 57, 47, 37 in a row so it still adds to 141. The idea is it gets a total of 141, not starting at 141 and going from there.
    (It's still waaay powerful but only seen on Hitmontop, who will probably run Technician with it.)

    EDIT: Had to look at this to double check.
  24. TheAzumaKiller

    TheAzumaKiller

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    @ The Eevee General: Excuse me for having posted a really similar thread to yours, but it was only because we had the same idea a little time difference and I did not knew yours.
    @ all the forum: exxuse me for having not respected the rules of the forum. I really want grant that nothing else would happen, and I would be really happy if you give me a second possibility
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  25. juleocesar

    juleocesar

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    Nice metagame! But, are ability effects reverted? For example, will sheer force reduce damage of the moves because it increases their power in reality? And how will technician work? Will it be taking into consideration the new generated values from the meta or the original ones?

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