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Pre-Bank - Confessions of a Charizard Addict (aka balanced attack)

Discussion in 'XY OU Teams' started by my_neverender, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. my_neverender

    my_neverender

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Hi there!

    So... This guy...

    [​IMG]

    Spent most of its existence at the bottom of the barrel. Scraping for scraps and taking any job it could get.

    And then this happened:

    [​IMG]

    GameFreak (sorta) finally gave this old-timer a breath of fresh air with an awesome typing and even better ability. I haven't really played competitive Pokemon via wifi but the announcement of MegaZard X was enough to compel me to shell out money and get the game.

    and I almost named my kid "Charmander." Almost.

    A few notes when reading this RMT (which I will forever thank you for reading):

    1. This is mainly made for wifi battles sooooo suggestions like "needs moar heatran/latios/genesect etc etc" are out the window, unfortunately.

    2. Any moves that can only be gotten from the move tutor in B/W are also out the window. </3


    Team Breakdown

    And now... the team!

    Charizard, being the delicate flower that he is, is the centerpiece of this team. Everything must either be used to a. Protect Charizard or b. Do enough work for you not to use Charizard until the late-game.

    [​IMG]

    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage​

    The defacto sweeper, the superstar and the object of my unexplainable affection. Charizard X tears apart most teams when played right. Okay some of you might want it to be Adamant but from my experience, SPEED KILLS. If you can outrun it, you can kill it. Dragon Dance is the obligatory boosting move. Flare Blitz is your STAB weapon of choice and checks a lot in the current metagame. Don't worry about the recoil because Roost has you covered and surprises a lot of opponents. When the coast is clear, a DD-boosted Outrage is enough to plow through your enemies like the majestic Fire Dragon that he is.

    Running Charizard means you need a rapid spinner... that can also hold its own, probably stall, probably check other pokes while stalling. Presenting the second member:

    [​IMG]

    Tentacruel (F) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect
    - Scald​

    Boy would I love to shake hands with this guy. EV and Movelist are pretty much standard-fare but works well for me. He usually pulls a lot of weight thanks to its bulk and DOTS. Scald is there to protect you from taunts. Although Scald and Toxic are pretty much nonbos, it just provides the proper defense against Talonflame. EVs are enough to outrun a few pokes to get in that extra Toxic/Scald. Protect is there to stall and scout choice users.

    Charizard hates rocks so much that I decided to put another member that can keep rocks in check... while they're at it, why not give it more utility? The third member is....
    [​IMG]

    Espeon @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball​

    Magic Bounce is AMAZING for this team. Although Espeon needs as much babysitting as Charizard, what this alien-cat brings for your team is enough to warrant it. Magic Bounce is there to take care of YOLO smeargle and taunts and all that crap. Switching into hazard setters pretty much guarantees a calm mind. I can then proceed to slowly chipping away at the opponent's team. Dazzling Gleam handles dark and dragons, psyshock for the solid stab and shadow ball for the ghosts of the world.

    But now I need rocks of my own... something tough and maybe provides even MORE utility.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 48 Def / 252 HP / 208 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave​

    I lovingly call him the ant-Khan and slayer (well more like crippler) of Talonflames. Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet is just too much fun. This is your obligatory SR setter. Leech Seed to stall out opponents (make sure you don't put it on a Tentacruel... that's not cool.) Power Whip so you actually have something to do when you're taunted. Thunder Wave is there to further stall your opponent and hope that it gives enough time for your Charizard to set up.

    But now we need more beef, something that can punch holes in the opponent's team and synergizes well with the rest of the crew. Voila:

    [​IMG]

    Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Icicle Crash​

    Before you crucify me for using Assault Vest on Mamoswine, do note that one glaring weakness of this team is fire and grass type moves. Assault Vest is there to let Mamoswine survive one attack long enough for it to OHKO with its diverse set of moves. Now that that's out of the way, this guy has killed so many dragons it's not even funny anymore. I chose Rock Slide over Stone Edge because I prefer actually hitting my targets. All-around solid Pokemon.

    And now, the wildcard.
    [​IMG]

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 28 SAtk / 248 HP / 232 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Volt Switch
    - Protect​

    Yes it is a bit of a cop-out to run Rotom-W but I am so afraid of mega-khan and talonflame that I have to run 2 - 3 checks for those two. Despite that, this good ol' floating washing machine puts in a lot of work. This is a pretty standard build designed to handle physical attackers while crippling them with WOW WHILE keeping momentum with Volt Switch. Protect is there to stall for more Leftovers life and burn damage.

    Bench Players (possible replacements)

    [​IMG]

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Taunt
    - U-turn
    - Grass Knot​

    Everyone's favorite frog ninja was one of the original members of this team but got booted out in favor of Espeon. Greninja was the ultimate anti-lead. Although I'm still not sure if this was a good idea but the prospect of Magic Bounce was much more tempting than a fast taunter than can carry you in the late-game with its fantastic ability and moveset. Ice Beam takes care of Dragons, Plants and Ground while Taunt screwed with YOLO Smeargles and pretty much and hazard setter. Grass Knot tore Gastrodon and Mamoswine a new one while U-Turn OHKOd Malamar and puts a serious hurt on Psychic types.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Thunderbolt​

    The not-so-friendly ghost was also one of the original members but got replaced by Rotom-W since Rotom-W obviously brings a lot more utility. This guy however is a howitzer that outspeeds a lot of pokes and rips them apart with this diverse move pool: Sludge Bomb nukes Fairies to kingdom come, Dazzling Gleam blows up Dark and Dragons, Thunderbolt fries water types and Shadow Ball just goes through everything now that Steel's been nerfed.
    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Wish​

    Tried him out for a while in place of Rotom-W. The logic behind it was that sure it can take hits from Talonflame and Mega-Khan but it also supports the team with Wish Bombs and stalls out like a champ thanks to Toxic. It didn't work out so well but maybe with your help, and a bit of team shuffling, he could find its way back to the group.

    With my lineup constantly changing because of tweaks and testing, below is my current team. The one listed above is still the "main" team because their formula works already and I've figured out the ins and outs of it. This part of the OP will always be changing until I find a team more solid than the one above. Thanks!

    Current Team Lineup:
    current team (open)


    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Rapid Spin

    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Dazzling Gleam

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    Florges (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flower Veil
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Aromatherapy
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Moonblast

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Volt Switch
    - Protect

    It was very hard replacing Mamoswine with Florges but since I only have Mamo there to check dragons and plants, Florges can sort of pick up the slack. As for handling plants, Florges' main job is to help Charizard survive so he can do a little gardening.

    With Mamoswine gone, the team started lacking a little more firepower despite what Charizard and Scarfed Gengar can provide so a offensive rapid spinner was called upon. At first it was excadrill but then I leaned more towards Starmie coz I am deathly afraid of Megazard Y.


    And there you have it. I'm quite excited with this team and I've been durdling around mid-1600s (had to climb back from 1000). Please please please give any feedback as they are all welcome. Thank you for reading!
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  2. my_neverender

    my_neverender

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Bump. Anyone?
  3. Piconoe

    Piconoe

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    71
    If you decide to switch back to Gengar, run either Substitute or Choice Scarf. He is way way way way WAAAAAAAAAY too damn squishy without a Sub to expect Leftovers to do a damn thing. Choice Scarf gets him over literally every non-scarf'd Pokemon in the game (he can outspeed a Timid 252 Spe Deoxys-S). Substitute is also a really good choice and is a near staple on the Mega Gengar movesets, just obviously no Sub+Choice. It's really good if you predict a switch and lets you sponge what would be an otherwise devastating OHKO from the enemy Poke.

    Choice Specs could also be good if you find that your real threats are slower than Timid 252 Spe Gengar w/o Scarf across the board but you find your damage coming too short. Before switching to Specs, be sure to check and make sure that threats that don't die to non-Specs will actually die to Specs.

    Fun fact: If Mega Gengar ever becomes a threat to your team, Scarf Gengar outspeeds him and gets a guaranteed OHKO when not under Sub.
  4. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    First, two small things:
    1.Why zero speee IVs on ferrothorn without gyroball? I would replace stealth rocks with Gyro ball on ferrothorn since you already have rotom to protect you from flying types. Gyro ball will give you some nice coverage too.

    2.I think the switch from Gengar to R-W was a good choice if you aren't planning on using mega-gengar (in which case substitute>dazzling gleam) because of its defensive capabilities. I see little reason to go back to Gengar.

    The biggest weak point I see is Espeon, who isn't hurting your team, but also isn't really helping it either. You don't need magic bounce when you have rapid spin as having both is rather excessive, especially in this generation where I am seeing less and less hazards being used. I unterstand your need for coverage though, so I suggest this as a replacement:


    Togekiss @ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Baton Pass
    - Roost
    - Shadow Ball

    An offensive Togekiss will really help in this situation as it can both take a beating and give you the coverage you need. I understand how this set is a tad bit out of the ordinary, but believe me when I tell you it works wonders. People have used offensive Togekiss before and this set in particular is one of my faves. The coverage is essential to your team, and this set provides you get the most coverage possible. Also, in case all else fails, baton pass can really provide your other Pokemon with an edge. Plus it counters most any dragon you'll come across in the tier.

    Another option if you feel like baton pass isn't working is to give it thunder wave, but since Ferrothorn already has thunder wave I would advise replacing T-wave on Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball instead of my previous suggestion to replace stealth rocks with Gyro ball. This is mainly to keep more diversity among your party.

    I hope I could help :D
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  5. my_neverender

    my_neverender

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    OMG thanks for the replies!

    Anyway, I've edit the OP to replace Espeon into a special attacker. Details added for that as well.

    On to the comments

    Piconoe :
    So I've been playing around PS! using scarfed gengar in place of espeon and it's been working a lot better fortunately. Although he requires more care when used, he's very capable. And also you're right when you said that scarfed Gengar outruns MeGengar. Dope.

    Basileus :
    That really is an odd build. Why Super Lucky instead of Serene Grace when you're packing T-Wave and Air Slash? What's the baton pass for? Sorry if I'm missing anything. Anyway, I'm going to try out and report back on what works and what doesn't.

    I've taken into account your suggestions and this is the team currently being tested.


    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage

    Togekiss (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 SAtk / 72 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Flamethrower
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave

    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Dazzling Gleam

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 48 Def / 252 HP / 208 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    Excadrill @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Rapid Spin
    - Poison Jab

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Wish
    - Protect


    So the new ones aside from Gengar and Togekiss are Vaporeon and Excadrill. Vaporeon provides the stall and the wish bombs to really extend the team's longevity. I replaced Tentacruel with Excadrill just to mitigate the team's glaring weakness to thunder attacks and provide solid EQ and RS.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  6. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    Sorry, I meant to put serene grace, I get those two abilities confused. Also, Baton pass is for when weakness policy activates so you can give the +2 Atk/SAtk boost to someone else. I've never tested it out before but I just thought you might want to use a move other than thunder wave because it's already on Ferrothorn. You seemed to have worked it out though.
  7. my_neverender

    my_neverender

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    LOL i thought so. The weakness policy though... that's mighty funky but i NEED to try it out. Just need something to hit me with poison/steel attacks to activate it. How's it working for you so far?


    EDIT: oh right so it also triggers off rock, ice, lightning... hmmmmm
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  8. Basileus

    Basileus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    279
    Works great for me, the best is when rotom-W uses volt switch because it only does like 30% damage. It really turns Togekiss into an offensive threat.
  9. PumpHead

    PumpHead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    135
    I'd say take the HP EVs off Charizard so it can survive 2 SR switch ins. It's a mistake that I did that I recently corrected with my Charizard and Volcarona sets.
  10. my_neverender

    my_neverender

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    PumpHead :
    Oh I didn't know that! I might put it into Sdef since the ones that threaten me more are stuff like thunderbolt and surf and all that satks.

    Anyway, I've played around the team for a bit and I'm finding florges to be a very valuable asset to the team. With rotoms running around the metagame setting fire to everything, I figured that someone who can deal with statuses will be invaluable for the team. Combine that with Wish and the fairy typing and you have yourself one helluva cleric second only to Blissey (of course). This is the team, currently:


    current team (open)
    Charizard @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Rapid Spin

    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Dazzling Gleam

    Ferrothorn (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    Florges (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flower Veil
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Aromatherapy
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Moonblast

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Volt Switch
    - Protect

    It was very hard replacing Mamoswine with Florges but since I only have Mamo there to check dragons and plants, Florges can sort of pick up the slack. As for handling plants, Florges' main job is to help Charizard survive so he can do a little gardening.

    With Mamoswine gone, the team started lacking a little more firepower despite what Charizard and Scarfed Gengar can provide so a offensive rapid spinner was called upon. At first it was excadrill but then I leaned more towards Starmie coz I am deathly afraid of Megazard Y.


    Seriously... Mega-Khan, Talonflame and Aegislash are an abomination. They've totally warped the metagame to the point that you HAVE to have and answer for them. If you don't, you die.


    I also edited the OP to contain a "current team" section. Do give feedback about which you think is better or if there are any more suggestions.

    Thanks for the feedback and keep them coming!
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013

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