Metagame Pre-Release USUM Monotype Discussion

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Eien

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#1
WARNING: This thread will contain spoilers.

The purpose of this thread is for any USUM speculation or discussion with regards to specifically Monotype. There's a lot of information going around, so please do make sure things are verified. There are a lot of absolutely crazy changes that are coming to Monotype due to a ton of move distribution!

To quote Cloud9 NxtLvl who gave a few notable new changes along with linking some pastebins with a lot of recently leaked information:
Cloud9 NxtLvl said:
Notable Mentions:
-Everything gets Defog; Landorus/Thundurus/Tornadus forms, Gliscor, Blaziken, Dragonite (w/ Multiscale), even Klefki, and many more.
-Toxapex and Tapu Fini get Knock Off.
-There is a supposed evolution for the UB Absorption named "Naganadel"; Poison/Dragon typing with 73/73/73/127/73/121 stats and Beast Boost, making it naturally faster than Latios and one speed point under Greninja. (THIS IS A MON TO WATCH FOR)
-Tapu Koko gets Iron Head and Thunder Punch; better moves to abuse its physical attack safely while also having the ability to check other Fairies (Z-Mirror Move meta?)
-Araquanid gets Magic Coat (New method of Bug/Water hazard control?)
-Kommo-o gets Stealth Rock, Superpower, Drain Punch, All Elemental Punches, Iron Head, and so much other much needed moves.
-Dugtrio (Regular) gets Iron Head.
-Alolan-Muk gets all Elemental Punches.
-Alolan-Golem gets Fire Punch (beats and traps certain steels a.k.a Ferrothorn)

New Pokemon Stat Leaks: https://pastebin.com/iXRpFcj6

Move Tutor List: https://pastebin.com/Uxme1NkC

Entire Dex Move Tutor List: https://pastebin.com/raw/j8CnVgCc
Please keep USUM discussion here and not in the main SM metagame discussion thread.
 
#2
I will include one thing that I forgot to mention in that post; everything after my point on Naganadel are Pokemon with moves assumed to be learned only via Move Tutor. Defog is an exception as I'm currently under the assumption that the move can be taught by either Move Tutor or TM.
 
#4
wow so here are my thoughts (spoilers ahead):

Naganadel (poison/dragon, Base Stats: 73/73/73/127/73/121)
- This will largely depend on its moveset, but those stats are reminiscent of Nihilego, trading the awesome special bulk for 20 more points of speed. Unfortunately this will be forced to run Timid to outspeed scarf Latios and sand rush Exca, which forces Beast Boost to boost speed with each kill. Poison teams are gonna see stiff competition between this, Nihilego and Gengar for their scarf needs, and overall Rock/Ghost coverage is more important than Dragon (though if this thing gets Ice Beam or Quiver Dance or something like that, that'd be a serious point in its favor). Dragon teams, however, would love a fast scarfer with STAB poison to pick off all fairies (Mimikyu and Mega-Diancie require some prior chip damage + SR with no beast boost, and Klefki is obv immune, but everything else is outsped and crushed). Don't rely on this thing to soak up Fairy damage though....

Stakataka (UB Assembly, rock/steel) has base 13 speed and rock/steel typing which is ass despite enormous defense. Unless it gets killer moves, this one is gonna be a hard pass.

Blacephalon (UB Burst, fire/ghost, 53/127/53/151/79/107)
- those stats scream "mixed kartana" and fire (and especially Ghost) are gonna love having this thing with a scarf. Being able to run Timid while still boosting the attack stat of your choice, while having offenses that can be tailored to your team needs looks pretty borked; hopefully this thing gets good moves (heat wave already confirmed via move tutor, and I can't imagine this not getting shadow ball..)

Zeraora (electric, 88/112/75/102/80/143)
- volt absorb as an ability is meh, but this thing looks to be a physical electric attacker about as strong as Thundurus (with access to Knock Off and Superpower/Drain Punch and Fire Punch confirmed) but quite a bit faster; the only relevant things outspeeding this are Mega-Zam and Deoxys-S. Don't know how this will fit on an Electric team what with Tapu Koko getting physical options and A-Golem trapping and killing Ferro now, but this looks to be a viable team option so far.. it's too bad it wasn't Electric/Fight or Electric/Dragon, looking at the coverage this thing gets from move tutors alone...

-- Alolan Muk getting Fire Punch and Ice Punch is nice, but IMO Shadow Sneak is more important for priority as the 4th move... I could see myself being proven wrong on this though

-- Dugtrio getting Iron Head sounds OK, but Tapu Bulu takes more from Sludge Wave anyway sadly

-- Klefki and Whimsicott w/ priority Defog sounds awesome, looking forward to being even more pissed off by this thing. Other interesting recipients of Defog include all Rotom forms, Tapu Koko, and Silvally for some reason, so Electric finally has options for hazard control (not that Zapdos was a poor option or anything...)

-- Notable new stealth rockers include: Alolan Marowak and Palossand (woohoo Ghost), and Kommo-O (who already looks like it'll be an S-rank dragon and fighting mon)
EDIT: Derp i guess Wak already gets rocks...

-- Kingdra gets Laser Focus now, which allows for some niche Sniper shenanigans w/o forcing you to run scope lens (lol)

-- Toxapex already has 4MSS, but adding Magic Coat and Block to its moveset will make it even more of a cancer on the metagame

-- Mimikyu gets a new exclusive Z move (Let's Snuggle Forever??) off of Play Rough; hopefully it comes with a cool side effect?

Can't wait:)
 
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#5
wow so here are my thoughts (spoilers ahead):

Naganadel (poison/dragon, Base Stats: 73/73/73/127/73/121)
- This will largely depend on its moveset, but those stats are reminiscent of Nihilego, trading the awesome special bulk for 20 more points of speed. Unfortunately this will be forced to run Timid to outspeed scarf Latios and sand rush Exca, which forces Beast Boost to boost speed with each kill. Poison teams are gonna see stiff competition between this, Nihilego and Gengar for their scarf needs, and overall Rock/Ghost coverage is more important than Dragon (though if this thing gets Ice Beam or Quiver Dance or something like that, that'd be a serious point in its favor). Dragon teams, however, would love a fast scarfer with STAB poison to pick off all fairies (Mimikyu and Mega-Diancie require some prior chip damage + SR with no beast boost, and Klefki is obv immune, but everything else is outsped and crushed). Don't rely on this thing to soak up Fairy damage though....

Stakataka (UB Assembly, rock/steel) has base 13 speed and rock/steel typing which is ass despite enormous defense. Unless it gets killer moves, this one is gonna be a hard pass.

Blacephalon (UB Burst, fire/ghost, 53/127/53/151/79/107)
- those stats scream "mixed kartana" and fire (and especially Ghost) are gonna love having this thing with a scarf. Being able to run Timid while still boosting the attack stat of your choice, while having offenses that can be tailored to your team needs looks pretty borked; hopefully this thing gets good moves (heat wave already confirmed via move tutor, and I can't imagine this not getting shadow ball..)

Zeraora (electric, 88/112/75/102/80/143)
- volt absorb as an ability is meh, but this thing looks to be a physical electric attacker about as strong as Thundurus (with access to Knock Off and Superpower/Drain Punch and Fire Punch confirmed) but quite a bit faster; the only relevant things outspeeding this are Mega-Zam and Deoxys-S. Don't know how this will fit on an Electric team what with Tapu Koko getting physical options and A-Golem trapping and killing Ferro now, but this looks to be a viable team option so far.. it's too bad it wasn't Electric/Fight or Electric/Dragon, looking at the coverage this thing gets from move tutors alone...

-- Alolan Muk getting Fire Punch and Ice Punch is nice, but IMO Shadow Sneak is more important for priority as the 4th move... I could see myself being proven wrong on this though

-- Dugtrio getting Iron Head sounds OK, but Tapu Bulu takes more from Sludge Wave anyway sadly

-- Klefki and Whimsicott w/ priority Defog sounds awesome, looking forward to being even more pissed off by this thing. Other interesting recipients of Defog include all Rotom forms, Tapu Koko, and Silvally for some reason, so Electric finally has options for hazard control (not that Zapdos was a poor option or anything...)

-- Notable new stealth rockers include: Alolan Marowak and Palossand (woohoo Ghost), and Kommo-O (who already looks like it'll be an S-rank dragon and fighting mon)

-- Kingdra gets Laser Focus now, which allows for some niche Sniper shenanigans w/o forcing you to run scope lens (lol)

-- Toxapex already has 4MSS, but adding Magic Coat and Block to its moveset will make it even more of a cancer on the metagame

-- Mimikyu gets a new exclusive Z move (Let's Snuggle Forever??) off of Play Rough; hopefully it comes with a cool side effect?

Can't wait:)
Did you forget that Pex gets Knock Off? Now it's really gonna be legit cancer.
Also I wouldn't say that Kommo-o is gonna be all that great, that typing and speed are still prohibitively poor.
Assembly is shit, it didn't get much of a movepool as we saw in the leaks. It's a shame tbh.
Burst gets what it needs - good special STAB moves (Fire blast and Shadow Ball), and trick. It gets almost nothing on the physical side though, which is a real shame.
 
#6
Alolawak isn't a new SR user
And I don't see Pex using knock off, muk carries it on poison and the regular set on water (scald, tspikes, recover, bunker/haze) would be better in general, and beats the normal core.
Also I'm seeing webs fairy which could be fun, and I think araquanid was getting webs as well?
 
#7
Wow wow wow. Here are all of my collective thoughts on the new additions on the metagame. I definitely didn’t expect this much, but here it goes:


I think this Pokemon has the potential to stay in Monotype.

I think this is one of the most interesting reveals in USUM as of yet along with the Poison/Dragon mon but that’s for another post. I know this is a hot take but Necrozma Dawn Wings at a glance looks like a manageable metagame threat. Granted it still has ridiculous stats combined with retaining Autotomize and pretty good coverage, it is far worse than Lunala. It loses out on the really important Prism Armor as well as its Speed and massive HP stats. Here are the stats for it:

97/113/109/157/127/77

It still retains its Psychic/Ghost typing which suffers defensively from two massive weaknesses to Ghost and Dark. I believe it does have quickban potential due to how scary it still looks but I believe Monotype shouldn’t include it in its initial banlist to see how it fares in this brand new metagame.



Wow. I can guarantee that this Pokemon will be on the chopping block almost immediately. 127 Special Attack, 121 Speed and Beast Boost boosting Speed with a Timid nature along with access to Nasty Plot really puts this mon over the edge. The Dragon/Poison typing means it will be S rank material on both of these types, either with a Nasty Plot set or a Choice Scarf set. Definitely a Pokemon to watch out for as it can outspeed stuff like Alakazam naturally and even Adamant Excadrill in the sand after a single Beast Boost. Modest Scarf allows it to boost its Special Attack as well, making it a very dangerous Pokemon.

It’s excellent STAB combination is going to be something to watch out for as we probably flesh out some quickbans at the start of the meta. I can see a Z-Draco Meteor set make waves in Monotype as we hope for the meta to adapt to this Pokemon. Another thing to note is access to Heat Wave in order to hit Steel types.



garbage lol



I can actually see this being pretty solid for Fire and Ghost teams alike. It has an amazing Special Attack stat of 151 and an even greater signature move in Mind Blown. While I did think it was going to be faster, 107 gets the job done and can be patched up with a Choice Scarf while Beast Boost can boost its Special Attack or its high Attack as well. However it is important to note this mon is incredibly frail and weak to just about anything that can outspeed it. Also has access to Trick which is always nice for a special Choice Scarf user to be able to deal with stuff like Chansey.

Ghost STAB is great for Fire and Fire STAB is great for Ghost, but it’s still weak to SR and can be worn down extremely easily. I think it’ll have a niche on both types but won’t be anything game changing.



I think this is honestly a really underwhelming mon. While it is insanely fast and has a great physical movepool by the looks of it, it’s still so average. The mono electric typing hurts it badly, and it’s offenses are only average. I can see this have somewhat of a niche thanks to Drain Punch and Knock Off aiding the Normal matchup, but that’s about it. Thundurus seems so much better for this role.

Another thing to note is Volt Absorb being a pretty useless ability.


 
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#8
Also I'm seeing webs fairy which could be fun, and I think araquanid was getting webs as well?
Electroweb =/= sticky web

EDIT: NM I just saw the egg moves list; Ribombee and Slurpuff get Sticky webz now as well as Araquanid (RIP surskit water teams)



I think this Pokemon has the potential to stay in Monotype.

I think this is one of the most interesting reveals in USUM as of yet along with the Poison/Dragon mon but that’s for another post. I know this is a hot take but Necrozma Dawn Wings at a glance looks like a manageable metagame threat. Granted it still has ridiculous stats combined with retaining Autotomize and pretty good coverage, it is far worse than Lunala. It loses out on the really important Prism Armor as well as its Speed and massive HP stats. Here are the stats for it:

97/113/109/157/127/77

It still retains its Psychic/Ghost typing which suffers defensively from two massive weaknesses to Bug and Dark. I believe it does have quickban potential due to how scary it still looks but I believe Monotype shouldn’t include it in its initial banlist to see how it fares in this brand new metagame.
I'm a bit wary on this, as while Shadow Shield was an unfortunate loss for this thing, it's not exactly a defensive slouch with stats comparable to many of monotype's defensive mons. For reference, if you run this thing with its Z-crystal,

252+ Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Dawn Wings: 279-333 (83 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is max attack A-Muk (which is never run), and while this thing can't exactly beat Muk in return, it does get Earth Power to make a significant dent in it. Also, while the double weak to Ghost/Dark is sucky, I'll point out that those two are the only weaknesses this thing has, and you will be hard pressed to OHKO this thing without a Ghost or Dark move. Also, while not exactly fast, it does get Autotomize along with Moongeist Beam (which ignores abilities)

While I see this thing getting banned ultimately, though, I'd personally be open to at least a suspect test to allow it in Monotype...
 
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#9
wow so here are my thoughts (spoilers ahead):

Naganadel (poison/dragon, Base Stats: 73/73/73/127/73/121)
- This will largely depend on its moveset, but those stats are reminiscent of Nihilego, trading the awesome special bulk for 20 more points of speed. Unfortunately this will be forced to run Timid to outspeed scarf Latios and sand rush Exca, which forces Beast Boost to boost speed with each kill. Poison teams are gonna see stiff competition between this, Nihilego and Gengar for their scarf needs, and overall Rock/Ghost coverage is more important than Dragon (though if this thing gets Ice Beam or Quiver Dance or something like that, that'd be a serious point in its favor). Dragon teams, however, would love a fast scarfer with STAB poison to pick off all fairies (Mimikyu and Mega-Diancie require some prior chip damage + SR with no beast boost, and Klefki is obv immune, but everything else is outsped and crushed). Don't rely on this thing to soak up Fairy damage though....
Don't forget Naganadel gets Nasty Plot and Heat Wave for hitting steel types.

This makes it a very dangerous set up sweeper with speed boosting; and its' decent bulk and good resists give it lots of set up opportunities. Z-Draco sweeper sounds like the go-to option, but depending on it's other coverage options you might consider 4 attacks Life Orb. The scarf set could be good (although jolly rush Exca outspeeds), since while Nihilegos or Gengar's STAB options have better coverage, Draco Meteor is significantly stronger than either which may make it a better revenge killer.

I see this mon making Dragon Mirrors a nightmare though, since it's excellent speed allow it to set up on anything and Mega Altaria can't check it. Dragon won't have many options once it gets rolling, besides using their own Naganadel and hoping it outspeeds or hoping you got off enough chip to kill with Extremespeed. It's impressive that it has even less counterplay than Mega Altaria.
 
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#10
Alright so out of all these leaks, I'm gonna be covering the most important one that I am very excited about.



Golem-Alola @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brick Break
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

With Fire Punch, this could lead to a few specific optimizations on Alolan Golem's typical spread. Now that it no longer has to run any Special Attack, it's free to dump everything into its far superior 120 Attack stat. The 20 extra EVs that can be placed into HP are also appreciated, but not largely important. Fire Punch when paired with the Firium Z can nab a few KOs that Z-Fire Blast is incapable of doing. Here are some comparisons:

Ferrothorn:
Fire Punch: 252 Atk Golem-Alola Inferno Overdrive (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Ferrothorn: 432-512 (122.7 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fire Blast: 136 SpA Golem-Alola Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Ferrothorn: 280-332 (79.5 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Excadrill:
252 Atk Golem-Alola Inferno Overdrive (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 436-514 (120.7 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
136 SpA Golem-Alola Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Excadrill: 286-338 (79.2 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Even at max Attack, Earthquake doesn't guarantee a KO)



Golem-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Wild Charge
- Earthquake
- last move doesn't matter in the slightest(Brick Break, Toxic, anything filler really)

Another potentially solid option for Alolan Golem now that it won't have to run Special Attack is the possibility of Choice Band sets, allowing it to pick up some of the same KOs for the most part, while also including a few additions:

Ferrothorn:
252 Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Ferrothorn: 348-412 (98.8 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Mega Scizor:
252 Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 48 Def Scizor-Mega: 336-396 (97.9 - 115.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Excadrill:
252 Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 466-550 (129 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Celesteela:
252 Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 408-480 (102.5 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO(this wouldn't really happen with any other set)

Skarmory:
252 Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 236-282 (70.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery(Firium Z sets are unable to guarantee a 2HKO, which is an unfortunate downside)

Since this set won't be using a Z-crystal, this frees up the possibility of running Rockium Z on SubSD Terrak(or Double Dance but imo that's meh on Rock), which performs much better in matchups like Normal and Flying. However, this set does have its downsides. For example, it won't be able to consistently keep screens away from Klefki in the Fairy MU. Nevertheless, both of these sets are viable options, and I look forward to trying them out when USUM rolls around.

UB Assembly is hot ass oml, still gonna try building around it but good lord why is this mon so bad

Alolatails gets Foul Play but honestly it won't be very worth it over Encore

None of Alolaslash's new moves are worth it rip

But the most important thing: no mach punch crab :(
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Crabominable Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-426 (99.7 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Crabominable Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 252-296 (92.9 - 109.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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#11
wow so here are my thoughts (spoilers ahead):

Naganadel (poison/dragon, Base Stats: 73/73/73/127/73/121)
- This will largely depend on its moveset, but those stats are reminiscent of Nihilego, trading the awesome special bulk for 20 more points of speed. Unfortunately this will be forced to run Timid to outspeed scarf Latios and sand rush Exca, which forces Beast Boost to boost speed with each kill. Poison teams are gonna see stiff competition between this, Nihilego and Gengar for their scarf needs, and overall Rock/Ghost coverage is more important than Dragon (though if this thing gets Ice Beam or Quiver Dance or something like that, that'd be a serious point in its favor). Dragon teams, however, would love a fast scarfer with STAB poison to pick off all fairies (Mimikyu and Mega-Diancie require some prior chip damage + SR with no beast boost, and Klefki is obv immune, but everything else is outsped and crushed). Don't rely on this thing to soak up Fairy damage though....

Stakataka (UB Assembly, rock/steel) has base 13 speed and rock/steel typing which is ass despite enormous defense. Unless it gets killer moves, this one is gonna be a hard pass.

Blacephalon (UB Burst, fire/ghost, 53/127/53/151/79/107)
- those stats scream "mixed kartana" and fire (and especially Ghost) are gonna love having this thing with a scarf. Being able to run Timid while still boosting the attack stat of your choice, while having offenses that can be tailored to your team needs looks pretty borked; hopefully this thing gets good moves (heat wave already confirmed via move tutor, and I can't imagine this not getting shadow ball..)

Zeraora (electric, 88/112/75/102/80/143)
- volt absorb as an ability is meh, but this thing looks to be a physical electric attacker about as strong as Thundurus (with access to Knock Off and Superpower/Drain Punch and Fire Punch confirmed) but quite a bit faster; the only relevant things outspeeding this are Mega-Zam and Deoxys-S. Don't know how this will fit on an Electric team what with Tapu Koko getting physical options and A-Golem trapping and killing Ferro now, but this looks to be a viable team option so far.. it's too bad it wasn't Electric/Fight or Electric/Dragon, looking at the coverage this thing gets from move tutors alone...

-- Alolan Muk getting Fire Punch and Ice Punch is nice, but IMO Shadow Sneak is more important for priority as the 4th move... I could see myself being proven wrong on this though

-- Dugtrio getting Iron Head sounds OK, but Tapu Bulu takes more from Sludge Wave anyway sadly

-- Klefki and Whimsicott w/ priority Defog sounds awesome, looking forward to being even more pissed off by this thing. Other interesting recipients of Defog include all Rotom forms, Tapu Koko, and Silvally for some reason, so Electric finally has options for hazard control (not that Zapdos was a poor option or anything...)

-- Notable new stealth rockers include: Alolan Marowak and Palossand (woohoo Ghost), and Kommo-O (who already looks like it'll be an S-rank dragon and fighting mon)

-- Kingdra gets Laser Focus now, which allows for some niche Sniper shenanigans w/o forcing you to run scope lens (lol)

-- Toxapex already has 4MSS, but adding Magic Coat and Block to its moveset will make it even more of a cancer on the metagame

-- Mimikyu gets a new exclusive Z move (Let's Snuggle Forever??) off of Play Rough; hopefully it comes with a cool side effect?

Can't wait:)

...Actually, it's quite interesting that you mention a couple of extra good things out of that long list of text.

Mentioning that the Rotom forms have access to Defog now make it so that Fire, Grass, and Ice now have better, more reliable forms of hazard removal, without having to overly rely on Spinners or making something a Defogger where another move can serve a better purpose. Considering also that all forms have Levitate, Rocks will be the only hazards you have to worry about on switch-in, so spike stacks are useless.

While I do agree Naganadel is powerful, the stats still have quite a bit of drawbacks. 73 HP, Def, and SpD are pretty poor for a fast offensive mon when compared versus its sister mon Nihilego, which has relatively decent HP and SpDef, or Latios, which has reliable recovery to shake off damaging moves. 121 Speed while great is still undersped by Greninja, Sand Rush Excadrill, top offensive threats that of which have no trouble chipping away or knocking out this mon, assuming if it is non-scarf Nasty Plot. Also, from the looks of it, this thing gets checked/walled to shit (for lack of a better term) by Heatran, Chansey, Toxapex, AV Seismitoad, and other specially defensive monsters at base value.

Also: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ultra-sun-ultra-moon-datamine-thread.3620028/

What I linked above is the FULL thread of datamined information from Monday when it was released, yet no one heard about it until early yesterday morning. If you're curious, I recommend checking it out. If something cool catches your eye that we happened to miss, please don't hesitate to post so here.

Edit: Ultra Necrozma's Ability "Neuroforce" basically boosts Super-Effective moves the power equivalent of a Life Orb. Insta-ban for Monotype Ubers.

Edit 2: Scratch Mantine being a wall, Naganadel gets TBolt.
 
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#12
Mentioning that the Rotom forms have access to Defog now make it so that Fire, Grass, and Ice now have better, more reliable forms of hazard removal, without having to overly rely on Spinners or making something a Defogger where another move can serve a better purpose. Considering also that all forms have Levitate, Rocks will be the only hazards you have to worry about on switch-in, so spike stacks are useless.
No idea why I decided not to mention Rotom-Frost getting Defog lol. I still think it's inferior to Avalugg and Alolan Sandslash as hazard removers, though, since Avalugg has a significantly better form of reliable sustain, while checking a broader range of physical threats, whereas Alolan Sandslash arguably works better as an offensive hazard remover since it'll be able to force out more threats under hail to give itself the opportunity to spin (Tapu Koko, Excadrill, etc.). Alolan Sandslash itself also has an immunity to Toxic Spikes. However, I suppose Rotom-Frost shouldn't be entirely overlooked, evading all entry hazards outside of Stealth Rock while also offering some momentum with Volt Switch. Thanks for mentioning this, as it's also something to look further into.
 
#13
...Actually, it's quite interesting that you mention a couple of extra good things out of that long list of text.

Mentioning that the Rotom forms have access to Defog now make it so that Fire, Grass, and Ice now have better, more reliable forms of hazard removal, without having to overly rely on Spinners or making something a Defogger where another move can serve a better purpose. Considering also that all forms have Levitate, Rocks will be the only hazards you have to worry about on switch-in, so spike stacks are useless.

While I do agree Naganadel is powerful, the stats still have quite a bit of drawbacks. 73 HP, Def, and SpD are pretty poor for a fast offensive mon when compared versus its sister mon Nihilego, which has relatively decent HP and SpDef, or Latios, which has reliable recovery to shake off damaging moves. 121 Speed while great is still undersped by Greninja, Sand Rush Excadrill, top offensive threats that of which have no trouble chipping away or knocking out this mon, assuming if it is non-scarf Nasty Plot. Also, from the looks of it, this thing gets checked/walled to shit (for lack of a better term) by Heatran, Chansey, Toxapex, AV Seismitoad, and other specially defensive monsters at base value.

Also: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ultra-sun-ultra-moon-datamine-thread.3620028/

What I linked above is the FULL thread of datamined information from Monday when it was released, yet no one heard about it until early yesterday morning. If you're curious, I recommend checking it out. If something cool catches your eye that we happened to miss, please don't hesitate to post so here.

Edit: Ultra Necrozma's Ability "Neuroforce" basically boosts Super-Effective moves the power equivalent of a Life Orb. Insta-ban for Monotype Ubers.

Edit 2: Scratch Mantine being a wall, Naganadel gets TBolt.
Forget thunderbolt, here is what you should be worried about:

Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
*This is the only pokemon in existence that resists poison/dragon/fire coverage
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 124+ SpD Mantine: 388-457 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 351-414 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 481-567 (116.1 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 331-390 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 582-685 (90.6 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
**+6 sounds ridiculous, but you are immune to Toxic and Chansey can't exactly do much besides paralyze you.

Did I mention that every time this set scores a kill, it boosts its speed one stage? :)
 
#14
Forget thunderbolt, here is what you should be worried about:

Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
*This is the only pokemon in existence that resists poison/dragon/fire coverage
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 124+ SpD Mantine: 388-457 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 351-414 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 481-567 (116.1 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 331-390 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 582-685 (90.6 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
**+6 sounds ridiculous, but you are immune to Toxic and Chansey can't exactly do much besides paralyze you.

Did I mention that every time this set scores a kill, it boosts its speed one stage? :)
No, I understand all of that, thing is I assumed that Naganadel is at base value without boosts. Of course it can chunk teams with a Nasty Plot, however this is assuming you get the boost and keep it (don't get fazed out or stat reset by Haze.) Regardless, it'll be a very threatening presence early USUM.
 
#15
Alright so most of the new UB's have been discussed already so I'm just gonna briefly discuss my thoughts on UB Burst (Blacephalon).
Blacephalon is a Fire/Ghost type with Base stats 53/127/53/151/79/107
Looking at the stats you can see the amazing 151 base special attack and the above average 107 base speed.
Known Moves: Shadow Ball, Psychic, Fire blast, Trick, Calm Mind, Mind Blown.
The moves we know are pretty decent Fire/Ghost/Psychic coverage is pretty good and only resisted by some dark types in which if this pokemon gets focus blast, it will have perfect coverage. Also Mind Blown is a signature move thats is 150 base power that does half recoil to you like the move head smash.
The typing offensively is pretty good in Fire STAB and Ghost STAB but defensively the typing is weak to a lot of predominant types such as Water, Ground, etc, and Blacephalon is weak to SR's which is on most teams.

I can see a scarf or specs set doing pretty well in monotype, this pokemon having an above average base speed stat with a sky high 151 base special attack a set like this could put in some work or at least be a niche on both types.
Specs could be great sets on fire and ghost as well since gengar and infernape could be scarfed.

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick / Mind Blown
- Psychic / Mind Blown
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball

Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 520-616 (147.7 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 206-246 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 212-252 (52.4 - 62.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 232-274 (60.5 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 169-199 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 208-246 (64.3 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 175-207 (51 - 60.3%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 147-174 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 189-223 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 428-506 (107.5 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 210-248 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 192-228 (52.8 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 184-218 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 124-148 (40.7 - 48.6%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
#19
Wow, these are some really sick leaks (it's kinda disappointing that's there's no new Alolan forms though, seriously that should have been a must). Here's my thoughts:
  • The Poison/Dragon UB looks sick, that is undoubtedly going to be one of the most influential things introduced. It's nearly as fast as Greninja, great offensive typing (and highly beneficial for both types, especially Dragon). I'm very excited to play around with different sets for this.
  • The defog shenanigans are a little overdone, but defog Klefki seems fun (although probably not needed).
  • I wouldn't rule out the new electric mythical entirely. Electric, outside of Golem and Thundy, is very lacking in the physical attacker department. It could be decent, especially for giving electric a better shot against normal. The speed is no laughing matter either, it can possibly run a max attack choice band set comfortably.
  • I'm gonna 2nd Haakunite 's point, I think it's safe to give DW Necrozma a chance in the USUM meta. It's hindering initial speed and typing could make it enough to have a potential to be balanced. I can see it doing relatively well on both types.
Add-On:
  • I was amazed to see Kommo-os z move buff, that's pretty dangerous. It's essentially z-happy hour alongside a strong initial attack, I'm surprised by the underwhelming initial reaction to it. That could single handedly make fighting have a chance at being viable again this gen.
  • Lycanroc dusk (thought I'd bring it up, why not lol) is essentially a stronger lycanroc midday w/o sand rush. I don't see it getting much more usage than it's counterpart has, but, hey, could be fun to toy around with.
  • DM Necrozma is more than likely busted. Thought it would be worth addressing lol. Great defensive typing, along with solid defense stat, prism armor, and impeccable fire coverage, yea, no chance compared to DW, who can more than likely be better checked (tbh this kinda reminds me of when Kyurem B hitting ou, similar situation).
  • Ultra Necrozma.....yea, overboard city. It's kinda similar to Pheromosa imo, but much bulkier, and with better typing. It could**** be fun to at least try instead of immediately putting it on the banlist (given it's technically a mega). The fact that it needs to have a z crystal may mean something in terms of limiting it's brokenness, but despite that I don't see it lasting.
 
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#20
I’m glad you brought it up. Seeing as how Fighting is probably my favorite type in Monotype, I’ve looked at Kommo-o and have tried to make a good set for it.


Kommo-o got many additions that were obviously very good- the new Z Move boosts all of its stats by 1, and it got a new and improved movepool including the Close Combat and Drain Punch it has always wanted. However, there’s an added move that has been overlooked, and that is Stealth Rock.

I think Kommo-o obtaining Stealth Rock via move tutor is a pretty huge deal for Fighting teams. It’s going to force so many switches because of Pokémon fearing it’s Z Move, giving it so many opportunities to set them up. Not only this, but Stealth Rock on Kommo-o gives the player the opportunity to use a much better Cobalion set (bulky rocks isn’t as good as something like double dance) or not have to use Cobalion at all. Another thing to note is Kommo-o having more overall bulk than Cobalion, meaning it can live some SE hits and still either set up rocks or fire off a Z Move. Here’s the set I’ve come up with:

Kommo-o @ Kommoium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 236 Atk / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Clanging Scales
- Poison Jab
- Stealth Rock

Close Combat is an excellent STAB move that helps Kommo-o break through things after a boost that it previously couldn’t- such as Celesteela for example. The given EV spread lets Kommo-o guarantee the OHKO on Landorus-Therian with Clangorous Soublaze and a Naive nature maximizes its Speed stat. Stealth Rock is used on Pokémon coming in on Clangorous Soulblaze - like Tapu Koko for example. This set gets a coverage spot that I filled with Poison Jab in order to not get walled by Fairy types such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Fini, and Tapu Bulu. Like I said, this can give Fighting teams an extra teamslot or give Cobalion the opportunity to run a Rock Polish and Swords Dance set which is much better than the bulky SR set it currently has to run. So yeah, let me know what you think. I’ve loved this mon ever since it came out and I’m very happy it’s finally getting a buff as massive as this one.​
 
#21
I know this has been said over and over, but holy shit does Naganadel look good. While it will also be great on Poison, I'm more excited to see what it can do on Dragon. Dragon has always struggled V.S. Fairy: it's best counter measure for a while now has been Dragalge, which is, uhhh... Less than ideal aside from that role. But now here we have a Pokemon with Dragalge's type with huge Special Attack and Nasty Plot that outspeeds all of the Tapus and Mega Diancie, can set up in front of Klefki and then clean with the nigh unwallable combo of Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Sludge Wave.

Tl;dr Any Dragon user should be hyped as hell for Naganadel. I have no doubt in my mind it will be S rank for Dragon for single-handedly making Dragon's matchup against its arch nemesis infinitely more favorable.
 
#22
I’m glad you brought it up. Seeing as how Fighting is probably my favorite type in Monotype, I’ve looked at Kommo-o and have tried to make a good set for it.


Kommo-o got many additions that were obviously very good- the new Z Move boosts all of its stats by 1, and it got a new and improved movepool including the Close Combat and Drain Punch it has always wanted. However, there’s an added move that has been overlooked, and that is Stealth Rock.

I think Kommo-o obtaining Stealth Rock via move tutor is a pretty huge deal for Fighting teams. It’s going to force so many switches because of Pokémon fearing it’s Z Move, giving it so many opportunities to set them up. Not only this, but Stealth Rock on Kommo-o gives the player the opportunity to use a much better Cobalion set (bulky rocks isn’t as good as something like double dance) or not have to use Cobalion at all. Another thing to note is Kommo-o having more overall bulk than Cobalion, meaning it can live some SE hits and still either set up rocks or fire off a Z Move. Here’s the set I’ve come up with:

Kommo-o @ Kommoium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 236 Atk / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Clanging Scales
- Poison Jab
- Stealth Rock

Close Combat is an excellent STAB move that helps Kommo-o break through things after a boost that it previously couldn’t- such as Celesteela for example. The given EV spread lets Kommo-o guarantee the OHKO on Landorus-Therian with Clangorous Soublaze and a Naive nature maximizes its Speed stat. Stealth Rock is used on Pokémon coming in on Clangorous Soulblaze - like Tapu Koko for example. This set gets a coverage spot that I filled with Poison Jab in order to not get walled by Fairy types such as Tapu Koko, Tapu Fini, and Tapu Bulu. Like I said, this can give Fighting teams an extra teamslot or give Cobalion the opportunity to run a Rock Polish and Swords Dance set which is much better than the bulky SR set it currently has to run. So yeah, let me know what you think. I’ve loved this mon ever since it came out and I’m very happy it’s finally getting a buff as massive as this one.​
Lol what?
Why would u want to run Stealth Rocks on a potential sweeper? Why would u want to have to make a decision in which you either deal +1 damage or get up rocks? Would be better to round out coverage with like flamethrower/eq or something.
 
#23
Lol what?
Why would u want to run Stealth Rocks on a potential sweeper? Why would u want to have to make a decision in which you either deal +1 damage or get up rocks? Would be better to round out coverage with like flamethrower/eq or something.
Well, Poison/Fighting/Dragon has perfect coverage besides its inability to hit the irrelevant Doublade. Unless your team really needs to hit Mega Scizor, there’s no reason to run Flamethrower which can’t even kill before the boost and otherwise doesn’t hit hard since you’re running max Attack. Stealth Rock lets you not be completely passive against Fairy switchins such as Klefki, and frees up a really important moveslot for Fighting teams. Double Dance Cobalion could be run now, or teams could opt to not run it at all.
 
#24
This is it, the Ghost UB we've I've been waiting for! The things that stands out the most about this Pokemon is its base 151 attack and its piss poor bulk (worse than Gengar's) and Defenses. Although its Special Attack is good, it does face competition from its Ghost/Fire brother Alolan Marowak. I can see this Pokemon becoming hard to fit on Ghost teams, as 2 Ghost/Fires may be a little too hard to as Ghost doesn't like stacking a Stealth Rock weakness on a type that rarely carries hazard control out of Mega Sableye. Alolan Marowak will most likely be the Ghost/Fire of choice, as the best playstyle for Ghost right now is Trick Room offense. Blacephelon will have little to do with this playstyle, as its high speed will leave it vurnerable inside of Trick Room and Gengar will be the preferred revenge killer outside of Trick Room. That to be said, I can see Blacephelon going into the A/B ranks of Ghost. Here are some sets I think will be used in Monotype.
Choice Scarf
Blacephelon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Mind Blown
- Hidden Power Ice
I think this is the set that will mostly be used in Monotype, both on Fire and Ghost. Choice Scarf definitely is the best item for this Pokemon as it allows Blacephelon to be an effective revenge killer with Beast Boost. Mind Blown can be used as a nuke as the cost of half of Blacephelons HP and will be used in close situations where the damage actually matters, similarly to Hyper Beam in some situations. Shadow Ball can nail almost everything since Ghost coverage is just that great. Hidden Power Ice can be used to revenge kill things like Scarf Landorus-T, Garchomp and Dragonite. Fire Blast or Flamethrower will provide the Fire coverage Blacephelon needs to break past Steel, Grass, and Ice types.
Choice Specs
Blacephelon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Mind Blown
- Hidden Power Ice
Pretty much the Choice Scarf set but Choice Specs. Shadow Ball is the move you will be using most of the time as Ghost coverage hits a lot, as I said before. Blacephelon will be a terrifying wallbreaker with its 151 Special Attack.
Stallbreaker
Blacephelon @ Firium Z / Ghostium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Taunt
- Hidden Power Ice / Will-O-Wisp
This is also another set I will be looking forward to use in USUM. Now with Gengar almost always carrying Choice Scarf, Gengar no longer has the capacity to carry around stallbreaking sets. Taunt on BlacePhelon will be useful for breaking defensive cores such as the infamous Porygon2 / Chansey / Staraptor core. Firium / Ghostium Z could be used as a nuke to muscle pass things when you need that extra push, and can used to collect kills with Beast Boost. Will-O-Wisp can be used to punish some of Blacephelon's switchins, such as Tyranitar and Alolan Muk, and can weaken things for Mega Sableye. I can see this set putting in serious work against balanced teams, although Blacephelon is severely crippled by its dogshit defensive typing which leaves it weak to things such as Rock Slide from Cradily and Scald from Toxapex.

As you can see, Blacephelon is a Pokemon I am very excited about once Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon drop. Blacephelon will be a nice addition to both Ghost and Fire, on Ghost for its sky high Special Attack and on Fire for its unique Ghost typing and access to Taunt. Some other things I will be expecting when the games drop are Naganadel getting banned and Stealth Rock setters having a hard time because of how common Defoggers will be. Thank you for reading this post and I hope you enjoyed reading it!
 
#25
Instead of talking about one of the new things coming to USUM, I just want to give my thoughts on old things that might rise at the very beginning of the meta:



In terms of these new mons, I really do see Weavile seeing a ton of extra usage on Dark and Ice teams alike. It naturally outspeeds Naganadel, Blacephelon, and Dawn Wings Necrozma, and can revenge kill either mon with a well placed Icicle Crash or Knock Off. Having priority in Ice Shard makes it so that Naganadel at +1 is severely weakened for teammates like Bisharp, Mamoswine, or Cloyster to revenge kill, and Pursuit/Low Kick can be considered as options to trap or chunk other mons like the ones mentioned, but also for CB Victini, Statataka (whatever it's called), Ttar, Heatran and more. I may be right or wrong on this, but I believe that Weavile will become more of a viable option early USUM.



Now this thing will probably see a larger increase in popularity the beginning of USUM as well, really because of one thing: DEFOG DISTRIBUTION. Now that we know that literally every good competitive mon from Landorus and Klefki to Rotom and Hydreigon gets it, you never know what's really going to be a teams form of hazard removal. Bisharp is obviously going to be a solid pressure due to the potential Defiant boost that it may receive when the opponent Defogs. Sucker Punch is also a help with chunking or killing Naganadel, DW Necrozma and Blacephalon, and can threaten them out.



Similar to Bisharp, these mons have the potential to raise an attacking stat whenever the opponent Defogs. However, you would have to forego better abilities in Marvel Scale or Prankster. Not to say that Defiant or Competitive is bad by any means, but it depends on the mon that uses it. Other mons with this ability include Empoleon and Tornadus-I, but no one else competitively. Point being, since hazard control is everywhere now, I'd bet my money that people would use mons like these to threaten hazard removal.



Now hear me out, I think Deoxys-Defense will be utilized more throughout early USUM. Excellent defenses + Cosmic Power and Reliable Recovery make Deoxys an overall defensive menace. Sure it's not the offensive presence that would cover these new mons, but defensively speaking, it has everything it really needs to succeed. Solid speed and Taunt makes it so it can outspeed and threaten forms of setup in Toxapex, Vincune, and Scarf Naganadel, so it serves a better purpose outside of what I mentioned. I'm more or less wrong on this idea, but I think that it's something worth mentioning.
 
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